Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,438
    The kid didn't have that Mark for too long and as decent as it looks, it's probably fine. I think that it's the limited appeal and gas prices suppressing the price.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    This nice 1979 Newport is back. Kind of amusing to read the reasons why it's being re-listed.

    It would be a totally nonsensical purchase, considering I already have two R-bodies, but if this thing was closer, I'd definitely be bidding on it. I think driving 700-800 miles for a $1K car would be a little extreme/obsessive, though.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    Funny ad, mentioning the bidder who backed out. What do people expect for a $1K car? Pebble Beach perfection? I think it looks pretty great for a grand.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I'll beat this horse a little more. Suppose you had a '79 911 SC worth about $15,000 private party and you wanted to trade it on let's say for example a 2004 Boxster.

    Does the dealer offer you $7000? Tell you to go away and come back without the trade? Occasionally I'll see cars like this at a new dealer.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,438
    The neg feedback that the seller left was '400 LBS deadbeat buyer would not fit in car, bid up at last minute, Ebay Novice'. It sounds like a scathing feedback was deserved but the 400 pound comment is mean but funny.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, about that 400 lb comment. It was so refreshingly politically incorrect! :P I thought it was a bit ironic too, because one reason I always preferred the Chrysler R-body to its Ford/GM competition is that the driving position actually feels a bit roomier to me. I'm tall and skinny though...about 6'3" and maybe 200 lb. If you're short and chunky, and have to have the seat moved forward, then you might not have trouble fitting behind the steering wheel. Truthfully though, most cars from that era were like that, and some of the even bigger, pre-downsized cars could be even worse!

    The R-body also feels like it has longer front doors than the Ford/GM rivals, and the B-pillar is further back. So for me at least, that makes it feel like the car's easier to get in and out of, and the B-pillar isn't so much of a blind spot when I have to look to the side. And it's a unit-bodied car, so you don't have a huge door sill to step over, such as with the Ford/GM cars, where the floorpan sits between the frame rails.

    Then there's other little features, such as the deeply recessed dashboard, comparatively small tranny/driveshaft hump, and a bit less wheel well intrusion in the back seat area, which makes the R-body feel roomier to me. Roomier than their interior specs suggest.

    They're not a perfect car, not by a long shot. The GM/Ford cars were much better assembled, especially in 1979. The Lean Burn could be troublesome. The trunk is wide but shallow, and not really designed to accommodate a full-sized spare. The compact actually stows upright in a well tucked away on the right side, but the full-size won't fit there, and ends up taking up a huge amount of room right in the center. They were also rated well below GM/Ford rivals in ride and handling, although I actually prefer the firmer, less bouncy/seasick ride. Fuel economy was also worse than rivals, but on the plus side, a 360-4bbl was offered that put out 195 hp in 1979 and 185 for 1980...which is actually quite muscular for that timeframe. Although I guess that's not saying much. :blush:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A dealer doesn't want old cars. I doubt if a Porsche dealer could even fix a '79 Porsche SC. His parking lot is $$$. Every square inch of that lot has to produce a profit. Old cars are just trouble to him.

    sure if he can steal a car, he'll do it--but he'd be more likely to wholesale an old car like that if the buyer was that desperate to trade it in. They aren't appreciating classics--they are just old Porsches. I'd guess he'd offer, as you say $5K-7K trade if it were a very clean SC, then maybe stand it out on the lot for a few weeks, and if nothing happened he'd move it on out to the used car guy down the street.

    Or he'd buy it cheap for his kid, something like that.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,438
    This brings up a good question: A friend of mine is hot to get a dealers license. According to him, the average 2000 Porsche pulls $22,000 at auction and retails for $33 - 35. Fine... an easy 10 grand +. I know that guys can make good money with a dealers license but also know it's not that simple but have 0 experience with it.

    What's the whole story? What is the real experience and real expenses? How much would you really make on that $22,000 porsche?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Reminds me of some friends who told me "Those lamps in the store sell for $100, we can make them for $20. We're gonna be rich!" Didn't happen. Sure, there's money to be made, if you know what you're doing - lots of experienced dealers selling and buying cars.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    "Those lamps in the store sell for $100, we can make them for $20. We're gonna be rich!" Didn't happen. Sure, there's money to be made, if you know what you're doing - lots of experienced dealers selling and buying cars.

    LOL, that was actually a Little House on the Prairie episode, only it was wooden tables and not lamps. Didn't work for Charles Ingalls then, probably won't work for most people today. :sick:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm really skeptical of those numbers, because if there was THAT much money on the table, why would all the OTHER hungry dealers at the auction just watch it pass under their nose? Makes no sense.

    You CAN get a good deal at an auction but I always liked the saying "every car at an auction is an abandoned car" and there's some truth to that. Some are off-leases with too high residuals--they won't sell at all or the lender takes a beating--others are Porsches of questionable origin, or high mileage, or they need a recon. And a recon on a Porsche isn't cheap. One "check engine light" can wipe out your profit just like THAT!

    I think most dealers buying at auction would be happy to make $3K on a car after recon. Sure, you might make $5K, but sometimes you're going to eat it, too.

    My friend often buys late model cars at auction for himself, and he's done quite well---but the cars he bought have hardly been trouble-free, by any means.

    There's money, but it ain't "easy". And god help you if you don't know what you are doing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    Thanks fin, you got me outta here with a laugh!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,957
    maybe they would be willing to throw in the pinto wagon next to it. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay let's do the numbers!

    1969 Olds Cutlass convertible, best one in the world.....about $25,000

    Cost to restore the pile of ferrous oxide offered at $4,5000......about $60,000.

    Net profit? About a minus $39,500.

    It's not even a rare car--they made almost 14,000 of them
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Sucker doesn't even have a frame! And the '69 wasn't the popular one, anyway. The one to have is the '72. Last year for the RWD Cutlass convertible.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Right you are, the '72 is worth more.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    40mpg???

    Could be a good driver, if you don't mind buying gas

    The Cutlass seller has another fixer-upper and if one searches his location, they can find another dozen similar vehicles
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Having owned 3 (count 'em folks, THREE) Saab turbos, one of each body configuration, I can assure the audience that 40 mpg is impossible. Once we strap the seller down and shoot him up with truth serum, we'll get the real number, which will be 18-25 mpg.

    Fun cars, cheap thrills, but worst cars I have EVER owned, bar none. Even my Renault Dauphine was more reliable and my Fiats were paragons of durability in comparison.

    I don't know the Swedish word for "head gasket" and I think they didn't know it either. The convertibles were built in Finland by blind men.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    "Even my Renault Dauphine was more reliable and my Fiats were paragons of durability in comparison."

    Ouch. That's harsh.

    BTW, I spent some quality time at my favorite junkyard a couple days ago. Junkyards in MI are pretty much a desaster because of the rust. But I needed a seat belt to fit my '85 Conversion van (link:http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/conv.html) that I bought last year.

    The previous owner apparently didn't believe in newfangled safety equipment and cut off the shoulder portion of the belt. Really.

    Anyway, I found an '87 that looked ok and wasn't too filthy, and I was happy to pay them $10 for it. I tried new, but couldn't find a source for belts.

    Seeing a few hundred wrecks with various parts removed and exposed really is an eye opener to the complexity of a modern car. $15-20k for a compact to midsize four-cylinder car of high quality is an absolute steal.

    -Mathias
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Having owned 3 (count 'em folks, THREE) Saab turbos

    Masochist much?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, not a masochist--I figured "c'mon shifty, give 'em a chance! Surely THREE cars couldn't be this bad." But nooooooooooooooooo....

    I'd walk before I ever bought another 900 Turbo.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yikes that is bad. On rovers you can count on a couple of things to go bad, air suspension on older range rovers and head gaskets on anything with the rover V8, on a pretty regular basis but you rarely end up replacing everything.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They were RELENTLESS in their repairs, all three of them. Every part you can imagine would fail. I could repair one blindfolded today I'm sure. Some look at replacing a 900 Turbo alternator and say "hmmm....looks like a tough job" and I say "piece of cake, I've done it about 6 times already". I could change a clutch I bet in 45 minutes.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Did the odometers ever fail on any of your 900s? I know that the odometer was a part that was known to go bad as well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, at least one car I remember pulling the dash out for that. I wish it were all minor stuff like that!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    Hey, at least the price is right...a treasure trove for a Dauphine enthusiast (there has to be one out there somewhere)
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    "The convertibles were built in Finland by blind men."
    Is this the same crew that builds Boxters for Porsche?
    I've always been leery of Saabs with the engine sitting on top of the transmission.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's not a bad setup, rather clever--engine drives the transmission by a chain and gears---so you can change the ratios pretty easily---like a mountain bike! So the front of the engine faces the firewall. Wanna change all your drive belts? Hahahahaha.....

    But, as compensation, the clutch can be replaced without removing the transmission---you pull the transmission main shaft out toward the grille. Pretty clever---unless of course, the hydraulic slave cylinder, which is internal to the bell housing, -- a collar device that wraps around the main shaft--so if that fails, then you have to compress the pressure plate with a crow bar to get the slave cylinder and clutch disk out.

    The turbo coupes handle well---the convertibles are butt-heavy and not so good. The automatic transmissions are trash.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    http://austin.craigslist.org/car/658052898.html
    Is this a bargain or the front door to the poor house for someone long on enthusiasm?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    "Salvage title" = what? Flood car, maybe? Gotta be a lot of those around these days.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    Money pit, the V12 cars are the least desireable R129s, and for mid 90s examples they bring the least of the lineup. For 12K you could get a decent 1994-95 model with a clean title. But I wouldn't advise that either.

    I bet there's something really iffy about that title too, IIRC, the 12 wasn't offered in that car until 93.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    Fintail,
    According to Wikipedia the 600SL was not introduced until July 1992 so you are right there has to be something "iffy" about this car. I once test drove an early BMW 750 and when I opened the hood there was 3.5L 6cylinder engine where a V12 should have been. When I asked the seller about the engine he said that is how I got it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No such car, a 1990 V-12. 1991 would be the first year and that would be a Euro car.

    But whatever---not only a money pit for repairs but also a stunning 10 mpg. At $4 for premium fuel, that's .40 cents a mile to drive anywhere. That's about $5,000 a year in gasoline for the average American.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    LOL...I just had to read that ad for the Caprice wagon to my co-worker. He has an old 60's Volvo wagon and another Volvo parts car....I asked him if there's something he wasn't telling me. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I suppose for maybe half that money, the fintail could be useful to someone.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Member Posts: 374
    Strange about our experience with the Camaro - I had an '88 Trans Am with the 5.0 liter engine in Virginia - I put 140,000 miles of hard driving on that car over 10 years and it never failed me. And at the end of 10 years? Still looked showroom new - not a bit of rust on her. Had a couple of problems with fuel injectors and the alternator at about 75,000 miles that, although way out of warranty, Pontiac paid 1/2 the cost - I really have to give them credit there. Oh yeah, at about 15,000 miles the intake manifold began to leak anti freeze - seems the factory chose to save some $ that year and install them without $.05 gaskets in typpical GM cost cutting fashion. So at about 15,000 miles all these engines started leaking anti freeze all over the top of the engine - and had to be repaired under warranty - about $300 job. So save $.05, to pay out $300 in warranty repair. Makes sense to me - no wonder they are losing $$$!!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I discovered what irony is.

    I had finally given up on my '79 New Yorker, which would usually get me to work okay in the morning, but then refuse to start in the evening. I had taken it to the mechanic, and he sent the carb off to get rebuilt.

    Well, he called me at work today and told me it was ready to pick up. I asked him if I could drop off my 2000 Intrepid, which would occasionally stall out on me, but would always fire back up, and never triggered the check engine light. He said that, unless it actually died, or the light came on, there wasn't anything he could do, as he didn't want to waste time and run up my repair bill replacing potential trouble parts at random. How refreshing is that...an honest mechanic! :P Actually, I shouldn't say that, because there are plenty of them still out there. It had gotten really bad with me when I tried to use it to drive up for Spring Carlisle. I only got about 2 miles from home when it died, started back up very reluctantly, so I limped it back home. And wouldn't you know, it hadn't acted up since then.

    Well, about 10 minutes after talking to the mechanic, I walked out to the parking lot. And wouldn't you know it...that damn Intrepid refused to start!

    I had a friend come pick me up and take me to the mechanic to get the NYer, and it's running beautifully. Odd, that the mechanic would say that he didn't want to mess with the car unless it actually died, and it refuses to start 10 minutes later. And even more annoying, the Intrepid did today exactly what that NYer used to do. Get me to work with no trouble at all, but then refuse to start back up and leave me stranded! I wonder if it'll fire up tomorrow morning? That's what my NYer would do. I'd leave it overnight at work, drive something else the next morning, and then hop in the NYer and it would fire right up so I'd drive it back home and then get one of my roommates to run me back to work.

    Maybe I need a priest to perform an exorcism on my Mopars?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    That Intrepid just isn't you anyway - too new and too modern. How much could you get for it once it is back into top running shape, and what could you buy with that amount?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Well, I just did the Edmunds TMV calculations. For an "average" 2000 Intrepid base model with 140,000 miles, they list tradein at around $600 and private party at around $1100. For "clean", they go up to about $1100 for tradein and $1800 for private party.

    So, not much, really. Once I get it running again (presuming it's a relatively cheap repair), I'll probably just keep it until something major goes wrong with it. Or, if it starts getting unreliable and constantly breaking down. One thing I'll say for the Intrepid, is that this is the first time in its life that it's actually left me stranded. It came close two Fridays ago, but it did finally re-start, and I just turned around, went back home, and got another car.

    In terms of newer cars, there's really nothing out there that excites me enough to get back into a car payment. So if the car ends up being not worth fixing, I think I'll just unload it and rely on my older cars for awhile. I'm only pulling maybe 5,000 miles per year these days, mostly local, so they should be able to handle it.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Never mind. $1100? For a car where you know the history, you can't go wrong keeping it.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,800
    Well, I can't profess to know anything about this particular car, andre, but it sure sounds like a stuck cold-start valve or MAF sensor. I suggest disassembling the MAF and cleaning it very well for starters.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    La Dawri -- nasty looking motor in that car (not meant as a compliment).

    1980 Datsun -- earth to seller, earth to seller. come in...come in....

    81 Merc SD -- looks like an okay deal---price is sober, and he didn't even lie about the miles per gallon--a very good sign.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    I particularly love the top right picture.
    http://lansing.craigslist.org/car/672019177.html

    Ya gots to wonder how many of these made it past 300k... that's quite a recommendation for this model right there.

    Regarding the orange Benz: Around that time, Mercedes' came in more standard colors than any other maker... they were quite proud of this... but you didn't necessarily want any of them.

    The joke was ".. in allen Sanitaerfarben erhaeltlich" -- available in all bathroom hues...

    German automakers love to charge beaucoup $$$ for any colors that actually look good. Metallic -- extra. Pearl --- even more. "Signalfarben" -- like that Benz: In the 70s, a red car cost extra, too.

    -Mathias
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Wow! 300K on a BMW V-12!!!

    I'd wager a hefty sum that the repair and maintenance bills on that car are as thick as the Manhattan phone book.

    Hmmm....I wonder what a catalytic costs for a BMW V-12...lemme check here....(flip, flip).

    Aha! Cheaper than I thought; Only $2,020 per side (2 required) plus $300 labor.

    So for only $4,400 or so you are up and running.

    Edmunds True Market Value puts the value of the car, running and in "average" condition, with a mileage deduct of a mere $500 bucks, at $2,000 retail, so if you buy it for $1,900 and put $4,400 into it.....

    Hey WAIT A MINUTE!

    Do you realize what I've just done? I've proven that this car is worth NOTHING. :)

    It's free, go get it!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,159
    And how much do you want to bet two cats don't cure that 750's 'runs rough' :sick:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,647
    I suspect most of those cars were pretty shot at 100K.

    Speaking of MB colors, Here's a gallery of all W126 colors - an impressive variety indeed, and many are less than lovely.

    Even today metallic is an extra cost option on most MB. Funny how you can blow 60K on a car and pay more for metallic paint. Then again, nav is still an option on some 90K models, so it goes with the territory.
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