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Diesels in the News

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Comments

  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    2006 $2.58

    I'd be happy with $2.58 right now.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Posts: 423
    I'm wondering which manufacturer will be the first to offer a mid to large SUV, medium to large 4dr pickup or large family sedan/minivan? I'd say Chrysler has my bet so far. They easily could bring the 4L TD from Brazil in the Dakota or Durango, put ther Merc straight six in the 300/Charger/Magnum and I think the Chrysler minivan is already diesel in Europe. 320CDI (too rich for me) and the Liberty (too small) are already offered just hope they keep going. Though GM could pull a fast one with Isuzu and bring in the DMax quickly.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    EcoRacer

    69 mpg and 143 mph are from US site that I can not link to due to Edmunds TOS.

    Cool concept.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    I think the Cummins is the best domestic diesel.

    Unfortunately it's attached to the worst domestic truck :P
    To be fair, this was more true before the Ram redesign. These days, I can't really say.
  • rs_pettyrs_petty Posts: 423
    Too bad Lincoln doesn't put that 2.7l (even if it is half French) into their new Aviator - today's issue. I'd be all over it.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    That guy is a dreamer. Diesels will take YEARS to win over the bad karma that it has developed in the USA.

    Let's start maybe by making it LEGAL to sell diesels in every state before we start talking about diesels ruling the USA, OK? Alrightythen. ;)

    Hybrids are HERE NOW, getting better, super reliable (see the CU list of most reliable cars - many hybrids on the list, NARY a diesel) getting cleaner (2006 HCH is AT-PVEZ), getting cheaper (Toyota issuing commands to the engineers to cut hybrid component costs by 50%) getting more common (more new models in 2006 and 2007) and are awesome in regards to MPG (Prius marathon results 109 MPG in one tank.)
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Posts: 1,640
    personal preferences aside, diesels already rule with heavy haulers and farmers.

    I wouldn't swap my diesel tractor for any other power source.

    Can't wait to get my first diesel engine car here in California. Possibly the new generation Ford SportTrac.

    John
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Toyota issuing commands to the engineers to cut hybrid component costs by 50%

    I knew you couldn't stay away from the real action. Think about this. Toyota cuts cost and quality of the hybrid parts by 50%. Where does that leave the problem prone Prius. You can't just cut costs without giving up something. Will it be the already questionable longevity of the batteries?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    The Prius gets a 94% re-buy rating from JD Powers and a 97% "no problems" rating from CU and wins every darn car of the Year award when the Gen II Prius comes out, and you call it "problem prone?"

    That's just silly Gary.

    Just because a few cars needed a software update and the owners ignored the TSB does not make a "problem prone" car out of the Prius.

    Get real, please, you are smarter than that.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Diesel of course!
    Diesel Civic
    Well, not in North America. Won't be long though.

    quote-Indeed, with low emissions figures of just 135g/km of CO2, the diesel-engined Civic falls comfortably under the stringent European regulations.-end
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Is there anything that can't be turned into diesel? Nice to see so many sources of diesel fuel that are renewable.

    Jetropha Seed Diesel
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Don't Diss Diesels

    Do the math, then buy a diesel.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Posts: 1,640
    great, but I can't buy anything for commuting in CA.

    Hopefully 2007 will be the breakthrough year in CA, but I am not holding my breath.

    John
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    French Fry Fuel

    Diesel, the possibilites are endless.
  • mitchcmitchc Posts: 39
    Interesting article pointing out that an F-350 and Ford Explorer owner are both very interested by the Jetta TDI at the Seattle Auto Show. Diesels have a future in American Cars:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/246886_autoshow03.html
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05308/600484.stm

    "Gasoline prices may have eased, but diesel still has truckers, others feeling pain at the pump"
  • Keep in mind diesel is not inherently more expensive then gasoline, even ULSD. Actually quite the contrary. It's easier and cheaper to make diesel. Plus biodiesel production should ramp up and push its price down as time goes on.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,131
    read a couple of interesting pieces yesterday while catching up with my magazines. One was in Autoweek, and the other in MotorTrend. One of them was a column.

    Anyway, the column guy (angus Mckenzie?) was describing living in England with some diesels (BMW 7 series and a big Audi). Basically described behavior that most American's would love (think gobs of right now torque), with excellent MPG for their size and performance.

    The other real interesting article, and something that I think will lead toward a shift toward diesels in general, is new research/technology for making alternate bio fuels more efficiently. The piece I remember is a new process for extracting fuel from the whole corn unit (cob, etc.), not just the kernels like they do today. Also said that many other products, including waste paper, could be the raw material source.

    If you want energy self sufficiency, this makes sense. A bunch of militants can shut of the flow of crude from the Middle East, but I don't think the US is going to run out of space to grow corn or soy beans.

    WOuldn't it be nice if you could just swing into the local gas station for a tank of bio, instead of having to stop at the local Wendy's and brewing your own?

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,131
    Also, the gist of the one piece was that Katrina might have a silver lining, in that it pointed out the dangers of oil dependancy, not to mention how high strung the infrasturcture is. Plus, the chock of $3+ gas might finally get people galvanized (and the gov't) to really work toward a viable long-term solution.

    besides, if some sap tappers in Vermont can make their own fuel, you would think that the vast technological might of the US could figure out a cost effective way to do the same thing on a larger scale.

    Finally, if my choices are driving an old VW rabbit that smells like French Fries, or walking, I'll take life in the slow lane.

    and don't foget, the more new cars switch to bio fuel, the cheaper it will be to buy gas (supply/demand). Especially if China gets on the bio bandwagon.

    Think of the possibilities: A "real" rice burner! :blush:

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • being a farmer, I like the move to bio.

    But I don't see big oil rolling over so easy. It will take a bit before there is enough bio-oil plants in the US to make a difference. Figure 2010 beyond.

    http://southeastfarmpress.com/news/110405-Corn-outlook/

    Even though ethanol is a bright spot for corn guys, no one is going to be planting just for bio diesel oil.

    John
  • Although I didn't read the article I believe the new process is called thermal depolymerization. There's a Butterball turkey plant I think in Missouri using it to process the waste from the plant into biodiesel, as well as several other products. There are a lot of interesting technologies being developed.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,131
    nothing is going to change overnight, but it seems like progress is finally being made toward a newtechnolgy solution for the future. Sure, anyone with a vested interest in oil won't be happy, but they will either have to get on board or be run over.

    Besides, there will certainly need to be a legacy gasoline infrastructure for a long time, but the supplies will last much longer if the bulk of new cars switch to bio (or a blend).

    This is how economics works, and why many smart people weren't that concerned about running out of oil. Basically, when it became neccessary (and profitable), new solutions would be developed. Cars replaced horses, buses replaced trolleys, nuclear power replaced diesel (subs), etc.

    The smart oil companies will try to get out in front. Really, what's the difference between taking biodiesel from a plant and distributing it to stations and taking gasoline (or petro diesel) from a refinery and distributing it?

    ANd, shouldn't be too much NIMBY action for bio diesel refinerys, especially if they are near the source (that is, way out in the country!)) Just try and build a new oil refinery in this country and see how far you get.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2585

    "Volvo: Diesel Is Clear Alternative In Most European Countries
    Carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas produced by the combustion of all fuels, is considered by many observers to represent the greatest long-term threat to our planet’s environment. The automotive industry has accepted its responsibility in this context and is working intensively not only on advanced engines and more efficient power trains, but also on alternatives to fossil fuels. Meanwhile, more and more people believe that the diesel is a better alternative than the petrol engine. For various reasons, however, the diesel is still regarded with caution and scepticism in some countries, including Greece, Sweden and the USA, where it is consistently overtaxed and restricted by law."


    “From the perspective of the US customer, the diesel is less attractive since low fuel prices there make the potential benefits small. In addition, there is widespread scepticism about this type in the USA,” notes Anders Eugensson of Volvo Cars who, as head of Governmental Affairs, liases with official agencies all around the world in consultation with representative bodies like ACEA in Europe."
  • I'm wondering if they say that stuff to justify why they're not bringing their diesels here? There is demand for it. Look at how much demand there is for VWs and the Liberty diesel. If I had the option of getting a diesel, along with the other options I need, such as AWD, there would be no question. It would be a diesel. But we are very choice limited right now.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    diesel is still regarded with caution and skepticism in some countries, including Greece, Sweden and the USA, where it is consistently over taxed and restricted by law."

    Over taxed is the key in the USA. Over taxing diesel costs EVERYONE with every purchase you make. Nothing appears by magic at the store. It is all transported by a vehicle burning diesel. If there is a travesty in our taxation system that one stands out. It costs less to refine and deliver diesel than it does gasoline. The taxes especially in states like CA are the reason gas is cheaper than diesel. It keeps the ignorant masses happy. They don't understand that they just paid 20 cents a pound more for apples because of the high cost of diesel.

    http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsPosts: 508
    And I was reading a few days ago about another process, that is available on a small scale for now, which can convert coal into petroleum products. With all of the US coal fields, we could produce enough diesel and gas to take us into the next century with no problem.. :D
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Coal to diesel was used by the Germans in WW2. It is still a little more expensive than just buying oil and refining. It will be used in the future when the price of oil gets high enough. China is already building facilities to convert coal to diesel. There is a lot of coal in the ground. According to the Sierra Club there is enough coal under Lake Powell to supply the USA for 25,000 years?
  • I also recall reading a post from someone in South Africa stating coal to diesel is used extensively there. Not sure about the quality, I guess it depends on the coal source, and the exact process.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    Australia also adding coal to fuel plants.

    the Latrobe Valley in eastern Victoria, Australia is the leading choice for what could be the first "clean" production of gas and sulfur-free diesel and naphtha in Australia from the processing of coal.

    http://www.iags.org/n092903t2.htm
  • Light-Duty Diesels
    Light-duty diesel (LDD) vehicles are cars, mini- and full-sized vans, and small and fullsized
    pickup trucks that use diesel fuel as opposed to gasoline. Today’s advanced
    LDDs offer turbo-charged high performance, high fuel economy, and low emissions
    incomparable to past gasoline and diesel engines. These new LDDs provide 45 percent
    better fuel economy compared to the equivalent gasoline powered car. Consumer
    reaction where these cars are available is positive. Prior to 1998 diesel car sales in
    Europe were typically 20 percent of the new automobile market. Since the introduction
    of LDDs in 1998, 48 percent of European new vehicles sales are LDDs. LDDs also offer
    higher torque (better response) and greater engine durability that make them more
    attractive in California’s market.
    Due to California’s stringent NOx emission standards, limited LDDs were sold from
    1998-2004, and no LDDs have been sold in California since 2004. LDDs cannot meet
    existing emission standards with the present high sulfur diesel fuels. Vehicle
    manufacturers have made significant investments in advanced technologies and are
    demonstrating prototypes that will meet the adopted 2007 standards. With the
    availability of ultra-low sulfur diesel fuel beginning in 2006, in combination with the
    advanced diesel engine technology, LDDs may succeed in meeting California’s
    stringent NOx standards. To be a viable, fuel-efficient option, consumers will have to
    overcome the higher initial purchase price, estimated at $1,000 to $3,000, and the
    petroleum industry will need to increase the number of diesel fueling stations.

    John (Sorry about formatting, copied from PDF)
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    One more year.

    Clean Diesel

    Just a little less than one year and clean diesel will be 90% of all on-highway diesel fuel.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Mercedes cleans up diesel

    It is taking too long to introduce ULSD diesel. The emissions regulations should never have been lowered until the ULSD was available.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Daewoo diesels
    With any luck, GM Daewoo will equal GM diesel in USA at some point in the future.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Canadian Chrysler Diesels

    Time to move to Canada!
  • nice! CRD, 6 speed manual minivan. :) We'll never see this here in the US.
  • betcha a donut it is here in 2007. The gasoline units are already here and are likely to do well. This will be an easy one for Mazda to bring in, and it looks like they are already getting experience with the emissions controls.

    John
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Nissan diesels
    Nissan planning diesels.
    Honda planning diesels.
    Daimler bringing more Chrysler and Mercedes diesel.

    Toyota, GM and Ford going hybrid.

    There are going to be some interesting times!
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,439
    A 1/2 ton diesel Nissan would be in my radar screen. The Titan is not very attractive. If it had a diesel that got an honest 25 MPG I would look past all the ugly.
  • cctdicctdi Posts: 82
    What is the chance or perspective for MB E420 CDI to be here in the near future? I know the M Class is going to come here with diesel engine equipped model, there is no info about the displacement of the engine; the 320 inline, the 3.2 V6 or the 4.2 V8 CDI? I would like to see the 4.2 in E in 4matic wagon form. I heard the Touareg V10 tdi is to be resumed in next a few months. I drove the V10 for over a year, a good car with a few glitches to annoy me, and it is too heavy and too much of the car for the no off roader like me. The Passat tdi wagon is a really good, reliable workhorse; I only wish the V6 tdi would be under the hood!
  • I watched Bill Ford speak on Cspan about the future of the auto industry. He mentioned "clean diesel" a couple of times in passing but diesel was basically completely ignored. The guy is fixated on hybrids.

    Now if I am going to buy a hybrid - which i would never do - would I buy it from bill ford? No. I would buy it from the Japanese.

    It is just astounding that these guys don't even see the radar image that there is a big group of us waiting here just dying to buy a small 50 mpg American Diesel car.

    Equally astounding is the stupidity of Volkswagen. They should be flooding us with TDi's. I am already turned off with the stories of people paying above msrp. If I could get a Jetta TDi wagon at a good price, I would write the check tomorrow. But no, they discontinue the Jetta.

    Looks like I will continue to drive my Econoline until one of the Japanese offer a compelling diesel.

    Bye Bye Ford
  • I would go for that Mazda 5 diesel in a minute and they would get a CR-V trade. I would trade my tsx for the euro diesel accord or the euro diesel Lexus IS. What the hell is the matter with the Japanese? why not give us the same engine choices as in Europe?
  • I really hope you're right! My wife's already said she like this. If they bring it here for 2007, it's ours for sure. I'll give up AWD and get a set of studded snows for it.
  • its all emissions... the US does not yet have the low sulfur diesel fuel that Europe has, so we can't make the required standards.

    2006 should be the first intro of the new diesel fuel in the US market, so we will likely see the cars (finally) coming in 2007. Nothing wrong with the manufacturers, we are dealing with a political problem here. But, Pres. Bush has indicated that this needs to be fast tracked so I believe we will see it sooner rather than later.

    John
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