I test drove an XLE V6 yesterday. It's a terrific car. The classy leather trimmed interior exuded luxury and comfort, the ride was quiet and smooth, and the power train (3.5 engine and 6AT) was the best I've driven.
Unfortunately, I can't buy one as it's way out of my price range (MSRP $29,176) and I bought a 2006 Hyundai Sonata GLS 4cyl in Dec. I love my Sonata but the Camry XLE V6 is now my dream car.
I believe you got a little tongue tied there, the Limited costs more than the Camry XLE V6, the lesser model Azera (can't remember the moniker) costs less than the XLE V6 Camry.
I test drove a 06 camry LE 4cyl. Comparing to my 95 LE 4cyl, the engine is noiser during acceleration and, in my opinion, not as smooth as the older engine. And the steering is too neutral. Very disappointing. But is does have a nice driver's power seat standard.
I also test drove a 06 accord LX and must admit it is a much better car, although I still don't like its front look. It has no power seat standard, but it has a telescope and tilt wheel so I can find a comfortable position.
I almost bought the accord until I drove the new sonata LX. That car rocks. Strong acceleration. nice ride on highway. But its interior does not look as good as accord. The plastic looks cheap but if you choose gray color it should look better. My wife also complained the seat cushion is too short.
now I am deciding between sonata and accord :confuse:
But the Azera has yet to prove to the world it has the genes to hang, like the loaded Camry can (basically a mini-Lexus). After test driving an Azera it left me bored. Minimal stimulation. Not to say the Camry is exciting, but I don't get the whole Azera appeal.
I took a good look at both the 2007 Camry and the Azera at my local auto show yesterday. The Camry left me really bored, although moreso in LE trim. I found the Azera to be much more "stimulating" visually at least than the Camry. Driving-wise, I don't know. The Azera looks like a luxury car to me. The Camry XLE looks like a family sedan with a nice interior.
The Camry is an exceptional $18,000-22,000 car. At $30,000, I can think of a number of cars I'd rather have than a Camry.
Yea OK. The Camry at $28K is pushin' it. Still a beautiful car. But the Azera didn't do much at all for me the way the Sonata does. The Sonata is probably as big in the front seats as the Azera and seemed just as quick, but was also nimbler. It was the better Hyundai to me, at least value-wise.
I think Hyundai should build a RWD luxury sedan. Probably will happen within a few years after they've completed their rehabilitation tour.
Hyundai already builds a RWD luxury sedan, called the Equus. There are rumors it is coming here in the not too distant future, although I think Hyundai needs to have some success with the Azera first.
Thanks to all you posters! My wife and I ended up purchasing the 2006 Accord EX V6 and both enjoy the ride. It is rougher and noisier than the Camry but the Accord is what she wanted. After reading the many posts here I will buy a 8 yr 100,000 mile Honda-Care warranty for peace of mind. I found one with $0 deductible for $936 and figure even if we have absolutely no problems we will have done well. As for price, we got the vehicle via the internet with mud guards, wheel locks, and protection package (with vin window etching) for $25,100 before TTL. Actually the dealership did not charge for the protection package and had to throw it into the deal to sell uss the car. Personally, I wanted the XLE V6 Camry but so far am not at all disappointed with the Accord.
Why dont you consider instead the '07 Camry? I'm surprised that you found the Camry's 2.4L noisier than the 2.2L of the Gen 3. Note that the 2.4L moves the car much more easily than did the 2.2L (which struggled at times), and also achieves 3 to 4 MPG better.
That said, the 2.4L was improved in NVH for the '07, so you may want to check it out.
I'm definitley buying a 06 Accord EX within the next 4-5 weeks. The only thing i can't decide is whether to get the I4 or the V-6. From what i've read here, everyone who owns a EX-V6 loves it. I drive about a 100 miles a day on the highway so mileage is a big issue for me, even though i wouldn't mind scarficing it for some "fun." Another concern is, are the V-6's any more expensive to maintain in the long run? I plan on driving this car into the ground (my current car, a 96 saturn has 220K miles on it and still running strong!). Also, is an extended warranty worth it on a brand new accord? I know warrantydirect.com has some great prices but i'm not sure if I should get one.
Any thoughts/insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone!
I'd say get the V6. It'll definitely take the miles better than the 4. And forget the extended warranty. The V6 Honda will deliver the reliability you're trying to insure all by itself. Invest the money, and if something comes up out of warranty, fix it with your stash money.
If you keep a car a long time get the V6. Then you won't go 10 years wondering what the V6 would have been like. Plus it will handle the miles better than a 4 while delivering decent gas mileage. The new Honda 6s are a blast compared to previous years' offerings.
If it comes to choosing fully loaded Camry XLE and Azera Limited, I'll choose Camry anyday. For the same reason that the Camry is exceptional at 18-22K but not at 30K, the Azera is exceptional at 16K to 22K but not at 25-30K.
It won't necessarily handle the miles any better than the 4 at all, will cost more to repair and it will use notably more gas especially over a 10 year period, but it will be smoother, quieter have more power.
Good luck finding a new Azera for anywhere close to $16k (i.e., Corolla territory). That is an extreme price even for the Sonata V6. You might find the Azera SE with no options down around $22k once volume increases. That would be a heck of a car compared to the base Camry LE with alloys that lists for a few hundred less than that.
Any thoughts from anyone on the 6 cylinder Accord vs the Milan/Fusion?
Both have a lot to like, and I think they are very close in value.
However, I urge you to drive and price the Camry and Sonata as well. Compare features, warranties, and bottom line prices on all 4 cars. I think build quality and reliability are fairly close in all 6 cars (counting the Mazda6).
I have a new 2006 Accord EX (cloth) with the 4-cylinder; it has more power than I ever use in a stop-go commute, or traveling at 80+MPH. There is always power left for the driver, even at high speed. The transmission is a marvel!
I'd go with the 4-cylinder, especially after a 40MPG 80 miles-per-hour trip I just took in my dad's 2005. I average 29MPG in town (9 stop signs, 5 miles of 65MPH, 4 red lights - my one way 14 mile commute). On the highway at 70MPH, I usually get about 36MPG.
The 4 will save you money in the beginning, and the end.
Here is a suggestion: Drive the 166hp 4-cylinder; if you have no qualms with the power (I actually was excited by how much scoot it had), get it. If you feel like you need more, or would enjoy $3,000 worth of power, get the 6.
That's what I did, and I got the 4 without testing the 6 (I have driven a 2003 V-6, and it is a BLAST, but for me, the 4 was the best car for the $$.
THANKS-GREAT INFO!! I actually test drove the 4-cylinder EX-L and i liked it, but it seemed a bit tame at first. I drive my friend's 2005 CRV a lot and I like the engine, which is basically the same as the accord i'm told. I'm guessing the engines react better after some break in time?
Well, the Accord engine was massaged for ten more horsepower over the 2003-2005 models (and all CR-Vs).
On the old SAE standards, the current Accord I-4 would be rated at 170 hp, which would make it identical in hp to the 1995-1997 V-6 model Accord (which cost $25,000-$26,000 new). Look at how prices for power, room, and efficiency have come down drastically ($22,000 for an EX cloth these days).
I don't know about more performance after engine-loosening, but it has been shown that many times that is the case in "Long-Term Tests" in many car magazines; improved 0-60MPH and 1/4 mile times (although most were less than 0.3 second difference).
The V6 in the Fusion/Milan is the tried and true Duratec 30 3.0L putting out 221 hp. Great engine. I have it in my 2004 Taurus. It has great power and a nice throaty V6 growl. The Fusion/Milan mate the Duratec 3.0L V6 with a 6-speed tranny. Most publications say this powertrain is a very good one in this segment. I've only driven the Fusion 4 cylinder 5-speed which was a blast to drive. It's the car I will probably get this spring.
Also, the Fusion/Milan is based on the Mazda 6 platform, which is also tried and true. The Fusion/Milan chassis is stretched for a better ride. I've driven the Mazda 6 and didn't like the road feel. (And feel it I did...every bump and crack.) Not so with the Fusion.
I'm coming from a 96 Saturn with a whopping 100 HP and 220K miles.
OK, i'm all set now. After reading all your input, i'm not going to bother test driving the V-6 (probably cause i'll want it) and am just going to go with the 4-cyl. But your driving seems pretty similar to mine and if you're loving the 4-cylinder,i'm cool with that (not impressionable or anything:)). I'm sure i'd enjoy the V-6 but like you said, the 4 sounds plenty. Now if I can just decide on the darn color!!!
BTW-checked out your car pics on car space-nice. Think i'm going to go for the graphite pearl as well, maybe the silver cause its easier to maintain the appearance of cleanliness on the outside.
I take it you have ruled out the Fusion/Milan? What makes the more expensive Accord that much more car than the Ford/Mercury twins? Since you were a domestic car owner with over 220,000 miles on your Saturn, why jump ship to an import?
I know I'm asking several questions, but I'm intrigued as to why a domestic owner, with what sounds like a pretty good track record on their domestic vehicle would choose to buy an import vehicle when there are several very good domestic choices out there.
If you haven't guessed, I support our domestic automobile industry. I live in Michigan and it's a shame how many people have lost their jobs here. Actually, it's kind of scary because I don't think the worst is over yet.
I understand about that. My car before my 2006 (I still drive it, actually) is a 96 Accord with 130 hp and 158k miles...probably about equally as slow as your Saturn (it's an Automatic).
Your going to hear stories and opinions galore on these to as far as the Accord / Fusion match up goes. There was a good MotorTrend article having the Fusion finish just a few points behind the Accord. Some will say no way, no how will Ford ever build a car as good as the Accord. Only you can make that choice. Go test drive both. Remember to test apples to apples. The Fusion is priced thousands less than the Accord for a reason. Ford needs this edge in order to gain market share. I have test driven both and Ford has made a great stab at this heavily heated segment. Let us know about your test drive and what you thought..
I sympathize with your feelings. That said, sending a check to the automaker just because you want them to do well is NOT the solution. As the previous poster somewhat touched upon, I firmly believe all cars, regardless of badge or nameplates, should be given a fair shot. If I was in the market for a midsize, I would give everyone a shot but I would not buy a car just because what's on the badge or I HAVE to support the automaker. Does the automaker really care about me?
As for the midsize competition, it is a crowded field, and a competitive one. Every car has its merits, as well as disadvantages. For example, starting at the top, Camrys and Accords have built their reputations; Sonatas and Fusions are the new kids on the block, which I feel will challenge Camcords the most (but they have to prove themselves). Sonata, by far, is the most bang for the buck - with standard features galore even on the base model. Fusion is about the same price as the Sonata - comparably equipped, however, actually costs thousands more than the Sonata. That said, I like the Fusion, except for the latest crash test results (espeically frontal rating which nowadays almost every midsize has achieved a "Good") - that does not sit well, and I am concerned. I hope Ford will do something to rectify the problem. I will pickup the rest of the class another time
If you haven't guessed, I support our domestic automobile industry. I live in Michigan and it's a shame how many people have lost their jobs here.
If you're supporting the domestic makes, why not support the Accord, Camry, and Sonata? They are assembled in the USA. The Fusion is assembled in Mexico.
Percentage wise, I would think more of the Sonata's cost is spent right here at home than all the rest. I may be wrong, but I bet I'm very close.
...Fusion is about the same price as the Sonata - comparably equipped, however, actually costs thousands more than the Sonata....
This statement doesn't make sense. :confuse:
Are you saying that comparably equipped, they're about the same price? Or are you saying that IF comparably equipped, the Fusion costs thousands more than the Sonata?
Accord - Honda, home-based in Japan Camry - Toyota, home-based in Japan Sonata - Hyundai, home-based in Korea
That's why I don't support those vehicles. It does not matter where the vehicles are assembled. It is about where the profit goes. We are supporting the japanese and korean markets by purchasing their vehicles in this country.
The foreign transplant factories in the US are not hiring in proportionate numbers the Americans who lost their jobs because of their increased market share in the US. The latest numbers I read last year was; over the past five years, 100,000 Americans who worked for the domestic automakers and suppliers lost their jobs, only 25,000 were rehired by the foreign transplants and their suppliers. To me, that is scary.
Also, japan and korea have subsidized much of the technology in korean and japanese-made vehicles. Sure, that allows Americans to purchase vehicles with more options at a lower price in many cases, but it's not a level playing field for the domestics to keep up with. Also, japan has been keeping the yen devalued. The bonus for them, their vehicles are sold way below where they should be in the US. Again, bonus for Americans who buy their vehicles, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
I appreciate your post/comments and I know exactly where you are coming from (I used to feel the same way). That said, I'd like to counter the points you made:
#1: Isn't America all about choices? Why restrict in one area when there are other players in the game, available for consumers to choose from, better or not. It's not about supporting the automaker but rather personal needs; finding a car that would fit consumers' needs the best, and would result in the best experience. For me, if I wanted to support an automaker, I would send in a check as a donation. Otherwise, I always look for a quality and reliable automobile, regardless domestic or import.
#2: If import plants here in the US are capable to produce their targeted amount of vehicles with their current payroll, I don't see why they would have the need to hire additional workers.
#3: Camrys and Accords are not exactly cheap, compared to the domestic counterparts and the segment overall.
I think it's all about choices. The USA-based manufacturers choose exactly what products to put on the market. Instead of producing the vehicles the American consumer wants, they seem to produce the vehicle they want to produce, then try to convince them to buy it with slick commercials. Seems the tail is wagging the dog. The Asian manufacturers are much more customer driven.
I agree the playing field is not exactly level. One particular sore spot is our exorbitantly high corporate tax structure. There's no wonder the domestic makers are struggling. The only remedy for that is to vote out any politicians who support such a high tax sructure. Its absolutely strangling our domestic manufacturing base.
Just when I thought I had my mind made up!!!!!! For some reason, the accords just appeal to me but I've started looking at the Milans/Fusion and I think i'll go test drive them this weekend. Price is a huge issue for me and the fact that I could get a nice loaded Milan (4-cyl) for around 20K could certainly be the deciding factor
this is somewhat off topic (but related to the domestic vs. foregin issue), but losing jobs in an industry is the way the economy works. If the auto industry doesn't need workers anymore, they will migrate to another industry.
I believe in buying the best product and value to maximize your enjoyment and financial status. If the domestics want the business, let them make cars that people want to buy.
Look back at the 70s when the domestics basically had no compitition, and got fat and lazy, figuring that people will buy whatever crap they produce. Throw up a protectionist wall (real or figurative), and they won't have much incentive to make a better product.
The cost issues (unions, etc.) will have to be dealt with, and are likely to really hit home with the next contract, but hopefully the outcome is a leaner, meaner and competive domestic industry that can crank out designs that compete favorably with the ToyHons of the world.
Blue collar workers in Michigan might not be happy, but it is a global economy we live in. And, it wouldn't be the first time people migrated to follow the better jobs, or the ones in their current industry.
OT, I saw a friend that recently got an '05 Accord Hybrid. Looks like my EX-l. He seems to love it (maybe because it replaced a '95 626 with a bad tranny and 200K on the clock)!
If price is a big issue for you, then you can do better than $20K for a Milan/Fusion, well equipped but not loaded. You should be able to get an automatic 4 cylinder fusion for easily in the $17K range or maybe even a bit less, and it will be well equipped but not "loaded".
Note most of those options which load up the price such as leather seats, sunroofs, high end stereos, automatic climate controls, etc actually are quite superfluous for most people when you get right down to it. Even the base or mid level Fusion has all the standard features such A-C, CD player, power windows and locks, remote unlock, etc.
It makes a lot of sense to check out everything in the segment you are looking at and drive them all. I was on an airplane last year and sat next to a guy whose right knee was so scarred up I had to comment about it. He said it was from his Honda CRV cupholder. I asked him if he noticed it when he took it for a test drive and he said he never drove it before he bought it. Why in the world would anyone buy a vehicle without driving it and seeing how it "fits" them?
If you can find a vehicle that fits you well for a great price, you will be more confident you made the right choice.
If price is a big factor then also check out the Sonata. You can get an LX (V6) for little over 20,000 or a nicely equipped GLS (I4) for about 17,000 to 18,000 depending on the amount of rebates you qualify for.
Maybe we should look at the overpaid, bloated, unskilled and uncaring United Auto Workers that take approximately 10 hours more (33%) more time to build an auto than their foreign US auto manufacturers. Feather-bedding and the US historic "workers against management" attitude (a leftover from some 70-80 years ago when socialism/communism was terrifying our US auto manufactrures) still today makes us non-competitive. This "who-cares" attitude of steel, autos, and many manufacturing plants allowed the "new" plants from overseas to gain a strong foothold.
Let's look at France, which is only now trying to control their post WWII socialist/communist unions - and we have futile riots in the streets. Capitalism and competition go hand in hand and the more non-competitive our work force becomes the more jobs go overseas. The US system of protective tariffs kept domestic manufactured prices high and let the rising countries get their foot in the door.
We heavily subsidized our steel industry, let the unions gain control of the product and marched US big steel into oblivion.
I still can't understand how US workers in the Toyota, Honda and Hyundai plants can produce a higher quality, better auto in 10 hours less than some "US UAW over-paid" workers can. It is a global market now, to use a much maligned phrase, and if we can't compete...we are unemployed!
Just because it takes a lot less workers in our own "foreign" plants to build a car, why would Toyota, Honda and Hyundai hire more than they can use...like the UAW insists?
Our jobs and what they pay are complex problems that will not be settled here, but until we get national goals (insist a worker's head)n that automatically pushes for excellence, then and only then will we start to solve which may not be a problem in the first place, but only a levelling of the world's work force.
Be patient and educated, the days of the uneducated factory worker is behind us...the future is educated workers at every level using the latest tools to do a job.
Right now, Ford is offering a down payment match. You put in $1,000, they'll match your $1,000. That's not too bad on the Fusion since rebates are minimal on that car.
Mercury is offering an awesome lease deal on the Milan. I saw an ad for $235 per month "Sign and Drive" for a 4-cylinder on a 39-month lease. No money down. That makes the Milan very attractive if you're a leaser.
Sigh...now vandalizing non-Ford products by Ford UAW (Un American Workers)...just what we have been expecting from rednecks and drunks...but not real workers who care about the USA and their company. It reminds me of the car carrier unions of the past that purposely vandalized autos that were just starting to ship via railroads.
No problem...treat the miscreants like miscreants were treated during other armed conflicts..."volunteer" them for the US Army, suit them up and put them on the streets of Baghdad....hahahaha! ...sigh, but then they may not be educated enough to understand how to fix a HummVee!
Maybe we should look at the overpaid, bloated, unskilled and uncaring United Auto Workers that take approximately 10 hours more (33%) more time to build an auto than their foreign US auto manufacturers.
mabey you should have a look at which plants topped the list of most productive and best initial quality in north america il give you a hint it isnt the foreign US auto manufacturers
not go down the road we're about to go down, okay? At least not here where folks are expecting that we're talking about the cars themselves.
I don't know whether we currently have an appropriate discussion over on our Automotive News board, but that's where the conversation can be held. If you don't see a suitable discussion on the list, you can either ask pf_flyer, or just start another one.
Comments
Unfortunately, I can't buy one as it's way out of my price range (MSRP $29,176) and I bought a 2006 Hyundai Sonata GLS 4cyl in Dec. I love my Sonata but the Camry XLE V6 is now my dream car.
Azera Limited: $27,495 MSRP including destination.
Azera Limited with Premium Package and mats (i.e., "fully loaded"): $30,080 MSRP
The Azera SE, which doesn't have leather so it is not a very good comparo to the Camry XLE V6 with leather, starts at $24,995 including destination.
The 2007 Camry XLE V6 with heated seats and mats is $28,726 MSRP including destination.
I also test drove a 06 accord LX and must admit it is a much better car, although I still don't like its front look. It has no power seat standard, but it has a telescope and tilt wheel so I can find a comfortable position.
I almost bought the accord until I drove the new sonata LX. That car rocks. Strong acceleration. nice ride on highway. But its interior does not look as good as accord. The plastic looks cheap but if you choose gray color it should look better. My wife also complained the seat cushion is too short.
now I am deciding between sonata and accord :confuse:
The Camry is an exceptional $18,000-22,000 car. At $30,000, I can think of a number of cars I'd rather have than a Camry.
I think Hyundai should build a RWD luxury sedan. Probably will happen within a few years after they've completed their rehabilitation tour.
That said, the 2.4L was improved in NVH for the '07, so you may want to check it out.
~alpha
Any thoughts/insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone!
And the V6 gets great highway mileage.
For the same reason that the Camry is exceptional at 18-22K but not at 30K, the Azera is exceptional at 16K to 22K but not at 25-30K.
The Honda is tried and true. The Milan/Fusion is new, not as common on the road, and less money.
Both have a lot to like, and I think they are very close in value.
However, I urge you to drive and price the Camry and Sonata as well. Compare features, warranties, and bottom line prices on all 4 cars. I think build quality and reliability are fairly close in all 6 cars (counting the Mazda6).
Bob A.
I'd go with the 4-cylinder, especially after a 40MPG 80 miles-per-hour trip I just took in my dad's 2005. I average 29MPG in town (9 stop signs, 5 miles of 65MPH, 4 red lights - my one way 14 mile commute). On the highway at 70MPH, I usually get about 36MPG.
The 4 will save you money in the beginning, and the end.
Here is a suggestion: Drive the 166hp 4-cylinder; if you have no qualms with the power (I actually was excited by how much scoot it had), get it. If you feel like you need more, or would enjoy $3,000 worth of power, get the 6.
That's what I did, and I got the 4 without testing the 6 (I have driven a 2003 V-6, and it is a BLAST, but for me, the 4 was the best car for the $$.
On the old SAE standards, the current Accord I-4 would be rated at 170 hp, which would make it identical in hp to the 1995-1997 V-6 model Accord (which cost $25,000-$26,000 new). Look at how prices for power, room, and efficiency have come down drastically ($22,000 for an EX cloth these days).
I don't know about more performance after engine-loosening, but it has been shown that many times that is the case in "Long-Term Tests" in many car magazines; improved 0-60MPH and 1/4 mile times (although most were less than 0.3 second difference).
May I ask what kind of car you are coming from?
The V6 in the Fusion/Milan is the tried and true Duratec 30 3.0L putting out 221 hp. Great engine. I have it in my 2004 Taurus. It has great power and a nice throaty V6 growl. The Fusion/Milan mate the Duratec 3.0L V6 with a 6-speed tranny. Most publications say this powertrain is a very good one in this segment. I've only driven the Fusion 4 cylinder 5-speed which was a blast to drive. It's the car I will probably get this spring.
Also, the Fusion/Milan is based on the Mazda 6 platform, which is also tried and true. The Fusion/Milan chassis is stretched for a better ride. I've driven the Mazda 6 and didn't like the road feel. (And feel it I did...every bump and crack.) Not so with the Fusion.
Good luck with your purchase decision.
OK, i'm all set now. After reading all your input, i'm not going to bother test driving the V-6 (probably cause i'll want it) and am just going to go with the 4-cyl. But your driving seems pretty similar to mine and if you're loving the 4-cylinder,i'm cool with that (not impressionable or anything:)). I'm sure i'd enjoy the V-6 but like you said, the 4 sounds plenty. Now if I can just decide on the darn color!!!
BTW-checked out your car pics on car space-nice. Think i'm going to go for the graphite pearl as well, maybe the silver cause its easier to maintain the appearance of cleanliness on the outside.
I take it you have ruled out the Fusion/Milan? What makes the more expensive Accord that much more car than the Ford/Mercury twins? Since you were a domestic car owner with over 220,000 miles on your Saturn, why jump ship to an import?
I know I'm asking several questions, but I'm intrigued as to why a domestic owner, with what sounds like a pretty good track record on their domestic vehicle would choose to buy an import vehicle when there are several very good domestic choices out there.
If you haven't guessed, I support our domestic automobile industry. I live in Michigan and it's a shame how many people have lost their jobs here. Actually, it's kind of scary because I don't think the worst is over yet.
Thanks for the compliments!
As for the midsize competition, it is a crowded field, and a competitive one. Every car has its merits, as well as disadvantages. For example, starting at the top, Camrys and Accords have built their reputations; Sonatas and Fusions are the new kids on the block, which I feel will challenge Camcords the most (but they have to prove themselves). Sonata, by far, is the most bang for the buck - with standard features galore even on the base model. Fusion is about the same price as the Sonata - comparably equipped, however, actually costs thousands more than the Sonata. That said, I like the Fusion, except for the latest crash test results (espeically frontal rating which nowadays almost every midsize has achieved a "Good") - that does not sit well, and I am concerned. I hope Ford will do something to rectify the problem. I will pickup the rest of the class another time
If you're supporting the domestic makes, why not support the Accord, Camry, and Sonata? They are assembled in the USA. The Fusion is assembled in Mexico.
Percentage wise, I would think more of the Sonata's cost is spent right here at home than all the rest. I may be wrong, but I bet I'm very close.
This statement doesn't make sense. :confuse:
Are you saying that comparably equipped, they're about the same price? Or are you saying that IF comparably equipped, the Fusion costs thousands more than the Sonata?
Camry - Toyota, home-based in Japan
Sonata - Hyundai, home-based in Korea
That's why I don't support those vehicles. It does not matter where the vehicles are assembled. It is about where the profit goes. We are supporting the japanese and korean markets by purchasing their vehicles in this country.
The foreign transplant factories in the US are not hiring in proportionate numbers the Americans who lost their jobs because of their increased market share in the US. The latest numbers I read last year was; over the past five years, 100,000 Americans who worked for the domestic automakers and suppliers lost their jobs, only 25,000 were rehired by the foreign transplants and their suppliers. To me, that is scary.
Also, japan and korea have subsidized much of the technology in korean and japanese-made vehicles. Sure, that allows Americans to purchase vehicles with more options at a lower price in many cases, but it's not a level playing field for the domestics to keep up with. Also, japan has been keeping the yen devalued. The bonus for them, their vehicles are sold way below where they should be in the US. Again, bonus for Americans who buy their vehicles, but it just doesn't sit right with me.
Base sticker for both the Sonata and Fusion are about the same, but when comparable equipped, you would notice a sharp price contrast.
#1: Isn't America all about choices? Why restrict in one area when there are other players in the game, available for consumers to choose from, better or not. It's not about supporting the automaker but rather personal needs; finding a car that would fit consumers' needs the best, and would result in the best experience. For me, if I wanted to support an automaker, I would send in a check as a donation. Otherwise, I always look for a quality and reliable automobile, regardless domestic or import.
#2: If import plants here in the US are capable to produce their targeted amount of vehicles with their current payroll, I don't see why they would have the need to hire additional workers.
#3: Camrys and Accords are not exactly cheap, compared to the domestic counterparts and the segment overall.
I agree the playing field is not exactly level. One particular sore spot is our exorbitantly high corporate tax structure. There's no wonder the domestic makers are struggling. The only remedy for that is to vote out any politicians who support such a high tax sructure. Its absolutely strangling our domestic manufacturing base.
I believe in buying the best product and value to maximize your enjoyment and financial status. If the domestics want the business, let them make cars that people want to buy.
Look back at the 70s when the domestics basically had no compitition, and got fat and lazy, figuring that people will buy whatever crap they produce. Throw up a protectionist wall (real or figurative), and they won't have much incentive to make a better product.
The cost issues (unions, etc.) will have to be dealt with, and are likely to really hit home with the next contract, but hopefully the outcome is a leaner, meaner and competive domestic industry that can crank out designs that compete favorably with the ToyHons of the world.
Blue collar workers in Michigan might not be happy, but it is a global economy we live in. And, it wouldn't be the first time people migrated to follow the better jobs, or the ones in their current industry.
OT, I saw a friend that recently got an '05 Accord Hybrid. Looks like my EX-l. He seems to love it (maybe because it replaced a '95 626 with a bad tranny and 200K on the clock)!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Note most of those options which load up the price such as leather seats, sunroofs, high end stereos, automatic climate controls, etc actually are quite superfluous for most people when you get right down to it. Even the base or mid level Fusion has all the standard features such A-C, CD player, power windows and locks, remote unlock, etc.
It makes a lot of sense to check out everything in the segment you are looking at and drive them all. I was on an airplane last year and sat next to a guy whose right knee was so scarred up I had to comment about it. He said it was from his Honda CRV cupholder. I asked him if he noticed it when he took it for a test drive and he said he never drove it before he bought it. Why in the world would anyone buy a vehicle without driving it and seeing how it "fits" them?
If you can find a vehicle that fits you well for a great price, you will be more confident you made the right choice.
Good luck in your search.
Let's look at France, which is only now trying to control their post WWII socialist/communist unions - and we have futile riots in the streets. Capitalism and competition go hand in hand and the more non-competitive our work force becomes the more jobs go overseas. The US system of protective tariffs kept domestic manufactured prices high and let the rising countries get their foot in the door.
We heavily subsidized our steel industry, let the unions gain control of the product and marched US big steel into oblivion.
I still can't understand how US workers in the Toyota, Honda and Hyundai plants can produce a higher quality, better auto in 10 hours less than some "US UAW over-paid"
workers can. It is a global market now, to use a much maligned phrase, and if we can't compete...we are unemployed!
Just because it takes a lot less workers in our own "foreign" plants to build a car, why would Toyota, Honda and Hyundai hire more than they can use...like the UAW insists?
Our jobs and what they pay are complex problems that will not be settled here, but until we get national goals (insist a worker's head)n that automatically pushes for excellence, then and only then will we start to solve which may not be a problem in the first place, but only a levelling of the world's work force.
Be patient and educated, the days of the uneducated factory worker is behind us...the future is educated workers at every level using the latest tools to do a job.
UAW tells workers to stop vandalizing non-Ford cars
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060314/AUTO01/603140343/1148- /AUTO01
Right now, Ford is offering a down payment match. You put in $1,000, they'll match your $1,000. That's not too bad on the Fusion since rebates are minimal on that car.
Mercury is offering an awesome lease deal on the Milan. I saw an ad for $235 per month "Sign and Drive" for a 4-cylinder on a 39-month lease. No money down. That makes the Milan very attractive if you're a leaser.
Hope this helps.
No problem...treat the miscreants like miscreants were treated during other armed conflicts..."volunteer" them for the US Army, suit them up and put them on the streets of Baghdad....hahahaha! ...sigh, but then they may not be educated enough to understand how to fix a HummVee!
mabey you should have a look at which plants topped the list of most productive and best initial quality in north america
il give you a hint it isnt the foreign US auto manufacturers
I don't know whether we currently have an appropriate discussion over on our Automotive News board, but that's where the conversation can be held. If you don't see a suitable discussion on the list, you can either ask pf_flyer, or just start another one.
Meanwhile, cars anyone?
Thanks!