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Here's what we know now (look out Q7!): The GMC Acadia just got a "First Drive" from Car and Driver, the best auto testers around. A quote: "The steering is precise and accurate, the handling is poised, body control in the twisties is excellent, and the ride is well controlled and supple. The brakes have a firm pedal feel, and are able to woe the 5000-pound Acadia with aplomb." That was from (click the following link)Acadia Test Drive
Uh-oh, the Q7 may be in for trouble, as I predicted. We still await more tests, so we'll see. Still no numbers to compare, except for MPG (GM wins) and HP/weight (about equal, slight edge to GM). Need crash test results, handling, etc.
Outlook Full test...
Yeah that was a FWD V6 but my gut is telling me even the AWD V8 model(I think they are still going to build that) won't do much better.
Not much solid info in the low-budget "Inside Line" test you cite. Road and Track, Car and Driver are the ones to go with. Still, the Inside Line test was very encouraging that the 3.6L Q7 version might have a little competition.
On the subject of the Inside Line tests, its well known they can't compare to the major league testers out there.
BTW I do not own a Q7 or any german car. I own 2 Volvo's (XC90 and S60) and a Hyundai Tucson (for the kids). I did test drive a Q7 which I don't think you did.
The wine/grape analogy is imagined. Thats what Audi wants you to believe. Fact is, you don't know what each are made of. (Metallurgy, # of spot welds, material selection, fit/finish are not that much different.) The fact that the Q7 weighs 5,000 lbs means they failed at structural optimization already. And for test drives, the only real way to tell is to let the experts drive it, instrumented and with expert eyes and hands. Someone might test drive it to form a final opinion, but if anybody thinks they can glean as much from a test drive as the experts, then they are delusional.
27 years ago I was like you, I trusted the demi-gods at C&D when they proclaimed the Chevy Citation the best car ever made and I let my girl friend buy one. That car was so bad it was actually dangerous to drive.
I don't care if a car is a tenth of a second quicker than another or if a journalist flown first class to Europe, Japan or wherever claim that the car built by whoever paid the ticket is the best ever. If "I" don't like it, I don't and I will buy something else.
A coworker bought an Equinox. He was so excited, how great this SUV was. Well at 40,000 miles this thing rattles from everywhere and the sounds from the suspension are just scary. He is far less excited now.
That will be it for me, you just don't get my point.
Time for another call...
I am in the market for one right now. My needs are basically something that will fit 2 adults and 2 car seats and still have some extra space for occasional family/friends. So 3rd row is important as long as I can put 1 or 2 of the car steats there. It is important for the SUV to have excellent safety ratings, which I think all of these do. Other than that I would like it to drive like a car and also be fun for me (sport mode, acceleration, cornering, etc.) - when I am not driving with kids
I would appreciate if you recently bought one of these SUVs and could share as to how/why you chose that one over the others. Also if you can share your experience so far with your new SUV.
Thanks!
I did take MDX out today for an hour (my 2nd test drive). And I have the Q7 overnight at my home for an extended test drive
I am definitely leaning towards the Q7 - I pretty much agree with your comments above. My only concern is Audi's reliability. I know it will be ok for the 4 yr warranty period, but will it be ok for 10 years, if I do decide to keep it that long?
- 07 BMW X5: Finally some cargo space, nice albeit spartan interior, very smooth new 3.0si engine, a bit more body roll than expected but overall a great ride. The third row's a joke. That and the price tag disqualified it for us.
- 07 MDX: Out-BMWs the BMW. The standard suspension is exquisite and the vehicle drives phenomenally well. The sport package with the active suspension is a joke as it eliminates the progressive feel of the standard suspension ( the car may ride steady but it does not feel that way with the active magnetic suspension). Interior styling felt a bit too much like a Sony boom-box to me. The nav system and the way it's integrated puts all germans to shame. The cramped third row (the second row does not slide forward) disqualified it for us (we really need that third row at times) otherwise we probably would have bought one despite the questionable styling.
- XC90: A solid plan B. Some questions about reliability but then we own an S60 and that one's been fine. Very comfortable but a not-very-refined ride when compared to all the newcomers. The seats are still better than anything else in the business i.m.o.. Elegant/simple interior, contrasts with the MDXs very busy dash. 07s somehow have better leg room in the third row, the 06s had virtually none.
- GL: The styling, price and expected reliability didn't appeal much to us so we didn't spend much time trying it out.
- Q7: This one came out the winner. Expensive and a bit heavy but very functional and exhibits a very composed ride. The V6 is adequate for us and the standard suspension is quite impressive (after a one-day trip on all possible kinds of roads including some very naughty twisties on Cal. Highway 1, just north of SF, I was sold). The third row's actually usable, the second one slides forward quite a bit, there's ample cargo room and there's enough trunk left for a day-trip with a car full of people will all seats up (or instead we can fit our big stroller in there with all seats up, something all other ones except for the Volvo have failed).
If you plan to really use the third row, check out the its position, it's rather dangerously close to the back of the vehicle in all but the Q7 and the Volvo, especially in the MDX. Either way I would not put child seats in there (none of them have LATCH anchors in the third row and I believe that's for a reason). I think the Audi manual said they were there but I couldn't find them. The Audi worked OK with 2 child seats side by side on the second row leaving room to slide one seat forward to get into the third row.
The shopping experience has also been best with Audi (second-best with Acura, worst with Mercedes and second-worst with BMW) but that's not indicative of what you may experience.
Hope this helps.
S.
In the end I think both 07 MDX and Q7 are great vehicles and you can't go wrong either way.
BTW, I definitely agree with you that Audi have great sales staff. They actually let me take the car home for extended test drive and were also quite helpful overall.
Diesel envy
Hope you don't need it but in case you do:
Questions About Auto Insurance & Accidents
All hail the new champion of obscene depreciation. Trust me.
Cheers!
As for the comparisons to the Outlook and Acadia, I'm not sure that this can be justified. For one thing GM has its own high-priced versions including the Enclave and the SRX. So any comparisons would need to involve them as well. Secondly, the driving experience is more important than just plain specifications. These aren't computers, they're vehicles. That means that the overall package can, and is in many cases much better than just the sum of the parts so-to-speak.
Also, consider the interiors. There isn't even a GM vehicle that can compare to the interior of a nicely loaded Jetta, never mind any of the Audis. I know that many of their vehicles have updated interiors, but wow, ok so they caught up to what [non-permissible content removed]/Ger vehicles were like in the mid 90s. It seems like the leap they take is never large enough to bridge the gap. Hard-dimply like cheap plastic should not be formed all over the dash and side-paneling in a $45K+ truck/suv. So, unless there is dramatic improvement, I doubt that the Acadia/Outlook versions will be better. When they come out, a good test drive will be needed. However, I will say this given GM's marketing history. The Trailblazer/Envoy was supposed to do what Acadia/Outlook is doing now, but sales on those vehicles are already lousy and getting worse. At some point, they have to stop promising that their vehicles are going to be the next "big" thing and concentrate on good design. That way, when they do sell well, they have a good foundation to make the claim on. Right now, all they have is 30+ years of big disappointments in terms of what they promised vs. what has been delivered with just a few exceptions. Most people would rather go with a company that has hit "home runs" 90% of the time rather than one which does it 10% of the time. Just my $0.02.
If you think Mercedes & BMW are doing any better than Audi right now in terms of resale, you're kidding yourself.
There was a time when MB held their value like a bank vault, but shakey build quality and questionable styling by both BMW and Mercedes have made their cars of the last 4-5 years far less desireable than the cars they made in the 90's.
What I'm really curious about is how Audi has dealt so far with the initial quality problems, i.e. the clicking from air duct motors, the "extra" CD in the armrest etc. Are they responsive or are they hanging their customers out to dry? If any of you recent owners have any insight into this, I'd appreciate your feedback.
S.
My booster seats fit fine in my automobile (not Q7) with the head restraints. One booster seat is just a couple inches thick on the bottom (like sitting on a book); with arm rests. My other booster seat has a seat back to it with a head rest, but it doesn’t reach as high as the vehicle head restraints.
I’d attempt a $30 booster seat from wal-mart before deciding to scrap the Q7 from my list.
Unless you child is big enough, the "book" style boosters are not as safe. The NHTSA has also been alerted to this problem. IT would not surprise me if the vehicle is recalled or next year the headrests are redesigned.
It’s surprising they’re not removable – or adjustable, since you’re supposed to adjust the restraint to your height.
How do you achieve the seat folding in this picture? Do the head restraints fold under? Or are the rear ones removable? These are the rear but they look similar to the 2nd row restraints.
The driver and passenger seats looks like the “regular” restraints that can be removed by pushing in the tab but the second row restraints have something different.
I still can’t imagine how the booster seat back height goes to the height of the head restraint since once you’re at that height of the vehicle head restraint you’re probably large enough to go without a booster but I’ll take your word for it. Probably not your favorite pass time “diss’n” the Audi head restraints.
I did have a Q7 (3.6) on my list as a potential mini-van replacement but never thought about booster seat accommodations; I suppose I should have.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsearch.cfm
I don't see any follow up from NHTSA so far.
Which booster do you have/use for your child? My son is still small and using a Britax Roundabout. I'm working on a new lease for a Q7 so may need to bring my seat in and try it myself.
When I first installed it I was quite shocked to see how much space it took in the Volvo, these things are quite big these days.
Anyway, you're OK with the Britax (ours is the tallest) but I don't know about booster seats for over 60 lbs (I'm sure there are enough safe and decent-looking options, I wouldn't discard the Q7 for this reason alone).
S.
See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
Well, I am growing up. And though I loved the FX, I wanted something larger and a little less extravagant (and you would have to have seen my FX... who couldn't actually). At any rate.. I do not like BMW or Mercedes... I mean, so many people own them because they are expensive. The VW T'whatever is NOT CUTE. I thought about getting another FX, but wanted to look at the Ranger Rover Sport. I drove it and loved it. I had the A-plan available, but couldn't use it because Land Rover didn't offer the incentive. It was a nice SUV. It was much softer than I thought, but still boxy. The one I wanted was a rare white on white. The Porsche.. never in my life... So back to the Audi. I believe that if you buy an Audi, it's because you choose it; not to just fall into a standard of buying an expensive vehicle... to me, it says "sexy professional." It says ME!
I had been to the dealership 2 times, and then drove it on my 3rd trip. Talk about uncompromising and alluring. Let's just say, the 1st time I drove it up Peachtree St, I almost got hit 6 times... just that mesmerizing. It's absolutely perfect in every way. I settled with the 3.6 Premium. I originally was in an S-line with 6 sits (awesome), but it didn't have all the bells and whistles. I picked out a Calla White; and as stately and commanding as it was, I was disappointed to find that he had no sunroof. That Mercedes thing has a nice roof, but the SUV is funny shaped. I would not get one without the sunroof... I ended up with Lava Gray (which is almost black)... and have limo tint, and will soon be tinting the tail lights and changing out the 19's).
With the side assist, sat. radio, rear camera, power tailgate, reclining rear seats, 4 zone climate control, adaptive lighting (really cool).. etc.. it's just the right size for me (not that I am big), I just can't explain. If you have a family, which I don't, it's not that typical "soccer mom" ride.. It's a "mommy ride with style," that won't make the kids look away when they get picked up from school. I love the LED lighting in the interior.. it sets the weirdest mood. And out of every vehicle I have ever driven, the time I drive it at night, I really felt safe. And even the the not so little 3.6 felt like my FX's 4.5 - and I was up into the 90's and never even knew it.
Side note... this is the only vehicle with puddle lights that actually illuminate where they should!
You really have to drive one.
While i'm here..I liked the car alot, except for two things. I could not sit up straight in the back seat due to lack of headroom, it is VERY tight, and when i put my left foot back in the drive's footwell, it hit this ox under the rails for the drivers seat. I have to put my seat all the way back so it sticks out alot. Does this bother anyone???? I might get used to it, but it seemed uncomfortable.
Do you mean the second row or third row? If you mean the second row, you can tilt the seat back to give you more room. That being said, I'm 6' and have no headroom issues in the 2nd row, so you must be quite tall. As for the 3rd row, I'd say it's for people 5'7" and under only.
when i put my left foot back in the drive's footwell, it hit this ox under the rails for the drivers seat. I have to put my seat all the way back so it sticks out alot. Does this bother anyone?
I've never noticed it, but I always have my left foot on the dead pedal. Personally, it sounds really uncomfortable to drive with your left foot pulled back period (rail or no rail), but then again, I had a friend who used to drive with her left foot out the window, so what do I know.
I am looking at GL450 but can't understand how mercedes can offer a car with a base price near 70K without leather standard. Its nuts!! I have also been disenchanted with the quality of the mercedes. Its been reliable, but falling apart.
I also may get suburban simply because a local chevy dealer is a very good customer of mine and i need to return favors, then i would look at A8 in about 2 years. But, i found myself intriqued by the Q7 and will take wife to dealer this week for a test drive. My accountant said to make sure its over 6000 lbs GVRW for accelerated deprecitation, which the Q7 is.
I do like to larger footwell in the Q7. I also like the feel and look of all the interior components.
As for your ML, I didn't think ML's had 3rd row seats? I know for certain that the current model doesn't and didn't think the previous generation did either, but I must be mistaken.
I'm not sure where you're getting your GL pricing from, but the ones I looked at were all under 70k with a fair number of options, including leather. That aside, it is a bit silly that you have to get things as options on the GL that are standard on other much less expensive vehicles, but the same is true of almost every luxury German vehicle, including the Q7. It's just how they configure and price them. Audi could have included the majority of the Q7 "options" as standard equipment, but then the base price would have been 7,500 - 10,000 higher. End result is the same.
I bought a 2006 Touareg and the VW dealer network isn't customer friendly. They want to sell you the car the don't have the staff to repair it. The look and drive nice, but are a headache to have serviced. This Touareg is my First and LAST VW!
1. Acadia brakes much better than a Q7
2. Acadia accelerates about the same as a Q7 (3.6L V6 ones)
3. Acadia handles about the same as a Q7
4. Q7 does have a less-harsh sounding engine note than Acadia, though.
5. Acadia gets much better fuel economy than a Q7
6. Acadia costs less than a Q7
Why buy a Q7? Only real reasons now, no crazy, emotional "German-is-better" or "prestige" crap. Just engineering-based and vehicle feel-based facts. Remember the vehicle dimensions are virtually identical in both size and weight. Braking ability and fuel economy are where the Acadia is far superior to the Audi Q7, both very important characteristics (unless you want to run into things and you want to fuel more foreign oil imports...).
Thats not the case. The Acadia out brakes the Q7 and Cayenne by far, and the Acadia skidpads at 0.78 G, very close to the Q7's expected 0.79 G. Car and Driver considers the Acadia as having "excellent" feel/handling/agility.
In any event. I bet the resale value will much lower and at the end of the day given GMs pricing model and it will cost you more to drive that car based on depreciation. Until GM proves they can build a car that holds its value, doesn't start falling apart over time, and consistently proves it has quality, I will stick elsewhere. Would love to buy American though.
If you had a purchasing cap the Acadia (or maybe the cheaper Saturn) may be the one to beat. Love the Audi though...and once in love...its hard to quantify
Probably not the proper thread here...but a comparison board may get interesting, especially with the more luxurious Buick.