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But probably not this oddball
And on the brown car idea, I have seen period Porsches in brown too...a whale tail 911 and a 924 (well, it's badged Porsche anyway) come to mind.
I remember an episode of CHiPS that featured a brown 70s Rolls, too. A brown Rolls Royce. That's just not right.
A much better driver than you'd guess from those numbers...
-Mathias
He's definitely interested, and we exchanged contact info. This guy looks to be about in his 50's, was driving a mid-to-late 90's Dodge Ram, and is a Mopar guy. So he knows what he's getting himself into.
So with any luck, it'll be gone in a week or two!
With 183k 'easy' miles, this is overpriced, right?
Maybe a decent driver
I'd buy it for $5,000 bucks, about the cost of a luxury car lease for a year. Then if it dies, I can just walk away if I got a good year's use out of it.
Given that the predicted reliable lifespan of any modern car is about 225,000 miles at the very best (you rarely see cars with more than that, or if you do, they have a hefty stack of repair bills), this car is about 4/5th done for. So I'd pay 1/5th of top retail for it.
Shifty is right about how to buy a miled up old MB - cheaply. There's a mid 90s SL600 with about 100K on it in the parking garage of my building - it could be had for 10K. But I wouldn't risk it.
If I were buying that 600SL, I'd spend all day playing with every gadget, working those switches, windows, vents, lights, then spend $300 bucks to have the car gone over like it was getting an army physical. That would certainly improve your odds. People just don't test these cars properly prior to buying them.
I even check for sneaky stuff, like warning light bulbs being removed (which is evil, BTW).
Gas being what it is, I'd probably just sit in it and work the steering wheel like kids do with those suction cup ones.
The Slim Jim was smaller than the old 4-speed Hydramatic, so that resulted in a different floorpan with a smaller transmission hump for Slim Jim cars. So I guess if you wanted to swap in one of those older ones, it would be quite a chore. I wonder how hard it would be to swap in a later THM400?
diesel RX-7
the engine was from a chevette
Yeah, I always thought it was amazing that the world's first automatic transmission, way back in 1939, had 4 speeds! I'm not sure why, exactly it got dropped. While it had 4 speeds, it used a fluid coupling and not a torque converter. I'm not sure, but I think 3 speeds with a torque converter is considered better than 4 speeds without one. Maybe someone who's more mechanically inclined could explain it?
I think the old 4-speed Hydramatic was a sturdy, reliable transmission, but it was also big. Once they started lowering floorpans, it took up a lot of space inside the car. For some reason, Pontiac Bonnevilles and Star Chiefs stuck with the old 4-speed Hydramatic from '61-64, while the Catalina, Grand Prix, and Oldsmobiles went with the 3-speed/torque converter Slim Jim. The difference in transmission hump size is really noticeable.
I'd guess the Slim Jim was cheaper to build, and lighter as well, so it probably sapped less power from the engine. It wasn't as reliable as the old transmission though, and I've heard it's really expensive to rebuild. The later THM400 transmission, which I think started getting phased in in 1964, was a much sturdier transmission, and pretty cheap and easy to rebuild. I dunno how it compared to the old 4-speed tranny, though.
To mitigate the roughness, the '50 Olds started in second gear, unless you manually moved the lever to low. Maybe the thinking was that the Rocket engine had so much torque that this delivered a good tradeoff between smoothness and acceleration, whereas the Pontiac, with its less powerful flathead straight sixes and eights, needed that low gear for off-the-line grunt. I'm only guessing here, though. Cadillacs didn't adopt the Olds second gear starts, but, for whatever reason, their first to second gear shifts felt smoother than the Pontiac's. It might have had to do with the the fact that Cadillacs were quieter and heavier, but I'm not certain about this, either.
In 1956 Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs, and the more expensive Pontiacs (the Star Chiefs, I believe) were equipped with a new version of the 4-speed Hydramatic. The good news was that the shifts were much smoother, but the tradeoff was greater slippage. The dual range feature was retained. Lower line Pontiacs continued with the older Dual Range Hydramatic.
As for the Slim Jim Hydramatic, the shift action was rather quirky, in terms of feel, but I think this transmission was reasonably durable. For example, my family had a '63 Olds Dynamic 88 4 door hard top, purchased new, that went ~94,000 without any transmission problem. Except for the color, our family's '63 was very similar to that green one that's been the focus of discussion. I would add that our car was not babied. It was eventually traded because of rust, but the transmission never gave a bit of trouble, and it performed just fine over the entire six years my family owned it. I'm not even sure whether the transmission fluid had ever been changed. Now a sample of one doesn't prove that the Slim Jim Hydramatic was durable, but it may help mitigate some concerns about it.
MB used a Borg-Warner unit before the first in house model, I have heard those are less durable than the later units such as in my car.
GMC used the old Hydramatic in its trucks through 1962 before dumping them for Powerglides and TH400s. Supposedly, the old 4-speed had a reputation for leaking and breaking flexplates behind the GMC V6.
It wouldn't be at all surprising if the Hydramatic served as the model for the MB automatic. In addition to the Olds, Pontiac, and Cadillac cars, many of the WWII GMC military trucks that saw service in Europe were equipped with Hydramatic transmissions. I'm sure that the German military captured some of these. The absence of a clutch pedal, and the other features of this transmission, at a time when automatic transmissions were non existent in Europe, must have been a real curiosity for the German military staff, to say the least. It would be hard to imagine that they didn't disassemble some Hydramatics. I'd guess that they would have been impressed with the technology and the performance of these transmissions.
Actually, that is a breath of fresh air to hear of a good experience with the Slim Jim. One of my favorite 60's Pontiacs is the '61...for some reason I just love the style of that grille. But I always figured if I was going to hunt one down one day, it would have to be a Bonneville rather than a Catalina, because of that transmission.
But even if I got one with the Slim Jim, chances are the car's just going to be a limited-use toy. It's not like I'd have to depend on it to get me 15-20,000 miles per year. So if I were to find one in decent shape, it would probably have a good, long life with me.
In an odd sort of way, the quirky qualities of the Slim Jim could even be somewhat endearing... as unique and odd things can sometimes be. That's not to say I'd choose a Slim Jim over other Hydramatics, because I wouldn't, or that it's peculiarities would be acceptable in a modern car, because they definitely wouldn't be, but I wouldn't pass up a classic car I liked because of this transmission.
Insofar as driving it 15,000-20,000 miles per year, at $4+/gallon, the fuel expense would make any V8 from this era a really bad choice.
Heck, if it made any noises that were too annoying, well that's what radios are for. Or, since something like this would only have AM, I guess a portable boom-box would suffice.
And yeah, at $4.00 or so per gallon, driving something like this 15-20K miles per year would be back-breaking!
Virtually every car we discuss on this forum has some nuances that need to be explained. If that weren't the case we'd have far fewer than 14040 messages, and many overlapping topics. And, worst of all, Shifty would be out of a job.
The DeSoto and Olds both weighed about the same, around 3900 lb base weight, and had similar hp. 200 for the DeSoto, 202 for the Olds. I guess this could show one advantage of the Hydramatic's 4 forward speeds, compared to only 2 for the Powerflite? Another difference though, could have been displacement. The DeSoto used a fairly small-displacement 291 Hemi, while the Olds used a bigger 324 Rocket V-8, so it probably had a torque advantage. Also, I don't remember what axle ratios the cars had. I'd guess the DeSoto had around a 3.54:1...at least that was common in the '57 Mopars with the 2-speed automatic. With the 3-speed, a 3.31:1 was standard, but I'm sure a whole slew of other ratios were available.
While it couldn't compete with the new V8s of the day on performance, the Ambassador 6 was an excellent engine. It had overhead valves and seven main bearings, for smoothness and durability. It also delivered good fuel economy for its time. The more popularly priced Statesman model had a smaller displacement, lower cost, five main bearing flathead design. Performance was modest, but fuel economy was best-in-class, or close to it, when equipped with overdrive manual. Another independent model, the Studebaker Champion, also was renowned for its fuel economy, especially with overdrive.
America produced the world's best popular priced cars for many decades, through the '50s, and, arguably, even through the early '60s. While exports were never a significant percentage of domestic production, for much of this period the U.S. exported more cars and trucks than it imported. American cars enjoyed a reputation for quality, style, and comfort in many countries.
Actually, when you consider that those hp ratings were gross, those acceleration times weren't too bad. 200 hp gross is probably the equivalent of around 150 net, and I wouldn't be surprised if 140 gross is only around 105-110 net.
24 years later, Consumer Reports tested three big cars...an LTD with a 129 hp 302, a Caprice with a watered-down 135 or so hp 305, and a St. Regis with a 135 hp 318. This time, the 0-60 times were around 13.5 for the LTD, 15.4 for the Caprice, and a pathetic 15.9 for the St. Regis!
Ahh, progress. :P
Well, its just simple physics. Something that size has a pretty strong gravitational field.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Could be a good driver if it isn't rusty
Must be uncommon as a manual
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Not to mention the whole "Hot Wheels" look is downright cartoonish.
Weird. :confuse:
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
What kind of person spends thousands of dollars to make his vehicle ride, handle, accelerate, and brake worse, and simultaneously get poorer guel economy???
Oh, I forgot. It looks kewl. :lemon:
When I become the Grand Imperial Dictator for Life, I will proclaim that all vehicles with raised ride height be restricted to off-road use only. Penalty for first offence: confiscation of vehicle. :P
james