Yes, driving a 2006 with a few thousand miles should still be an accurate representaion of the van's abilities; tell the dealer your reason for wanting to test it out, and they should realize you are a serious customer and likely fulfill your request.
i wouldn't want to purchase a vehicle i've never test driven, but yeah, like the others said, who can get a good idea of the vehicle characteristics in 2-3miles? they have to have a demo unit with fairly low miles.
my spouse would have to be able to drive it.
i'd have to put my kids and their seats in it.
i would expect the rep to be completely quiet unless i asked questions, and further, to keep their hands off the controls (unless i'm about to crash or something).
no radio, DVD or other distractions.
highway, stop and go, back road, cul-de-sac turns yada yada yada.
Both Honda dealerships had a 2005 Odyssey demonstrator but neither of the 2 Toyota dealerships had a Sienna demonstrator so I test drove a used 2004 Sienna. Sadly, a salesman went with us on both test drives. :sick:
We ended up going with the Sienna for the following reasons:
1. In answer to your question the Sienna provided a much quieter ride and smoother as well.
2. The AWD in combination with the electonic stability and traction control (both standard on the AWD models) were all an overall better safety package. For those who say 2WD is adequate, maybe it is in Southern California; but in the northeast where we live and get a fair amount of snow we beleive it is worth the extra feature. When you are riding around with young children in a vehicle the more safety features the better to make up for the lack of concentration when they are all asking for something at the same time.
3. The Honda was nice but the fit and finish on the Sienna seemed like it was in a different league, very Lexus like. The seats also were more comfortable.
The AWD was the clincher. They were both nice but for us the Sienna was a nicer all around vehichle.
It amazes me how Honda refuses to address noise issues in their vehicles. Consumer Reports says road noise is apprarent in just about all of the Honda lineup.
Then why did you buy one if it is so bad? I would think if you test drove one for any length of time, you could see that the car was too loud for your tastes.
Most minivan consumers prefer a quiet car over a noisy one. I personally prefer Hondas and own two of them for various reasons. You obviusly do not care about this road noise issue so let us constructive posters discuss our opinions. I was merely stating a known fact that is published in Consumer Reports.
I never said "it is so bad" that I wouldn't buy one. Honda made improvements on the new CRV and Odyssey, but they never receive accolades for quietness. Why not beat Toyota or Hyundai in this category and earn more sales?
It amazes me how Honda refuses to address noise issues in their vehicles.
You never said "it is so bad that I wouldn't buy one" true enough, but you ceratinly seem disenchanted with Honda. I was just curious why you wouldn't pick a quieter car if the car seemed too loud for you.
Personally, I find the cars Honda puts out perfectly acceptable in terms of noise, and my aunt's Odyssey is certainly no louder than the Lexus GX470 my girlfriend's mother drives (which has a 3rd row rattle worth writing home about, quite surprisingly - less than 50k miles on it too)...
Personally, I find the cars Honda puts out perfectly acceptable in terms of noise, and my aunt's Odyssey is certainly no louder than the Lexus GX470 my girlfriend's mother drives
Like I said before, you are the exception and not the norm. Most people, including Consumer Reports say that Honda's road noise is quite apparent.
I know that Honda isn't one of the quietest cars on the road, but I certainly don't think that the noise levels are too bad to consider buying a different type of car.
That's like of like something I've read on the midsize sedan board, saying that the Fusion is underpowered...when in fact it is quite fast (7.2 sec to 60). It's just that compared to a Camry V6, it is "not fast enough" by some people's standards. Some people apparently want to merge at 130 MPH by the top of an onramp, and by the same token, some people would rather their cars be as silent as possible.
Buying a Honda, to me, means that I value the sporty driving characteristics over isolation (Toyota). With sport, comes the ability to hear what the car is doing (although it isn't LOUD). If you think the 2006-7 Accord is loud, I should take you for a ride in my 1996 Accord; it has no mechanical problems, it is just much louder than any Honda of today.
In the end, I see your point, but I certainly don't fault Honda for being more noisy, because frankly, if I wanted to be really isolated, I'd have kept the Camry I looked at.
"2. The AWD in combination with the electonic stability and traction control (both standard on the AWD models) were all an overall better safety package. For those who say 2WD is adequate, maybe it is in Southern California; but in the northeast where we live and get a fair amount of snow we beleive it is worth the extra feature. When you are riding around with young children in a vehicle the more safety features the better to make up for the lack of concentration when they are all asking for something at the same time."
Of course, neither AWD nor traction control do anything to help your snow/ice braking at all. For that, you need snow tires. While AWD/TC may help you keep from getting stuck in very severe conditions, it is stability control that is going to keep you safe if you lose control when the children are distracting you. Now if either Honda or Toyota had a significantly better stability control system, that might be of interest for safety reasons.
We get snow in the Chicago area, too. I've never had a single problem getting stuck with any of the 2WD vehicles I've owned. I'll admit my wife's Subaru Outback (AWD with limited slip in the rear) can get going a bit quicker from stops when it is slippery, but that's about it. Now if we ever went offroad, lived in a rural area or frequently drove unplowed/hilly roads, I'd definitely consider AWD or snow tires, maybe both. Otherwise, I wouldn't consider AWD anything more than a nice bonus if I otherwise preferred that vehicle and didn't mind the hit in fuel economy.
In the Odyssey's favor for its safety package are side curtain airbags with rollover protection and sensors for all three rows of seating. In addition, the consensus of most direct comparisons is somewhat better emergency handling and braking. Sure, we might get stuck in a snowstorm someday, but we've got cellphones and AAA to take care of that.
I will agree that the Sienna is quieter on the highway and smoother all around. The smoother ride is presumably part of the tradeoff for the road feel and handling edge for the Odyssey.
"i must be the exception as well because the road "noise" provides me situational awareness that helps me as a driver. i expect it and want it."
Perhaps it's the tires more than the van itself, but the road noise on most concrete at highway speeds continues to be my only major complaint about the Odyssey. I would really rather not be so aware of the loud droning noise that muffles out the stereo and most conversation to the back seats. It really hasn't improved much if at all from our 2001 Odyssey. It's not so bad as to be a distraction, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
"By the way the Sienna came with side curtain airbags in all three rows."
As is true for most current minivans. On the other hand, some lack a rollover deployment system like the one in the Odyssey. It's odd Toyota didn't make this available in the Sienna for 2004-2006 (not sure about 2007), since I believe it is standard in all their SUVs. Honda claims the Odyssey was the only minivan to have curtain airbag deployment sensors in each of the three rows of seating, at least for 2006.
Probably not a big advantage, to be sure, but it is a difference.
"As is true for most current minivans. On the other hand, some lack a rollover deployment system like the one in the Odyssey. It's odd Toyota didn't make this available in the Sienna for 2004-2006 (not sure about 2007), since I believe it is standard in all their SUVs. Honda claims the Odyssey was the only minivan to have curtain airbag deployment sensors in each of the three rows of seating, at least for 2006."
Looks like false advertising on Hondas part the snipet below was taken off Toyotas website.
ll the airbag (AB) systems are Supplemental Restraint Systems. All ABs (if installed) are designed to inflate only under certain conditions and in certain types of severe collisions: frontal and knee ABs typically inflate in frontal collisions; side and side curtain ABs in side collisions; Roll-Sensing Curtain ABs at a severe tilt degree, roll or lateral G-force. In all other accidents, the ABs will not inflate. To decrease the risk of injury from an inflating AB, always wear seatbelts, sit upright in the middle of the seat as far back as possible and do not lean against the door. Do not put objects in front of an AB or around the seatback. Do not use a rearward-facing child seat in any front passenger seat. The force of an inflating AB may cause serious injury or death. See your Owner's Manual for further information/warnings.
"By the way the Sienna came with side curtain airbags in all three rows."
Our Ody Touring comes with an additional first row right side airbag... when we take my mother-in-law along (bada-bing!).
AWD in a minivan would come in handy up North but I hope siennamikey didn't get those wonderful Dunlop runflats too (cough). If so, my sympathies if you thought Michelin PAX were bad.
it's both. i think the tread design is a contributor to noise and the changing road surface helps illustrate that point.
if you're on a paved road, i presume it is quieter than when on concrete. and... i'm willing to bet concrete is in general quieter than concrete or asfalt (sp?) with intentional grooving - either to warn you of running off the shoulder, or to limit hydroplaining.
if you change tires, you will change the road noise you experience.
if you change tire inflation pressure, i bet that will have an impact as well.
now then, i'm thinking though that it's the coupling between the tires and the van is what contributes to the loudness of the noise one hears in the vehicle produced by the tire tread and road surface. and i think that is due to the type of suspension design utilized in the accord and odyssey.
i don't think honda produces noisy cars myself. as i mentioned, i LIKE feedback of road surface conditions. however, i think the very thing i like about the vehicle in terms of driving dynamics (ala suspension and steering setup) also contributes to coupling more of that sound from the tires to the vehicle body.
it's possible in otherwords to deaden some of the sound by changing the resonance properties of the van body, but i think a good amount of what people call noisyness is attributable to the suspension setup.
i could be wrong about it - but i think what hondas are known for - driving dynamics and road noise go sorta hand in hand to some extent.
myself, i've never known or owned a vehicle with good dynamics (as i expect them to be) to be overly quiet.
Actually, it's the other way around. It is much quieter when driving over asphalt than concrete. Especially, when it is aphalt rubberized hot mix. However, aphalt's life span is much shorter than concrete.
"Looks like false advertising on Hondas part the snipet below was taken off Toyotas website."
It took me a while to find your snippet on the Toyota site. That snippet is a legal disclaimer from a footnote for any airbag equipped model, not a validation of specific airbag types or features. The "(if installed)" and separate listing of both side curtain ABs and Roll-Sensing Curtain ABs are indicative of this.
Compare the Sienna feature list online or in the printed brochure with any of their SUVs. The Toyota SUVs will specifically say they have roll-sensing side curtain airbags (RSCA) as well as their "STAR" safety system package, standard even in the base RAV4. The Sienna, like the Toyota cars, only lists standard side curtain airbags and does not get the STAR package (presumably because some features like stability control are optional on some trim levels for 2006).
Maybe it's marketing, maybe it's an undisclosed feature, maybe it will be added for 2007, but it's not on the 2004-2006 models based on any of their brochures or specifications. Now if your owner's manual specifically says you have RSCA, then the brochures really need an update. I'm sure Toyota will market such an update on the Sienna by including it in all their press releases and specifications, as they do for their SUVs.
In any case, here is an excerpt from the 2006 Odyssey press release:
"In keeping with Honda's industry-leading "Safety for Everyone" initiative, all Odyssey models come equipped with a comprehensive list of advanced safety features including anti-lock brakes; Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with Traction Control; front side airbags with an Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS); side curtain airbag protection (with rollover sensor) for all three rows; and dual-stage, dual-threshold driver's and front passenger's airbags. In addition, the Odyssey is the only minivan to come equipped with dedicated side impact sensors for all three rows and the only minivan to offer a rollover sensor that deploys the side curtain air bags in the event of a rollover. The Odyssey also incorporates Honda's exclusive Advanced Compatibility Engineering(TM) (ACE(TM)) body structure that provides enhanced occupant protection in a frontal collision."
I do know that Ford has their Safety Canopy system from their SUVs as available in some trims of the Freestar. That also has a rollover deployment feature. So, perhaps you are right that there is a bit of false advertising, or maybe they meant to say the only minivan with these features standard at press time, I don't know. If the Sienna or other minivans have these features, that's great. If so, they should certainly promote them more and make them standard on all trim levels.
perhaps i didn't word my post correctly. i think we are in agreement.
in my experience, the surfaces causing tires to sing (from most to least) starts with asphalt later machined with ridges to help you to wake up since you're drifting towards the guard rails.
then comes cement with grooving to avoid hydroplaining. this also tends to make lighter cars drift a bit and track the groves,
then there's concrete,
and most quiet is asphalt.
somewhere in the mix is the metal grating used on some bridges which you can see through down to the water. yikes!
Road noise, in addition to making one situationally aware, is also a useful way of monitoring tire pressure/condition if you are attuned to it. However, this is a case where more is definitely not better, but some is definitely useful to many drivers.
When Toyota started offering a $ 1,500 rebate my 2006 Sienna LE depreciated by that amount. BUY the Odyssey for the lowest depreciation since Honda does not resort to rebates to sell Odysseys :shades: .
hypnosis44, exactly my point. thanks for making it so eloquently.
jipster - agreed, too much, not good.
i have been in vehicles where engine noise dominated, or where it was very quiet overall. both situations were unacceptable to me as driver.
there's no mental trickery going on. i suppose it's how i learned to drive and my experiences driving for decades that influences my preferences. :shades:
Yeah that's one thing that bugged me when I was about to buy the Sienna. I knew the rebates would start the next month and they did, though it was only $500 at first.
Granted, prices on the Odyssey slid, too. Mine was an awesome deal at $300 below invoice when I bought it just over a year ago, but it was only a few months before people started reporting deals $1000 or more below invoice. Though Honda never does consumer rebates, I think there was a factory-to-dealer incentive this summer and they do offer lease/financing deals sometimes.
Yes, I don't know what the amount was for the Odyssey, but at the end of the 2006 model year (Aug - Sept) Honda was offering $750 factory-to-dealer cash on Accord Sedans, and $1,000 f-2-d cash on Accord coupes. Likely something similar offered to dealers on Odysseys and Pilots, I'd guess.
I had a new 2005 Honda EX-L RES and after a year of constant problems and annoying rattles I gave up and traded it in for a flawless loaded 2006 Sienna LTD and amazingly all my issues went away... staying faaaaaaaaar away from HONDA for ever and ever...
What kind of problems did you have with your Odyssey?
My '06 has two problems - unresolved droning noise at 2000 rpm & engine vibration in drive when stopped.
The only other complaint I have is the road noise - could be a little quieter.
I test drove the Sienna and the engine was noisy also. Ultimately, the price with all features & interior styling drove me to the Osyssey. The Sienna was at least $3-4k more.
I did look at my owners manual. You were right it sepcifically states that the side curtain air bags would only go off in a severe side impact. No mention of the rollover sensor.
Here are a few issues of the 2005 Honda Odyssey besides the A/C unit blowing hot air occasionally (boy am I glad I got rid of it ASAP)...:
• front and rear bumper is out of alignment • sliding door track cover improperly installed and misaligned • rattle in right side passenger door • DVD earphones intermittent reception and play static • top and bottom steering column covers (need to be replaced) • rear windshield wiper switch (already replaced) • dings on the dashboard • repaired a number of issues myself (hood blanket, weather stripping, etc.)
The rattling and clanking noise has gotten worse. Now, it not only makes a loud noise when we go over moderate bumps and imperfections in the road, it happens when we drive over small imperfections in the road as well. It is extremely annoying and very frustrating to have paid so much for a vehicle and have it sound like a clunker!!! In addition to this, we have had the car in the shop for a multitude of other issues ranging from DVD malfunctions (3 attempts to repair), body misalignment, missing parts, misassembled parts, and the list goes on Whatever happened to quality control???
The fact is Toyota quality is far superior than Honda as I have many years of experience with new cars and have bought Nissans/Hondas and again nothing compares to Toyota quality...
There were virtually NO new 2006 Odyssey's on dealer lots in the Salt Lake City, UT metropolitan area when the 2007 Odysseys started arriving. :shades: Honda dealers here rarely offer special deals on Odysseys although my nephew got a big discount of over $ 3,000 on a NEW 2005 Odyssey on November 30, 2004. I later asked a salesman about it and he said that was a very slow month for their dealership.
Hmm. I guess they sold quicker than the Accords did. It makes sense, after all, because the Accord is going on its last (fifth) year of the current incarnation making it worth a little less, while the Odyssey is only on year three.
BUT Honda has not bragged about giving Customer Cash to sell a Honda while Toyota has been having full page newspaper ads plus an additional color insert every day trying to get rid of 2006 Siennas, Sequoias, 4 Runners, and Highlanders. There is $1,500 Customer Cash on the Sienna. I knew that DaimlerChrysler always had Customer Cash and/or rebates on DC minivans but Toyota has blindsided me making the purchase of my 2006 Sienna even more painful. :sick:
Toyota has had customer rebates on the Sienna in our region (Chicago) for many years. They usually start around Nov/Dec at $500 and slowly increase as the model year goes by, up to $1500 on some trims by model year end. It does vary by region, though.
blackexv6, could you describe a bit detail of the engine vibration problem you have? I am experiencing similar problem: 1. engine vibrates and hums in drive when come to a stop. the vibration can be felt in steering wheel, shift knob, and break paddle 2. the vibration is worse if no light and no AC on 3. put the shift to N quiets down the engine. Put the shift back to D, still quite 4. turn on th light or use the power window also quiets down the engine
I have the A-pipe and rear motor mount replaced but the problem is still there. I am frustrated with this van (05EXL-RES) :sick:
Your vibration issues are the same that my car is experiencing. Also had the A-pipe & mounts replaced...no luck. Join the frustration club - we paid too much money for this van to have these type of mechanical problems.
i don't know much about your vehicle but to me it sounds like an engine mount and possibly a poor idle adjustment (perhaps both). i would think if you change the gear to N or R and back to D, you're moving the engine some, and turning on lights or using the power windows, perhaps that plays with the idle speed.
you might even have a bad transmission mount or exhaust system issue.
if it were me, i'd go to a different dealer or even an independant who knows more about sleuthing vibrations at idle.
I had a 2005 Sienna XLE AWD Limited with every option imaginable and replaced it with a 2006 Odyssey Limited. My opinion is that the Honda has far better fit and finish over the Toyota and is a much nicer vehicle with far more interior space for the kids.
I also found it interersting that the Honda listed at $39K and the Toyota listed at over $42K. The Honda is also a far better value too!
The web and this forum is full of opinions and this is only me verbalizing mine.
I'm guessing you mean Odyssey "Touring?" There is currently no Odyssey "Limited;" I think ya just got your Toyota lingo mixed with your Honda lingo, no biggie .
Curious if you or anyone else has an opinion on the fact that the Honda doesn't offer an AWD version, and the Toyota does. Driving an XC70 right now, and it handles amazingly well in horrid weather (but unfortunately won't fit three car seats-we have a 16month old, and are expecting twins in March)
I would imagine that the demand is not great enough (in Honda's eyes anyway) for investment in that type of drivetrain for the Odyssey. It would likely be feasible for Honda to use the SH-AWD drivetrain from the Acura RL (because it uses the same basic 3.5L engine in that car), but it probably wouldn't be a big seller, especially since the Pilot SUV seats 8 as well, and gives a tougher look than a minivan (some people can't get past that soccer-mom stigma).
DaimlerChrysler recently stopped producing AWD vans (because they needed room under the floor for stow-and-go). Most people who need to seat 6 or more get a large SUV (unfortuantely).
May I ask what climate you live in? If it's not snowy, you likely don't need AWD, and a front-wheel drive van with Stability Control would be plenty safe for you and your family, as well as more economical. If not, check out the Sienna AWD. The only downsides for that are the relatively high price and low availability of Sienna AWDs, and the lowered fuel economy (something like 17/23 I believe, vs. 19/27).
I bought the Sienna ONLY because it was the only minivan with an AWD option. I surprised my wife thinking she's be tickled pink...wrong I, personally liked the van but the wife who is the primary driver did not. Much more cramped than the Honda and I found the fit and finish to be far less than that of the Honda. The Honda also drives more like a sports car. Tighter steering and a much better feel and the accelleration is far better that the Sienna too. The Sienna drives more like a luxury car and floats along the road like a Caddy. If you like the luxury ride side of the fense, you'll like the Toyota. If you like a vehicle that handles and drives more like a sports car, you'll like the Honda. I feel safer driving the Honda as its easirer to control and feels tighter under adverse driving conditions. As far as fit and finish, look at where the bumper meets the quarter panels on the Toyota and then look at the Odyssey. BIG difference there and other locations throughout the vehicle. Looked at every Sienna on the lot and they were all the same and the dealer agreed and stated that's the way they are made.
Don't get me wrong, the Toyota was a great vehicle and the only problem was with the run flats that have a TSB on them. Dealer replaced them at 16K miles due to uneven wear. After having both now, I can clearly see why the Honda is rated number 1 in every minivan test recently performed and dating back to 2005. Even the new Hyundai Entourage / Kia Sedona came out ahead which I found surprising but they have come a long way. I think we can all agree too that Toyota is having its share of QC related problems, based on recent press, across the board and may be growing to quick for their own good.
You are correct in that CR has stated it to have "average" reliability against the Sienna's "above average". However, every test of the minivans on the market today by all of the leading car publications and web applications show the Odyssey to be ranked NUMBER ONE over all.
I have owned both...a 2005 Limited XLE AWD (17,000 miles)that I just sold to a friend at work not long ago and replaced it with a 2006 Odyssey Touring loaded with NAV and DVD. My personal opinion is that the Sienna is an inferior vehicle to that of the Odyssey and has less interior room as well. Obviously, if you NEED AWD, you have no other option but the Sienna.
In the end, it is all about what you are looking for in a van. As I stated in an earlier post, the Sienna is the Lexus of minivans and rides smooth (kind of floats over the road) with more steering wheel play than I would like. Kind of like my Dad's old Caddy.
The Odyssey has a far more sportier ride with very tight steering and far better accelleration. Rides a little rougher and firmer (like a sports car would) but you feel like you have far more control over the vehicle in turns and higher speeds on the highway.
If you are like my Dad, get the Sienna. If you are young, vibrant and like a sporty feel, get the Odyssey
I had nothing but issues with a 2005 Honda Odyssey for over a year and amazingly when I got rid of it and traded it in with a loaded 2006 Sienna LTD all my issues disappeared (was on of my happiest days)... staying far away from HONDAs for ever and ever... my point Honda DOES NOT even come close to the superiority/quality of TOYOTA
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my spouse would have to be able to drive it.
i'd have to put my kids and their seats in it.
i would expect the rep to be completely quiet unless i asked questions, and further, to keep their hands off the controls (unless i'm about to crash or something).
no radio, DVD or other distractions.
highway, stop and go, back road, cul-de-sac turns yada yada yada.
Sadly, a salesman went with us on both test drives. :sick:
1. In answer to your question the Sienna provided a much quieter ride and smoother as well.
2. The AWD in combination with the electonic stability and traction control (both standard on the AWD models) were all an overall better safety package. For those who say 2WD is adequate, maybe it is in Southern California; but in the northeast where we live and get a fair amount of snow we beleive it is worth the extra feature. When you are riding around with young children in a vehicle the more safety features the better to make up for the lack of concentration when they are all asking for something at the same time.
3. The Honda was nice but the fit and finish on the Sienna seemed like it was in a different league, very Lexus like. The seats also were more comfortable.
The AWD was the clincher. They were both nice but for us the Sienna was a nicer all around vehichle.
I never said "it is so bad" that I wouldn't buy one. Honda made improvements on the new CRV and Odyssey, but they never receive accolades for quietness. Why not beat Toyota or Hyundai in this category and earn more sales?
You never said "it is so bad that I wouldn't buy one" true enough, but you ceratinly seem disenchanted with Honda. I was just curious why you wouldn't pick a quieter car if the car seemed too loud for you.
Personally, I find the cars Honda puts out perfectly acceptable in terms of noise, and my aunt's Odyssey is certainly no louder than the Lexus GX470 my girlfriend's mother drives (which has a 3rd row rattle worth writing home about, quite surprisingly - less than 50k miles on it too)...
Like I said before, you are the exception and not the norm. Most people, including Consumer Reports say that Honda's road noise is quite apparent.
That's like of like something I've read on the midsize sedan board, saying that the Fusion is underpowered...when in fact it is quite fast (7.2 sec to 60). It's just that compared to a Camry V6, it is "not fast enough" by some people's standards. Some people apparently want to merge at 130 MPH by the top of an onramp, and by the same token, some people would rather their cars be as silent as possible.
Buying a Honda, to me, means that I value the sporty driving characteristics over isolation (Toyota). With sport, comes the ability to hear what the car is doing (although it isn't LOUD). If you think the 2006-7 Accord is loud, I should take you for a ride in my 1996 Accord; it has no mechanical problems, it is just much louder than any Honda of today.
In the end, I see your point, but I certainly don't fault Honda for being more noisy, because frankly, if I wanted to be really isolated, I'd have kept the Camry I looked at.
Of course, neither AWD nor traction control do anything to help your snow/ice braking at all. For that, you need snow tires. While AWD/TC may help you keep from getting stuck in very severe conditions, it is stability control that is going to keep you safe if you lose control when the children are distracting you. Now if either Honda or Toyota had a significantly better stability control system, that might be of interest for safety reasons.
We get snow in the Chicago area, too. I've never had a single problem getting stuck with any of the 2WD vehicles I've owned. I'll admit my wife's Subaru Outback (AWD with limited slip in the rear) can get going a bit quicker from stops when it is slippery, but that's about it. Now if we ever went offroad, lived in a rural area or frequently drove unplowed/hilly roads, I'd definitely consider AWD or snow tires, maybe both. Otherwise, I wouldn't consider AWD anything more than a nice bonus if I otherwise preferred that vehicle and didn't mind the hit in fuel economy.
In the Odyssey's favor for its safety package are side curtain airbags with rollover protection and sensors for all three rows of seating. In addition, the consensus of most direct comparisons is somewhat better emergency handling and braking. Sure, we might get stuck in a snowstorm someday, but we've got cellphones and AAA to take care of that.
I will agree that the Sienna is quieter on the highway and smoother all around. The smoother ride is presumably part of the tradeoff for the road feel and handling edge for the Odyssey.
Perhaps it's the tires more than the van itself, but the road noise on most concrete at highway speeds continues to be my only major complaint about the Odyssey. I would really rather not be so aware of the loud droning noise that muffles out the stereo and most conversation to the back seats. It really hasn't improved much if at all from our 2001 Odyssey. It's not so bad as to be a distraction, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
As is true for most current minivans. On the other hand, some lack a rollover deployment system like the one in the Odyssey. It's odd Toyota didn't make this available in the Sienna for 2004-2006 (not sure about 2007), since I believe it is standard in all their SUVs. Honda claims the Odyssey was the only minivan to have curtain airbag deployment sensors in each of the three rows of seating, at least for 2006.
Probably not a big advantage, to be sure, but it is a difference.
Looks like false advertising on Hondas part the snipet below was taken off Toyotas website.
ll the airbag (AB) systems are Supplemental Restraint Systems. All ABs (if installed) are designed to inflate only under certain conditions and in certain types of severe collisions: frontal and knee ABs typically inflate in frontal collisions; side and side curtain ABs in side collisions; Roll-Sensing Curtain ABs at a severe tilt degree, roll or lateral G-force. In all other accidents, the ABs will not inflate. To decrease the risk of injury from an inflating AB, always wear seatbelts, sit upright in the middle of the seat as far back as possible and do not lean against the door. Do not put objects in front of an AB or around the seatback. Do not use a rearward-facing child seat in any front passenger seat. The force of an inflating AB may cause serious injury or death. See your Owner's Manual for further information/warnings.
Our Ody Touring comes with an additional first row right side airbag... when we take my mother-in-law along (bada-bing!).
AWD in a minivan would come in handy up North but I hope siennamikey didn't get those wonderful Dunlop runflats too (cough). If so, my sympathies if you thought Michelin PAX were bad.
if you're on a paved road, i presume it is quieter than when on concrete. and... i'm willing to bet concrete is in general quieter than concrete or asfalt (sp?) with intentional grooving - either to warn you of running off the shoulder, or to limit hydroplaining.
if you change tires, you will change the road noise you experience.
if you change tire inflation pressure, i bet that will have an impact as well.
now then, i'm thinking though that it's the coupling between the tires and the van is what contributes to the loudness of the noise one hears in the vehicle produced by the tire tread and road surface. and i think that is due to the type of suspension design utilized in the accord and odyssey.
i don't think honda produces noisy cars myself. as i mentioned, i LIKE feedback of road surface conditions. however, i think the very thing i like about the vehicle in terms of driving dynamics (ala suspension and steering setup) also contributes to coupling more of that sound from the tires to the vehicle body.
it's possible in otherwords to deaden some of the sound by changing the resonance properties of the van body, but i think a good amount of what people call noisyness is attributable to the suspension setup.
i could be wrong about it - but i think what hondas are known for - driving dynamics and road noise go sorta hand in hand to some extent.
myself, i've never known or owned a vehicle with good dynamics (as i expect them to be) to be overly quiet.
It took me a while to find your snippet on the Toyota site. That snippet is a legal disclaimer from a footnote for any airbag equipped model, not a validation of specific airbag types or features. The "(if installed)" and separate listing of both side curtain ABs and Roll-Sensing Curtain ABs are indicative of this.
Compare the Sienna feature list online or in the printed brochure with any of their SUVs. The Toyota SUVs will specifically say they have roll-sensing side curtain airbags (RSCA) as well as their "STAR" safety system package, standard even in the base RAV4. The Sienna, like the Toyota cars, only lists standard side curtain airbags and does not get the STAR package (presumably because some features like stability control are optional on some trim levels for 2006).
Maybe it's marketing, maybe it's an undisclosed feature, maybe it will be added for 2007, but it's not on the 2004-2006 models based on any of their brochures or specifications. Now if your owner's manual specifically says you have RSCA, then the brochures really need an update. I'm sure Toyota will market such an update on the Sienna by including it in all their press releases and specifications, as they do for their SUVs.
In any case, here is an excerpt from the 2006 Odyssey press release:
"In keeping with Honda's industry-leading "Safety for Everyone" initiative, all Odyssey models come equipped with a comprehensive list of advanced safety features including anti-lock brakes; Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with Traction Control; front side airbags with an Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS); side curtain airbag protection (with rollover sensor) for all three rows; and dual-stage, dual-threshold driver's and front passenger's airbags. In addition, the Odyssey is the only minivan to come equipped with dedicated side impact sensors for all three rows and the only minivan to offer a rollover sensor that deploys the side curtain air bags in the event of a rollover. The Odyssey also incorporates Honda's exclusive Advanced Compatibility Engineering(TM) (ACE(TM)) body structure that provides enhanced occupant protection in a frontal collision."
I do know that Ford has their Safety Canopy system from their SUVs as available in some trims of the Freestar. That also has a rollover deployment feature. So, perhaps you are right that there is a bit of false advertising, or maybe they meant to say the only minivan with these features standard at press time, I don't know. If the Sienna or other minivans have these features, that's great. If so, they should certainly promote them more and make them standard on all trim levels.
in my experience, the surfaces causing tires to sing (from most to least) starts with asphalt later machined with ridges to help you to wake up since you're drifting towards the guard rails.
then comes cement with grooving to avoid hydroplaining. this also tends to make lighter cars drift a bit and track the groves,
then there's concrete,
and most quiet is asphalt.
somewhere in the mix is the metal grating used on some bridges which you can see through down to the water. yikes!
LOL... I guess that's a positive way of thinking about road noise.
BUY the Odyssey for the lowest depreciation since Honda does not resort to rebates to sell Odysseys :shades: .
jipster - agreed, too much, not good.
i have been in vehicles where engine noise dominated, or where it was very quiet overall. both situations were unacceptable to me as driver.
there's no mental trickery going on. i suppose it's how i learned to drive and my experiences driving for decades that influences my preferences. :shades:
Granted, prices on the Odyssey slid, too. Mine was an awesome deal at $300 below invoice when I bought it just over a year ago, but it was only a few months before people started reporting deals $1000 or more below invoice. Though Honda never does consumer rebates, I think there was a factory-to-dealer incentive this summer and they do offer lease/financing deals sometimes.
My '06 has two problems - unresolved droning noise at 2000 rpm & engine vibration in drive when stopped.
The only other complaint I have is the road noise - could be a little quieter.
I test drove the Sienna and the engine was noisy also. Ultimately, the price with all features & interior styling drove me to the Osyssey. The Sienna was at least $3-4k more.
• front and rear bumper is out of alignment
• sliding door track cover improperly installed and misaligned
• rattle in right side passenger door
• DVD earphones intermittent reception and play static
• top and bottom steering column covers (need to be replaced)
• rear windshield wiper switch (already replaced)
• dings on the dashboard
• repaired a number of issues myself (hood blanket, weather stripping, etc.)
The rattling and clanking noise has gotten worse. Now, it not only makes a loud noise when we go over moderate bumps and imperfections in the road, it happens when we drive over small imperfections in the road as well. It is extremely annoying and very frustrating to have paid so much for a vehicle and have it sound like a clunker!!! In addition to this, we have had the car in the shop for a multitude of other issues ranging from DVD malfunctions (3 attempts to repair), body misalignment, missing parts, misassembled parts, and the list goes on Whatever happened to quality control???
The fact is Toyota quality is far superior than Honda as I have many years of experience with new cars and have bought Nissans/Hondas and again nothing compares to Toyota quality...
Honda dealers here rarely offer special deals on Odysseys although my nephew got a big discount of over $ 3,000 on a NEW 2005 Odyssey on November 30, 2004. I later asked a salesman about it and he said that was a very slow month for their dealership.
There is $1,500 Customer Cash on the Sienna. I knew that DaimlerChrysler always had Customer Cash and/or rebates on DC minivans but Toyota has blindsided me making the purchase of my 2006 Sienna even more painful. :sick:
could you describe a bit detail of the engine vibration problem you have? I am experiencing similar problem:
1. engine vibrates and hums in drive when come to a stop. the vibration can be felt in steering wheel, shift knob, and break paddle
2. the vibration is worse if no light and no AC on
3. put the shift to N quiets down the engine. Put the shift back to D, still quite
4. turn on th light or use the power window also quiets down the engine
I have the A-pipe and rear motor mount replaced but the problem is still there. I am frustrated with this van (05EXL-RES) :sick:
you might even have a bad transmission mount or exhaust system issue.
if it were me, i'd go to a different dealer or even an independant who knows more about sleuthing vibrations at idle.
I also found it interersting that the Honda listed at $39K and the Toyota listed at over $42K. The Honda is also a far better value too!
The web and this forum is full of opinions and this is only me verbalizing mine.
Both vans come loaded like a luxo-cruiser!
DaimlerChrysler recently stopped producing AWD vans (because they needed room under the floor for stow-and-go). Most people who need to seat 6 or more get a large SUV (unfortuantely).
May I ask what climate you live in? If it's not snowy, you likely don't need AWD, and a front-wheel drive van with Stability Control would be plenty safe for you and your family, as well as more economical. If not, check out the Sienna AWD. The only downsides for that are the relatively high price and low availability of Sienna AWDs, and the lowered fuel economy (something like 17/23 I believe, vs. 19/27).
Don't get me wrong, the Toyota was a great vehicle and the only problem was with the run flats that have a TSB on them. Dealer replaced them at 16K miles due to uneven wear. After having both now, I can clearly see why the Honda is rated number 1 in every minivan test recently performed and dating back to 2005. Even the new Hyundai Entourage / Kia Sedona came out ahead which I found surprising but they have come a long way. I think we can all agree too that Toyota is having its share of QC related problems, based on recent press, across the board and may be growing to quick for their own good.
Is the Honda Odyssey still the MOST Recommended by CR and Edmunds? :shades:
I have owned both...a 2005 Limited XLE AWD (17,000 miles)that I just sold to a friend at work not long ago and replaced it with a 2006 Odyssey Touring loaded with NAV and DVD. My personal opinion is that the Sienna is an inferior vehicle to that of the Odyssey and has less interior room as well. Obviously, if you NEED AWD, you have no other option but the Sienna.
In the end, it is all about what you are looking for in a van. As I stated in an earlier post, the Sienna is the Lexus of minivans and rides smooth (kind of floats over the road) with more steering wheel play than I would like. Kind of like my Dad's old Caddy.
The Odyssey has a far more sportier ride with very tight steering and far better accelleration. Rides a little rougher and firmer (like a sports car would) but you feel like you have far more control over the vehicle in turns and higher speeds on the highway.
If you are like my Dad, get the Sienna. If you are young, vibrant and like a sporty feel, get the Odyssey
Honda Odysseyfor over a year and amazingly when I got rid of it and traded it in with a loaded 2006 Sienna LTD all my issues disappeared (was on of my happiest days)... staying far away from HONDAs for ever and ever... my pointHondaDOES NOT even come close to the superiority/quality of TOYOTA