I have a Honda GX 2003 with a extra 4 gal tank. I should have about 12 gal capacity. i know that you can't get a full 12 gal at fill up, but I think I should get at least 10 gal. The most I can fill to is 6.7 gal and thats with the gauge below the red bar. Do I have more fuel then is indicated by gauge.
6.7 gge is a typical fill up from almost empty @ 3600-4000 at 70 deg. f.,with the single factory tank (low fuel lite on and driven about 40 miles more.
The most I ever got was 7.2 gge on a fast fill. Bone dry empty, towed into the station.
Sounds like you have a closed manual valve or stuck check valve in the system.
Did you buy the vehicle used with the extra tank ?, or have it installed by a shop. Prob. time to have the shop who installed it have a look at the problem.
The factory recommendation assumes you have a wet and oily gas supply as happens with oil-filled compressors, cold temperatures and/or private gas wells. If your gas is clean and dry like my utility supplies in Southern California and you're using an oilless compressor at home, you don't need to change them nearly that often.
I changed mine at 100k on one GX. They came out awfully clean. I plan to change the filters on the other one at 100k although I probably don't need to.
Hi, I'm interested in prices paid and contact information for places that you are familiar with for adding an extra tank(s) to Civic GX's. Also curious, does anyoone know if it affects the factory warranty in any way? I have a few quotes, but they are all above $2500....more than I want to spend. Thanks, Adrian
Sign up as a member on cngchat.com . It's free , just like this forum is.
Then send a pm to a member called adea. I think his name is Gary.
He had an extra tank installed in AZ. for far less. I personally would not recommend doing it , but adea and many others have , and report no problems.
I'm thinking of replacing a 94 Mitz (150k) with a 2008 GX. I checked with Aquila (gas co) and got "A what? Runs on What? Who's Phil?" - Checked the DMV - on hold for 10 min before "Hmmm, seems there is a category for NG - should register ok (we hope)". Talked to one of the dealers - "No, none in stock. Would have to check with management to see it they would/could special order one in."
So, here's the question(s): If I got a GX (I like the tea green) that would make how many of us in the COS area? 2? 3? Do you think I could get one local or would I have to order one from Calif and have it shipped? Thoughts on convincing "She who must be obeyed". (who was researching 'commitment papers' the other day).
If you really want one, Call Vince Strand at DCH Gardena Honda in Gardena California. He has one in Tea green on the lot now. Tell him J.L. with the white 01 GX in for service on monday sent you.
Shipping should be about $600 if you shop around.
The only problem to think about , is a Honda CNG certified tech, if an issue with warranty service on the fuel system comes up.
I just had an city employee say "Oh, no!!! Stay away from a CNG car. They do not do well at 6000 ft. Very poor mileage, parts wear out quickly ....". True? He's FOS! What?
I drive my Civic GX all over Utah at high altitudes with no problems whatsoever. It is the cold that can sometimes be a problem with natural gas vehicles. At zero Fahrenheit it takes extra cranking to start and Honda states that you should not fast-fill below -4F or risk damaging the fueling system (slow filling using Phill or a Fuelmaker FM4, FM-Q2-36 etc. is fine).
I'm looking to get a New 2008 Civic GX for my wife I would like to see if I can find out some more info.
1. Is the cost of upkeep greater on the Civic GX over any other new Civic?
2.Cost of driving? Looking in the catalog I picked up for the honda dealer they are showing the MPG as 24/36
3. Home refill or useing fuel centers? The PHILL unit looks to cost alot plus it needs to be Remade each 3000 to 5000 hours of use? do you end up saving alot of money just useing fuel center?
4. We live in So.Cal. will the be making/opening more fuel centers as time gose on?
5.Resale the honda salesman told use that the resale on this car is very bad not like say a Civic LX ?
If we were to buy one in the next 4 to 6 weeks would there be any tax savings offers?
My wife drives about 100 miles round trip each day to work here in So.Cal.
Any other info you guys may think is helpful would be great as well.
1. Is the cost of upkeep greater on the Civic GX over any other new Civic? Yes, somewhat higher. The fuel filters need to be replaced. THe price is coming down as the service technicians realize that they only need to change the insert and not the entire filter housing. A few hundred dollars every 30,000 miles.
2.Cost of driving? Looking in the catalog I picked up for the honda dealer they are showing the MPG as 24/36 I am getting a full 35 MPGge. You could get less or more depending upon your driving habits and where you drive.
3. Home refill or useing fuel centers? The PHILL unit looks to cost alot plus it needs to be Remade each 3000 to 5000 hours of use? do you end up saving alot of money just useing fuel center? I have a filling station near my house (about 7 miles), Near my work (about 5 miles), and near my wife's work (about 3 miles). Not only does the Phill have to be rebuilt, but it has to be sent to canada to be rebuilt. I am thinking about getting a CNG Crown Vic for my wife and getting a 2 hose FM 2. It will cost about $6000 or maybe $7000, but it will lower the price of gas for my house, for my car, and can be rebuilt onsite. It can also be rebuilt an unlimited number of times. This means that it will always have some resale value.
4. We live in So.Cal. will the be making/opening more fuel centers as time gose on? They may. They may not. No way to know. Don't plan on it. If they don't, will you be ok with the filling centers as they exist? If not, don't go this way.
5.Resale the honda salesman told use that the resale on this car is very bad not like say a Civic LX ? The resale is going up because of demand in Utah and Ok. Fuel prices are under $1 there, so people are buying them as fast as they can. From what I've seen, price for used is up about 15% to 30% in the last year. Never buy a car based on what it will be worth when you sell it. I assume I will squeeze all of the juice out of this orange. If you take care of it, you can expect a GX to last between 350,000 miles to 500,000 miles (the fuel is cleaner, leaves fewer if any deposits on the engine, and it is less corrosive).
If I were buying mine now, knowing what I know, I would either buy used 2001 or older. I would buy 2 of them and get a Fuel Maker 2 for the same price as a 2008 GX. If I were INTENT on buying a new one, I would start with Curtis Martin over in Lancaster. He runs the CNG newsgroup on Yahoo and is working hard to publicize the GX and so on. I hear he can give good deals. ANY dealer can order you a gx for sale. They all pay the same price. Maybe one will give you a better deal. Go during normal business hours so they can contact Honda USA and find out what it would cost.
BTW I really love my FM-Q2-36. I have 3 natural gas vehicles, so having two hoses and being able to crank-out a gallon per hour is great. Bought it new for around $8k under Honda's special deal for new GX buers. I look at it like home furniture... costs a bit upfront but will use it for a lifetime. Phill made no economic sense to me due to the send-back-to-Canada refurbish requirements. Of course. for some people Phill is the only way to go if you must have an indoor setup due to HOA rules, etc.
Is the Civic GX a Zero Emmissions Vehicle? My wife is looking at the 91 toll Road here in So.Cal. and they offer and discount on zero Emmisson vehicle? would that work with the civic GX?
jvenglass -- it appears that you are repeatably asking the same questions (in this case - yellow vs. silver stickers).
please spend some time looking around these forums before you ask these questions (especially before you ask them multiple times). you will likely find the vast majority of the answers you are seeking in these forums.
We are looking into a gx and a fmq2. We have well head gas. Has anyone had any problems with moisture? Contaminants? We have been told that the dryers work well by one perssoon ( the one wanting to sell the system), and that it won't woork by another. HELP!!!
I have a '99GX. A year or so ago, the Check Engine light went on, and the code revealed a defective Oxygen sensor; replaced it. Recently (twice) the CE light went on. The code: P0131 indicates a sensor problem, and diagnosis revealed a slightly erratic voltage output behavior, but no other problem. Exhaust manifold is not cracked. Code reset. (Mechanic did not charge for service.) Sensor part no. is unique to GX, but sensor is common Honda part.
Any similar experiences? Explanations?
I'm told voltage is supposed to cycle within a range, normally. Behavior is within normal range, but up and down behavior is occasionally "sticky," which may be triggering the CE light and sensor code.
Code was reset in May, 2008, and has not come on since. I don't know how he did a code reset. Dealing with the computer is beyond my functioning capability, though I understand that, perhaps like you, there is some equipment available to read and perhaps manipulate the computer.
While I used to be a back-yard mechanic, and my dad had an auto repair facility, I too old and not willing to take on messy tasks these days, or willing to meddle with the high-tech stuff, for which I'm not equipped (hardware or documentation). Wish I could help more, because it sounds like you're having the same experience that I had. If you're near San Francisco, you would be well served by my Honda-non-dealer-specialist, in Walnut Creek, but I don't think we're allowed to be more specific on this forum. You could try googling.
It is my understanding that they do not sell Gx's in Colorado. When I took mine to the dealer to buy a part the Service Tech indicated that he had never worked on one before. I have run into several CNG cars in COS, usually at the CNG gas station. One of the PPLD Bookmobiles uses CNG and I see it at the station quite often. I do not know if there is an installer for the PHILL in COS. I originally looked into one but it was too much - there was no financial payback. I think you would enjoy it - you just have to gas up at only one place in town. It is located on Tia Juana (about 1/2 block from Fargo's Pizza off of Platte near Circle). If the gas station is way out of your normal driving that might be a hassle. I drive close to there four times a week - so it is easy for me. I purchased mine used from out of state and had it shipped here.
Because there is only 1 pump in town I did some more research and bought a Civic Hybrid. As much as I wanted the GX I'm very happy with the hybrid. I'm getting 55-56 MPG and it keeps getting better. I expect to get a 600 mile tank soon (10gal tank).
thought i'd bring up the first post in this thread the says the natural gas version of the Civic is a "no brainer"
My local paper today reported on the Civic GX and I too thought it was a "no brainer" as in no way would I buy one.
The report said it holds the equivalent of 8 gallons of gas; the tank takes up half the trunk, it takes a long time to fill and if you want to do it at home it'll cost you $3,500 to convert your gas meter to a filling station. Oh and the kicker is the car costs $5,000 more than the gasoline version.
I see some of the logic for going with natural gas, but it doesn't outway the negatives in my opinion.
I have 2 GXs and couldn't be happier. I also just bought a bifuel Cavalier for my daughter. We have a home fueling pump and I now only cringe about once a month when I fill our minivan with gasoline.
One mistake in your post -- fueling at a CNG station is as fast as a gasoline car. Filling is only slow at home (when your car is usually sitting there for hours anyway).
One other mistake -- dealers are adding $2500 to $5000 to the sticker price so it's even more -- $7500 to $10000 more than the standard Civic, if you can find one! :P
agreed with freedml -- i'll add that mine was $1k under sticker, and i received the full $4k tax credit, so final price for my 06 was $19k. also remember, honda is not making money on these cars ... the actual price of conversion to CNG is actually higher yet.
this is not a good car if you are thinking of it as a normal car for normal use (aka. not only commute, but also road trips, hauling stuff, etc.) b/c clearly road trips must be carefully planned (if you have the infrastructure in your state to begin with) and yes, the trunk is 1/2 size.
but for my wife and i, in the bay area ... it is the perfect commuter. free bridge tolls, several fill stations along our route (that are just as fast as normal gas fills) and carpool lane access anytime. i consistently get 250 miles on a tank (that's 40 mpg) which is the same range i have on my Honda S2000 ... so for me, no difference in frequency of filling. in fact, between the savings on gas and lack of bridge tolls, at $500/month car loan, my GX is essentially a free car. and that isn't even considering the 1 hour+ per day i save b/c of the carpool lane access.
yes there are compromises ... but the GX can be the right tool for the job ... it all depends on the job you have for it.
also -- on the home filling station: if you go that route, it is costly in the beginning ... but remember, the price you pay for natty gas at home is much less than at the pump, at it will pay for itself in a few years (depending on mileage). and remember the convenience!
if you have more questions, this is the place for you!
epi wrote: this is not a good car if you are thinking of it as a normal car for normal use (aka. not only commute, but also road trips, hauling stuff, etc.) b/c clearly road trips must be carefully planned
You may have forgotten one thing epi...I can go over 500 miles with my 2000 GX since I've added a second tank (less than 1K) as I don't have a cng access at home, so it is a VERY 'normal' car for me! But, I will sell it when in 2009 or 2010 they come out with a good electric car. I'm going to put solar cells (thin film, which will cost less than half of the silicon kind and they will be out by then ) all over the car and run it on the sun!
I bought a ScanGauge II. It isn't just a code reader and resetter, but a trip computer also. It is great! The neatest thing I do with it other than resetting the cel is watching the mpg while I'm driving. You may be surprised how much better city mileage you can get just by letting off the accelerator slightly. I can get high 30's in the city very easily with it while maintaining posted limits. And don't let anyone tell you that you can get better mileage going over 60, than you can at 55 or 60. My scangauge proves you can't!
adea - yes, we aren't all so lucky to have an extra tank
as i said, my price for a brand new one in 06 was $1k under sticker (both Mel Rapton in Sac and Lodi gave this quote), so $23k+tax. then, $4k tax credit at end of year tax season. so for me, $19k.
check out this google map for locations in bay area, with prices (as reported by users):
PG&E updates their CNG prices 1/month. all PG&E pumps are that price ... usually most private stations are PG&E + a little bit. exception is Clean Energy owned stations, which charge whatever the hell they want. (most people here don't like CE as you might suspect). current prices are just south of $3 / 'gallon' ... remember, CNG is pressurized, so they call it gas gallon equivalent to make it easy for us gasoline-trained folks. this is the highest any of us has ever seen CNG ... though there isn't a huge supply-demand reason for this, it is purely a function of the declining dollar and desire to hedge by getting into commodities (like oil).
i consistently get 40mpg, and i drive from vallejo to south san francisco ... so though it is highway, it is often more city-like driving (ahhh, I-80). expect to get 30-35 in actual city i suspect. like any car, depends how you drive it.
Obviously, you need to make the decision that is best for you. I purchased the cars I have "used" and save 5500.00 per year in gas (I went from a gasoline Saturn to 2 CNG Honda). My father went from a ford two door to a Crown Victoria and he saves about 5800 per year. If you feel it is NOT a benefit then no worries you should still want others to purchase these types of autos because it does reduce OIL consumption.
Some states the difference in the cost of CNG per gallon equivalent is not large enough to justify. I pay about 85 cents a gallon. In some eastern states it is 5.00plus a gallon for CNG. You are losing money in those states and you would gain anything to purchase a CNG automobile.
It takes about 3-5 minutes to fill the tank. There is a technology being developed in CA (not currently available on the market). This technology would cost about $1000 for the home pump and about 15 cents more to use. It would fill the tank in approximately 1 hour and would allow the entire tank to be filled to its 8 gallon max (currently you only get about 6 max). The reason you get more in the "slow fill" than a fast fill is caused by pressure you create to fill the tank faster than you would if slower. You also pay 15 cents more because your electric bill will go up to run the compressor.
You may also want to look at Boone Pickens comments about Natural Gas. Boone is the big Texas OIL man who is trying to replace about 20% - 30% of the imported OIL with CNG. It is not a bad plan. It will not work for everyone, but it will benefit those who buy CNG and those who don’t if you follow Boone's logic. Boone believes by reducing the OIL use by those percentage supply and demand ratios will force oil down.
Dear nwhiting -- What "new technology" that is being developed in CA are you talking about? Please cite specific sources for the rest of us to check out. I am skeptical as your post is the first and only that has mentioned this -- and I read many popular CNG forums. But two guys did discover a dead "bigfoot" about two weeks ago, so I'm sure that anything is possible.
I was in correct. I thought Mr. Green was from California. He is from Oregon. Mr. John S. Green, the developer of the Eco-Fueler, developed and holder of a "Method Patent" for Hydraulic compressor. Here is the links:
The challenge is convincing Mr. Green to sell the hydrolic compressor separately from the Eco-Fueler. By the way, if you look real close in the "youtube" video you can see the shadow of "Bigfoot." I think he was hired as a technical advisor. I believe he has been there for over two weeks.
You're missing the boat and still giving your money to a foreign cartel...too bad.
The Civix GX is the way to go, and the Element NGV is in the works. Fill at home for a buck a gallon. Natural gas prices just dropped ~40% in a month. I have saved ~$10 in fuel over the last three years by filling at home. Have you looked at the tax benefits? I just bought a 2008 GX and will be selling my 2-yr old 2007 GX FOR A PROFIT.
larsb -- not exactly. honda has consistently had the highest MPG and lowest emission fleets for many years. adding a CNG car to a fleet with those stats doesn't really make sense with your reasoning. and remember, they've had a GX for many years now, before they started adding lower MPG cars like their truck. show me some data that suggests they wouldn't meet CAFE standards without the GX and perhaps some of us will buy your explanation
sorry - i didn't read the article prior to posting. but now that i did ... i think the article is pretty off-base. they present a fair bit of evidence to support their claims, but their bias is pretty obvious, so it's hard to take the writer's word at face value. 'intentionally make the GX less attractive' ... a) honda is NOT known for putting amazing sound and nav systems in their cars (maybe in the more expensive acuras) ... they skimp in the GX for space reasons and cost reasons only. b) honda has conspicuous gas guzzlers in their fleet - example Ridgeline and S2000 ... while both of these do worse than civics / accords, both of these vehicles do better than their peers!
i don't have a good reason for why Spokane was unable to get their GX's ... but i still stick with the contention that it isn't b/c Honda is producing the GX to raise their CAFE, or to push their 'high-yielding gas guzzlers' instead.
honda has always been a conservative car company - my guess is that they are not about to tool up for major production of an alternative fuel car until they feel that they can actually sell them.
i'll happily be educated if someone has better data!
If we are exempt from parking fees and bridge tolls and have carpool lane access, why are we required to get a SMOG certificate when renewing our vehicle registrations?
On the Bay Bridge approach from 880, there is a bus lane, where no toll is charged, marked with separate signs (approximate wording) "Busses Only" "Car Pools OK [hours]" and "Vehicles with Clean Air Sticker OK." I have used it many many times without interference. Does anyone know if this truly permits CNG cars with white stickers to use the lane anytime? Only during car pool hours?
Yes, CNG cars with white stickers are allowed to bypass the main toll plaza using these lanes during carpool hours ONLY. this is also the same for all other Bay Area bridges - though some do not have a bypass ... for these you just go through 'carpool' stalls.
i cross the Carquinez and Bay Bridge everyday this way, and have saved about $75 million dollars the GX is the perfect Bay Area commuter car! and my 2006 will be for sale in a few months (we're leaving the state) in case anyone is listening
Comments
i know that you can't get a full 12 gal at fill up, but I think I should get at least 10 gal.
The most I can fill to is 6.7 gal and thats with the gauge below the red bar.
Do I have more fuel then is indicated by gauge.
The most I ever got was 7.2 gge on a fast fill. Bone dry empty, towed into the station.
Sounds like you have a closed manual valve or stuck check valve in the system.
Did you buy the vehicle used with the extra tank ?, or have it installed by a shop. Prob. time to have the shop who installed it have a look at the problem.
I changed mine at 100k on one GX. They came out awfully clean. I plan to change the filters on the other one at 100k although I probably don't need to.
I'm interested in prices paid and contact information for places that you are familiar with for adding an extra tank(s) to Civic GX's. Also curious, does anyoone know if it affects the factory warranty in any way? I have a few quotes, but they are all above $2500....more than I want to spend.
Thanks,
Adrian
Then send a pm to a member called adea. I think his name is Gary.
He had an extra tank installed in AZ. for far less. I personally would not recommend doing it , but adea and many others have , and report no problems.
As to warranty , ask your dealer.
So, here's the question(s): If I got a GX (I like the tea green) that would make how many of us in the COS area? 2? 3? Do you think I could get one local or would I have to order one from Calif and have it shipped? Thoughts on convincing "She who must be obeyed". (who was researching 'commitment papers' the other day).
cal
Black Forest, Co
Shipping should be about $600 if you shop around.
The only problem to think about , is a Honda CNG certified tech, if an issue with warranty service on the fuel system comes up.
Thanks
Chuck
out some more info.
1. Is the cost of upkeep greater on the Civic GX over any other new Civic?
2.Cost of driving? Looking in the catalog I picked up for the honda dealer they are
showing the MPG as 24/36
3. Home refill or useing fuel centers? The PHILL unit looks to cost alot plus it
needs to be Remade each 3000 to 5000 hours of use? do you end up saving
alot of money just useing fuel center?
4. We live in So.Cal. will the be making/opening more fuel centers as time
gose on?
5.Resale the honda salesman told use that the resale on this car is very bad
not like say a Civic LX ?
If we were to buy one in the next 4 to 6 weeks would there be any tax savings offers?
My wife drives about 100 miles round trip each day to work here in So.Cal.
Any other info you guys may think is helpful would be great as well.
Thanks.
Yes, somewhat higher. The fuel filters need to be replaced. THe price is coming down as the service technicians realize that they only need to change the insert and not the entire filter housing. A few hundred dollars every 30,000 miles.
2.Cost of driving? Looking in the catalog I picked up for the honda dealer they are
showing the MPG as 24/36
I am getting a full 35 MPGge. You could get less or more depending upon your driving habits and where you drive.
3. Home refill or useing fuel centers? The PHILL unit looks to cost alot plus it
needs to be Remade each 3000 to 5000 hours of use? do you end up saving
alot of money just useing fuel center?
I have a filling station near my house (about 7 miles), Near my work (about 5 miles), and near my wife's work (about 3 miles). Not only does the Phill have to be rebuilt, but it has to be sent to canada to be rebuilt. I am thinking about getting a CNG Crown Vic for my wife and getting a 2 hose FM 2. It will cost about $6000 or maybe $7000, but it will lower the price of gas for my house, for my car, and can be rebuilt onsite. It can also be rebuilt an unlimited number of times. This means that it will always have some resale value.
4. We live in So.Cal. will the be making/opening more fuel centers as time
gose on?
They may. They may not. No way to know. Don't plan on it. If they don't, will you be ok with the filling centers as they exist? If not, don't go this way.
5.Resale the honda salesman told use that the resale on this car is very bad
not like say a Civic LX ?
The resale is going up because of demand in Utah and Ok. Fuel prices are under $1 there, so people are buying them as fast as they can. From what I've seen, price for used is up about 15% to 30% in the last year. Never buy a car based on what it will be worth when you sell it. I assume I will squeeze all of the juice out of this orange. If you take care of it, you can expect a GX to last between 350,000 miles to 500,000 miles (the fuel is cleaner, leaves fewer if any deposits on the engine, and it is less corrosive).
If I were buying mine now, knowing what I know, I would either buy used 2001 or older. I would buy 2 of them and get a Fuel Maker 2 for the same price as a 2008 GX. If I were INTENT on buying a new one, I would start with Curtis Martin over in Lancaster. He runs the CNG newsgroup on Yahoo and is working hard to publicize the GX and so on. I hear he can give good deals. ANY dealer can order you a gx for sale. They all pay the same price. Maybe one will give you a better deal. Go during normal business hours so they can contact Honda USA and find out what it would cost.
could do this and at what cost?
Do you have Curtis Martins e-mail address? How do I find the Yahoo group?
http://www.cngchat.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=52
BTW I really love my FM-Q2-36. I have 3 natural gas vehicles, so having two hoses and being able to crank-out a gallon per hour is great. Bought it new for around $8k under Honda's special deal for new GX buers. I look at it like home furniture... costs a bit upfront but will use it for a lifetime. Phill made no economic sense to me due to the send-back-to-Canada refurbish requirements. Of course. for some people Phill is the only way to go if you must have an indoor setup due to HOA rules, etc.
the civic GX?
What are the Silver HOV stickers VS the Yellow?
Thanks.
please spend some time looking around these forums before you ask these questions (especially before you ask them multiple times). you will likely find the vast majority of the answers you are seeking in these forums.
epi
epi
Any similar experiences? Explanations?
I'm told voltage is supposed to cycle within a range, normally. Behavior is within normal range, but up and down behavior is occasionally "sticky," which may be triggering the CE light and sensor code.
I have a 2000 Honda Civic GX. Today the CE light came on. The Autozone code reader gave me P0131 Low Voltage.
While I used to be a back-yard mechanic, and my dad had an auto repair facility, I too old and not willing to take on messy tasks these days, or willing to meddle with the high-tech stuff, for which I'm not equipped (hardware or documentation). Wish I could help more, because it sounds like you're having the same experience that I had. If you're near San Francisco, you would be well served by my Honda-non-dealer-specialist, in Walnut Creek, but I don't think we're allowed to be more specific on this forum. You could try googling.
My local paper today reported on the Civic GX and I too thought it was a "no brainer" as in no way would I buy one.
The report said it holds the equivalent of 8 gallons of gas; the tank takes up half the trunk, it takes a long time to fill and if you want to do it at home it'll cost you $3,500 to convert your gas meter to a filling station. Oh and the kicker is the car costs $5,000 more than the gasoline version.
I see some of the logic for going with natural gas, but it doesn't outway the negatives in my opinion.
One mistake in your post -- fueling at a CNG station is as fast as a gasoline car. Filling is only slow at home (when your car is usually sitting there for hours anyway).
One other mistake -- dealers are adding $2500 to $5000 to the sticker price so it's even more -- $7500 to $10000 more than the standard Civic, if you can find one!
:P
this is not a good car if you are thinking of it as a normal car for normal use (aka. not only commute, but also road trips, hauling stuff, etc.) b/c clearly road trips must be carefully planned (if you have the infrastructure in your state to begin with) and yes, the trunk is 1/2 size.
but for my wife and i, in the bay area ... it is the perfect commuter. free bridge tolls, several fill stations along our route (that are just as fast as normal gas fills) and carpool lane access anytime. i consistently get 250 miles on a tank (that's 40 mpg) which is the same range i have on my Honda S2000 ... so for me, no difference in frequency of filling. in fact, between the savings on gas and lack of bridge tolls, at $500/month car loan, my GX is essentially a free car. and that isn't even considering the 1 hour+ per day i save b/c of the carpool lane access.
yes there are compromises ... but the GX can be the right tool for the job ... it all depends on the job you have for it.
also -- on the home filling station: if you go that route, it is costly in the beginning ... but remember, the price you pay for natty gas at home is much less than at the pump, at it will pay for itself in a few years (depending on mileage). and remember the convenience!
if you have more questions, this is the place for you!
epi
You may have forgotten one thing epi...I can go over 500 miles with my 2000 GX since I've added a second tank (less than 1K) as I don't have a cng access at home, so it is a VERY 'normal' car for me!
What is the net cost of the Civic gx after tax rebates.
What does it cost to fill the tank and how many miles will it typically get in the city?
I live in the Bay Area as well near San Jose, and was wondering where the Nat Gas stations are?
as i said, my price for a brand new one in 06 was $1k under sticker (both Mel Rapton in Sac and Lodi gave this quote), so $23k+tax. then, $4k tax credit at end of year tax season. so for me, $19k.
check out this google map for locations in bay area, with prices (as reported by users):
http://www.cngprices.com/index.php?bounds=%2528%252837.612599643383284%252C%2520- -122.53326416015626%2529%252C%2520%252838.14265747385727%252C%2520-122.031326293- 9453%2529%2529
PG&E updates their CNG prices 1/month. all PG&E pumps are that price ... usually most private stations are PG&E + a little bit. exception is Clean Energy owned stations, which charge whatever the hell they want. (most people here don't like CE as you might suspect). current prices are just south of $3 / 'gallon' ... remember, CNG is pressurized, so they call it gas gallon equivalent to make it easy for us gasoline-trained folks. this is the highest any of us has ever seen CNG ... though there isn't a huge supply-demand reason for this, it is purely a function of the declining dollar and desire to hedge by getting into commodities (like oil).
i consistently get 40mpg, and i drive from vallejo to south san francisco ... so though it is highway, it is often more city-like driving (ahhh, I-80). expect to get 30-35 in actual city i suspect. like any car, depends how you drive it.
Some states the difference in the cost of CNG per gallon equivalent is not large enough to justify. I pay about 85 cents a gallon. In some eastern states it is 5.00plus a gallon for CNG. You are losing money in those states and you would gain anything to purchase a CNG automobile.
It takes about 3-5 minutes to fill the tank. There is a technology being developed in CA (not currently available on the market). This technology would cost about $1000 for the home pump and about 15 cents more to use. It would fill the tank in approximately 1 hour and would allow the entire tank to be filled to its 8 gallon max (currently you only get about 6 max). The reason you get more in the "slow fill" than a fast fill is caused by pressure you create to fill the tank faster than you would if slower. You also pay 15 cents more because your electric bill will go up to run the compressor.
You may also want to look at Boone Pickens comments about Natural Gas. Boone is the big Texas OIL man who is trying to replace about 20% - 30% of the imported OIL with CNG. It is not a bad plan. It will not work for everyone, but it will benefit those who buy CNG and those who don’t if you follow Boone's logic. Boone believes by reducing the OIL use by those percentage supply and demand ratios will force oil down.
http://eco-fueler.com/about/hydraulic_compression_technology.html
http://www.podtech.net/home/1682/eco-fuelers-american-roadster
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrHCQqkhvGw
The challenge is convincing Mr. Green to sell the hydrolic compressor separately from the Eco-Fueler. By the way, if you look real close in the "youtube" video you can see the shadow of "Bigfoot." I think he was hired as a technical advisor. I believe he has been there for over two weeks.
I was wondering if you still have any used Fuelmakers? I live in San Diego and could either ship it or consider making the drive (in my turck!).
Thanks, Chris (crtr@rocketmail.com)
The Civix GX is the way to go, and the Element NGV is in the works. Fill at home for a buck a gallon. Natural gas prices just dropped ~40% in a month. I have saved ~$10 in fuel over the last three years by filling at home. Have you looked at the tax benefits? I just bought a 2008 GX and will be selling my 2-yr old 2007 GX FOR A PROFIT.
Honda must sell the GX merely to get CAFE points or something. They certainly are not trying to expand their market.
epi
i don't have a good reason for why Spokane was unable to get their GX's ... but i still stick with the contention that it isn't b/c Honda is producing the GX to raise their CAFE, or to push their 'high-yielding gas guzzlers' instead.
honda has always been a conservative car company - my guess is that they are not about to tool up for major production of an alternative fuel car until they feel that they can actually sell them.
i'll happily be educated if someone has better data!
epi
RB :confuse:
i cross the Carquinez and Bay Bridge everyday this way, and have saved about $75 million dollars
epi