Are you currently struggling to find an affordable car that you want? A reporter would like to talk to you about your experience with car shopping; please reach out to [email protected] for more information.
Any downside to buying a hybrid?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Read the whole story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/19/GAS.TMP
"secondary suburban streets and divided freeways, there would be little time a hybrid's engine would disable"
Disable? What do you mean? My engine doesn't do this at all.
"Battery life and resale are unknowns at this time for any new vehicle, especially hybrids"
Battery life is already covered and regarding resale of any new vehicle, how are Explorers and Navigators doing these days?
"A vast majority of car buyers and non-automotive journalists assume 50mpg is going to pay for itself vs. any other vehicle on the market for their situation"
The vast majority of media reports display the few unhappy hybrid owners reports like a parade. I have personally offered my assistance to the media, as others have as well. The only single time I heard any of us interviewed was someone at that "green" site who was getting low 50's, and when the report came out he was embarrassed and made an apology to that community....because the reporter/editor completely twisted what he said around to a negative.
Time vs. money, I guess I'm rich.
The articles I have read did not trash the hybrids or say the suck. They just point out that they do not make good economic sense. The generallty like the concept and encourage the automakers to keep building more hybrids. The bottom line is you have to want that "green" feeling to get into the hybrid mode. Those with long commutes can justify the small hybrids on mileage alone. For the rest it is just technology for the sake of technology. Being the first on the block to have one.
If the American Public was convinced that Hybrids can "save the world" as you say, then the hybrid sales numbers would be WAY higher than they are today.
If all the articles would say "Hybrids save you a lot of gas and don't really increase your monthly car payment that much over a comparable gas-only car" then YES, I could see how America would be convinced.
But the articles are NOT saying that, and the fact that hybrids will be less than 3% of total USA sales this year is proof of that lack of education.
That's the Hybrid Advocate's Number One Problem - Lack of true, good information getting out to the American public. Incredibly, people still really do ask "do you have to plug it in?" and "how far can it go?" and "can it go 75 mph?" and stupid questions like that when asking about hybrid cars.
Once the "anti-hybrid" news starts to get countered by SOLID education and the hybrid costs come down, then maybe the public will get informed and get a hybrid as their next vehicle.
Once the Hybrid Camry hits the road in 2007, that will help a LOT because the Camry is the most popular car to get hybridization yet.
More ammo in my ongoing "the public needs to be educated" campaign.
from this story:
http://www.newtimesslo.com/index.php?p=showarticle&id=1398
* 45.2% of those who will purchase a new car will consider a "hybrid"
vehicle, while 38.0% suggest they will not consider the new "hybrids."
More education needed !!
From this story:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/10/20/146055.html
You also can't get traction control in an elantra which is important in rain and snow.
Driving mine in the chicago winters I have no problem whatsoever in snow and rain.
Lastly, extremely POOR resale value, though that has improved marginally over the past few years.
Well according to KKB mine is still about 25% of its sticker price for a trade in. However since I almost always drive a car till the wheels fall off resale value is of nothing to me.
Anyways back to the topic at hand, I do not see hybrids as an economical viable alternative in the near future.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Paying more than MSRP for (new) Hybrids, Depreciation/Value of used Hybrids
What's your reason for buying a Hybrid?
Hybrid Tips: Optimizing Mileage
Hybrid Gas Mileage: Good? Bad? As Expected?
to mention a few.
We simply can't go into everything in detail in this topic. Please try to restrict this one to a general discussion of possible downsides of buying a hybrid.
I'm going to move posts to where they belong, but we need YOUR help in staying on topic.
I have a GPS in both my Lexus and Prius...I will never buy another car without that feature...I like to go to different Golf cources in my region...I often travel to different cities with the Mrs....I like to go to new or different Resturants in my area...My wife and I enjoy going to garden shows and Garden tours...We live near a big city and because we do not go there real often once had trouble finding places...
We are all different and different needs and wants...I use my nav. in all the above circumstances ...If I just drove to work on the freeway and never went anyplace that was new or different....I wouldn't need a NAV. system either.
I Know I didn't think I needed one until I had one, until I actually used it and knew something about it's features and there are many other then just a Map quest type route.
As a point of interest....The Toyota Nav. is concidered the easist to use, it is very intutative and straight foreward.
The German systems require different CDs for Each different region of the country, I think they have 10 regions...Perhaps you can tell us what each of those CDs cost..Not to mention the Pain of storing them and having to fiddle with them when ever you leave that region
The Toyota/Lexus Nav. system has one CD for the entire U.S. and Canada.
I don't want to carry some hand held thing around with me...I assure you it doesn't have the features of my Nav.
People survived for a long time without ABS breaks...In Europe Stability Control is mandated in all cars and is concidered as important an advance in safety as seatbelts and ABS brakes.
And yet...Nobody on this board has said the Hybrid will save the world...Hmmm if someone has convinced us of that, why isn't anyone saying it?...Perhaps you can explain that to us.
First you put up the Aussi post where you claimed the batteries cost 5000 and again mention the 42 mpg...The Fact was that was a 03 Aritcle ...and the Aussi Dollar was about 1/2 the value of our dollar...
You DON'T plug hybrids in - that's why larsb considered the question to be 'stupid'. Perhaps 'ignorant' would be a better choice of words. All of the electrical energy used by hybrids is ultimately provided by the gas engine (batteries are either recharged directly by the engine or by regenerative braking). Hybrids are NOT plugged in.
You drive a hybrid right up to the gas pumps and put gas in it, same as everything else. The difference is you do it less frequently.
However, apparently some folks are modifying hybrids by adding additional batteries, a means to plug them in for recharging off of a household current, and changing the vehicle's software to allow for much more running on the batteries alone. These modified cars are called 'plug-in hybrids' and they offer the attractive theory that one could drive the car as a pure-electric car, using VERY little gas, for short around town trips, and then use the gas engine for longer trips (or when additional motivation is desired). I don't know how well these modified cars actually work in the real world.
I would put in a rebuilt transmission for about $1200 and keep on going. Two things with the Prius battery. First the $2600 + price. Second I cannot find anything on the Toyota website about the hybrid warranty being transferable. It is not just the battery you have to worry about after 100k miles. There are thousands of dollars worth of specialized electronics, sensors and computer modules. All those parts you can only get from Toyota or some wrecking yard. People are smart to be skeptical. Taking a wait and see attitude is the wise position on hybrids.
AND IT ONLY GETS 15 MPG IN TOWN AND 17 ON THE HI WAY.
CHEVY SAYS THERE IS NOTHING WRONG HA,HA,AND I JUST GOT A LOANER FROM THE DEALER 1/2 TON 4 DOOR AND ITS GETTING 19.8 MPH . CHEVY WILL NOT HELP ME CAN SOME ONE. :mad:
That's absolutely not true. Surf on over to AutoTrader.com and search used Prius cars.
2001, 61,000 miles, $16K
2002, 74,000 miles, $15.9K
2001, 74,000 miles, 14.9K
2003, 81,800 miles, 14.9K
2001, 83,000 miles, 13.5K
GOOD CARS hold their resale value, nothing else is considered. Maybe some of the "anal worry wart" people will avoid used Priuses because of some perceived battery replacement issue, but it will not hurt resale value as a whole.
Mark my words Folks.........:D
Not correct sir.
From Tailpipe Tally:
2004 TOYOTA COROLLA
(33.8 mpg, BIN 9)
12,500 miles/year 370 gal $714
7172 lb carbon dioxide
307.3 lb carbon monoxide
15.4 lb nitrogen oxide
7.0 lb hydrocarbons
2002 TOYOTA PRIUS
(48.6 mpg, SULEV)
12,500 miles/year 257 gal $496
4990 lb carbon dioxide
79.9 lb carbon monoxide
0.8 lb nitrogen oxide
0.8 lb hydrocarbons
The Corolla is vastly dirtier than the Gen 1 Prius, and gets almost 15 MPG less.
Good luck getting 50 mpg in a used Gen 1 Prius. Not gonna happen unless you wussy foot it to the extreme (in which case, if you drive comparably in a Corolla, you can average almost 40 mpg).
As far as emissions go, try taking a measurement on one of those used Gen 1s given the mileage numbers above and see if those numbers hold true after 5 years of use. I highly doubt it.
Enlighten me on the "Hybrids get dirtier are the years go by" situation....Why would you think that?
Don't all cars emit more over time? You think it's just a coincidence that older cars fail emissions tests more than new cars? Nothing can keep 100% efficiency forever. That's just common sense.
Also:
If you are starting at a very clean emission baseline and comparing it to another car which is considerable dirtier, as in our previous Corolla versus Gen 1 Prius example, then you are doing no worse over time by driving the hybrid when you compare it to the car which starts out dirtier to begin with.
In other words, if Car A is rated 9 on EPA, and Car B is rated 6 on EPA the year they both come out, then there is logical reason to believe that throughout the life of the cars, Car A is always going to remain 3 ticks cleaner than Car B, regardless.
but my comparison was between purchasing a '01 Prius and '06 Corolla (the original scenario). How many ticks has the Prius "lost" before the Corolla even got started? I think the difference gets narrowed enough that the environment would hardly notice.
One of my goals is to help all I can.....
Back soon with the 2006 EPA figures for the 2006 Corolla....:)
Actually the people saying they get 50 plus MPG are Hybrid OWNERS...
The one's saying otherwise don't own a New Generation Hybrid....
The 2001 Prius was rated 9 Air Pollution and 9 Greenhouse gases, 4.0 tons of emissions per year.
That's a BIG headstart for the Prius !!
Are you sure? I was told by a Toyota sales person that only the 3yr 36K mile warranty & extra purchased warranties were transferable. The drivetrain warranty was not transferred. He was not sure about the hybrid warranty. On a Toyota certified used car they do not include the traction battery in the covered components. Buying a used Prius is a real crap shoot.
HYBRID COMPONENTS
Case and all internal parts, transaxle mounts, seals + gaskets.
Hybrid vehicle Generator Assembly
Hybrid vehicle Motor Assembly
Hybrid vehicle Transaxle Assembly
Transmission Damper Assembly
http://www.toyota.com/html/tcuv/warranty.html
Bingo..! ... you hit the nail right on the head .. I've seen hundreds of these things traded, and you're right .. in the winter they're lucky to see the mid/tall 30's .. down here in the south with the tempatures being 85+ for 9 months of the year it's the same thing ....
Why do you keep debating with these guys.? ... they sound like one of my golfing buddies that always trying to tell me he can drive a ball 300 yds with his new McGregor club when he hasn't passed the 250 yard marker since he's had it ............ you must have the patience of a Saint trying to convince them with any facts ..l..o..l....
Terry.
Here are some Prius results:
http://www.newstreet.it/article_id_627_Toyota-Prius-Crash-Test.html
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/vehicle-safety/ancap/toyota/prius-2004.html
ADVANTAGE: PRIUS
Maybe a slight exageration? Did you get your first tradein begining in 99 or 2000? Heck we dont get hundreds of Camry's in two years at a Toyota store.
Were they traded at a Chevy or Honda store?
that's what happens when you live in a small aquarium .........
Terry
Question. Are the high mileage First Generation Prius still bringing the premium prices? I saw a loaded 2002 Prius with 92k miles sell for $9k.