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Buick Lucerne

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Comments

  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Everybody has the right idea here.

    FWD works better in snow as the most weight is on the drive wheels. It puts more energy on the ground. And a narrow tire is better here than a wide one. It puts more lbs per sq in on the ground.

    Yes, RWD works in snow as long as you are careful. The problem is that if the car skids, it skids with the rear end first. This is much harder to correct than if the front tries to break loose. A "snow belt" driver learns to handle this problem.

    On sheet ice, FWD/RWD makes no difference. So little traction nothing matters.

    For me, Lucerne needs to remain FWD. Even in Georgia we have had only one RWD car in the family in 15 years (7 new cars). Just add that 5 speed transmission and produce a reliable car.... :)
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    looks nice. Does anyone know if GM will add HID's to it any time soon?

    Also, do you think the whole buick line will get the portholes?

    They look good on this car.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    GM has not 5 speed for the Lucerne, just a 6 speed that will hopefully get in it soon!!!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Sedans and crossovers will probably get the portholes.
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    I believe the upcoming Enclave and Lacrosse Super will get the portholes.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    One of the points that I tried to make is that with traction control, RWD should no longer start spinning the drive wheels and send the car into a skid from the rear end. However, with RWD one probably should consider getting an extra set of wheels with winter tires to get the best traction in snow.

    It is not clear to me where GM is going with the last of the large FWD sedans. There were plans for a large RWD Buick sedan when the Zeta platform was still under development, but that platform was put into a hold to speed up deployment of the large trucks/SUV's. Now there seems to be a change in the RWD Zeta platform in that they plan a Camaro on a RWD platform, but this may leave the large RWD sedan on hold for some time yet.

    This was in the planning stages:
    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_2008_Buick_Lausa- nne.S178.A8183.html
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    We had a heated debate on the HID lights a couple of weeks ago. The consensus was that only one person wanted them and I was not that person. Please go back a few pages in the forum to see the comments.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    If thats the case then OK, i guess you guys are not like me, but when I see a 35-40K car w/yellow light it does not look modern to me. But if most customers don't care then its a good thing for GM and buick.

    This buick has all the credentials it needs to bring back buick's brand. It needs other cars in the stable to follow suit. I hope they redesign that lacrosse pretty soon. Nice car, missing many features and a bit short on style.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Your comments bring up a point I missed. Never having driven a car with Traction Control or the big brother Skid Control, you are right. These electronic devices will make driving any car on snow different. Much more safe, I would assume.

    Also, if you read enough comments on Edmunds.com about Traction Control and snow, it seems some complain that it makes driving up a snow covered hill (from a standing start) or getting "unstuck" more difficult as the wheels will not spin. My assumption is that they have FWD cars. Is this true, or... people just complaining? This is all new to me.....
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    It was my understanding that the portholes were limited to Buick's top of the line model historically.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    I'd suggest testing the Lucerne's lights for yourself. First thing I noticed was how bright the lights were in comparison to my '98 Regal and my '01 Camaro.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I looked in my "the Buick: A Complete history" and every picture from 1906 to 1952 had them. From then on most had them until 1979. Rivieras did not have them from 72 or so. Real Ventiports did not start until '49 though. Before that they were long grills or large air inlets/outlets.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Here's an article on the history of the portholes.

    http://www.prdomain.com/companies/G/GeneralMotors/newsreleases/200232218011.htm

    You're right that they had them on more than just the top of the line, although the number could vary depending on model.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,027
    The 3.4 is the same engine family as the 3.1, which was re-engineered at some point allowing the first generation 2.8 to be as large as 3.4 liters. The new 3.5 and 3.9 engines are newly re-engineered to, allowing them to become as large as 3.9 liters.

    I'm still unclear whether the 3.5 and 3.9 are based on the old Chevy Citation V-6 architecture. My understanding was that they were. For that reason alone I would avoid any vehicle that has them. If they are not stemming from that design I would be interested in knowing their origins.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    In my cars at least (95 Riviera, 98 Aurora, 2002 Seville) the traction control has an on/off button so one can turn it off.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Here is a website that has some information, possibly right:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Value_engine

    Note that the engine is based on the old design, but since the block is longer, the whole engine is really redesigned and one would think much better.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    The 2.8 L engine was an excellent engine and can easily top 200,000 miles if maintained. Mine has 131,000 miles and I look at it as just broken in at 100,000. Great mileage and reliability. Easy to do home maintenance on.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,027
    The 2.8 L engine was an excellent engine and can easily top 200,000 miles if maintained. Mine has 131,000 miles and I look at it as just broken in at 100,000. Great mileage and reliability. Easy to do home maintenance on.


    I have no doubt that the 2.8 was good for its time -- my father had one in a '82 Olds Omega and it was very good, if somewhat gutless. However its later iterations as the 3.1 and 3.4 today seem thrashy and crude. I was in a Chevy minivan with one tonight and moving away from a stop the engine sounded anything but refined. I can only assume that the 3.5 and 3.9 share similar characteristics. It seems a shame to put such an engine in a premium vehicle.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The magazines that have tested cars with the new 3.5 (without VVT, Malibu) have said it is a better engine. In other forums here at Edmunds, people who have driven the new 3.5's have said it is a much better engine. But these engines are not as refined as the DOHC 60 degree high feature V6 line that the LaCrosse offers on the top of the line series.
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    I read a lot of forums and don't recall hearing anything bad about the 3.5 L. I have driven a few and they are very responsive with more than enough power to out run quite a few Japanese cars. Felt smooth and refined to me. It's all in one's perception of what an engine should be.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes but the price difference is around $1500 between a DOHC and a "cam in block" engine. GM is offering a value engine choice.

    Not sure about the NVH of the 3.5/3.9 but the big difference would be that DOHC's require high revving to get going and the non DOHC's normally have lots of pulling power at lower RPM allowing the non DOHC driver to not have to rev their engine to death to get going.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    That depends on tuning. GM 3.6 liter DOHC V6 (in LaCrosse tune) has 225 lb-ft of torque from about 1500 RPM's to over 5000. The Malibu's 3.5 has over 200 lb-ft from 2000 RPMs to about 5000.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yep. The 3.6 is using new technology that does change things. With variable valve timing it can do a beter job of good torque at the low end.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Variable valve timing (VVT) does allow tuning for lowend torque and still provides high speed horsepower. The advantage that DOHC multivalve engines had was that torque would not drop off as the engine speed reached 6000 RPMs, although this was a function of tuning. But DOHC engines tuned for high speed torque would produce a lot more horsepower. Before VVT, tuning for high speed torque would usually reduce low speed torque. A perfect example is the FWD northstar engines, the base engine is tuned for low end torque, while the high performance engine was tuned to get 300 horsepower but low end torque was about 10% less.
  • sirius2sirius2 Member Posts: 43
    Dude, you must be pulling some type of gullibility test about the RWD being as good as FWD in the snow. I live in Michigan and I hate getting stuck behind the RWD vehicles in the winter time. Go try your snake oil somewhere else!
  • kkrinnkkrinn Member Posts: 14
    Friday night I took the Lucerne home for a test drive. Loved it. Saturday morning I took it back to the dealership and prepared my order for the options and color I wanted. I told them not to place the order until we talked on Monday. When I left the dealership I drove to the Lexus dealership and brought an ES 330 home on a test-drive overnight. Before I drove the Lexus, I was sure of the decision to go with the Buick. The Lexus ride was perhaps superior, but the Lucerne handled nicely too, I think in a different way. The Lexus is smaller, especially in the back seat, which is almost a show-stopper. The interior of the Lexus is a little nicer without as much hard plastic as the Lucerne. The ES 330 has a six-banger, is being replaced by a newer version next month, but gets better mileage than the four-porter Buick. The sound system I think is actually superior in the Lexus, over the deluxe Harom-Karden. The CD play and radio play is about the same, but my iPod sounds much better in the Lexus through the cassette adapter than though the audio jack in the Harmon-Karden, and I was surprised at that. The CXL is a new model and quite exciting. It weighs some 500 lbs more and very importantly (at least to me) is an American car. I've only owned GM vehicles in the past and now I'm flirting with buying a Japanese car and am conflicted about it. I'm weighing out the pros and cons and I'm really torn between the two. The Lexus will cost me just under 4K more, so that's a consideration too. Any comments posted would be greatly appreciated!
  • vantheman1vantheman1 Member Posts: 18
    I have always bought GM cars in the past, and this time I have flirted with the idea of buying a foreign car...and have test driven some....I have decided for myself that,particularly with GM struggling as it is, I will buy a GM car again...I would not do so, however,unless GM was still making some cars that are comparable in quality with foreign cars...this includes the lucerne, which i believe is a very nice car...i guess i am saying that for me a tie or something close to a tie goes to buying american..i am really troubled about the loss of middle class union jobs in our country, and i think it will be a sad day if american carmakers one day become a minor player in the auto industry or even shut their doors......obviously a personal decision.....good luck with yours
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    What I said was that a rear wheel drive car WITH WINTER TIRES is as good as a front wheel drive car with a set of average all season tires. Some tires are better than others, both all season as well as winter tires. The Car and Driver test included an all wheel drive car, and with winter tires on the FWD car, it was nearly as good as the AWD with winter tires. Winter tires did not seem to help the AWD much.

    The C & D test was done some time ago and is no longer on their website, but here is something newer: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=3467
  • splatsterhoundsplatsterhound Member Posts: 149
    Follow your love.

    Sounds like your heart is on the Lucerne.

    Drove the Avalon and the Buick and the Lucerne was much nicer in my opinion. Didn't drive the ES330. Too expensive, too bland for my tastes.

    Let us know what you do.
  • billingsleybillingsley Member Posts: 69
    I called Onstar and found out the "turn by turn" navigation on the Onstar is generation 7. If you want that, be sure to ask the salesman/woman for that option.

    Just FYI :D
  • vantheman1vantheman1 Member Posts: 18
    thanks for calling onstar...
  • kkrinnkkrinn Member Posts: 14
    Vantherman1,

    Thank you so much for that....You are so right. I'm buying the Buick! The tie goes to the American automaker!
  • celica8celica8 Member Posts: 42
    Sales are way up in March!
  • navigator89navigator89 Member Posts: 1,080
    That's right. 8690 units sold in March, and 22124 total for 2006.

    For comparison's sake, the Avalon sold 8697 in March and 22543 for 2006. Damn close numbers, wouldn't you say??

    Also, the Lucerne sold more than the Five Hundred, which was 7726, and the Montego which was 2225. However combined they beat the Lucerne.

    The Lucerne is a great car, and it is also selling pretty well as the numbers indicate. Just slightly behind the Avalon, it''s chief rival.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Lucerne is greatly restricted on the more uplevel options like the large chrome wheels and bucket seats. Also still in ramp up.

    Now the ES has been out there a long time and the new one is just getting out so we will see how they both do for this year! I would say the Lucerne competes both with the Avalon and ES. Size wize bigger than both, price wize straddles both.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    "Contact Us" tab at the "Help" link which is on the left side of the page. Quite frankly, I have no more influence over them than anyone else posting here ...

    lets all do this, meybe they will wake up and change at least the stats!
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Must be a vast left wing conspiracy :confuse:

    :D
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Yes M1, some kind of conspiracy.

    There are almost 1300 post on this forum and it seems like all those who actually own one have few if any complaints.

    Go to the Avalon forum and it is not the same. Of course if you buy a car you probably bought it even if you know the faults because the +'s outweigh the -'s of the competition.

    Then again it is probably a vast right wing conspiracy geting all the good comments on this forum!!

    Actually if you listen to some of the comments on the forums you see both sides of the coin. There are some who are so anti domestic it sounds like the Hitler of cars. No matter what, domestics are junk. If a media reviewer has that kind of feelings (and they are people too) then it is awful tough to look at a car unbiased.
  • 79customd79customd Member Posts: 87
    If it weren't for the domestics the Toyota would be what everybody pulled out of a kellogs cornflake box. The Americans built and perfected the auto and the Japanese got and improved the desighn and claimed it theres. If the Domestics are so bad why are they still here after being around since the early 1900's. The media can spin it any way they want and it might even sound good but that still dosen't make whats truely great desighn, junk. If your so dense that you are so against the domestics you can't sleep at night you have no buisness being on this forum. The main objective is to learn and to listen to others experiense cars. Not to put down other cars just based on where they are built. Enough said.

    Look at the figures. Whose still #1 automaker in the world? Do I hear a GM?? :shades:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Actually it was France with the first car, and Germany with the first gas engine car. And yes, it is not where they are built, but how they are built. You are correct in that respect.

    The first automobile to be mass produced in the United States was the 1901, Curved Dash Oldsmobile. The Buick also has a pretty rich history. Buick is well liked in China. Lucerne seems to be selling in the USA. Doing well in car reviews is not really nessasary it seems for this particular car line. Would not worry too much about what Edmund's thinks of this auto. If you like it, if people buy it without too much discounting, is all GM needs to worry about at this point in time. Being the automaker with a profit each year is the bottom line. - Loren
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/BUSINESS02/603300539/10- - 15/BUSINESS

    Very syrprising because they have not alwayse liked US cars, even if they are supposed to ;)

    It would be nice if the lucerne got the 3.9L, either the current once (240 hp) or the new one at the ny auto show (270hp) as a base engine. The would help sales even more.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Isn't the 3.6 in the CTS suppose to be best V6 they have? Is that a German Opel engine? Why do they need to have so many V6 engines? Anyway, the reviews on the CTS with the 3.6 seem to be favorable. Just a thought.

    As for a bias against GM by those doing the reviews, I suppose it is possible, though the one paying the bills, as in advertising dollars is at least in part GM, so it would seem like biting the hand that feeds you.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The CTS's DOHC V6 is GM's global engine and is used by Saab for sure. I think that Opel is also using it in some sizes, but their website is evasive or at least I was unable to find anything. The CTS V6's are expensive engines. The pushrod V6's are cheaper engines.

    I will say this, I think that they should have developed a small (3 to 4 liter) V8 to use in smaller cars like the CTS. This engine could either replace the DOHC V6 line or the pushrod line.

    I think that the w-platform (Impala, Grand Prix and LaCrosse) will end production at the end of the 2008 model year. I would not be surprised to see the Lucerne and DTS cease production soon after that. I do not think that the Lucerne is going to get the 6 speed FWD transmission anytime soon if ever.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    For the Lucerne to get the 6 speed automatic, the powertrain would have to get recertified for emmissions, a costly process. If the Lucerne remains in production after the 2008 model year, when the 3800 production ends, then a new V6 engine and transmission combination would have to be certified and the 6 speed could be added. However, if the Lucerne will only have one additional year of production (2009 model year), then it would make sense to only offer the V8-4 speed automatic.

    The six speed automatic is going into production for the Saturn Aura first. Production of the six speed will be limited and supplying more than the Saturn is unlikely. The Aura is an early 2007 model, so some all new 2007 models might get the six speed too, but they may be delayed like the Lucerne was. I would expect some early all new 2008 models to get the six speed. As time goes on, production of the six speed will increase, and the six speed will replace more of the four speeds, but this will take a couple of years at best (2007 to 2009).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Gm is down to 2 V6 families. the high value 3.5/3.9 and the High feature 2.8/3.6. At least here in the US.

    http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/r_cars/car%20eng%20trans.h- - tml

    Yes the 3.4 still hangs on in the Equinox/Torrent and the venerable 3800 in a few cars but they will be gone soon.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    Stop making this car after only 2 or 3 years. I believe that when the 6speed is ready for this car they are going to (based on their cost structure at the time) put in the high feature or high value v6 (240 - 270hp) as the base engine and probably offer a FWD version of the newer Northstar V8 (320 hp) as the top of the line version.

    The DTS would use the same engine, but meybe by then it would be more powerful in the DTS. GM needs these cars, especially the DTS to cater to "older" buyers who are very loyal to the brand and prefer this type of car.

    If they really phase out the DTS then its a bad business case for the Lucerne? After 2008-2009 they should have these cars on newer platforms, probably with available AWD in adittion to stability control.

    What do you guys think?
  • poncho167poncho167 Member Posts: 1,178
    You sound like you are giving these cars an unwarranted death sentence. The platforms may change like you have mentioned, but the Lucerne has been a hit and it wouldn't make sense to discontinue it especially since it is a new name and model. I see the name being around a decade or more.

    As far as the GM/Ford developed six speed goes it also wouldn't make sense not to use it in most of the cars. There is a five speed they can use as well, but the six speed transmission will spread across the line.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I don't know what direction GM will take, but their current product line for cars is not working. They need to bring out something new and exciting. The latest Motor Trend suggests that the W-platform will be replaced by a RWD platform that will make the Camaro affordable. That suggests that the Impala, LaCrosse and perhaps the Grand Prix will become RWD sedans. This does not mean the Lucerne and DTS (large FWD sedans) will move to a RWD platform.

    However, the Lucerne/DTS platform is basically the same platform that the 1995 Aurora/Riviera were on. These two models started production in early 1994. That make the basic Lucerne/DTS platform 12 years old at this time, and in 5 years it will be 17 years old.

    Since they have announced a 6T75 version of the six speed automatic, good for engines up to 300 lb-ft of torque, it does make some sense that they may use it on the Lucerne/DTS, but this may depend on just how much longer they remain in production, which depends on how sales are. I think that if they are to remain in production for 5 years, they need to sell a total of 1 million copies to be profitable.

    It does not make much sense to me to put a 270 hp V6 in the Lucerne and still keep the 275 hp V8. I do think that a pushrod V6 makes sense for the base Lucerne, then perhaps a DOHC V6 for the CXL, and the V8 for the CXS. But if the 240 hp 3.6 is used in the CXL, then the CX should have less hp, perhaps the 3.5 V6. Otherwise, the 240 hp 3.9 V6 to replace the 3800 makes sense. This all assumes that the Lucerne will be in production through the 2010 model year (5 full years of production - 500,000 to 700,000 total copies).

    I really think that GM needs to bring out RWD large sedans to get serious attention from consumers. Right now the Lucerne and DTS are only attractive to current owners of large FWD cars - that is current Buick or Deville owners. Neither of these cars will bring new buyers into Buick or Cadillac dealerships, and that is what GM needs, new buyers.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    "As far as the GM/Ford developed six speed goes it also wouldn't make sense not to use it in most of the cars. There is a five speed they can use as well, but the six speed transmission will spread across the line. "

    Source?

    I am not aware of a 5 speed automatic trans. for FWD at GM.

    For RWD, yes, 1 is currently used by Caddy in the STSs (except STS-v) for example, but not for FWD. And I don't see 1 at gmpowertrain . .

    - Ray
    6 speeds, no waiting?
    2022 X3 M40i
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I doubt the Lucerne or DTS or LaCrosse will ever see 2009 much less 2010 in their current architectures. Both cars were majors but heavily kept the old architectures. While they may not be profitable over their lifetimes due to lower than expected volumes (to be seen) they were meant to be short term models.

    Epsilon 2 will be the W car replacement as far as a high volume midsize vehicle to compete with the likes of Camry/Accord/Lexus ES. Buick needs a product in that size segment and it will probably be the LaCrosse/2009. The Large car is a dieing market and I see GM using a platform that is out there. If Zeta can be big enough then it will be the one, if not then Sigma. Or possibly the Lambda could be modified but I doubt it.
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