Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
If Subaru comes correct with the upscale interior features and addresses the engine and the vehicle dynamics this will be one hell of a car. I am ok with these sketches, I am still waiting to see the debut but am pretty sure it gets added to the top of the prospect list:
45K Max Fully loaded is the price point.
Cadillac SRX - Very nice with discounts now
Chevy Tahoe - Pretty nice with big discounts
Honda Pilot - Top Midsize SUV Value. Lack of side airbags keeps it from being automatic.
Nissan Armada - 2005 will have new kinks worked out. Big and powerful
Nissan Pathfinder - I like this truck alot.
Saab 9-7X - Waiting to see how the Trailblazer/ Ranier rehash comes out.
Subaru B9X - Halifax / Tribecca
Volvo XC90 V8 - Nice and safe, pricey but nice
Chevy Tahoe - Pretty nice with big discounts
Honda Pilot - Top Midsize SUV Value. Lack of side airbags keeps it from being automatic.
Nissan Armada - 2005 will have new kinks worked out. Big and powerful
Nissan Pathfinder - I like this truck alot.
Saab 9-7X - Waiting to see how the Trailblazer/ Ranier rehash comes out.
Subaru B9X - Halifax / Tribecca
Volvo XC90 V8 - Nice and safe, pricey but nice
I'm assuming this is a list of vehicles one may cross-shop the B9X with. I would also include the Touareg and 4Runner, and of course, the Explorer.
While it's true the B9X will be a crossover, as more and more SUVs offer sophisticated IRS, such as the Touareg, Explorer, Pathfinder and Armada; you will see these more of them being cross-shopped with crossovers.
Bob
Equinox is the size of an MDX outside, it just has awful interior space effiency.
Passenger comfort has to be excellent in this class of vehicle. People want to sit on a throne, high up and pampered with heated seats.
Pilot actually gets side air bags for 2005. 255hp is more than what is rumored for the B9X. It's a bit loud and harsh riding, though, so there is room for improvement.
-juice
We're talking about import brand and car-based. The way I see it, the closest competitors are, in order:
* Acura MDX
* Lexus RX330
* Volvo XC90 V6
MDX is the closest match, in terms of features expected to be offered and the 7 seats.
Lexus was mentioned as a target, and the styling that pushes the envelope, and the +2 3rd row.
Pilot is not really upscale, I still don't think they offer a moonroof, and the B9X is rumored to have one standard. But it will be cross-shopped since the B9X ought to represent a good value compared to the MDX, as the Pilot does.
Touareg? Dunno, those are kinda small inside. Pricey, too.
Subaru will add the X5 but again price puts it out of reach, and X3 is too small. ML350 is also priced quite a bit higher.
MDX and RX are Asian brands, they'll be closest.
-juice
I honestly think that there will be those (me, for example) who would cross-shop the B9X with vehicles like the Pathfinder, now that it (and others like it) have become far more civilized. This would be especially true if the the B9X offers some real off-road and/or towing ability.
Bob
They will have a stretch version with a 3rd row, now that might compete with the B9X, though it'll be priced a lot higher.
Cross-shopping usually covers a wide and wild array of vehicles. I would cross shop a Miata with a B9X only because I'd then decide which vehicle I'd replace! )
-juice
In ads the Outback is compared to some Bimmers, as is the Legacy.
-juice
Many simply want:
-Can it hold 5 adults + some kids
-Where can it be serviced
-does it have enough power
-does it have creature comforts
-can 3 car seats fit in the second row.
-can it tow 3500lbs.
-cost.
-comfy for short and tall drivers.
So many people don't care about the rest. I mean sure my Tahoe can't corner very well, maybe it can't brake as fast, and the ride is different. But it does everthing else I need it to and so would just about everything else on the list.
I supose it also depends ont he priorities for each of the items I listed too.
--jay
* will it look good at the mall
* will it fit in at the country club
* will it give me bragging rights
;-)
-juice
--jay
Anyone local planning on going? We need someone with a camera to crawl all over that bad boy.
-juice
Not only is it a good feature off road, I have used it in my truck to do things like back up a trailer going up a steep hill. There are times I feel like I am straining the transmission and I put it into low and the truck just jumps. It makes a big difference in certain circumstances, even if you are not a rock crawler or heavy duty off roader.
-juice
Bob
Bob
This could be Subaru's surprise stand-out feature. The VW and Benz are priced higher so it would offer a unique advantage in the price range.
-juice
Come to think of it, they should add those to the Outback!
SLy
Any how, DVDs are so big you can't open a flyer nowadays without seeing ads for DVDs, even the local drug stores sell them now. Costco had a DVD recorder for $180.
So...B9X should have this feature, no excuses. There is room for it, the price range expects it. It would be a big hit with families.
My wife wants one on our next car. Built-in, too. Wireless headphones so we can listen to something else on the radio.
One of these days I'm going to go get that DVD recorder and start transfering our home videos to DVD format.
-juice
In reality, the miniturization (sic?) required and the LCD screens are the deep costs. Also, cost is different than MSRP. Figure a markup of 7 times to cover costs, design, overhead, et al.
You might even argue that really happened a year ago. But still.
GM made a 7" DVD standard on its minivans, and Honda offers a 9" model on the Odyssey. So Subaru should have at least a 7" screen as an option.
How much? $2000 is industry standard but seems a bit high given costs for LCDs and the players have come down (I'm sure for miniaturized components too). So I'm hoping Subaru will offer it for less.
-juice
DVD is now the standard format, and look how long it took for DVD to replace videocassettes. Blockbuster still has the latter, even.
I don't see them dropping DVD in the next 7 years. I do see them phasing out the cassettes over the next 2-3 years, however.
You have to look at the installed base. Only now has it really shifted to majority DVD.
-juice
-Brian
That's why Blockbuster still has cassettes.
-juice
Yes I know the Subaru strength and DNA is small forester trucks but this is supposed to be a crossover SUV not a off-roader. Yes the Toureag (Sp?)(Can I just say what a F###ed up name that is?)and Cayenne have those capabilities, but I think there goals were to compete a bit with the Range Rover crowd. I don't think Subaru has that intention nor could they meet that level just yet.
I will be happy to see VDC, winter mode gear setting, a great road biased load leveling suspension, bigger brakes and some engine grunt to do the chores I need.
If you ever had to pull a boat out of water or tow a boat or trailer up or down a steep gravel road, you would know why...
I don't think anybody in their right mind would take a Touareg or Cayenne truly off-road, and I'm sure 99% of them never even see dirt. Same goes for Hummers.
Actually saw an interesting test last year. They took both an H2 and a Cayenne S on a very difficult off-road course that included deep mud and water. The H2 got stuck about half way thru, the Cayenne made it all the way, to the amazement of the members of the club that owns the course.
Sly
And when I go fishing to take my boat. Oh and there were some steep forestry roads that it would help alot on when I explore them.
Eric
Bob
)
Eric
In the US market, the primary need for low range is for towing with heavy loads/steep inclines for short distances, usually on pavement, and the solution of the day is to get a 400bhp/400 ftlb engine that most buyers need once every few years, if ever. IMHO it is a rationalization, a clever manipulation promoted by the manufacturers which buyers use to justify their huge V8 Hemi. An interesting observation:In my neighborhood, the folks who live at the base of the mountain drive Cayennes, X5s and brute utes. The folks who live on top of the mountain drive Subarus and Isuzus.
A normally-aspirated H6 with VVT and a dual range tranny would be a hugely practical 5/7 seater. Practicality, rather than perception and image, actually sells a few cars.
Mark
It's interesting to note that Subaru offers it dual-range manual trannys on in their lower powered models, not their high-powered turbos. It's always been that way.
That being the case, it makes even more sense for Subaru to offer a dual-range tranny on their B9X models, as the power-to-weight ratio will likely not be that great. So for that model, as you and others have stated, a dual-range tranny (auto or manual) would make a lot of "practical" sense for those times when lower gearing would be a benefit. Now, whether a dual-range tranny would be needed if the B9X had a turbo (or hybrid assist), that's still an open question; but for at least the base H-6 engine, there's no question in my mind it would be a huge asset.
Bob
Craig
I just hope Subaru thought to include it, as our "wish list" here is now a bit late.
Bob
How the format is going to be is not yet decided but there is a strong will among the film studios and electronic makers that the format should arrive sooner rather than later. The earliest we can expect HD-DVD content is 2004 but 2005-2006 seems more like it.
DVD Forum has accepted AOD (Proposed by NEC/Toshiba) as the technical specifications used in a future read-only HD-DVD format.
However, Blue-Ray is still being developed and Columbia/Tristar (owned by Sony) has announced they will release films on Blu-Ray as early as 2005.
The Blu-ray companies say their format is better because a single-layer disc can hold about 25 gigabytes, enough to record up to three hours of high-definition TV, versus 20 gigabytes for HD DVDs. Blu-ray says the possibility of even higher capacities in the future would give its technology a longer life span.
Pilot just got a power boost to 255hp, so if the B9X does have "just" 250hp then a low range would be a smart way to get more effective torque for many situations.
And it would not hurt the EPA mileage numbers. So it might turn out to be pretty clever.
Touareg has been reasonably successful but one big complaint about it is fuel efficiency. So that plus interior space are where the B9X could really trump the VW.
-juice
I have a front projector with an 8' screen in my home-theater. On that screen, regular TV and VHS are unwatchable, DVD is very good, HDTV is breathtaking. And it is not just resolution, it is also color resolution and bit depth. HDTV has almost a 3D quality compared to DVD.
Sly
The reason for that, despite looking like a tall wagon, the Touareg is built rugged like a (very sophisticated) truck. It is very heavy, as these specs (V6, V8, V10) will show:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessio- - nid=Bu5L0ktD9mWUEBbNkLvfIfjaN0K0wmLufUeqOaaXpAZZyLSDVhkd!-1647462- - 122?styleid=100467136&styleid=100467137&styleid=100467140- - &maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=specs
Bob
~alpha
Easy. It's far cheaper than the V8 or V10. I've driven a V6 when they first came out, and it wasn't bad, as the 6-speed tip-tronic automatic is put to good use. BTW, the V6 is reportedly going to get bumped up to a 3.6L engine shortly.
But you are right, the 3.2L engine is challenged in such a heavy vehicle. In Europe it's also offered in a 2.5, 5-cylinder turbo diesel, which I'm sure is the primary seller over there.
Bob
Naturally I understand that within the Toureg line, people choose the V6 due to cost. I was more referring to why choose the V6 Toureg at a 35K price point (realistically $40K with moderate options) over more well rounded competitors (like the RX330, MDX, or LR3, for example)? I dont really buy the rugged/tough argument, as my impression of Vee Dub consumers is that they tend to tread lightly.
I dont know if the V6 is growing, but I do remember reading somewhere about a 30 or so hp gain. We'll see how that works out.
Best,
Joe
But 7"? How many pixels can there really be?
More torque would help the V6 Touareg accelerate, but I doubt it'll help mileage.
-juice
What also kills me is how big and heavy many of these European luxury SUVs (Range Rover, Porche, BMW X5) are, and then they do not even have the cargo capacity of a Forester. I've known several people buying these types of vehicles who admit they do not go offroad, but say they want 4wd for the safety (In Atlanta, with 1" of snow per year), but they also say they need these vehicles for the cargo room. What a joke. All they want is the snob appeal. Which unfortunately the B9X will not offer, even if it is a better vehicle. Which is why Subaru needs to keep the price under control.
Bob
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
I thought we were supposed to get some intentional "leaks" from our inside sources as the show nears. * hint, hint! *
I think we've hypothesized about as much as we can 'til we get some new photos or tidbits.