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Weather in DC is pretty average as far as rain. I wouldn't drive either a C2 or C4 in the snow, and probably not in a heavy rain unless it hit unexpectedly.
As far as driving a new C4S, I don't think that would give me a fair comparison, as I wouldn't rev it past 4,000 rpm out of respect for the break in requirements. And I have found my C2S feels even quicker now at 4,800 miles than it did immediately post-break in at 2,000 miles. I checked with another friend who has a 2003 911TT. He thought I would notice a difference initially, but after a couple of months the C4S would feel plenty fast and my memory of the C2S would have faded.
How's your C4 Cab? Past the break-in yet? Give us an update.
Amazing Winter here so far, many top-down afternoons including today; 60 and mostly sunny. I don't really go many places and I have two vehicles so the P-car has 1252 as of today. I always drive far enough to make sure the oil has hit its operating temperature. Car arrived with a system error, "headlights misaligned" but a faulty sensor was replaced at closest dealer in Asheville. No problems other than that but how can a dealership (not the one in Asheville) release a new P-car with that or any kind of error message??
Absolutely LOVE the car. Still feel the coupes look better but so glad I got the cab. Was enjoying cloud formations today (while also paying attention to driving). Car handles (all mountain twisty roads here in western NC) amazingly well and brakes are inspiring! Haven't really pushed her yet but am more & more now that 1,000 mile mark has passed. Have probably just missed getting several tickets when airing it out briefly then resuming safe speed only to have a State Trooper breeze by in the other direction! Timing (and dumb luck) IS everything. If I can answer any specific questions, please feel free to ask. Car also came one "bar" down in oil and after 1,000 miles went to 2 bars down. I had dealer top it off while there for the sensor replacement and it took what feels like 2/3 of my bottle of Mobil 1.
Oil gauge hasn't moved since but some oil use during breakin is "normal" I have been told.
My previous experience with a two seater Porsche was a 912 when I came back from Vietnam. Lousy heat, intensive maintenace, and you couldn't keep it in the same lane on an Interstate at anything over 60 MPH in a five mile an hour wind. (And it wasn't even an evil 911!). I dumped it for a Datsun 240Z and never looked back.
I see a new 997 as providing good high speed fun on the Vermont-a-bahn. But I'm concerned, how stable will it be? In rain? Will it have decent ground clearance for the inevitable chunks of ice? Is the ride going to drive me crazy? Or is it really only a nice weekend car for Greenwich, CT and So. Cal? If I do buy a 997, how should I option it?
The alternatives that come to mind (beyond keeping and enjoying the Cayenne) don't turn me on: at 61 I still wear jeans and hiking boots so that eliminates an E Class, fourmatic or not, I'm definetely too young for an S Class, an A6 is north of 50K but lacks panache, a Saab Aero will have front spoiler clearance problems, a new '06 Tahoe is fine to beat around in but for 700 mile weekends on an Interstate?, etc.
Stable? Yes, very!
Rain? The 997 is the most refined Porsche yet. I like the 4 (AWD) version and you might want to consider it for your part of the country.
Ground clearance? Less than your Cayenne.
My 997 C4 Cab rides great, very comfortable, not darty or harsh.
Here are a few URLs ending with a video by a certified Porsche hater (TopGear).
Enjoy,
Don
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0509_porsche_911_carrera/
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/intellichoice/369_0512_review_2006_porsche_9- 11_carrera/index.html
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060109/FREE/51229005/1011/L- ongtermTests
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?id=12776
http://www.autocar.co.uk/RoadTest_Summary.asp?RT=211162
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2955604540330137242&q=top+gear
Thanks for your thoughts and the link. Seeing Jeremy in action is quite a treat. Wow! I wouldn't have thought only 92" or so inches for WB and 4.8 cubic feet of trunk. Hardly enough room for two gymn bags when we go to the Montreal Athletic Club.
Bad news: Not only less ground clearance than your Cayenne, but I suspect less than the Saab Aero. Better take a tape measure to your Porsche dealer yourself.
Verdict: If you only have one vehicle to make a Boston to Montreal trek, stick with the Cayenne. If you have a backup vehicle for bad weather, the 911S will make you look forward to the trip.
Options: I just ordered (non-binding) a 2006 997S Cab in speed Yellow with the following options: Sport Chrono, Sport Shifter, Adaptive Sport Seats, Navigation, Bose, 6-CD, Heated Seats, Self Dim Mirrors, Carrera Classic Wheels, Black Mats. I currently have Sport Exhaust, which sounds great, but at $2,500 would have required a binding commitment to my dealer, which I wasn't prepared to make.
P.S. I stayed with a C2S Cab rather than the C4S, but I agree with Don. You sound like a good candidate for the AWD "4".
I spoke with a Porsche sales guy I respect (at Porsche of Nashau) and he feels interestingly that the C4 with its wider track and additional weight has a little bit softer ride than the C2 and that when you come off the gas on the C4 the brakes are preloaded in anticipation of use. (This is now exclusive to the C4 but will soon migrate to the C2). Finally, he thought that the additonal 6K or so upcharge for the C4 would be repaid in a higher resale.
I'm leaning toward a relatively base C4. I don't plan on attending any track days or even Bob Bondurant. I just want something for some high speed touring. I figure I could get up early on Monday mornings in Montreal and be walking into the company at 9:00 AM with a smile on my face.
The differences are that I am foregoing the $2,400 (now $2,500) sport exhaust. (Sounds great, but I had to draw the line somewhere). My 2005 also had $220 Headrest Crests and $415 Metal Door Sill Insignias that I'm not getting. Plus, I'm saving $825 on non-Metalic Paint. With that kitty of savings, I added a sport shifter ($765) and replaced the black leather ($1520) power seats ($1550) with adaptive sport seats ($3055). I also opted for the $390 extra 5-spoke "Classic" wheel which, if nothing else, will save me 15 minutes of washing and cleaning time every week over the standard Cab S wheel. The 2006 base price went up $2,500.
The "Sport Chrono" package has proven to be one of my favorite options in my 2005. The "chrono" half is somewhat frivolous - a stopwatch mounted up on the center of the dash that you can use to measure trip times (or lap times if you go to a track). But the "sport" half is a real treat. Press the sport button in the center console and the throttle response is immediately bumped up to feel like you added an instant 30 horsepower. If you recall from the video link Don provided, you can almost see the driver get tossed back when he activates it.
You might want to look at Porsche's website and go to the link that gives you individual dealers' inventories. Some dealers list the MSRP of their cars in stock. $102,600 for a 2006 Cab S is probably about average. Every once in awhile, you see a really loaded car - full leather interior, special wheels, etc. - for $110,000+. But you don't find too many "strippers" with much less than $5,000 worth of options.
My dealer would have wanted a binding commitment from me if I had wanted sport exhaust, full leather, or any "custom" options. However, he also would have wanted a binding commitment if I DIDN'T want Navigation, Bose and at least Power Seats. He indicated that a 911 without those is very tough to re-sell. You might want to consider those options, even on a "base" C4.
Good luck.
I have read in Motor Trend (I know,...) that the full leather interior is almost a necessity.
Full leather looks very nice, but at $3,400, it doesn't "look" as nice as the $2,500 sport exhaust "sounds" in my opinion. I wonder if Motor Trend's opinion that it is almost a necessity was rendered on the old 996 interior rather than the new 997? When I was in the dealership, they tried to tempt me with a leftover 2005 911TT Cab (996) at a very hefty discount. But even with the full leather in that car, it was two rungs down the ladder from the interior of the 997, IMO. They need to sell the 996 Turbo to someone who hasn't seen the insides of a 997.
Other than the Nav, Bose and Heated Seats (mandatory for a Cab), most of my other options are performance oriented. You can really get carried away on the cosmetic options if you start checking everything like custom colors, painted this and leather that, etc. When I was considering a Boxster S late last summer instead of the 911, there was a 2006 GT Silver/Terracotta Full Leather one that was loaded up with other options for an MSRP of $76,000 +/- at an Ohio dealership. Cancelled custom order. It's still sitting there 5 months later, and I suspect will have to be sold at $5k+ under invoice (I was offered $2k under last September).
But wait, before I correctly get called on it, the major factor for my possible trade is to go from Seal Grey to Speed Yellow (using my daughters as an excuse). So I guess I shouldn't question anyone else's choice of cosmetic upgrades.
Speaking of paddles, this week's Automotive News reports that Maser finds the paddle shift a hard sell at that price point because everyone (i.e., the Bentley GT buyer) wants an automatic. Incidentally, the Automotive News is THE trade journal for anyone in the industry. For car nuts like us it is like General Westmoreland being put on the North Vietnames Army publications distribution list.
The 911 is a sports car. That is what I wanted. That it happens to hold my kids in the dimunitive back seat helped justify $35-40k premium over the Boxster S. There really weren't that many true sports car alternatives out there. I drove the $95k Maserati Spyder. Not as quick as the 911, doesn't handle as well as my former $32k Honda S2000, no back seat for the kids, and depreciates like crazy. I do not consider the new Aston Martin V8 a sports car, but rather a sporty GT.
You appear to looking more for a long distance highway cruiser than a sports car. I could rattle off 10 cars you should consider, ranging from the Aston, to the SL500/SL55, to my personal super sedan favorite, the V10 BMW M5 (which will be available with a 6 speed in several months). But the Maserati Quatroporte would NOT be on my list. EVER.
You have me by about a dozen years, so I know you are old enough to remember the old Quatroporte. Maserati's answer to the BMW M6 with two extra doors. It was a piece of junk. You got all the fun of Italian maintenance problems without any of the real performance. One poor guy I worked with in 1982 bought one. Don't remember exactly what he paid for it, but I remember he sold it about 18 months later for well less than 50% of what he paid. You couldn't give them away. It just about broke him.
"While 109K is more than a base 997, by the time guys like habitat1 get through with their order form they are in 6 digits anyway so there isn't much difference. Just a thought."
Wrong. There is a HUGE difference. While a loaded 911 and Maseratti may cost about the same up front, I can just about guarantee you that the 911 - a perennial leader in resale value - will be worth significantly more than the Maseratti in 2,3,4,5+ years. After I went to drive the $95k Spyder last September, I was called back with an offer for a pristine one year old one with 9,000 miles for $58k. Do the math.
Want the cheapest alternative? Pony up $195k for a real Ferrari 430, rather than their downscale division's Q-porte. Drive it for a couple of years. Sell it for damn near what you paid for it. But don't drive it more than 4,000 miles a year. If you actually want a sports car you can drive, you'll be back looking at the 911. Alternatively, if you want 4 doors, a BMW M5 or even 550i 6-speed will get you a lot more pleasure than the pain of a Masserati.
In my state of perpetual grin after driving the pre-owned 911, I took a peak at a new 997 C4 Cab. Even though I was planning on looking at numbers on the used one and knew there was no possiblity of the $98.5k MSRP 997, I mentioned it to the sales manager. Within 20 minutes of looking at leasing scenarios, I pulled the trigger on the brand new 997 without even driving it. By noon this morning, I had my insurance set and by 2PM, I was home. I would have had the deal done within 1 hour on Friday if it were not for the close of business on Friday and if I had not had a prior engagement. And I now feel great again.
There are two very important lessons is this: If you're well-heeled and love cars, don't mess around, just get what you can afford. As long as you're a guy, you'll love cars that go really fast. Looking at practical automotive options in the $45-70k range is only going to bore you if you've seen the other side of the mountain. The second lesson is this: If you're feeling indecisive, you are very likely to make very poor decisions or even worse...stuck in non-decision mode. When the car fits, it will be no decision at all and you will glide through the process like butter.
Nothing beats a 911.
What tires did yours come with if you don't mind me asking?
Mine came with Bridgestone Potenzas.
I suspect that if you happened to find a C2 coupe or cab optioned the way you want in stock in NY right now, you could do a pretty good cash deal. But if you wait much longer, the spring fever for cabs will take over, and you will need to wait until next fall. You can check dealer inventories on the Porsche website by locating dealers in your area and clicking on their inventory list.
As I am sure you are aware, Porsche's option list is a mile long. If you have fairly specific desires, you may be better off ordering it. The 2006 Speed Yellow I have on order would be impossible to find in stock, equiped as I want.
That's what I meant. If you order a car to your exact specifications, you would be doing reasonably well to get $3k off; very well to get $5k off. But again, it's a supply / demand equation and I honestly don't know what NY area dealers are willing to do.
A cab (I don't think bosco42 gave his preference - coupe or cab) sitting in a dealer's lot "could" bring a slightly higher discount especially on a nice cold snowy day! If I remeber corerctly, New York gets a few of those!
And like you said, wait until Spring and forget-about-it.
Don't limit yourself to the "NY area"; most Porsche dealers will deliver a car to you or you can go pick it up and drive it back home - good way to get acquainted with your new vehicle.
First, I have a 997 C4 Cab and I LOVE it! I can also out the top down much more than 4 or 5 months. As much as I love my Cab I still think the coupe has the better lines. Couple that with the amount of top dpown time and your choices of S vs. non-S and I believe I'd go with the C2S coupe. Only thing better would be a C2S Cab or C4S Cab but don't forget the endless and very costly list of "must have" options on any Porsche which can really run up the bottom line.
Rumor has it that a Seal Grey with a lot of nice options like Nav, Sport Chrono, Bose, Power Leather Seats, Sport Exhaust.... and will be becoming available in March. It's just a rumor, but supposedly the owner has decided his girls would look better in a Speed Yellow one. And he's looking for a good home for that Seal Grey Cab S at a very attractive price!
Oh, and Bosco, that will be Speed Yellow with Black interior. I liked the contrast with my old S2000. The Speed Yellow / Sand is a little to light for my tastes.
How much is a 1999 coupe in silver with absolutely no service records ("My friend runs the Jiffy Lube down the street. We did all the oil changes there"), a GT3 front end treatment, worth?
If I wanted to spend $30-35k on a highly reliable, fun to drive car with very good performance, I'd get another brand new Honda S2000. I would not take a flier on a 7 year old 911 with 89,000 miles that doesn't have any documentation. I want a fun car that I can drive, not one that has a high probablility of being a headache. That's not "fun" in my book. Heck, I wouldn't buy a used Honda S2000 that had no documentation and Jiffy Lube oil changes, let alone a 911.
If, on the other hand, you want to spend the time and money to get the car thoroughly checked out by a legitimate Porsche mechanic, perhaps you can get the price low enough to make it a worthwhile risk. But life is too short for me to undertake that one.
I did some research into aftermarket powerkit and was amazed at the options. From superchargers to maxxed out motors.
A neighbor recently picked up his 900HP GT2 from 9ff. We did some joyriding and i'm hooked on the power now.
What i'm thinking now is to pick up a low-mile 05 997S and drop $10-15k in engine and suspension mods. I'll be keeping the car for at least three years.
I must admit it also crossed my mind to get a 996 turbo and modify that. The gains that can be made with turbos is really tempting. On the other hand, i dont know if the complexity of a turbo would be problematic. Also, i kinda wwant the newer body style.
What to you guys think? anybody own both?
Either way, check out these cool videos i turned up. That exhaust sounds amazing.
click here
there are so many spoilers available.
DO you want the factory aerokit one?
I've been pricing out a 9ff conversion car and saw this spoiler.
personally i like the biwing design to this one - kind alooks like a GT2 wing also.
great look!
But a big part of my decision to get a 911, especially the 997, was what I have determined is a pretty darn durable car. There is a RMS issue that may not have been resolved completely for the 997. But that is a one time issue that will likely surface in the 4 year/50k mile warranty.
I don't expect to get to 110k miles before needing new brake pads, as in my 1995 Nissan Maxima. Nor do I expect to have only $300 in total maintenance over 2.5 years and 20k miles with my Honda S2000. But I didn't buy the 911 with the intention of it being a low mileage garage queen. I am confident it will be fine for 12-15k miles per year for me.
Most reliable
"The slide show that follows this introduction lists the 14 most-reliable luxury cars on the market, including Murry's favorite, the 911, which receives J.D. Power and Associates' highest marks for dependability."
Where did you see the 911 listed in third place?
Last week, I had a business trip that included 140 mile highway roundtrip in windy conditions. I could feel the 20-30 mph sidewinds a little more than I expected, but when I set the PASM on sport mode, again it felt very stable at 75+ mph.
I wish the AMV8 were available to test drive here in DC. It is several hundred pounds heavier and, from what I understand, does not have as quick of steering, chassis or throttle feedback as the 911. Which may indeed means that it drives more like a smooth GT than a sports car on the highway. Hopefully, you will get a chance to test drive both before pulling the trigger.
I want a true sports car. I drive an Accord 5 days a week and I'm getting bored. I keep coming back to the 911 Carrera S, but have one main concern among many tiny ones. From what I've read, they tend to have an appetite for oil. Why? I've read how well built they are, but this bugs me. What am I to expect? Thanks
I may be wrong, but I do not believe a properly broken in 911 is going to experience any/much more long term oil consumption than other high performance engines.