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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • jl618jl618 Member Posts: 64
    I recently attended the LS460 debut at Portland, OR's Rose Garden - a very nice event.

    After climbing in and comparing SWB and LWB models, and returning home, I could not find where Lexus provides any comparitive figures on legroom measurements on the LS460, other than obvious vehicle total lengths.

    Edmunds does provide the following data for my wife's '05 Avalon which she thoroughly enjoys: front legroom - 41.3"; rear legroom - 40.9" - one of the highlights of the Avalon is back seat legroom.

    I am considering getting her an LS460, but I know she would not be pleased if the SWB has less legroom than her Avalon. - thus it would have to be the LWB model.

    For compative purposes I would like to know how legroom in the two LS460's stacks up with her Avalon.

    Has anyone found where Lexus provides the same information for LS460 models, and how front and rear legroom measurements are determined?

    Perhaps our esteemed HOST can forward this to the appropriate engineer.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    LOL, you're giving us a lot of "street cred" presuming that we're in e-mail contact with manufacturers' engineers. Hopefully, one of our very knowledgeable members can help locate an answer to your question.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • jl618jl618 Member Posts: 64
    Pressure is on !!
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    These are not aftermarket offerings. They are factory options. Touring suspensions and large 19 " tires. What makes them so good for touring. I want quiet comfort.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    These are not aftermarket offerings. They are factory options. Touring suspensions and large 19 " tires.

    Oh, alright, my bad.
  • elmer3elmer3 Member Posts: 20
    I just drove a LS 460. It is an great car. I am now driving a Mercedes E-320 wagon. No comparing the two even though the Mercedes is a great car. One of the features I really liked was with keyless entry when I would use one set of keys( in your pocket) --when I started the car all the mirrors,seat adjustments, steering wheel went where I preset the memory. With the other set of keys everything went where that memory was set--no more messing around. I love it. The dealer would not budge on the price but I am certain when things settle down and they get some inventory they will deal some. I am going to buy one. Happy motoring
  • iballiball Member Posts: 5
    LEXUS LS 460 & 460L HAS MISSED THE BOAT IN ONE LUXURY CATAGORY!!------REAR LEG ROOM!! 35.8 FOR THE 460, & 37.8 FOR THE460L. GET THIS------ THE CAMERY IS 38.3 [OTHER MID-SIZED CARS-LINCOLN MKZ 37.0, SEBRING 37.6"]
    I SAT BEHIND THE DRIVER'S SEAT [WHICH I SET FOR MYSELF @ 5'8"]ON A LS460, AND MY SHOES [INSTEPS] HAD TO SLIP UNDER THE FRONT SEAT TO BE THE LEAST BIT COMFORTABLE!
    CADILLAC 42.0, MB=42.3 LEXUS REALLY GOOFED ON THIS "LUXURY" POINT!

    ANY VALIDITY TO THE RUMOR THAT THE 460LS TKES 170' TO STOP AT 60MPH??-------BRAKES DON'T FEEL AS SMOOTH AS MY FRIEND'S 2007 CADILLAC.
    APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
  • dan67dan67 Member Posts: 51
    Oh...the details of a new car like the LS460. I'm just going to ignor the little nice ubiquitus things like automatic seat adjustments and keyless entry and unique stupid idiotic things like the auto parking gizmo that probably no one will ever use and more gears than you'll ever need. First of all, I am nearing medicare age and drive the 2001 LS 430 with 65K miles without many options and goodness it's a great car and simple too. I just can't tell you all the times I prayed for auto closing doors, and for the car to be longer, shorter and wider than my car. I can't tell you because I never prayed for such things. Oh the new LS460 is pretty nice looking for a boat both inside and out. And all the times I wished for a car that could go to 60 MPH under 6 seconds. Never! Of course, I only drove the LS 460 for a few minutes and it drove okay but I can't really get a decent test drive because the darn things are sold and immediately gone at almost all dealers who wouldn't dare cut the price a nickle. Apparently a bunch of you just have the newest model or somehow your ego will hurt. How sad that your ego is tied to a car rather than to yourself. So buy the car and go for a ride on our crowded streets where if you are lucky you average 30 MPH, and feel good about yourself at least until the next best thing comes available. Personally, if you are so inclined, I suggest you don't buy this boat and spend the money you save at a psychiatrist office and get on some decent meds to overcome your insecurities.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So, you're bitter dan? Why? Why deny me that thrill that comes from a new exciting car? You're a stick in the mud. ;)
  • dan67dan67 Member Posts: 51
    Yes Mr. Lvbanker. I am a stick in the mud. But to trade in a perfectly terrific late model LS 430 just to get the newer LS 460 is very narcacistic and infantile. We both know any excitement from a new car lasts about a month or so. Happiness, as you know, does not come from buying things. Happiness comes from inner peace. (by the way who gave you a license to practice medicine?) :P
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "But to trade in a perfectly terrific late model LS 430 just to get the newer LS 460 is very narcacistic and infantile"

    A generalization like that makes as much sense as snow in Miami. Give me a break Dan. You change cars because you want to and what drives you to do so are caused by many variables that range from styling to changed driving dynamics. Is someone infantile because they want to paint a room a different color even though the old paint is still fresh and looks fine. Are they infantile because thet want a 1080P TV with a high contrast ratio and a stunning TV picture vs a 720P picture with a lower contrast that is just a very good picture. People buy new things because they are better, safer and deliver more for the dollar than old things and because they have the money to afford the things they want. There's nothing wrong with holding onto your old LS430 and equally there's nothing wrong with those who want to experience a new LS460 or any other lux car. To generalize the way you do is crazy and very sad. Thank God all people don't have your attitude because if they did our economy would have died a long time ago. It's also too bad you have such a chip on your shoulder.
  • dssxxxxdssxxxx Member Posts: 69
    I traded in my 2004 LS430 with 20,763 miles on it (3 years old in October, 2006) for the 2007 LS460.

    I did it because I could. I did it because I wanted a new car. I did it because my car was 3 years old and I very rarely keep a car longer than 3 years. I have owned outright all but one of my cars (a lease) since I started driving in 1964.

    You don't have to have a valid reason (to some people) to get a new car. You only have to validate it to yourself. And that I did.
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    12 new Lexuses over the last 4 years, including five LS430s and one LX470. I do not think I am narcissitic or infantile. Can you tell I love cars, Lexus in particular?

    Back to the topic: I have taken the new LS460 for a short drive and want to go back for a longer test drive. It does have a more germanic feel to it, comparable to the Audi A8 and the VW Phaeton, but still different from a BMW 7 series or an MB S class.

    The big question for me would be, do I want a more germanic feel or prefer the old style softer Lexus LS?
  • mikeivanmikeivan Member Posts: 42
    Wow, where did you get that data? I have not been able to find leg room numbers for the 460. What did you find for front leg room? The 430 is one of the best at 44". The 430 rear leg room is 37.6, surely the 460L is way more than that! I thought the entire 10" increase in length went into the back seat. I do agree with you, interior space and comfort is a major reason for buying a HELC.
  • dan67dan67 Member Posts: 51
    Mr. Dssxxx: While I haven't had a chance for an extended drive in the LS 460 I think I buy Lexus because of it's comfort and more important it's reliability. So, not being in my 20's anymore, I go for "softness" as long as it drives competently. Also, I'm tired of hearing my friends with their pretty BMW's and MB complaining about constant problems and numerous repairs at snobbish dealers. I've owned a 2000 Porsche and they are fun on the exact right twisty road but a horror on normal streets and highways. Give me soft anytime.

    Mr. Cheng, I think you need to analize your reasons for getting a whopping 12 new Lexuses over just 4 years! I think I was right in saying that the joy (especially for you) of getting a new car only lasts a few months and then whatever neurosis you have starts the endless desire something newer. I doubt you will ever be happy until you (and many here) come to grips with that simple fact and find some inner peace. At least Mr. Dssxxxx kept his for 3 years which may be a carryover from earlier times when cars started to have problems in that time frame.
  • billsoterbillsoter Member Posts: 49
    Finding "inner peace" and wanting new material things are not mutually exclusive.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hmm, I'm thinking let's leave the psychoanalyzing for some other Forum... ;)
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Well for whatever reason or neurosis I may have - I did, in fact, trade my 02 LS430 for an 05 LS430, because the 05 had Bluetooth, Cooled seats, Rear View Camera, Park Assist, LED taillights, projector headlights, rear window shade, all of which my 02 didn't have. And, odds are, I'll trade the 05 for an 08 LS460L, because I can, and because I work hard, and because my company pays for it, and because it'll have a hard drive for my music, a plug for my I-pod, Self Parking, which I'll probably NEVER use, a prettier exterior and a much prettier interior, and more horsepower, and an 8 speed transmission....and on and on and on.....

    I do this unapologetically too. :confuse: I must be stupid.....
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    You're my kind of guy nvbanker!!! Tell it like it is brother!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • mitchellrowemitchellrowe Member Posts: 92
    Mr. dan67 :
    Hello , Happy Holiday Sir :
    Re : Analysis of buying multiple Lexus automobiles over short periods of time .
    Your Quote : I think I was right in saying that the joy (especially for you) of getting a new car only lasts a few months and then whatever neurosis you have starts the endless desire something newer. I doubt you will ever be happy until you (and many here) come to grips with that simple fact and find some inner peace. At least Mr. Dssxxxx kept his for 3 years which may be a carryover from earlier times when cars started to have problems in that time frame.
    The above may or may not be true . HOWEVER :
    THERE IS A DISEASE KNOWN AS " LEXITIS "
    lexitis effects individuals , or clusters of individuals ; AKA : groups of "LEXI'S" , that must fulfill a NEED
    TO OWN MULTIPLE lEXUS AUTOMOBILES IN A CONDENSED TIME SPACE , only to be described as a " living dream " .
    It is yet to be "proven" if the there are Lexus cars in the next life to " experience " with effection , or dislike .
    the only medication for "lexitis" is to acquire new models as they come off the line .
    eventually , the disease runs it's course after time , or
    a horrendous dealer experience .
    mitchellrowe
  • dan67dan67 Member Posts: 51
    Mr. Michell, Very VERY funny! LOL

    After serious consideration I pronouce you mentally well and you can keep buying Lexus's for you non-fatal disease of Lexitis and fee free to stop taking your other meds. ;)

    Dan
  • cloroxclorox Member Posts: 2
    iBall, I've got a comment for you. What's your source on the legroom calculation? I am getting 37.6" from Lexus' site for the SWB and judging by the pictures and everything I've heard there's about 5 inches of extra rear legroom on the LWB. Here's my source:
    http://www.lexus.com/images/ebrochures/LS/LS_Page_11.pdf

    For the LWB, that comes out to 42.4, larger than both the Caddy and MB.

    Doesn't sound like a "Goof" to me.
  • iballiball Member Posts: 5
    SPECS ARE AT CARS.COM REAR LEG ROOM 35.8" & 2 MORE IN. FOR THE "L " HOWEVER, I SAT IN THE "L" YESTERDAY AND IT SEEMED LONGER THAN THAT. BUT MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE 460LS STILL ETANDS. THAT IS, SETTING THE FRONT SEAT TO MY HEIGHT [5'8"] & SITTING BEHIND THE FRONT SEAT, MY SHOES [INSTEPS] HAD TO FIT UNDER THE SEAT TO BE THE LEAST BIT COMFORTABLE.
    IBALL
    LET US KNORW YOUR EXPERIENCE.
  • atlas7atlas7 Member Posts: 126
    I am 6'2" and have sat in the back seat of the SWB and LWB cars and had the front seat adjusted for my driving position. The SWB rear leg room is okay, not spectacular. The LWB rear leg room is phenomenal. I disagree with your comment that the LWB is only 2" longer than the SWB. I figure the LWB rear seating is at least 4-5" longer.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Just a tip - it's difficult to read messages posted in all caps, so a lot of people will just skip them. Also, generally speaking, using caps is interpreted as shouting. So it's best to turn off the caps lock when posting messages in forums. ;)
  • iballiball Member Posts: 5
    dear host
    sorry about the "shouting"! i hope those members with eye problems, especially macular degeneration truly appreciated the caps.

    iball
  • cloroxclorox Member Posts: 2
    Not sure how many of you were being forced to get the Rear Upgrade Package on the LWB model, but my dad was initially being made to get his LWB with that package since the dealer wasn't getting much LWB inventory without it, and I must say, cutting the trunk space by roughly 1/3 was a big deal for my dad. My parents are retired and only have one car, and when they do big runs to Costco, the big trunk matters. Their old car had 19 cu. ft. of trunk space, so even going to the LWB without the upgrade was a step down to 18ft. The addition of that option reduced it to 12 and, when I told my dad about it, he called the dealer and told them he'd just wait until they got the inventory he wanted. Lo and behold, the dealer said they could get it without that rear upgrade and that the wait time would be the same. I guess we'll see in a couple of weeks, which is when he's supposed to be able to take delivery.
  • 123itsdee123itsdee Member Posts: 11
    How many ls 460's have you all seen on the road ?? ive seen 1. i guess next year they will be all over like the past ls :shades:
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I've seen 2 I think, one for sure at the driveway of the Country Club, parked.
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    Very few. Is it perhaps because the price is up and the quality appears to be slipping based on Consumer's Union reports? I am hoping they wake up and bring the prices down to get their sales, visibility, and engineering recognized. Otherwise I will just keep my 2001 for a few more years. No rush.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Well, they are out of the dealerships before they come in. How about the reason is the car is all of 3.5 months old and is a 30K-40K sale target. I've seen about a half of a dozen in my area of NJ. I also saw very few S-classes initially, and still don't see that many, but that car was selling well then and and continues to sell well now. We're not dealing witha 450K annual Camry level sales here, we're dealing with upper tier cars that 95+% of the population can't afford.
  • dan67dan67 Member Posts: 51
    I've seen quite a few in recent weeks. My area is high income part of West L.A. I'm surprised to see so many being driven sloppily by little grey haired old (over 65) women. Haven't seen one driven by a middle aged man. A womens car? Meanwhile the MB S550 is far more numerous and seems to be car driven by younger (40-55) males drivers who drive pretty aggressively.
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    Very reasonable answer.
    In fairness, reading the Consumers Union article, it doesn't look like the LS460 has been tested yet.
  • hendjazhendjaz Member Posts: 155
    It is correct that the LS 460 is too new to have any CR reliability ratings as that will probably not appear until next year. CR did rate its predecessor, the LS 430, as its No. 1 Luxury Sedan in its reliability ratings. The BMW 7 Series was near the bottom and the prior MB S Series was dead last in terms of reliability. Not sure if there are reliability ratings yet for the new MB S as it may have been out long enough for reliability reports to come in.

    My 4 month experience with the LS 460L would indicate to me that it will follow the exceptional reliability lead of its predecessor.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    The ones I saw were all driven by the 45-55 crowd. One of my buddies has the touring suspension and loves it. He had the euro suspension LS430 before this. BTW - I've only seen 1 LS460. All the others I've seen were LS460L's.
  • mitchellrowemitchellrowe Member Posts: 92
    mr. dan67 :
    i have been cured of my case of " lexitis "
    all my lexus cars were sold INCLUDING the
    new LS460 . after speaking kindly about the 460 from day 1 ,
    the car developed it's own mind .( one mental case in the car is already 1 too many ) the worst thing i did in cars over the span of 42 years , was trade my 2006 LS430 .
    no more lexus cars for me .
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Mitchell, can you tell us what the car did? I haven't yet sprung for the 460, and still enjoy my 04 LS430, so am very interested in hearing your 460 impressions. Thank you.

    Renny
  • mitchellrowemitchellrowe Member Posts: 92
    mr. rennybosch : hello again , how have you been ?
    the 460 : from day 1 , i defended the brakes against those who questioned their abilities . however , when at a dead stop, in forward gear , with my right foot on the brake ,
    at a traffic light , i found the 460 frequently stepping forward . i applied more pressure with my right foot on the brake pedal . ( to note : i never watched the tachometer ) -
    i always thought it was the brake system .
    the automobile is so quiet and smooth , unless it is light out , i could not tell the 460 was creeping forward , until i heard ( ears ) creeping in the front brake (s) .
    on a very dark night , in the city , i was at a red light
    with traffic coming east to west . i crept out far enough to catch a 4 door sedan's rear wheel ( passenger side ).
    damage : the front license holder on the 460 , the other car's wheel and tire ( $ 600 ) paid to him .
    no one hurt . i do not consume alcohol , or medication that creats tiredness . time was 7:45 pm .
    that made me realize the 460 stepping forward , inch by inch , could cost me or others great physical damage .
    the 460 is gone , and the only other lexus i am holding is a '92 es that was my mother's . i don't drive it , i just like to see it .
    i hope i have been descriptive in my reply to you .
    mitchell rowe
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I've never heard a more assertive endorsement for Lexus in my life than the one you gave, mitchell - and now you're deserting the brand entirely? Well, one thing for sure, I'm hanging on to my 05 LS for a while, and see what happens...
  • rgswrgsw Member Posts: 333
    I'm also watching and waiting with my 2006 LS430. Not a year old until August. Maybe the 2008s will be better? :P
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm absolutely shocked that Lexus is having "first year issues" like American cars sometimes do. Of all the cars on the market, Lexus shouldn't. Yet they are??? I think there will be a flood of good barely used LS430s on the market soon, and they'll evidently command some price if the 460's get a bad reputation. They're starting to sound like BMWs, aren't they? Reminiscent of the 03 7 series...

    I'm waiting, and watching, and in no hurry. Actually quite content with my 430.
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    Yes, due the bump in pricing of the 460s, the 430 models are indeed worth more on the open secndary market.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The 460 is more impressive than the 430 - however, the migration of design is still rather conservative. It resembles the 430, and stays true to the DNA of the brand. Nobody can look at one and wonder what it is, unless they've never seen a Lexus before. Not a very aggressive departure from the 430. Not that that's a bad thing - unless you're Jaguar.
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    From a style standpoint, I almost prefer the 430. Quietness and ride are about the same as in the new 460L. To me the 430s appear a little wider and more substantial, and there seems to be more room on the inside as well as in the trunk. The windows are larger, particularly in the back. There is more space and roominess is the back seat in the L model, but I do not sit there. Both front seat passengers have enough room, but the middle console is now larger, so it feels just a little more confined. Perhaps I just prefer the familiar at the moment. Acquaintances who know that I am looking at a new one are literally lining up for my 430, when I take the plunge. There is no doubt that I will upgrade as I have an older 2001 LS 430. I really am upgrading for the warranty protection, new transmission and air suspension, and the electronic toys such as the hard drive for the Nav/radio, parking assist (the electronic probes, but not the autopilot parking feature), built in bluetooth for the phone, anticollision system and radar cruise systems, etc. There is no hurry, however, and I am waiting for the hubaloo of the new cycle to calm down before I buy. Truth be known, I also like the styling of the Mercedes, but the problematic reliability of the Mercedes, for the greater price would be a foolish investment in my view. Also, it seems that there is a glut of Mercedes driving around LA, so what is the point of trying differentiate yourself with one. Lexus is the thinking person's vehicle (yeah, I know this is arrogant in the Imus age, and of course Mercedes owners certainly think, but you all know what I mean). Same thing with the hybrid. Sounds good even though the battery slowly wears down and has to be disposed of eventually. Wonder how *that* will affect the retail value in 5 years. Meanwhile, it is new technology at a premium price--I would just as soon let someone else figure out whether it was really worth it in a year or two. By then the growing pains will be worked out, and if it works, that would be the time to trade up. The most important thing about cars for me is in fact the reliability. Crash worthiness is next. And the ride, for longer trips, is realy the comfort issue, as you want to arrive less fatigued due to the cumulative effect of lesser noise and vibration; I don't necessarily need to make a statement with a car, but I suppose that is a benefit when visiting restaurants and such, but the real issue is that I don't like the hassle of taking them back to the dealer to make them right the second and third times. I have had to do that just once in 7 years with the LS430. The brakes squealed after having the pads replaced. They claimed it was normal. But it wasn't, and promptly went away after they put different premium brake pads on. I don't think I have ever needed 600HP, even when I was flying light planes, so why pay for it. All too easy to get the 430s and 460s up to way beyond the speed limits without really noticing even without any extra horses. The cost of Gasoline is really the cheapest part of operating these types of vechicles, as it was for the airplanes. So why the rush to batteries. Seems like the smaller cars where fuel is more of the operating equation, is the place to perfect this technology, e.g. Prius and Ford Escorts. So far I have been satisfied that Lexus is the most reliable of the L classes, but I still prefer to let the growing pains get worked out before I invest in them. All you 460L owners, keep up the feedback. I figure that after 6 or 7 months, we should know better where the nuisance issues are; These are the ones that can easily be tweaked at the factory before delivery. So far I have heard of questions about brakes (seems inplausable to me) and some wind noise, but there are so few vehicles out there, it is really hard to know. Rain sensors can be a little sensitive, but cause little harm, and are easy to switch out. The vast majority of new owners really seem to be satisfied, but again it is early in the cycle.
  • iballiball Member Posts: 5
    To woppenhe: your 430 has 2 more inches of rear leg room than the 460 ls, the camry has 1 more inch of rear leg room than the 460 ls. quite a problem when you are considering criteria for a luxury car. your trunk has 2 more c.ft [20]than the 460 ls[18]
    The brakes are not as smooth as the NEW brakes & rotors, replaced under warranty, on my 2004 cad.dts
    I was really looking fwd. to this model oh well i'll wait another 8 years!
    The specs were obtained from cars.com, as the rear leg room is NOT published by LEXUS.I believe they are forcing you into the LS460L
  • fhagemannfhagemann Member Posts: 1
    Having just traded a '04 LS 430 for an LS 460L, the comment about more rear leg room in the '04 is just ludicrous. You don't need specs or a tape measure, just sit in both cars and use your common sense.
  • woppenhewoppenhe Member Posts: 61
    Were you addressing woppenhe or iball. Couldn't tell which of us were giving comments that you were calling ludicrous. Perhaps both of us.
  • knowspinzoneknowspinzone Member Posts: 91
    Woppenhe, I'd like to read your post, but its very difficult. Paragraphs are your friend. :)
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