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Comments
I offer the following....
On the 2000 Dakota, the A/C is controlled by way of the setting of the air-direction knob. (blowing the air on the windshield for defrost ALWAYS turns on the A/C compressor.)This is a STUPID design. When the temperature is below 0 degrees F and I want to melt 1/4" of ice off of the windshield, The LAST thing I want is the A/C turned on.
Many Asian vehicles have a separate button to control the A/C compressor independent of airflow-direction. That design is MUCH better.
So as to the TSB's, I wonder if Ford would label this a safety recall or put out a public "bulletin" out about this or keep it like Nissan does "between the owners". I'm not mad at Nissan but, just trying to be fair here, if Ford would make this public and go on record but, some manufactures wouldn't how can you possibly compare the 'numbers'?
Just like the argument I've had on a couple of other topics that "sales = quality" you have to consider your sources and what variables play in.
What's my point? Simple. If one company makes it policy to report certain items for a certain reason and another company reports different items for different reasons then the baseline isn't the same, where's the constant variable?! In fact reading alot of TSB's thrown around here are the secondary manufacture's fault, some are just discovered over time, most are no big deal...except to those that don't even own that damn vehicle. The reliability issue is ALL opinion anyway. What makes as owners "reliability" experts? Are we comparing it to...past vehicles that we've owned or to what we believe a reliable vehicle 'should' be? Talk about an inconsistent baseline. Lets take that Toyota five year reliability results that was performed by NHSTA, and take the Ford for example. This would be MY take on those numbers. Maybe one conclusion I would put money on would be(if the owners were ALL comparing it to past vehicles): I would bet that more than 85% of the owners were previous owners of Toyotas and with the Ford owners I bet at least 40% of those owners were consumers switching to Ford or willing to give Ford a 'try'. Now is that a fair comparison? NO because comparing what might be a normal occurrence in one brand(no matter what we think about it) to what might not have happened in the other brand isn't a constant variable. Especially if we are about different kinds of models. Like me for example, I've owned several different kinds of trucks in the past, but in March I traded my '95 Acura Legend LS for a '00 Nissan Crew Cab, what do I have to compare my Nissan to? Trucks in the past?, no because one was '86 samuri 4x4, one was a '94 S-10 SS and(my favorite)the third was a '81 Toyota 4x4. No consent variable there. Luckily I've owned 4x4's before and little things I know come with being a truck owner like the tires for example, hard to keep balanced, they're alot easier to throw off balance and alignment. There are several people that I know that have SUV's and complain all the time about this, I tell them that's just part of truck ownership. Those that might not know any different because they always owned cars might consider it a problem...the next thing you know it's a strike against the brand in a survey.
It's based on how often your vehicle has a part that needs to be repaired. It's not that difficult gang.
JD Powers long term quality survey, Consumer Reports, Edmunds. the NHSTA and every other magazine on the planet ranks the Toyota Tacoma the best in FIT and FINISH and reliability.
Why?
Because these trucks require the least amount of repairs, spend the least amount of time in the shops, have the least defects, and run the longest without major repairs, PERIOD.
the NHSTA and every other
magazine on the planet ranks the Toyota Tacoma the
best in FIT and FINISH and reliability.
NHSTA? Never heard of them. What is the content of their magazine?Where can I get one?
The TSBs you listed proves................? Other then you can cut and paste.
So,you believe the Toyota to be reliable and a decent offroad vehicle.Good for you.But,how does this apply,other then it is another opinion like ANYBODY elses here and carries a little less weight as anbody else's because of your presentation.It demeans your position.IMHO.
It sounds like Spoog has been brainwashed. Her buys based on what he reads not what he would really like.
I personally don't feel that Toyota has any soul. They can make good vehicles, but to most, a vehicle is an extension of our souls. When has Toyota made anything like a PT Cruiser or Viper. I can think of no radical designs or innovations that they have made. And spoog, before you go spouting that these are only rehashed old design, remember that there is a risk to bringing these designs on the market. In the early 70s, Ford, Dodgea and Chevy had extended cab designs that were poor sellers. Dodge and Chevy dropped theirs. Ford decided to continue it with the new 79 body style and even snazzed it up. You can see the market effect today.
If I bought according to the NHTSB, Consumer Reports and the like, I wopuld be driving a USED car that has a high crash worthiness factor and gets great gas maileage.
When debating, intelligent adults attack the logic or point trying to be made by the other person, not the person.
P.S. I would not mention the PT Cruiser in a debate if I were you.
The NHSTA is a government site that crash tests cars, keeps track of defects and reliability data.
They are a non-profit organization.
The fact that the Tacoma is the most reliable and best offroading stock pickup available is not "opinion", it is FACT.
" The Toyota Tacoma TRD handled the rough stuff better than any vehicle we have driven"
--4Wheeler.com
" The Toyota Tacoma yet again wins the 5 years reliability test"
----JD powers
All vehicles are good, some a little diffrent from the others.
Has it come down to this, or can we all be objective.
The NHSTA is a government site that crash tests
cars, keeps track of defects and reliability data.
They are a non-profit organization.
There is no such site.There is no government NHSTA site.Get your facts straight.
better than any vehicle we have driven"
--4Wheeler.com
I disagree with that.The Hummer handles the rough stuff best.
I guess "soul" in terms of a truck means the likelyhood that it will have a sticker of some cartoon character pissing on another vehicle manufacturer's logo.
Nevermind reliability and capabillity, I want a truck with "soul".
http://www.nhtsa.com
and
http://www.nhtsa.gov/
Seems like "a government site that crash tests
cars, keeps track of defects and reliability data.
They are a non-profit organization" to me.
I don't know, it seems as though some don't play well with others.
spoog,
don't mean to burst your bubble, but 'reliability' is 'subjective' they ask you the owner to rate the problems and reliability of you vehicle.
http://www.sptimes.com/News/082100/Worldandnation/Rollover_fear_tied_to.shtml
What spoog has consistently posted is NHSTA.The closest to a gov agency is New Hampshire School Teachers Association.He wants to deal in facts.Get his facts straight.
mahi: I wonder about the long term implications of the Firestone problem. I am not a Firestone fan, but it is an old established brand name. The way the lawyers are moving in and making demands that are not possible, I can envision a major dive for Firestone. At the least, I expect that when this is over, you might expect the Decatur plant to be shut down. The bad publicity will create a major withdrawal of manufacturers support, which will cause plant slowdowns or closings. No one has mentioned this in the news, but if the management of the plant did use old unservicable rubber as mentioned, how do you deal with who made that decision? Criminal charges would be difficult but not unheard of. Lawsuit? The lawyers will go after the big money, not an employee who would have nothing after attorney fees. It is a great philosophy subject, but hardly comforting to the friends and families of the victims.
I rolled a Blazer a few years back, and I was only going 40mph. I skidded, hit a 6ft deep ditch, and endo'd her right over.
Ya want less chance of rolling? Then, get a car.
A close relative of mine who owns a body shop has told me through his countless real world experiences with wrecks that large sedans are the safest vehicles on the road. A few years back I asked him what the safest vehicle on the road was, and he believed it to be an Olds Aurora.
I know that personally, I do not "hate" Toyota truck owners. What I do find irritating is that some, but not all, Toyota owners find it necessary to constantly remind the non-Toyota owners how superior they think their trucks are to everyone elses. The main case in point is the TSB postings about the Dakota. And this is coming from a particular poster who originally referred to the Dakota as "formidable" but now calls it "very, very, very, poorly built." This not only ruins the credibility of that poster, but generates animosity in those who read it. I guess it is a case of all Toyota truck owners taking the heat because of the misadventures of a few. That is unfortunate. On a related note - I also find it interesting that no Toyota owner has stepped forward and accepted mahimahi's challenge to describe a "quirk" that their truck might possess. I can recall postings of Frontier, Ranger, and Dakota owners. But none from Tacoma owners. If I am incorrect about this, my bad. However, I think it speaks volumes...
Although cthompson21, I gree with your relative about the full size car, I happen to think that the 2wd full size extended cab pick up has the best of all the worlds. Except that they don't go so far offroad, do they?
That piece of junk has easily been the worst vehicle I have ever owned and I will NEVER buy another Dodge as long as I live. I liked a lot about it, it was fairly well built structurally, it was comfortable to drive, decent power, easy on fuel, but it was about a 50% chance of it running long enough to get where I was going. This pile of junk has lived in the shop. It has cost thousands of dollars to keep running, and I can't trust it to drive to the store without breaking down.
It has had a glitch in the electronics almost since it was new and it seems to be unfixable, by me or the local dealership. It has been through 4 computers, 3 fuel pumps, at least one of every single sensor or electronic gizmo on the truck, the wiring harness has been checked several times and bits and pieces of it replaced, all grounds checked and some extra ground straps added, new distributor, probably other stuff that I have forgot, and it still won't go across town without quitting.
I,ve had enough, I don't care if it is a Toyota, Ford, Chev., whatever, it will be an improvement over the Dakota from Hell.
Now my ol, 65 F100, there was a truck, but I digress...
I think that Ford put too small of a tire on the Explorer in the first place. When you add too small of a tire to a 4000lb vehicle, underinflation, hot weather, and high speeds (I believe most of these cases was well over 70mph) you're only asking for trouble.
As far as the Firestone tire issue, I find it interesting that Ford is letting Firestone take all the blame. Ford has been paying off claims for years on those tires and even recalled them in several middle eastern countries a few years back. Now they're trying to act surprised that there's a problem.
http://www.strategicsafety.com/mainindex.html
Car manufacturers, domestic and foreign, specify what they demand in components, perform spot checks, but mostly rely on contractors for QC. When a contractor fails them, the auto maker takes the blame. At least Ford is making major effort to correct the problem.
"But what Mr. Nasser failed to explain is why Ford Motor Company has replaced the tires in at least a dozen countries including: Venezuela, Ecuador, Thailand, Malaysia, Colombia, Saudi Arabia2 and why Ford Motor Company has not done the same in the United States? It could be attributed to the fact that Ford would be forced to recall some 5 million models that have used the Firestone ATX, ATXII and Wilderness AT3 tires.5 Some consumer protection groups are arguing that Ford's decision to recall tires in other countries has something to say about their confidence in the Firestone tires."
Yes Ford has stepped up there involvement in alleviating this problem. But they did try to pass the blame when they had found it important enough in the past to deal with the problem themselves but would not mention it to the American public who they continued to sell vehicles to with the tires they knew to be defective.
In today's Wall Street Journal, Goodyear came to Ford's defense. they've been recommending 26 psi on their tires for years, and have never had any problems. a tire would have to be severely underinflated to cause these kinds of problems.
Allen-
By the way. There were some problems with alot of the Wrangler GSA's sold on Tacoma TRD's. Some were very rough riding. Goodyear would not admit there was a problem but Toyota would replace even going so far as to replace with BFG AT's a more expensive tire. So there is a precedence and one that involved a quality control issue not a safety issue like this.
likelyhood that it will have a sticker of some
cartoon character pissing on another vehicle
manufacturer's logo.
Nevermind reliability and capabillity, I want a
truck with "soul".
LOL!!!! This is the best thing I have ever read on these forums.
Reliability data is brought about by hard data and testing.
Consumer reports gets their data from the NHSTA and other sources.
The JD powers long term quality study is by folks who drive a vehicle fore 5 yeras SPECIFICALLY for testing it's reliabilty. Defects, safet recalls, TSB's and other factors decide this in the end.
Bottom line, Toyota makes the most reliable, best built trucks, period.
Ever watch those wildlife documentaries?
It's always a Toyota truck or a Land Rover.
They don't have repair shops on every corner in Africa...............................
So far, in under 30,000 miles, their Ranger has been riddled with problems.
HEre is a direct quote from Edmunds:
" The Ranger rattled like a diamondback offroad"
--Edmunds.com
since it was new and it seems to be unfixable, by
me or the local dealership. It has been through 4
computers, 3 fuel pumps, at least one of every
single sensor or electronic gizmo on the truck, the
wiring harness has been checked several times and
bits and pieces of it replaced, all grounds checked
and some extra ground straps added, new
distributor, probably other stuff that I have
forgot, and it still won't go across town without
quitting.\\
Thanks for the honest post Dcooper. Dodge definately is at the bottom of the barrel in reliability and quality.
If you want well built, quality vehicles, you are going to have to go with Toyota or Nissan.
If you want to know more about the Ranger, read the Edmunds.com long term Ranger test.....Im sure you dont want more of the same.......
999 JD powers long term(5 year) reliability test:
http://www.jdpower.com/global/jdpaawards/releases/images/vdi99.gif
Dodge finishes far below average.
#174 of 174: What are the most reliable cars and trucks? (spoog) Fri 11 Aug '00 (06:33 PM)
http://www.jdpa.com/studies/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=292&CatID=1
Bigal,
What happened with your post? Meredith didn't like it huh? Maybe she could answer why it was scribbled?
Alright alright...I've got another quirk. Now this one I have no excuse for because I definitely KNEW about it before I bought my truck. It is...the 16inch SE wheels/rims! I thought they would grow on me. But, it seems that they are getting uglier each time I see them. I would like to bend one so I could have an excuse to by different ones...I'm just kidding I know that's a bit extreme. I wish a tire manufacturer made a 31" tire in a 16" rim configuration I would go ahead and replace them soon. But I guess I will have to drop the big money on new rims and tires when the tires wear out.
As for stop making the vehicles with the defective tires, the tires were made several years ago and many of accidents were this summer. What do you think is being used as a replacement tire? Firestone ATs made recently which have a normal incident rate. As for testing the tires, according to my estimates, only one in 43,000 tires are reported as causing an accident. That is only .007%.
You want Ford to replace all 6.5M tires immediately. Shutting down the entire production of explorers and rangers for a week is only going to add 70,000 tires to the mix. It will help, but for them to shut down until all the tires are replaced is not realistic, especially to those who would be out of jobs during this. Do not forget that those tires are going to cost $325M. You expect Ford to pay for this, even tho Firestone was the one who failed to produce a tire that meet Ford's specifications?
You need to remember that while everyone is speculating about the problem, nobody has any evidence of what and why. Like most failures, this will probably be an accumulation of minor faults that triggered a reactive failure. They have recently decided that the crash of the 747 several years ago off the east coast was probably caused by a wiring problem inside the fuel tank. After millions of dollars in investigation, they still don't know. Remember the theories going around that it was a bomb, terrorist missile, U.S. missile, etc. And there were lawsuits being filed on all these theories. According to your premise, Boeing should have shutdown all 747 flights until the determination was made this week.
If my family was killed by these tires, I would be suing Firestone for making a defective tire, but I would not be kidding myself. We have these romantic notions about the noble fighters against the corporate baddies. The only problem is that the ones going against the corporations are often the real bad characters using a cause to make them money or promote their agenda.
GM accused of safety defects
On Friday, GM said financier Carl Icahn plans to buy more than $15M worth of stock
ATLANTA — General Motors is accused by a former company safety inspector of selling thousands of vehicles with life-threatening defects. The inspector alleges he was reassigned after reporting the flaws. Bill McAleer, a 30-year employee of the world's largest automaker, says in a whistleblower's lawsuit that his managers refused to act after newly manufactured GM vehicles with improperly secured safety fasteners were found in random audits. ''Audit results show that in excess of 30,000 vehicles having safety defects were delivered to North American customers,'' the suit says. McAleer doesn't know whether any fatalities or serious accidents resulted from the alleged defects, his attorney said. GM attorneys said the company dealt with the safety questions and that McAleer's transfer was planned before he reported finding defects. McAleer, 51, who lives in Woodstock, Georgia, and works with GM suppliers in Alabama, seeks back pay, benefits and interest, and unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.