Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Paying more than the car is worth merely takes away from your restoration budget, and to no good purpose. This is especially true of common cars like 60s Mustangs, where there are so many to choose from and the market value is so well know. There's no excuse for paying more than market price for one of those.

    if the car is extremely rare, say one of 100 or one of 500, you may have no choice but to pay the asking price, if you are really hot for that car.

    Last of all, you have to look at the car's options/color/engine in order to decide what to pay. Is AC on a vintage car worth an extra 10%? Yep, probably is. Is the color red worth more than baby poop brown? Yes again. Is a 6 cylinder Mustang worth the same as a V8? No way.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    Trying to pin a value on this

    I watched it the first time it was listed, and now its back to tempt me a 2nd time. What do you folks think its really worth?

    I keep telling myself I don't want a convertible. Don't want the extra weight, nor do I care to drive with the top down very often. And if it will be my track car ... well, obvious reasons for no 'vert.

    However, its a 325 manual tranny that maybe could be had cheap. SOOOOO... ??

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    Well, I paid $2500 for my '87 325 back in 1999 with 125,000 miles on it, so it was "only" 12 years old at the time, and I still drive it regularly. He's looking for $3100 for a car that's 2 years older than mine was.

    The sellers says he has new leather seats (mine had cloth) and he's replaced the rack and pinion (something I had to do in 2005?), new sound system, and struts all 'round, so he has some money put into it. I wonder when the timing belt was changed out - do '94's still use the rubber one, like my '87?

    One thing I would worry a bit about is how it's been driven. The seller says he's replaced the clutch, pressure plate, etc. I still have the original clutch in my '87, with around 188,000 miles on it, and they are pretty much bullet proof. So makes me wonder why the clutch replacement?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    I paid $3300 for my automatic '87 325i with 114k miles about 17 months ago. But I paid for condition (zero rust, even on undercarriage, all working electrics, new top, etc). Its tough to find decent ones.

    The new leather is definitely a plus for me. Our current one could use it, but I don't want to spend the money. Its big bucks. Like you said, he's done alot of work, which is the only reason I'm considering. Ours also could use new bushings all around. But, again, just not willing to do that yet. I'm afraid my wife will tire of it any day now and I'd have spent the time and money for nothing.

    188k miles on one clutch is rare. Very rare. Not only is it how its driven, but where its driven. If you are in bumper-to-bumper every day (for example), that's going to kill it, no matter how gentle you try to be.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This car smells like trouble from the get-go. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole personally.

    You'll just end up like the previous owner. Sinking money into a salvage title car is a one-way street. Even if you "improve" it, you don't get a dime more for it. Given what he's replaced, the car obviously didn't have a dime in maintenance spent on it in its prior life, AND it was totalled besides.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    Good point.

    Now for the other end of the spectrum:
    Possibly the nicest '86 911 I've seen in quite some time.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah well seeing is believing. That's a mighty ambitious starting bid for a car with ZERO information about it, a claimed 76K miles, and being posted "for a friend" AND from NJ, the ferrous oxide capitol of the world. That's top retail as an opening bid, not a good sign. Why not just sell this "gem" locally?

    I'd much rather see a car like this with 20 photos, a VIN #, a service history and the real owner to contact.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    y'all remember my friend who had the 1965 Volvo 122 wagon on eBay a couple months ago? He had sold it because he had recently picked up a '62 Galaxie. Well, now he has that one up for sale!

    I had never seen the car in person, but for some reason I thought it was more of a bluish green, whereas I guess this is more of a sage green?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    I agree.

    And thanks for info on the price. I was wondering (as I am clueless on Porsches, as I believe we all know by now).

    We CAN have rust-free cars here. Ya just can't drive them in any inclement weather, always keep it in the garage, and never live or drive near the ocean.

    Of course, as the owner's town's name indicates, he lives ... ummm... ahhh... welll... right by the water.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well it could be a GREAT car, but you'd never know much from reading the ad one way or the other.

    80s Porsches are still "used cars"---by that I mean that the OLDER they are, the LESS they are worth--so they are acting like used cars, not collectibles, which, of course, generally do the reverse--as they age they become more valuable.

    Given that, you want to be careful not to pay over retail for one because you could suffer further depreciation.

    For Carreras of that type, I like 1987 on up, then skip the C2s all together
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    That car looks like it would make a really nice daily driver, at least from the pics. I hate those stupid skirts on the back. What's up with the differential? Is it leaking?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    Interesting collection

    Although not many on there wouldn't kill you on upkeep, thereby negating the bargain it was to begin with.

    I was just looking at vettes last night on the web, as a matter of fact. Lots of performance for the $$. And, of course, parts are plentiful and not terribly expensive. But then it occurred to me that it could eat through alot of tire money if autoX'ing.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Thanks for posting the list. Pretty cool. It has almost all of my fav cars from the 90s.

    I think most people that own them ask over book value for them anyway so it would be difficult finding one for the listed prices.

    I think for looks I'd go witht he 850i or the 600SEC, and for reliability I'd go with the Lexus GS400.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,010
    check out the pictures in the top right and lower left.
    there are boats in each driveway/yard.
    this guy's boat doesn't look so good. :confuse:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    I agree on the 850i, but then I'd go Stealth over Benz, personally.

    The Lexus would never be on any list I'd compile. Their car just proves that 300hp can still be boring. ;)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah what you need is the LT4 motor in the BMW 850 with the Lexus electronics. :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    Yeah, if I had a lot of play money to throw away, I'd be tempted by my buddy's car. I think he says he has his reserve set at $4200. He paid $4500 for it and put some work into it...rebuilt carburetor, dual exhaust, and some other odds and ends. But he also bought it back in the summer, back when the economy was simply sick, and hadn't imploded yet.

    You're right about those skirts...first thing I'd do if I had that car would be to pull them off. They came with the car though...my friend didn't put them on. I think he has better taste than that. :)

    I guess that differential does have a slow leak in it. A little of that stuff really does go a long way, and can make a leak look more intense than it really is. Or some could have just spilled the last time it was filled, and it never got wiped off. I wonder how expensive it would be to fix something like that?

    The car just has a 292-2bbl mated to a 2-speed automatic, so I'm sure it's not a screamer. I guess it's adequate for a nice cruiser, though.

    With smaller, weaker engines like this, I've heard that a dual exhaust can actually hamper performance, rather than improve it. Something about back pressure? Is that true? Could someone 'splain it to me?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Have you seen the car in person? Is there any rust or bondo on it? Personally, I don't think he will realistically get more than $3K for it in this economy.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    Nah, I haven't seen the car in person. Bummer, because I wanted to! He says there's no rust on it, other than the battery tray.

    For some reason, this pic makes me think faintly of Hitchcock's "The Birds". Maybe it's the Cape Cod house with the evergreens around it and the bay off in the distance. And come to think of it, Rod Taylor had a '62 Galaxie in that movie.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I hope I don't offend anyone, but I don't see any redeeming value in a '62 Galaxie with the 292 and 2-speed Fordomatic. It handles terribly, performs poorly and guzzles gas. What am I not seeing?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,176
    Can't argue, I was about to say it seems good for what it is, but what it is, ain't much. A year ago he might have found a collector of oddballs like this, but these days it's gotta be much harder to find someone like that.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    About the only upshot I could see if someone was really nostalgic for a car like this. Say, their parents had one when they were a kid, or they had one themselves, back in the day. But, that's probably going to be a pretty small audience. And I imagine that most people who are going to want a '62 Galaxie are going to want a hardtop or convertible, and a 390. Or at least a 352.

    I kinda like it mainly because it IS a bit of an oddball, and something you don't see everyday. '62 Impalas are all over the place, relatively speaking, while '62 Furys and Dart/Polaras are just too "out there" style-wise, so I think this Galaxie is a neat change of pace. I like the color too, although I'd lose the fender skirts, stat.

    I think I looked it up once, and the 292-2bbl only has something like 170 hp?! IIRC, the 283-2bbl was up to around 195 hp by this time, while the Mopar 318-2bbl had 230 hp...plus the advantage of being hooked up to a 3-speed automatic! So I guess the Galaxie was a bit of a dog compared to its peers?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I foresee that a significant percentage of cars such as that Galaxy will be scrapped before the economy recovers because - again, my opinion - these cars are neither economical transportation nor fun to drive. Also, the people who remember them from their youth are dying off or are no longer driving. Further, some of these older guys can't afford or justify owning these cars in these economically difficult times. Finally, the condition of the remaining cars from the early-mid '60s deteriorates with time, and restoring them is a losing proposition. The upshot is that whereas there are a fair number of these cars in back yards and behind barns now, they will soon become quite rare, kind of like the cars from the '40s and '50s are now. An increasing number of the ones that remain will be convertibles and two door hardtops, as most of the sedans and wagons will be crushed.

    A limited number of them will be purchased by foreign buyers, but not very many.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    I guess when you've buried yourself beyond all reason ...
    donate it to charity!

    FYI. I first went to check it out at maybe 3:00. It was $250. Now at 4:30, its over $4k.

    Amazing that the seller could spend all of that money and do nothing more to the engine than change the oil.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Hey, it's an RX-7 with 285 thousand miles in it. It must be on it's third or fourth engine by now. So maybe an oil change was all it needed. :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,010
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    RE: Porsche 944

    Looks good for the money. The price is fair, perhaps a tad under value but close enough given the interior issues.

    The cold air intake and "chip" are probably Mickey Mouse stuff ("Hi. I own a garage in Cleveland and I know a LOT more than the Porsche engineers").

    But the dreaded water pump and timing belt have been done (one hopes there is a repair order to prove this), so barring the chip going crazy and the cold air intake sucking in a piston-full of water someday, what's not to like?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804
    I'm not a front-engined porsche fan, it seems. The 924, 944, 928, 968 ... they're all just so darned ugly.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    There must be alot of dog lovers bidding up the Mazda, it's already at $4500. I sold the exact car with 85k miles in 1990 for $5k. I have seen ones with half those miles go for $3-$4K on ebay, yes that is one of my weekly searches (Rx-7 GSL-SE).If you want a really nice one check this one out.

    link title

    She did alot of work to it, hopefully the $10k bill is not what did her in.

    The Porsche 944 seems like a good deal. The work it needs is is you could live with until you find the cash to fix like a/c and the sunroof.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    I just checked my friend's eBay listing, and see the car has been bid up to $2550. I know he's probably breathing a bit more easily now. He was getting a bit worried when it seemed the bidding was stalling out around $1000-1100.

    It'll be interesting to see how high it goes.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Them is fighting words. Ok, so the 924 is a little homely. And maybe the 968 was one update too many for a good design. And the 928 was a piece of art work, so beauty is in the eye of the beholder there.

    But...the 944 is just plain darn good looking. It doesn't have a line wrong anywhere. No, it isn't a 911, but nothing is a 911.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,176
    I'm with you on the 944. The 924 did nothing for me, but somehow those fender flares completely transformed the look. It still catches my attention every time I see one.
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    I saw this and had to share - I figured this group would appreciate the sheer insanity.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___Custom-1982-Maserati-Quattroporte-5- -4-V8-626hp_W0QQitemZ120344444938QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewIt- emQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item120344444938&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3- A727%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

    OK, it's a completed project. But can you imagine the amount of time, money, and probably alcohol it must have taken? And now someone has the fastest '82 QP on the planet. Awesome.

    -Jason
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Actually a 944 can be a 911---at least a 944 Turbo, well set-up and driven expertly, can still give a 911 FITS on the race track.

    '82 Maserati 4Porto -- that would be a sweet car to have if the conversions were done well and the thing doesn't sound like a Hell's Bells hotrod. The 4Porto has the loveliest leather seats you'll ever experience, and if enough sound-deadening and balancing has been installed to block out the over-built Ford V8 (the Maser V-8 was very quiet and very smooth), this car would be a winner to cruise around the country in.

    This car is a monster, and you aren't going to fling it around like it was a BMW M5, so best keep it as a stately GT car that goes fast.

    The choice of gauges, wheels and steering wheel are unfortunate, but this is Las Vegas. I'm also not a big fan of 200 lbs of airtex piping all over the place. Also not sure if the double-shocks are going to jar your fillings loose in your teeth.

    It's a car that needs to be driven before it is bought, or you might end up with a freak here. Jay Leno might like it.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I always like the looks of the old Maseratis QPs. It does indeed look like alot of work has been put into it. Not sure if I'd pay $45k for it though.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    True, considering that you could buy the world's best 4Porto for $20,000 in stock form with a 5-speed, restored to perfection.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,741
    Those gauges hurt my eyes!
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Lots of Birds in flight - at reasonable prices?

    I always loved these... make me think of the Jetsons!
    http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/946446308.html

    http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/943124059.html

    http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/940982184.html

    This looks a more of a mugging set-up than a serious ad
    http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/940982184.html

    Memories of the dark ages of the Thunderbirds
    http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/942544250.html

    These just never excited me.... they had so much promise....but
    http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/936842050.html

    Can someone please explain this picture for me?
    http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/923559812.html
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    I don't think it registers very high on most people's radar list, but I LOVE the '66 T-bird! Except for one little detail...I hate that landau style with the huge blind C-pillar. I love the base hardtop coupe though, or better yet, the convertible. I think the landau was the most popular body style that year, though.

    That Roadrunner pic looks kinda like an aborted Dukes of Hazzard stunt. Maybe for the pilot they tried using a '71 Roadrunner but discovered it sucked at jumping, so they went with the '69 Charger (and a few '68's and an occasional '70 :blush: ) instead?
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,896
    Well, the photo obviously shows the car being loaded onto a trailer with a forklift (doesn't bode well for its condition!), but I have to wonder why someone would pick *that* photo for a sale ad. Something smells, and it is probably that "bird."
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    76 T-Bird -- I'd really enjoy machine-gunning that car.

    Let's see---we got yer Classic Birds or "Little Birds", then yer Square Birds ("lets give the market away to Corvette") , then yer Bullet Birds, then yer Jet Birds (why that name?) and then the Dark Ages aka the "Big Birds" (appropriate as they weighed 4,300 lbs)......

    2002 T-Bird: "Let's make them all 6 cylinder automatics. No one will notice!"
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    The '02 T-bird used a V-8 engine, not a 6-cyl. I forget its displacement now...I want to say 3.9L, but it was the same one used in the Lincoln LS sedan. But I think they were all automatics. I just never cared for the style of those cars. I know it's supposed to evoke the style of the '55-57 T-bird, but I just don't see it. I swear it looks more like a 1953 Corvette than it does a first-gen Bird. The biggest problem is that the 2002 Bird has a raked-back front-end, like a Corvette. The original Bird had more of a forward thrust to it, especially the '57. Plus, the proportioning just isn't right. Those original Birds had a long hood, closely coupled compartment, and a long-ish rear deck. Comfort probably sucked for anybody taller than maybe 5'7", but damn those cars looked good! With the 2002 model though, the cowl is too far forward, and the hood too short.

    I think the only time I've ever heard the word "pig" used as an adjective was in describing the handling of a mid-60's T-bird, but how bad, really, would a '66 be? I mean, if I'm comfortable driving a '67 Catalina and a '57 DeSoto, could a '66 T-bird be any more of a challenge? I know it would be a joke by today's standards, but would it be bad, even by the standards of the time?

    Oh, as for that early 70's Bird, it was a lot more than 4300 lb. Try more like 5,000+! The thing was basically an uglied-up Mark IV. When they went to the intermediate Torino/LTD-II platform, THAT got them down to about 4000-4300 lb!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well right you are...a 3.9 liter V8! I obviously got it mixed up with the other retro misstep--the Prowler.

    Some people like the new Birds---ladies love 'em.

    66 T-Bird -- you would not believe how badly they handle. You wouldn't believe me if I told you how bad. You'd think me unkind, you'd accuse me of exaggeration, bias, distortion.

    But I'll try--- think of driving your Mom's old sofa on the freeway.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    66 T-Bird -- you would not believe how badly they handle. You wouldn't believe me if I told you how bad. You'd think me unkind, you'd accuse me of exaggeration, bias, distortion. .

    In a perverse sort of way, you have me curious to experience one! What did Ford do to those cars to make them handle so badly? If I can handle a '67 Catalina, would I be okay with a '66 T-bird? Or does the Bird take it to a whole new level?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh I think the large overhangs, the gushy tires, the enormous unsprung weight inherent in the suspension design, etc. Hard to say, but the car always felt way out of balance to me. I've driven many big heavy cars but those later Birds always seems to be to be particularly clumsy. I don't think I'm the first to mention this.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,741
    When I was very young my mother drove one of those big Birds, white on white. My parents loved that car. It was replaced by a Ciera...different world.

    NADA prices are for ignorants.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,804

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,114
    I'll give him bonus points for the Comic Sans font, though. Gives it sort of a playful atmosphere...like mixing Ice House and Monster and then watching Mama's Family outtakes on Youtube. :P
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Here's the really truly Dark Age for the Thunderbird!

    image

    This one looks almost exactly like my Dad's car except it's a 1982 model instead of a 1981 model like his car. The only real difference is the 'Bird logos on the headlamp doors. The 1981 model had silver backgrounds instead of black.
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