Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail · November 2008

I'll say from what I can gather from the actions and words of passersby when I drive the fintail, it gets as much attention and admiration as a high end modern car. I doubt the average new Bentley driver gets many thumbs up, waves, kids pointing at it, etc. A mint W116 might not get that reaction, but it's still a classy looking old beast...even with the horrible US-spec bumpers.

I don't let valets park my car either...never had the chance come up in the fintail (I bet that car would confuse them or they'd injure it) and the E55 might tempt someone into at least chirping the tires.

I have questioned why I have this loyalty to MB, even though I don't buy them new. I like the styling, I like the heritage, I like how they feel when driven - there is some kind of dynamic links between old and new models, this was especially true in my fintail vs W126. I'd rather have a car that looks a little sinister than one that simply looks rich...and a MB sedan fits that too, thanks to Hollywood.

lemmer · November 2008

The 4 car guy is an idiot of some kind.

Perfect comment. I am not sure what kind of idiot he is, but clearly he is some kind of idiot.

qbrozen · November 2008

see, now, I like the S2ks and the Z3s .... but THIS makes me drool.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Color's good, miles are good...but...it's not an S after all, so you'd best drive one to make SURE you don't mind....

qbrozen · November 2008

Right. Well, they didn't start the S until 2000, so any of those first few years only came as the "base" model.

The 2.5 still gets it to 60mph in about 6.5 secs. I don't suspect that will be much of a problem. The S model only shaved about .7 secs off of that. Handling-wise ... well, that can always be tweaked. I would imagine it would still spank my G35X around the track.

Interesting to note, however, that the 2000 base model got bumped to a 2.7 engine and lost ~30 lbs, yet, according to edmunds, didn't get any faster.

bumpy · November 2008

Yeah, it's all good and fun until the engine grenades on you. :surprise: :mad:

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

I don't agree with those numbers at all. If they were true, my friend's Porsche operation would be rebuilding Boxster engines like crazy, but they aren't.

I think the issue is with early cars, and I think even 3-5% would be high.

I do agree, though, that Boxsters were not built like 911s. Half the price, half the mileage? :P

If you want a REAL Porsche engine problem, look at the 911 twin turbos. I'd bet serious money you won't see the far side of 60,000 miles without issues.

I'm also amused that people will track their cars and Drive to Win, but they won't "Spend to Win".

bumpy · November 2008

Well, aside from Nissan and Toyota, who has managed to build a highbrew twin-turbo that didn't blow up a lot?

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Certainly not Mazda!

lemmer · November 2008

I've read a lot of stuff on the various Boxster engine issues. The general consensus seems to be once you make it past around 50,000 miles, you probably have a solid engine and you are home free.

lemmer · November 2008

Back in the day, the 300ZX, Supra, and RX-7 were considered superior to the C4 Vette. I still like the Japanese cars better. But...if I needed 300 reliable and cheap hp - Supras go for $25K and the RX-7s are total hand grenades. The 300ZX TT is the best compromise, but to me the added complication and cost of the turbos makes the normally aspirated version a much better pick.

So, all of this gets me thinking about C4s. Good old American horsepower. No turbo lag, no trying to stay on boost, and an engine compartment that you can stick a wrench into if need be. More importantly, a replacement engine is cheaper than a turbo job on the Japanese cars. I'm not big on the interior or the Corvette image, but man these are a lot of car for the money.

texases · November 2008

"you probably have a solid engine and you are home free."

Hahahahaha - "free"..."Porsche" :P

lemmer · November 2008

OK, home free with $100 a month in normal maintenance expenses. But no new $12,000 crate engine required.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Actually I can get you a crate engine for about $9,000, a real bargain. :P

I'll call around and see if I can get the real scoop on these early Boxster engines.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

C4s -- I was digging into this possibility myself some months ago, and yes, they are a lot of car for the money, but when you read up on build quality and reliability, you wonder if it's also a lot of money for the car. My overall impression after sifting through the evidence is that yes you can go fast for cheap but plan on breaking down a lot. On the other hand, you can get most of your parts at Autozone.

michaellno · November 2008

Posted:

Jeepster Ad

Though I learned a little something about craigslist ... it seems they won't let me post the same ad to the Wyoming cl site as well.

S'ok; I figure more people will see it in the Denver edition. All it takes is one, I suppose.

Any other thoughts as to where I should post this .. I'm not quite ready to go the Ebay route yet.

fintail · November 2008

Just modify a few sentences and the CL system will let you post multiple ads.

You could use autotrader too.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Just register with a new name for craiglist WYO or change the wording of your ad, especially the header.

Put an ad in Hemmings Motor News (www.hemmings.com) for as little as $15, and in www.autotraderclassics.com, for $49 for a month with a photo.

If those 3 don't work, then you are priced too high for sure.

boomchek · November 2008

qbrozen....If you need info on Boxsters, go to the Stories from the Sales Frontlines column, and ask "madmanmoo" about them. He sells new and used Porsches. I'm sure he can tell you about reliability and issues on them.

qbrozen · November 2008

Thanks, boom. I may be mistaking him for another, but I believe he may be relatively new to the Porsche selling game.

In any case, if I do get serious about it (or, should say, if I'm allowed to), I will be sure to do my homework.

fintail · November 2008

Off-roader

Maybe popular in Wasilla nowadays

Malaise Super Sport

You can't be serious

Big bird

Slow and steady...or just slow and slow

Amusing mpg claim and retina-burning add on trim

boomchek · November 2008

Reliant: "great collector's item" except it has no collector value as it doesn't even come with original running gear. Then he gives a writeup of a model 9 years newer that describes engine choices his doesn't even come with. :confuse:

I like the Maverick... but I think it's a bit overpriced for what it is.

The Olds Aurora.. "all emblems removed"... there were a grand total of 2 or 3 emblems on the Aurora. I remember when the car came out there was no "Oldsmobile" emblem anywhere on the car. I always liked the shape of the Auroras though, and the Intrigues for that matter.

fintail · November 2008

I think the Reliant is actually a 1983...bit it can't be worth more than the change in my pocket, especially in that condition.

The Aurora was a good last gasp for Olds.

jlflemmons · November 2008

I did a tune up on one of these. Once. Told the guy never to call me again. You almost have to pull the engine to change the 3rd plug on the drivers side. My hands looked like hamburger by the time I got through.

Just cause you can make it fit, doesn't mean you should. :sick:

texases · November 2008

"You almost have to pull the engine to change the 3rd plug on the drivers side."

My dad was pragmatic in those situations - he'd torch a hole in the offending sheetmetal!

qbrozen · November 2008

Curious what Shifty (and others) thinks of this one.

Targa is a negative point to begin with. Looks like it may have been sitting for a while, too. Very little info being provided to top it all off.

This one looks much better. I hate mystery asking prices, though.

explorerx4 · November 2008

if a car had a vinyl roof, i like the ones that have it in the front, leaving the back of the roof painted, like that maverick.
back in '96 when my wife was looking for a new car, she liked the taurus sho and the aurora. the sho listed for about 30k, aurora 36k+. guess which one she bought.

boomchek · November 2008

Lemme see, you being a Ford guy... the SHO?

andre1969 · November 2008

if a car had a vinyl roof, i like the ones that have it in the front, leaving the back of the roof painted, like that maverick.

I kinda like that look too, sort of a reverse of a landau roof.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Geez, the '70 911T looks pretty beat up. I suppose if the price went no higher than a couple thousand bucks, you could restore the car. The 911Ts with Webers are not the most valuable of that era, nor is the targa, so in that sense it is on the bottom of the food chain---one would rather have (of course) a 911S, or a 911E with mechanical fuel injection, and if neither of those, at least a '73 911 coupe with CIS injection, or a '69 coupe with Webers and no targa. I would buy a car like that for $1,500 bucks or so because if it turned out to be really bad in some way (bad engine or rust, both of which immediately total the car, or nearly so) then I could part it out and get my $1,500 back.

The '78 looks to be a much better buy. It's an SC. It has that stupid whale tail but you can buy another engine lid and paint it to match, and sell the whale on eBay to someone who needs a testosterone recharge.

qbrozen · November 2008

It has that stupid whale tail

we think alike ... sometimes.

I'd much rather a 911E, personally. But good ones are $$$.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Yep 911E has more power, is more responsive--what's not to like?

qbrozen · November 2008

Oh, really? See, THAT I didn't know. I thought the T was more power and the E was the bottom model. I mean, it DOES lack the whaletail, after all.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Yes, the 911E has 30 more horsepower (155HP vs. 125HP) than the 911T, and is a good deal more rare as well.

The whale tail probably slows the car down...downforce will do that. Besides that, the concept of "downforce" is pretty irrelevant until you hit 130 mph or so. That's why seeing all these gadgets on street cars is rather amusing.

fintail · November 2008

When you give a car a wide engine bay to support several different powertrains, the small ones look especially tiny

Doesn't look like a bad driver

I think this stopped qualifying to be called a car long ago

Another nice W116...I once saw a 560SEL in a similar color combo (but the paint was more of a light silver blue)...made me drool...your experience may vary

boomchek · November 2008

You can hide a couple suitcases under the hood of that Ford wagon. And speaking of hiding stuff under the hood, I recall that some small European cars from the 70s and 80s had spare tires mounted under the hood. Anyone remember?

The color of the W116 is nice. Reminds me of my parents' light blue W123.

boomchek · November 2008

BMW 2002: Too rusty?

Morris Minor

Cool 36 Chev

Hillman Minx, worht anything?

Taurus SHO: complicated story

This engine bay looks empty!

fintail · November 2008

I think maybe Renault had the spare tire under the hood. Possibly an old Subaru did that too, rings a bell.

fintail · November 2008

BMW - junk or parts car if you could get it for $100...look at that shock! :surprise:

Morris - junk

Chev - DIY hot rod or resto rod maybe

Hillman is neat but a lost cause, a labor of love even if you get it for free

Burning money would be more efficient than playing with those Tauri parts, $1500 plus who knows what else plus who knows how many hours of labor gets you what?

The Nash coupe of that style is extremely rare anymore, but also awkward...another labor of love.

texases · November 2008

That 2002 - I guess it's a warning sign when you can change the shocks from inside the trunk, top and bottom! It might make a good parts car, if it runs as advertised, and the chrome looks halfway decent. But the body's DOA.

I did see a 745i (the turbo 6) on the way back from lunch. IIRC it also had those failure-prone self-adjusting rear shocks.

Oh yes, the SHOs chronicals - that guy needed to go to the Shifty School of Advertising Composition - I got lost halfway through :sick:

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

BMW 2002 -- Acme Auto Wrecking

Morris Minor --- Hey Acme can you pick up two at once?

Hillman Minx -- maybe worth something in the UK, but not here. Very entry level car, Sunbeam motor. If it were bright and shiny, with a Sunbeam Alpine engine, you might get a bite in the USA---but not like this. Put it in a box, send it over the pond. The Brits treat rust like we treat washing a car. It's second nature to them.

51 NASH -- Somebody might take that on. Doesn't look too, too bad, and there's a $10,000--$12,000 pot 'o gold waiting for you once you do the complete restoration.

boomchek · November 2008

I think some Fiats had spare tires under the hoods too. Back then not only did they fit there, but the spares were full size, not donuts!

210delray · November 2008

Mercedes -- I like those W116s myself, and the W126 that followed. Blue on white -- nice color combo too!

67 Falcon -- period avocado color, so unfashionable today! My mother had a full-size '67 Chevy Bel Air with the 250 inline 6. Same thing -- you could stand inside the engine compartment it seemed.

79 Caprice -- one of GM's best styling jobs during the 70s; too bad it's brown, which I hate. I had a white '77 Impala sedan with a blue cloth interior -- nice car, even when I bought it at 8 years and 104K miles.

Austin -- this is a hilarious example of the joke "cars" I tell my wife about.

explorerx4 · November 2008

ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.
actually the SHO was my wife's car.
i had gen 1 and gen 2, but switched to driving an explorer.
my wife drove an explorer, then switched to the gen 3 SHO.
after about 6 years she swapped it for a saab wagon.
i used to kid her that she succumbed to the pressure of the other PTC members, who wouldn't take someone seriously who drove a black car with chrome rims and a rumbly v8.

andre1969 · November 2008

I guess my memory's so short that I couldn't remember what color that Caprice was! All I remembered was that it wasn't anything that grossed me out. I went and took another look. Not my favorite color, but I could handle it. Actually, it looks a bit cinammon/coppery to me.

One thing that I just noticed, in the under-hood shot, is that open air cleaner. Of late, I've learned to fear those things. My '67 Catalina had one, but it didn't have any of the attachments that would have gone to the stock air cleaner, so the previous owner just ditched all that stuff! Now 14 years ago when I bought that car, if I wanted to set it right it probably wouldn't have been a big deal, but my mechanic had a hell of a time getting it all back the way it should be.

My '76 LeMans had an open air cleaner that came with it, but a stock looking one that was actually on it. Still, there's a few hoses here and there that just sort of go nowhere. I'm sure my mechanic will have a cow if I ever bring it in for him to get it set right.

That white Impala with a blue interior sounds like a really nice combination. I've always preferred the Impala to the Caprice, actually. Even though the interiors weren't as upscale, I just preferred the exterior details...mainly the grille. I'm the same way with 70's Pontiacs....usually I'll prefer the Catalina to the Bonneville.

I probably would have hated the color on that Falcon when I was younger. I've always liked some greens, like forest green, jade, pastels, greenish-blue, etc. But really didn't go for the more avocado/olive colors, or yellow-greens. But I kinda like that Falcon. I remember a green from the late 60's/early 70's that was similar, but seemed to have just a hint of silver in it. I really liked that one.

boomchek · November 2008

I thought for a second that this was your SHO ad that I posted earlier :surprise:

explorerx4 · November 2008

i think shifty has pointed out the shock tower rust problems on those 2002's.
that looks like a pretty good example!

if you are going to buy that sho, i recommend this so can have some fun with the sho.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2008

Okay spoke with a bunch o' Porsche experts and surprisingly, they thought that engine failure was more likely on the 996 than the Boxster, even though the two engine designs are similar. They suggest that perhaps the reason the failure rate is lower is that Boxster people do not drive their cars very hard, which I tend to agree with. But they report around 10% failure rate on 996 engines so that jives with what you read about Boxsters.

My friend's Porsche shop just doesn't see many Boxster engine failures. They think they are good cars.

I guess it rather depends on what Boxster you buy and who took care of it.

qbrozen · November 2008

Wow. quite a few new Porsches in my area popped up in my email today. Lots of overpriced stuff and these 2 gems.

I'm not sure where to begin with this one.
Hmmm... I think all his talk about how to repair the car for cheap worries me the most.

hmmm... too bad. Looked nice at one time in its life.

qbrozen · November 2008

wow. 10%? that's really high.
now yer gonna scare me off Porsches.
And I would drive the boxster hard.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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