Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lokki · October 2008

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

Comments:

74 MGB-- last good year, price is okay if car is not full of bondo or rust. Parts are plentiful and cheap, value likely to increase. Simple to fix with pliers and duct tape. Fun, forgiving car to drive. Plan to get wet in the rain. It will drip right in the middle of your left thigh, and inside your left shoe.

80 Alfa -- again look for rust, Is this SPICA injection or Bosch? That could make a difference. Bosch preferred even though it delivers less power. Price is okay but we need to look more at that top. Drives like a Lexus next to an MGB. Parts no problem, good mechanics a problem.

BMW 325i -- soft top is very problematic and can be $$$ to fix. Requires detailed scrutiny. Probably the bar working the hard lid that covers the top has broken (once again). Top design on this car is atrociously bad. But stickshift appeals. Definitely worth a look. Plan on screwing with the top for eternity.

2000 Miata -- sounds like a real good deal if the car checks out. Just turn the key and drive for the next two million miles and spend about .50 cents fixing it.

98 Camaro -- no way, absolutely no way. This car is barbaric.

boomchek · October 2008

Column E: green MGB
Column G: 92 BMW convertible
Column I: Fiat 124
Column J: classic Dastun, although I'd find out why it's sagging in the back like it's got no engine in the front. If it's not good, then I'd take the Miata
Column U: Camaro Convertible

What happened to columns F, H, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T?

lokki · October 2008

What happened to Columns F, H, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, and T?

E= England
G=Germany
I=Italy
J=Japan
U=USA

I didn't know what countries to fill in for F, H, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, and T.....

And remember, they have to have a old convertible with a manual that's potentially available for Lokki's garage for about $5K.

I won't be able to do it for a year or two (If I say Wife and Toy, you can fill in the rest), but I'm starting to muse about a Hobby Car.

I'd really like a Datsun 2000 convertible(wanted one for years) , but I don't know if they're

a. practical
b. fun to drive

I threw in the Americans to be open minded, but I don't think I could stand either of them to tell the truth. Too big and clumsy for my taste - but I tried to be nice :shades:

lokki · October 2008

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/891301221.html

It's time to SELL!

boomchek · October 2008

I didn't know what countries to fill in for F, H, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, and T.....

Ahh I get it:

Here's some suggestions:

F: France: Convertible Peugeots, Renaults, and what not
H: Hungary: Some VW are made there I think: Cabrio 5 speed.
K: Korea: Chop the top off a Hyundai Scoupe or Tiburon
L: Lebanon: imported MB SL convertible
M: Montenegro: Yugo convertible?
N: Nepal: horse and buggy convertible
O: Oman: ??
P: Poland: hack job Fiat convertibles
Q: Qatar: Humvee?
R: Russia: A Russian owns TVR, convertible and manual tranny

S: Sweden: Saab 93 Convertible, they came in stick
T: Taiwan: knock off of every convertible at a fraction of the price :P

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

More Comments

little Spitfire is nice but at that price it should not need engine work

Fiat 124 -- no, absolutely not.

Datsun 2000 Roadster -- nice little cars but very hard to get parts and rather odd looking duck. It gets no respect.

Mustang convertible -- over one billion sold!

qbrozen · October 2008

Miata
'92 bimmer
Datsun
MGB

in that order.

I wouldn't touch any of the others at those prices.

explorerx4 · October 2008

don't see one of these every day

must be double dodge day

needi audi

when an H1 isn't enough

is this a good deal?

low mileage?

it's RED

2 fer chevies

trouble times 444

andre1969 · October 2008

I always liked those old military trucks. I wonder what company was building them by 1975? I think Kaiser built some of them, and so did Diamond-T, but I'd imagine both of those names were gone by '75.

qbrozen · October 2008

What a [non-permissible content removed]!

As he says in the ad "Enzos have been selling for $1.3 to $1.5 million," yet he turns down an offer of $951K for a salvaged one! WOW!!

oregonboy · October 2008

From his perspective, that offer was almost a 1/4 million shy of his asking price.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

He's blowing smoke. Current value is about $1 million, maybe = or - $150K. This is October 2008 remember?

You are correct, he was a dumbnuts for turning down that offer. The car is heavily stigmatized. Only a fool would buy it anyway. I'd guess the car isn't worth much over $500,000.

fintail · October 2008

That Audi is a money pit. It has a lot of needs and high mileage for that money. It also appears to be sitting a little low...doesn't bode well.

Were those 40s looking Dodge trucks really made into the mid 60s?

jlflemmons · October 2008

Is that the Enzo that a dumbass showboat smacked into a wall just as he took off? Seems I saw a video about that somewhere.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

the very same. Actor/Comedian Eddie Griffin. The word is already out on the Ferrari hotlines. The car will never escape this notoriety for the rest of its existence. They only made 399 of them (plus one for the Pope!) so it's not going to be hard to track.

I'm sure the buyer will feel great going to Ferrari events and hearing "oh, you bought the one that was cracked up".

boomchek · October 2008

oh, you bought the one that was cracked up".

That and the fact that it might be scary driving a supercar with a salvage title at breakneck speeds.

What if it hasn't been fixed properly, or alignment is out of whack forever, or the underbody aerodynamics are off by a few inches and will cause your supercar to tilt/lift or be unstable at anything over 100mph?

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

There are actually only a handful of authorized and qualified shops to fix a car like this, so I wonder who did the work. There's a place in LA that does them, and crack-ups from around California are often flat-bedded there. People are smashing up Ferraris all the time. They don't know what they are doing, some of them. But then these are the same types that smash up Vipers and Corvettes.

Really, without serious training, you shouldn't be doing over 130 mph in a straight line and shouldn't even be on a race course with a car like this at any speed.

lokki · October 2008

Why settle for a wrecked one put back together almost as good as new? I would bet that in today's economy, there are a lot of rich kids who usually live off investment income who are looking for some unnecessary assets to liquidate. The spare house isn't going to bring as much as it cost to buy, so I figure that a good percentage of those 398 Enzos are going to be coming to the market over the next several months.

With that in mind, I was looking to see how much competition for my affection this Gorilla-Glue-special is facing when I stumbled across this link:

http://jalopnik.com/400068/exclusive-texas-man-rebuilds-15-million-ferrari-enzo-- - destroyed-by-eddie-griffin

For those not in the mood to follow links - here's the money quote from my point of view:

From February of 2008:
Here's the story: When the car got wrecked last March, I got a half a dozen calls from customers/friends asking me if I was going to buy the car? This is our business: We buy damaged high line cars. Not necessarily the celebrity cars, but they seem to own many of these type cars so it comes with the territory. My response to them at the time was "I doubt it since the whole world knows about the car."
Echos of Mr. Shiftright's wisdom there, eh?

lemmer · October 2008

Are there really Enzo bottom feeders out there? Poor old guys who can scrape together a measly $1.0 but not $1.2 million.

Qbrozen,

Did we scare away Graphicguy? He seems to have disappeared soon after the RX8 questions came up.

qbrozen · October 2008

I don't think so. At least I hope not. He's disappeared for a while before. He seems to attend the boards in spurts.
I told him through email we were just having fun and weren't trying to sling mud or anything. I've always enjoyed his company on the board.

explorerx4 · October 2008

thanks for the link to the ferrari story. i couldn't see any pictures where i could see if the airbag went off. maybe they just removed it before putting the car on display.
in some of those pictures, i feel like the car has kind of a christine vibe to it.

speaking of projects, i saw this on the same page:
a real project car

boomchek · October 2008

Wow! Good Lambo project story!!!! Thanks for the post.

This guy must have been really focused to actually get it finished and to do it in the basement.

I am guessing that 50%-75% of all home based "project cars" never get finished, and usually end up being sold because the owner "gave up" or "wife hates it"

bumpy · October 2008

The "military-style" Power Wagons kept that antique body until domestic sales ended in 1968, but the PW name was also used on regular Dodge 4x4 trucks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Power_Wagon

fintail · October 2008

I didn't know they kept the antique style body so long. I knew a kid in high school who had a 60s PW, but it had a normal period body.

fintail · October 2008

"This car is a discontinued project" = "Should be roadworthy with 15 or 20 years work"

Battleship

Decent looking sport sedan

PZKW VI

Amusing

"classic workhorse"

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

MGA --- sure, spend $40,000 to restore a $20,000 car....go ahead....

64 Olds 98 Convertible -- price seems more than fair or at least market correct unless it's a rusted out, puking, totally worn out, oil-belching, trans-slipping rodent of a car. Clean and shiny driver running well with no major problems should be worth $10K-12K.

95 CL500 Benz -- money pit. Better to take stacks of 100 bills and throw them in the wood stove.

Turbo Corolla -- what does that mean, the car needs "TABS"?

85 Saab 900 -- well at least it isn't a turbo, so it might be reasonably reliable, but the automatic transmission is about as strong as a Christmas tree ornament. This would be a great car to buy cheap, install a 16V turbo motor and convert to 5 speed manual transmission. They are very handy hatchbacks. Or drive it just like it is, don't touch it, and when the transmission dies, just park it. Price is fair enough if it has no issues.

andre1969 · October 2008

What would be a reasonable price for that '64 Impala 4-door hardtop? I might be influenced by the ridiculous prices I see at Carlisle and such, but it actually seems reasonable to me.

That Olds 98 would have the "slim jim" automatic, right? Those things have always scared me because of horror stories I've heard, but I guess if it's in good condition, you might be okay since most people aren't going to buy something like this and depend on it as a daily driver. I wonder though, if the tranny acts up, if it would be feasible to swap in a THM350 or 400? The floorpan on the slim jim cars was shaped differently from the 4-speed Hydramatic cars, because the slim jim was smaller. I wonder how big the THM350/400 units are, compared to the slim jim?

boomchek · October 2008

Ooooh, I like that CL500, looks really nice. I bet maintenance to keep it running ain't cheap. Still I think it's a reasonable price for it.

The sleepr Corolla is funny. I bet it's fast but I can't see it appealing to anyone except the original owner.

And yes, what does it means when it needs TABS? Is it something to do with insurance or registration in WA?

texases · October 2008

"Needing TABS" is needing to get the registration up to date so you can put those little stickers (TABS) on the license plate, I think.

oregonboy · October 2008

No, no, no... "Tabs" refers to cases of Tab diet soda, placed in the trunk to improve traction in overpowered RWD cars. It's an old street-racer trick! :shades:

qbrozen · October 2008

I bet it's fast but I can't see it appealing to anyone except the original owner.

And me.

I would deifnitely take a look for a track car. And the fact that it was done by a pro and receipts available helps alot. Oh, and the fact that he's not asking $12,500 "because that's what I have in it."

texases · October 2008

"Fiat 124 -- no, absolutely not. "

You got me wondering - how do 124s compare to the Alfa Spyder/Spider/whatever, in general? Knowing next to nothing, they seem similar...

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

A common misconception due to the current alliance of Alfa being owned by Fiat.

But in days gone by, Alfa Romeos were always more expensive than, and better-made than Fiats, which were by and large entry-level cars built on the cheap.

As time went on, Fiat corrupted both Alfa and Lancia.

If say you took apart a 70s Alfa engine and a 70s Fiat engine, you'd see how the metal, the machining, the castings, etc. are all so much better in the Alfa. To say nothing of the upholstery, sheet metal thickness, and quality of sourced components.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

'64 Impala 4-door hardtop?

Oh I guess a "clean driver" would sell for $5K-$8K.

A 2-door hardtop would be worth at least 50% as much if not more.

Very few collectors want 4-door hardtops by choice; some buy them because they can't find affordable 2-doors in the make and style they like (such as '61 Impalas (the "bubbletop" you always hear about).

Consequently the rule applies "what gets you in cheap comes back to haunt you when you sell". Unloading a 4-door hardtop isn't easy if you want a good price for it.

The only 4-door hardtop I ever saw that didn't look like a botched up 2-door hardtop (I mean, that didn't look like it was trying too hard) was the '65 Corvair, of all things. That was one good-looking 4-door hardtop and probably worth as much as a 2D.

boomchek · October 2008

I didnt think of it as a track car, but yes, definetly possible.

But wouldn't a modified motor with a Turbo put you in a higher up category with other probably better perfrorming cars?

fintail · October 2008

I think that's a very nice looking C140. A money pit for sure, but not nearly as much as a C215, and it's a lot cheaper than one. It's still a good amount of car for the money.

I think the Impala seems like a fair price, as Andre mentions. Not a bad looking boat.

Tabs is a WA state term for the yearly registation stickers attached to the license plate.

qbrozen · October 2008

higher up category? yes.
better performing cars? depends.
I'd have to figure out what class if I was truly going to purchase. But there is always a better mousetrap, right? By sheer aftermarket support, a turbo Civic HX would probably be a better bet, but then you wouldn't be unique like this corolla, either.

lokki · October 2008

I wish you hadn't just said, "what gets you in cheap comes back to haunt you when you sell".

In another year or so, I'm going to have a lot more time than money. I mean, how many spanners could a man need to finish this?

http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/867611372.html

What would be the odds of being able to put a Z3 drivetrain (including the rear suspension) in this puppy?

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

Oh I wouldn't mess with the drivetrain in the TR6. That torquey six is what gives it characters and it's a sturdy enough engine. The 1976 is not the handsomest of cars (nor is a Z3 for that matter) but they are fun to drive. Basic issues are the usual British stuff (electrics) but there is a tendency of the differential mount to rip itself out of the chassis, thereby sending your entire differential assembly on a different course than the rest of the car might be pursuing at that moment.

So the Z3 drivetrain wouldn't solve that problem, but rather make it worse. I do agree though that another straight-6 implant is the way to go if that's your thing.

As for THIS particular car, seems pricey at $5K. You can buy the world's most gorgeous TR6 for $25,000 and win trophies with it, and I don't think you're going to get from this pile of parts to a trophy for $20,000.

texases · October 2008

Speaking of old British iron, how would you suggest someone learn the care and feeding of SU carbs on a '68 MGB? Not me, unfortunately!

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

Oh SUs are easy. Haynes makes a nice book, or used to. I mean, there are only 3 moving parts in an SU carburetor. How hard is that? :surprise: The problem with SUs is the people who work on them, not the carburetors. The carbs themselves are brilliant I think. They only went out of fashion because they could not meet emissions standards for one thing, and they also don't work so well with larger displacement engines.

All you need to know is a) how to spot a worn throttle shaft b) how to spot and replace a worn metering jet and c) how to count to 12.

texases · October 2008

"The problem with SUs is the people who work on them"

That's the problem here, I want to point them to something that might help the 'mechanically challenged'. I'll let them know about the Haynes book.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

Haynes Manual For SU, Weber and Brand X

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

you guys like this or ????

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/1049169957.html

I could maybe live with it. Price needs adjustment however.

texases · October 2008

Thanks, I'll let them know...hope they're willing to find something out, instead of being told what to do...

Mr_Shiftright · October 2008

You know, 9 times out of then, if they'd just a) run the jet adjustment upward until it homes, then back off 12 faces of the nut and b) balance the two carbs and c) static time the car, it will probably run like a dream.

fintail · October 2008

I got me a car, it seats about 20

I like the parking space

You can't be serious

Uncommon color

qbrozen · October 2008

I dig the caddy.

But what the hell does "relatively straight" mean?
"Hey, its relatively glass-like ... compared to the water's surface in the Gulf of Mexico during hurricane season."

jlflemmons · October 2008

No kidding. Where exactly would you drive that beast? That is about the same width as a travel trailer, and having pulled one of those all over the state, I am here to tell you that even in big 'ol Texas there are places where that would be an issue.

Cool looking. Give it to a museum.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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