Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited March 2010
    It's a car that would be worth 15K in show quality condition...and he paid $5500 for one that was far from roadworthy. It looked complete and straight, but the patina was a bit thick. It's awfully expensive yard art, or a labor of love, in the condition he bought it. Cars with aged cosmetics are popular at the moment...so he might be able to sink a few grand into it and at least get it driving again...but he'll still be way upside down. Not one of the bargains on that show. It's a fun show though...I've been to a lot of estate sales etc over the years, the thrill of the hunt can be intoxicating...I think it got to him.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    I was thinking the number of people who want a pre-War Plymouth has to be quite limited, though I could be wrong.

    I saw some posts which claim that the old Plymouth is actually a 1940 instead of a 1939 as claimed on American Pickers. Depending on collector's tastes in particular make/model cars, a thing like that could have a big impact on a resto project!

    But like you posted, considering the overall limited interest in prewar Plymouths it may not make a difference. Here's a pic of the AP "garage find" in question:

    Photobucket
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2010
    Problem is that the Plymouth is a pretty ugly car.

    Some prewar Chrysler products are rather nice. This 36 Desoto for instance is, IMO, far more attractive than that other lump.

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Definitely a 40 - the 39 had square headlights.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Definitely a 40 - the 39 had square headlights.

    Yup...also, the '39 had a bolder upper grille, and smaller lower grilles. Those integrated headlights on the '39's must have been a pain to replace if the glass broke. IIRC, the Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto, and Chrysler all used a different shape. I'm guessing it was also pretty common to just convert the things over to regular round headlights in later years, as those original parts became rarer.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    edited March 2010
    .....is a fun show to watch, though quite a bit of the speculation as to the 'value' of certain items is just that. They'd have to find that certain person to pay, say, $200 for a 1920s biscuit tin they picked up for ten bucks. And quite a few items are beyond help, at least not for a reasonable cost (I recall recently seeing a bicycle that looked like it had been sitting under a bush for about fifty years that was nothing more than a pile of rust). :confuse:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Yeah, their "valued" figures can be somewhat dubious...unless it sells at that price, it can't really be counted as profit. My parents were involved in antique dealing throughout my childhood and my mother is a chronic collector, I have seen how things can be twisted and justified. I think the "American Pickers" guys could end up being like an American version of "Wheeler Dealers" if everything is counted. Not a job I would want. But...they have found some bargains too, and they aren't the sleazy types offering a poor old widow 50 cents for a Tiffany lamp etc.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I always thought the 1940 DeSoto was a really attractive car...
    image

    It's kinda funny how people associate portholes with Buicks and split grilles with Pontiacs, yet both styling themes were common long before Buick or Pontiac made them a trademark. Here, the same car is showing them both off!

    Somewhere packed away, there are some old pics of my house, with a 1937 Plymouth parked beside it. One of these days, I hope to find them again, so I can scan them in and post them. It would be a nice companion piece to this old shot, with a 1953 Chevy parked in the same spot...
    image

    BTW, when did color film start becoming commonplace? The picture with the 1953 Chevy has "1965" printed on the lower part of it (I had cropped it from the scan). So, I guess, even back then, my family was known for driving cars that were out of date. I guess it's in my DNA. :P
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....my mom learned how to drive on a 1952 Chevy, in 1965. Their other car (or maybe cars, I don't know when they bought the Tempest) were a 1960 Catalina station wagon and a '63 Tempest coupe.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,030
    did some unknown electrical glitch cause the trunk to open?
    could be a couple of propane tanks, though.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2010
    It's hard to make a ragtop look bad, because often t gets rid of 1/2 the problem :P

    1940-41 were very dull years for styling IMO. Cars became fat and bloated. Very clumsy looking cars for the most part. Some cars look like they are moving when they are standing still, others look like they are standing still when they are moving.

    This unfortunate trend wasn't really "cured" until the '49 Ford---then we were really done with vestigial running boards and humpy trunks and pontoon fenders.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    I think the only electrical glitch a 53 Chevy could have would be if it was struck by lightning :shades: ...speaking of period Chevies like everyone else, my dad's first car was a 51 Chevy. But in 1957 he bought a new leftover 1956 Crown Victoria...odd choice for a 20 year old...and then bought mostly Ford for some years.

    And speaking of American pickers, I watched part of a rerun of the latrest episode last night...I am surprised they didn't try to haul those ruined Isettas out of the woods. I think the taller guy likes odd Euro cars...he has that lowered old VW Transporter pickup.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I dunno. I thought this 1941 car was super attractive:

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2010
    Eh.....still a vestigial car from the late 30s....formal, old-fashioned and a well-worn design motif. I"m not saying the designs of this time were "bad"---just very very stagnant. It's not an accident that most of us can't tell one late 30s car from another. The mid to late 20s was the same thing. Only around 1930--36 did design "wake up" for a short "Golden Age".

    The styles of the late 30s/early 40s look depressed because of...well...the Depression. It lasted so long it just ground everything down eventually. The last thing people wanted was to be seen in flamboyant cars when so many were suffering.

    Also the world was very jumpy, anticipating war.

    Compare 1945-1954 with 1955--1971 in America. Same idea....from the frumpy to real vitality in car design.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    When I first saw that picture, I thought the trunk was open as well. But then I remembered that the oil tank used to be back there, on the side of the house. My stepdad finally moved it around behind the house in 1984 and built an enclosure around it to keep it somewhat insulated. I remember the oil line had frozen up that winter, and it got so cold in the house that the water in the Christmas tree stand even froze! Never had a problem after it got moved, though.

    Funny you'd mention getting struck by lightning. My cousin's '69 Bonneville got struck by lightning in the driveway next door...probably less than 50 feet from where the Chevy is in that pic! I bought the car from him a couple years later, and had electrical problems with it. At the time, I didn't make the connection that maybe the lightning strike had something to do with it. :surprise:
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    I enjoy watching the show but the prices paid and their artificial "profits" are way optimistic. What bothers me about this show is that "picking" (for a lack of a better word) is our hobby and now you have these guys on tv paying exorbitant prices for junk and people watching think well I can get $500. for that old can of Pennzoil or whatever. It is just unrealistic and it screws it up for the rest of us. The media is destroying any advantage we had however minor it was. Last year I bough an old british sportscar that had been sitting for over 30 years for $3K. When I got it home and got a really good look it scared me so I immediately put it on eBay with the hope of recovering my input in the car. To my amazement I got a bunch of bids from Europe and the car sold for a few times what I paid for it. I was ecstatic with my sale so I started looking for a similar car to sell. A couple of months later one surfaced in similar condition, it had been sitting since the early 70s and needed everything. I called the seller and when I asked how much he wanted for the car he said that he had seen a car like his sell on eBay for $$ and that is how much he wanted. The car he was referring to on eBay was the car I had sold. Talk about being hoisted by one's own petard!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well it's the BUYERS that determine the value---not the seller, or appraiser, or even an occasional "home run price" on eBay.

    So, if people step up and pay, time and time again, a price "we" think is too high, then we're out of step with the current market IMO.

    But....*BUT*....one sale, one tin can, one MGB, sold for a "lot of money" does not set an entire market.

    Evidence of this would be to take the same tin can that sold on American Pickers for $500, and put it on eBay and try to sell it for $500. Or that Barrett-Jackson car that sold for double "book price"---advertise it and try to re-sell at that price.

    Often it can't be done---so if it can't be done, then the buyer who ponied up for the "high price" is....in the parlance of the classic car world....(I love this phrase)...."the buyer is currently ahead of the market". :P

    I had a guy ask me to determine the value of a really rough Ford Woody. I told him, and he protested....so months later he sells it for $15000 more than I said. He calls to say "you were wrong".

    But I don't think so in this case, because whoever bought it paid too much for the condition---it was a one-time emotional buy. Now he's in $45000 for a rough Woody, when he could have had a really sweet one for $90K. Can he get from his $45K wreck to the $90K beauty for an additional $45K? No way in hell.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited March 2010
    The same thing happened when "Antiques Roadshow" style shows became popular - suddenly everyone thought they had a treasure, and if they had something that even remotely resembled what they saw on TV or online, they'd price it at full retail at their garage sale. I remember when I was a kid, going out "hunting" with my parents on a weekend day, and always coming home with a carload. Today, it seems if you find a few things, you had good luck...although there are still scores to be had.

    Ebay messed things up too. It had huge prices in the early days on many items due to few sellers and many bidders...I think things are weaker now. It also glutted the market for some things. Many people also don't understand when someone sets a "Buy It Now" price on a given object, that it isn't worth that price if it doesn't sell.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Did the lightning leave a scar on the paint?

    I'd love to see what a lightning strike would do to a modern MB/BMW/Lexus
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    edited March 2010
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Did the lightning leave a scar on the paint?

    Nah, no visible marks that I could see. I guess it's possible that it wasn't a direct strike? Like maybe it hit a tree or something else close by, and then arced to the car? I didn't actually see it happen, just took my cousin's word for it.

    Years ago, my dog got struck by lightning. We had gone on a long trip out west, and left him with my uncle, who was living down in the mountains in VA at the time. The dog was chained to a tree, and one of my uncle's friends was sitting on the front porch working on a chainsaw, when lightning hit the tree. Both the dog and my uncle's friend got shocked, but both lived. After that, though, every time it thundered, the dog would run and hide. Can't say I blame him, after that!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Wow, putting a W211 through that seems risky...even though it looks like a big Van den Graaf generator or something.

    I'd be amused to see the gremlins that would pop up if a LS 600 hybrid or something really electrical like that was struck by a natural bolt.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    It's a good excuse for an old car when it acts up anyway...it would impress people too.
  • martianmartian Member Posts: 220
    A couple of years ago, my brother got rid of his M-B S500. He was really getting sick of that car-it was constantly breaking down, and costing a lot of money. He sold it to a guy who was shipping it to Greece-apparently, shops in Greece work cheap-they will rebuild the car and it will wind up as a taxicab on the streets of Athens.
    Frankly, I don't see how this is possible-the boat ride to Greece ain't cheap-and rebuilding an S500? That has to be absolute lunacy! Just the parts bill alone would be frightening. Of course, maybe there are cheap aftermarket parts available in Europe?
    Does this make any sense?
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....who is Greek, apparently had more than one car, uh, 'go missing' or were 'stolen' (this, coincidentally, would happen to cars in which she was hopelessly upside-down, or just tired of). She referred to this phenonmenon as "Greek Lightning", which I found amusing. :blush:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Maybe he was thinking a diesel conversion could be done? Was this a W140 or a W220? I guess shipping would be a few grand...so there's not much room for opportunity either way.

    Or maybe he wants to set a new record...probably should have picked a car like this instead

    In Germany I saw late model A8 taxis, late model S-class taxis, and a few 7 series taxis too.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    edited March 2010
    Let's see, 4.6 million km/ 11 engine rebuilds * 0.6 mile/km = 250,000 miles/engine. Exactly what somebody named Shifty indicated was around the most documented miles he's seen without major work - right, Shifty?

    I started getting into a discussion with someone over on 'diesels in the news' about how modern diesels are not really that much more reliable than gassers, but once they trotted out 'they're just getting broken in at 200k miles', I quit.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Again it's the Law of Large Numbers. If you cherry-pick one diesel owner who fanatically nursed his engine through 400K, that's a database of ONE.

    All you have to do to win this argument is take someone to a huge auto wrecking yard and read the odometers of every car that isn't smashed up and thus killed prematurely.

    Even IF a passenger diesel engine could routinely go 400,000 miles, the rest of the car wouldn't, so what is the point?

    Automakers' engineers are not stupid people. They don't design one component to outlast all the others by a margin of 3 to 1.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    20 lbs of turbo boost? GEEZ! :surprise: zoom, zoom, zoom, KABOOM!

    Benz Diesel --- oh, only needs a new wiring harness. Should be able to knock that out on Saturday morning. :cry:

    Pontiac Ferrero -- successor to the Ferrera, later replaced by the Ferreru. Having run out of vowels, Pontiac gave up.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    If that Fiero hasn't been wrecked, it would make a great donor chassis for some pretty neat kit cars. Drop in a tubocharged Quad4 and have some fun.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited March 2010
    260E diesel? Of course there's no such thing. Indeed, there might be a reason there's no pics of the engine...probably an old 240D lump stuck in there, or something non-turbo anyway. Might be a good parts car if the cosmetics are nice.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    Speaking of Fieros, here's a good history of them
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Maybe you could put all those parts into a trash bag and shake it up and an engine will fall out?

    Heck, just go buy a crate engine. Chevy HP is sooooo cheap these days. You could buy a bone-crushing engine for $4000 all ready to roll AND with warranty.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    edited March 2010
    that NX is just SILLY, by any yardstick (especially price). Period.

    But, y'know what, I'd take that Cressida in a snap (right this minute) if it's as decent as it looks. Quite the equivalent to a 528e, save for the ABS, but more power, cheaper to fix and $18k new then (as opposed to $30k for the BMW). Mom bought one new (an '86, same car) and it was quite nice (though the auto trans made noises, but caused no problems, almost from day one). She put 50k on it in its first year, sold it to a co-worker who (not kidding) had it til maybe two years ago and 300k+. Not terribly roomy, but '80s-Japanese-plush (lots of strange gadgets: Technics EQ stereo with next-to-steering wheel double controls, odd non-motorized 'memory' tilt wheel, auto-close two-way sunroof with 'beep' warning to remove hands, insanely thick Cadillac-like button tufted velour), pretty damn quick for the time (Supra engine w/~160hp.....I know, but it was 1985) and handled quite nicely. Crummy in snow, of course (RWD, automatic, 2900-ish lbs, I'd guess, w/most in the front, and no TCS back then). You could even get one with a stick (quite rare now), leather and headlight washers. Pretty trick.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    edited March 2010
    ....has officially hit its apex. What are you buying here (for $8000 at this point, with no sign of fervor slowing down), other than an incomplete (no motor or trans, even), completely disassembled bucket of rust and primer, a VIN and a build sheet (yeah, the latter two are the most important, I know)?:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330416489170#v4-38-
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    edited March 2010
    .....odd semi-gaudy '80s Japanese cars, this one's kinda hot (of course, the ad nowhere mentions the shredded-up top of the back seat, though otherwise it's close to flawless). And funny, at $9500 MSRP, inclusive of the two options mentioned below (fairly big bucks in 1981, I think), interesting that you had to pay for power steering and A/C, though the crazy EQ cassette (notice that's separate from the) stereo, two-tone paint, glitzy alloy wheels, automatic trans and power windows were included on this model. Gotta wonder what this thing will bring:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CALIFORNIA-ORIGINAL-1981-TOYOTA-CELICA-GTA-20-000- -miles_W0QQitemZ200453868244QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2eabfb4ad- 4
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,357
    The Celica is neat. However, I find it amusing that the stereo is in three pieces too. Its like they just kept adding components like you do at home. Hopefully someone preserves this instead of turning it into a drift car.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,805
    Too bad its an automatic.
    And those bumpers are a travesty on an otherwise decent design.

    But I don't believe the miles for a second. It has turned over once, I'm sure. The center armrest, driver's carpet, and driver's seat attest to that.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited March 2010
    That thing must have lived out in Palm Springs or something, thorougly sun-faded inside. It really needs to just be reupholstered - but who would bother to do that to such a car? I can't imagine someone paying more than a couple grand for it even if the miles are real. I'd rather spend my period Japanese money on a Cressida.

    I am shocked it cost so much when new, that 10K barrier must have been significant then.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    My tastes must be changing with older age, as in the past I used to absolutely HATE brown on a car. But I find that Supra to be pretty attractive.

    I'm not sure how $9500 MSRP stacked up back then. My grandparents bought a 1981 Granada coupe, and I think it was in the $8-9K range, as equipped (200-straight six, automatic, a/c, 2-tone paint, but crank windows etc). So in contrast, that Supra might not have been so bad, considering it was kinda upscale. In my mind, at least.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    81 Celica---pretty rough 20,000 miles. I guess maybe a large gorilla owned it?

    69 Camaro -- bidders are clinically insane unless they are bidding on a VIN plate. You should be able to buy a frame-up show quality totally correct '69 / 396 'vert for about $60K or less in today's market. So bidding nearly $10K for this pile of junk, leaves you maybe $50K to bring it back to show condition? Not gonna happen.

    Now if you want to counterfeit the stolen one in your garage, or pass a non-SS car off on the naive newbie, that's a different story.

    Also this car is not that rare. It would take you about 15 minutes to find a dozen of them for sale.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    Just remember, it's a Celica, not a Supra. $10k does seem high, but my '83 GTI was $9.5k or so.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited March 2010
    It's a highline Celica GT instead of a Supra (although the manual shows a Supra)...if it was a first-gen Supra, it might be worth a little more. Actually now that I think about it, a Celica GT with the different grille etc should be relatively rare...but it's a case of "rare, but who cares". It's an oddball survivor anyway, and I agree with the colors...I usually don't like brown, but it works on that car.

    Now that I look at it in detail, the interior does seem pretty weathered for 20K miles, even the steering wheel looks kind of worn, and the dash being slathered with Armor-All doesn't help.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Simply not credible.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I think the body-color bumpers and the split grille might have thrown me off with the Celica/Supra thing. I seem to remember the Celica just having a simple horizontal grille with no bar down the middle, and blackish bumpers...that rubbery material that would looks gray and weathered after a few years. Maybe that was the base Celica?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    Those bumpers might have been the base model. All Supras were fastbacks, but those years were more luxury cruisers instead of sporty cruisers, like the Supra GT version of the next body style.
    image
    image
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Over in the "Prices Paid" forum, I found the following post in the Pontiac G8 discussion:

    If you can get your hands on a new GXP anywhere, buy it and put it in a garage. It is one of those rare muscle cars, destined to be worth many times what you paid for it in twenty years.

    Seriously? I suppose from a perspective as to how many GXP's were sold, perhaps. But, I don't see these being worth $60-100K in 20 years.

    Discuss.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Seriously? I suppose from a perspective as to how many GXP's were sold, perhaps. But, I don't see these being worth $60-100K in 20 years.

    My guess is that if you're lucky, it might be worth what you paid for it in 20 years. Not accounting for inflation, of course. And then let's consider insurance, maintenance for 20 years, plus 20 years worth of storage. Even if you own a garage space, you're still tying that spot up for 20 years.
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