Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

hpmctorque · February 2010

Neat car! The deficiencies sound relatively minor. You've certainly done your homework, thereby minimizing the chances for a mistake.

Good luck!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Thanks. I thought I'd lay it all out as it happens, as I find the process interesting and informative.

More to the point.....I can't AFFORD to make a big mistake.

In fact, none of us, no matter how clever, can assure a mistake-free purchase. All we can do is vastly improve our odds.

But could I get stung and take a couple thou dollar beating? Sure. But it won't be from carelessness. It'll just be bad luck.

I wouldn't feel right telling other people how to buy cars if I didn't practice what I preach.

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback....very helpful.

hpmctorque · February 2010

Yup, all we can to is reduce the odds for a mistake, by being well informed and thorough. I think I'm reasonably well informed and careful, but I talked myself into a mistake once that I'm embarrassed to reveal now. Bought a used Citation for a family member. Thought I could beat the odds. Well, I didn't. I guess the best I can say for that purchase is that this particular Citation turned out to be better than the average X-car, but that's not saying much.

hpmctorque · February 2010

"Maybe the magazine did some kind of radical launch at sea level on a windless moist day?"

A hurricane force tail wind, maybe?

andre1969 · February 2010

don't recall whether your PA has the supercharged 3.8, but, if it does, do you use premium gas?

Yeah, supercharged, and it calls for premium fuel. I don't know what would happen if I tried running 87 octane in it. I'm sure it's modern enough to be "smart" enough to adjust for it, but I'd probably lose performance and fuel economy, so it might be a wash, $ wise.

While neither GM nor Mopar were paragons of excellence on fit and finish several years ago, I was surprised about what you wrote, in terms of these attributes.

Well, back around 2000, I think Chrysler was trying hard, paying attention to details like fit and finish. The 1993-97 Intrepid/Concorde could be horrible cars in their early years, although by 1996-97 weren't too bad. However, as a result, I think they tried hard to make the 1998+ models a major improvement. They had to, if they wanted to keep sales up. In contrast, GM was sort of fat, happy, and complacent back then, and I think it shows in how the cars were often slapped together.

Since 2000, GM has made some major strides, as the new cars coming out were usually much-improved over what came before. But with Chrysler, that really didn't happen. Maybe it's just that GM had more room for improvement?

In overall terms, I'd say the Park Ave is still more car than the Intrepid. But, while the Intrepid was pretty impressive for a car with a $21K MSRP, the Park Ave just has too many cut corners for a car that probably MSRP'ed for about $40K. A lot of it is just petty little things. For instance, the Intrepid had a better cupholder. Struts in the trunk instead of mammoth, luggage-crushing gooseneck hinges. Bigger glovebox and door pockets Better feel to the power window switchgear, and headlight switchgear. Door handles that feel sturdier...even though they're just plastic on both cars. And while little details like that don't necesarily make or break a car, I just find it odd that a $21K car would have them, while a $40K car wouldn't.

If I'd been in the market for a car in this class back in 2000, I think I would've gone with a Chrysler LHS. But, as a used car, the Park Ave is great, and will probably be more reliable than if I had gone out and found a used 2000 LHS, or say a Concorde Limited.

qbrozen · February 2010

So when do you actually make the offer?

Did you say what their asking price is?

gsemike · February 2010

Go for it. Unless it's brand new, you've got to expect something about it not to be brand new. That car doesn't look like it's been through the ringer at all.

explorerx4 · February 2010

if you are satisfied that the bead welding looks 'as factory', simple clean up seems like a good idea.

jlflemmons · February 2010

Finally decided it was time to stop playing with the xTreme and get a real commuter car. Y'all want to critique the ad and tell me if I am missing something? It was a bit hard to price as there are only two in Texas, and only about 5 or so within 500 miles.

The Toy

ghulet · February 2010

Ad looks great to me, you covered all the bases (description, pictures, mileage, who owned it and that it was maintained).

srs_49 · February 2010

Heck, that ain't rust. It's galvanic protection for the bare metal :shades: .

Seriously, look at where it's rusting - along the welds and the nuts. I'm am not a metallurgist, so am guessing a bit here. But obviously, they did not use stainless steel fasteners in these locations (then again, neither do most manufacturers). While the metal may have been galvanized originally, the welds were not, hence the rusting there.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Done deal!

They were pretty damn tough in negotiation. No recession in Marin county I guess. Actually they let me walk out the door at my $11K offer, so I had to go back in a few hours later $11.5K----so with T&L, new plates for the year, etc, we're in about $12.8K.

This is the exactly average price shown in about 280 Mini Cooper Ss listed nationwide on Autotrader....so, considering the T&L costs, $11.5K seems "fair enough".

Not a steal, but neither am I the steal-ee. :P

Big expense for me, but I hate car payments (I like cash deals) and I've been saving for this car for THREE YEARS!

Never underestimate the joys of deferred gratification.

The boys at my repair shop (highly regarded Porsche guys and old friends) thought the car was a great little machine that drove extremely well.

Next? I've scheduled to put on: 1) strut tower braces (common MINI problem) and 2) metal shield for power steering cooling fan (if rock breaks this fan, it's on the same circuit as cooling fan for radiator---thus, one rock wipes out an entire engine).

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Can you imagine the humiliation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5Q8yR-Cusw&NR=1

tjc78 · February 2010

Congrats on the ride. My GF wants a Mini Convert (then an SUV, then she likes my Genesis but you get the point).

As for the power steering cooling fan is that the black box toward the top of the photo you posted (just above the metal brace)? Was wondering what that was for.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Yes, that's it, that little plasticky thing that stands between you and disaster. As you can see, one good smack with road debris and that plastic shield is toast....then the fan, exposed to dirt and debris, jams up....thus blowing the radiator cooling fan circuit....thus overheating your engine if you don't notice it in time.

I'm sure little quirks will pop up with the car but I got a toolbox, mechanic friends with all the MINI hardware and software, and the tech manuals----so I have a fighting chance here.

I opted for the dual-pane sunroof rather than the convertible. Parking as I do in San Francisco, sometimes with valuables in the car, it's just too risky.

A junkie will just as soon slash your top to steal 2 CDs and half a Diet Coke as he will for a laptop. :mad:

Besides, living near the ocean in No. California, there aren't that many really comfortable top-down days. Now if I lived in L.A. or New Mexico, hell yeah.

qbrozen · February 2010

Bah. A vert defeats the purpose of a MINI S anyway, IMHO. More weight and less rigidity are not desirable characteristics.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

That is certainly the European view. If I had a 'vert, it wouldn't be a MINI 'vert anyway. I find the coupe more attractive. My ideal fleet right now would be a MINI coupe, an Austin Healey Sprite, and a 4X4 crew cab pickup. One for everyday fun, one for hard work, and the Healey for the necessary automotive aggravation we all need to build character.

qbrozen · February 2010

If I had a 'vert, it wouldn't be a MINI 'vert anyway.

Exactly. MINI and vert just don't go together.

Well.... OK, I guess I can't argue with a base MINI vert. Takes the slot of the VW cabrio.

tjc78 · February 2010

OK, I guess I can't argue with a base MINI vert. Takes the slot of the VW cabrio.

That's a good comparison. I don't think I would even want a convertible here in NJ. Heck, I don't even use my moonroof that much... but I HAD to have it

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

I like sunroofs to keep me from feeling too claustrophobic in a small coupe....at least a modern small coupe I mean. True, all you see is telephone lines, sky and freeway overpasses, but still....

tjc78 · February 2010

Yeah for that they are nice. I find myself using it once in a while in the fall and sometimes spring. During the summer I have the A/C cranked up, so usually even the sun shade is closed. On my car, to get some of the options I wanted it was included and couldn't delete it if I wanted. It seems on many cars that is the case.

qbrozen · February 2010

That's a good comparison. I don't think I would even want a convertible here in NJ. Heck, I don't even use my moonroof that much... but I HAD to have it

I'm with you (both philosophically and geographically). I don't even open the sunshade of my moonroof. Although I can't remember the last car I had without one since it just seems to be standard fare.

Oh, wait, I remember, my 350Z didn't have one. And, I suppose, technically, my 300Z doesn't have one, but it has T-tops. Before that, I'm not sure ... I think maybe my 626 didn't have one. OH YEAH, and my pickup truck.

I find they only do 2 things. Let the sun shine down into my eyes and cut into my precious headroom.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

I did manage to drive a C4 Corvette before purchasing the MINI.

You know, a C4 is a lot of car for the money, but it's really very cheesily built compared to a modern C6 or even a MINI. I don't think I could live with this K-Mart interior.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Completely Different:

http://www.britishv8.org/Other/AaronCouper.htm

british_rover · February 2010

Good job on the MINI I know you have been looking for one for years.

I would add a MINI Madness rear sway bar and a short shift kit. Those were two of the first mods I did to mine and they really improved it.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Thanks.

Since this is a significant purchase, I had to be pretty careful and fussy.

I'm a big fan of rear sway bars. That's a good suggestion.

I'm not doing the front strut brace (that goes from one strut to the other) however---I think for a street car this offers minimal benefit, and it obstructs engine bay access

re: short shifter -- I'm a little leery of this, inasmuch as one loses leverage. I think it depends on how "short" is short.

Interesting item --- I priced out the exact equivalent MINI Cooper S for 2010. With all my options, including T&L, the new one would have cost me just about $32,000

:surprise: :surprise: :surprise:

british_rover · February 2010

The MINI is so stiff that a front strut tower brace is totally unnecessary I agree. Unless it was a track car I wouldn't bother.

My MINI new was $24,500 with taxes and reg and I bet it had the same equipment as the car you just bought.

Premium package( Auto AC, multi-function steering wheel, panoramic roof)
Sport package minus the stupidly heavy 53 lbs a piece 17 inch sport wheels
Climate package
and leatherette
oh also got lo-jack since I lived in a iffy part of the city at the time.

MINI prices have skyrocketed to the point that buying them used makes sense now. I prefer the Supercharged S over the turbo S of the new body MINI's anyway.

hpmctorque · February 2010

Congrats! Now, what are you going to do or did you do with your Subie?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Subie will regrettably go up for sale. Someone's going to get a good car! All I have to do is detail it, change the oil, and replace the power steering rack rubber boot, which I noticed is splitting. It's been a great car but you know, variety is the spice of life (hey that's clever, remind me to write it down). :P

xwesx · February 2010

San Francisco area is what, about 3,000 miles? I'll be down to pick it up next week.... :P

xwesx · February 2010

Not that it detracts from the ad, but I almost want to see a closeup of that center console shifter. The ad says its an auto, which I assume is correct?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

I'll get out the vacuum!

qbrozen · February 2010

I would add a MINI Madness rear sway bar and a short shift kit.

But then you can't race stock class at the autox. :P

garv214 · February 2010

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Austin-Healey-Austin-Healey-Bugeye-Sprite_W0QQite- - mZ290403901258QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item439d6bdf4a

Shifty, speaking of sprites... I have alway had a soft spot for the bugeye sprites myself...">link title

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Love 'em.

This one looks a bit scruffy for a "restoration", and the Weber is regrettable. Instead of a smooth idle and great gas mileage with the SUs, you'll get an ornery gas-eater on top of your engine.

I'd certainly send an inspector around. Seller has zero feeback.

garv214 · February 2010

Yeah, I saw a couple of odd things. For all of the money that was likely dumped into the bugeye, you think he could have sprung for a couple of rubber pedal covers and maybe cleaned up (tossed) that roll bar...

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

These cars really suck with Webers unless you are racing. It over-carburates the engine for street use. You could get 14 mpg with that thing.

explorerx4 · February 2010

we've seen the greasy side, are you going to post some pictures of the shiny side?
pick a nice background. if you can't think of one, that mansion that was in the 'bullitt' movie will do.

andre1969 · February 2010

pick a nice background. if you can't think of one, that mansion that was in the 'bullitt' movie will do.

Or maybe drive up to Bodega Bay and get some poses.

jlflemmons · February 2010

Yep, 4spd 4L60E w/ special programming, also from the factory. Basically, the default is the tow/haul mode. Shifts about 500rpm higher, and more crisp. Which means you have to be careful in the rain. BTW, the 2002 4.3L does not use EGR. Doesn't even have a place for it in the manifold. Uses a crank AND cam sensors to control ignition.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

I don't HAVE it yet....it's over at the Porsche shop getting parts installed. Maybe Tuesday. It's also 85 miles away, so as much as I like to ride my bike....... :shades:

morin2 · February 2010

A belated Congrats on your "new" Mini. BRG/white is the best combo on those. Good move on the real tires. My kid brother loves his more after getting away from the %$#* run-flats. He drives his on brutal MA roads where the potholes have their own potholes. He has bent factory wheels but buys more on craigslist whenever he sees them.

I've worked with guys from Michigan who had some rustbuckets & they told me that most people keep winter cars - sorta pre-rusted sacrificial offerings to the rust gods.
I'd bet your Mini was garaged in winter.

Congrats!
RPM

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

Thanks----yeah, the rust is really superficial....maybe a few bolts will be harder to get off, but in general, no harm done. I'm sooooo glad not to have run flats on there.

hpmctorque · February 2010

Run flats should be an option, and space should be provided for a donut spare, in my opinion. Sorry, BMW, but run flats would almost be a deal breaker for me on a new car.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

I drove two same year MINIS, one with run flats, one without, and you wouldn't believe the difference----the car with the run flats SUCKED on rough roads---it was AWFUL...

boomchek · February 2010

Congrats on your Mini Shifty. It should be fun to boot around in it in the streets and hills of San Francisco!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

It's really the perfect city car in that respect...squiggling around in traffic requires good short bursts of speed...and parking is a cinch with this little guy; also the hills require a fair amount of power to maintain a steady climb to the top--you need good torque because invariably the car climbing in front of you is chugging slower and slower, thereby sandbagging you. Last thing you want to do is stop 10 feet BEFORE the crest of those big hills.

boomchek · February 2010

Yeah, those hills can get steep at times. But I had fun drivng there on our last vacation. Actually San Fran is one of my favorite cities I've been too. Hoping to return with my wife and son in the near future (when he gets a little bit older to remember vacations).

Some streets are so steep they have built in steps :surprise:

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

Wife standing by our Jeep on the same steep street as above (I think it was one of the steepest we've encountered).

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

Mr_Shiftright · February 2010

I think 22nd and Chattanooga is the steepest. I used to fly up it on my Norton---all I could see was the sky as I summited. :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright · March 2010

Here's one idea I had for the MINI:

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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