I haven't been able to get 40, like thegraduate, but even he said it was very unusual in near-perfect conditions.
Right, I think 60-70 degrees is about perfect temp for mileage (like the 1 time I got 39.96 MPG). Otherwise, I've averaged around 36 MPG (been cooler or hotter, w/ AC use sometimes, heavier traffic others.
There is an element nationalistic pride raising the level of heat in these posts. To say anything slightly negative seems to insult the two most frequent posters' hereitage. National pride a very emotional feeling. Having a calm discourse about a hunk of steel, plastic and glass is often difficult under these circumstances.
'You must be lying' or 'You must be crazy to do this' or 'You have no sense of logic' replaces features and benefits.
So a rental that is a year old feels like a car that is 2 to 3 years old. This gives people a bad impression of the car.
Perhaps that's true of Impala's and Taurus's. But that's not what I'm hearing about Sonata's. I'm hearing that people are impressed with the quality, handling, power, and quiet ride. When they find out how inexpensive they are, they want a new one for themselves.
Unfortunately, a one time check of mileages isn't worth anything... you have to have specialized equipment if you aren't going to have an average of several tanks (read that lots of miles) in order to have any accurate rating of mileage results.. as I am sure you know.
Traffic is horrible here, especially where I have to drive. My usual daily commute is about 35 miles one way. About 8 miles of that is stop and go in the morning and usually much more than that in the evening. That being said, I've never been below the EPA city rating in either my 95 Accord or my 06 (of course, I've only put in 4 tanks of gas in the new one). I average in the low 30s and rarely dip below 30 on a tank. That was also true when I worked in the city and didn't drive on the freeway as much.
As I said before, I'm sure that would be the case if I drove a Hyundai or any other car. Most of my cars have been manuals and I'm a fairly conservative driver... most of the time.
I'm kind of anal about mileage... I keep records of every gas purchase and put it down in my At-A-Glance Auto record book.
The worst mileage I ever got as compared to EPA ratings was on my 1980 Datsun 200SX. I left the gas cap at the pump on a trip to southern Calif. and didn't notice it until the next fill-up.
Our shared interest in cars should make us friends, not enemies.
Shared interest will more likely cause competition than cooperation. For example, China and US over crude oil.
Back to topic, I believe consistancy is what buyers look for when purchansing midsized cars. Carmy has been good for 30 years. Sonata, no matter how well built, will still need several more years of good performance/value to reach that status. Same goes for Malibu/Impala. They may have decent quality ratings. But GM should make sure these models don't get dropped before they make a dent on buyers' mind.
Folks, we need to get back to discussing the features of the cars and stop the personal insults.
If someone posts something you don't like, please do not respond in a personal manner. Either ignore the post or, if you believe the person has posted something inappropriate, email the host.
I thought the first Camry sold in the U.S. was a 1983 model?
I have been participating in Town Hall for six years. Five or six years ago, I remember folks saying, "Hyundai has to prove itself for another five years or so before they will be contenders." Interesting that some people are still saying that. I think that dyed-in-the-wool fans of Honda or Toyota will have a hard time believing that a Hyundai can ever be as good as one of those brands.
Exactly backy! To say the Sonata is not a contender; well, then you are just fooling yourself
And the mere fact the Sonata (and Hyundai, for that matter) are drawing so much interest prove Hyundais are no longer "basement junk" (excuse me for using the term so loosely). Hyundai builds fine products that are just as good, if not better than its rivals (plus an incredible value and an unbeatable warranty to go along to each car).
The responses are not "the sonata? don't make me laugh", its not even toyota that is starting to worry but their followers too which def shows this car is for real. The new camry their top of the line may have the advantage over the sonata but you are talking about 3 years of difference and still the sonata is still holding its own(came third on edmunds test by 9 points 79-70). If this car is holding its own , even after a new camry, altima and accord , imagine the next sonata??
this is a respectful car now, with class leading safety and value
I agree. The difference in MPG with only a .25 gallon variance in 250 miles since the last fill can be significant.
This is where some people go "Koo koo" when they are new to trip computers. Whether using a trip computer or calculating MPG the old fashioned way, AVERAGE MPG should be measured over several fill-ups to get a true average.
Funny how some people figure gas milage. I recently had a bank branch manager complain about getting only 10 MPG in his Tuscon. He said he drives "about" 50 miles round trip to work. After he fills it up, the gas guage drops to "about" 3/4's tank after his round trip. His tank is "about" 20 gallons. So he figures he is using 5 gallons to drive 50 miles and coming up with 10 MPG. Try to explain it to him...forget it...he's a banker and knows all about numbers.
Just got newspaper with an AD "GLS V6 for $15,444 before $500 owners rebate"??? How they do that after paying Alabama workers 3 times more than workers in Korea? I have not seen such a good deals even when they bulit cars in Korea only. On the other hand, in Korea, 2.4L Sonata starts at $24,000, and 3.3L Sonata goes up to $33,000. Such a bargain in the USA.
On the same page: V6 GLS for under $15,000! 06 Accord LX special sale for $19,788. 05 Camry LE used certified for $15,899
It even scares me now....I knew Hyun-Mart will lower the price even more when new Camrys hit the road.
personally I hate the camry, especially the older camry. when i was buying a car, there wasn't a toyota on my list that i was considering. in other words, i am no toyota fan. but toyota does have a good solid history. you can't expect decades of favorable press coverage and millions of cars sold to people who had good experiences with them to be ignored. It takes much more than five years to build the reputation of a car manufacturer to the level that toyota has over decades. to many people this is worth a bit more money when buying new or used.
not everyone has the trust in hyundai that you have, but i bet more people do now than before. to those who too quickly dismiss the sonata...too bad for them: maybe when they open their minds a bit to statistics, they'll see it's a worthy choice. but to many, reputations of the past (whether real or not) still affect how someone views a brand. hyundai has made awesome progress, but they still have to carry this forward for some time to come to be mentioned as being at the same level as an honda or toyota.
Hardly a red Alert.. Since the Camry is selling all it can ship at $5000 to $10,000 more than the 'wonderful' Sonata I think that rather than an Alert... they are having a party since every Camry brings 25-50% higher price than the sonata.
Now they might be laughing at Hyundai marketing/sales departments for being so scared. If Hyundai was confident as you say then it would eliminate the silly rebates and go head to head with the CamCordAlt's just on the vehicles alone..
But NO.. Hyundai is not so confident as you my friend. They know that if they raised the prices to the level of the Japanese transplants the shipments from Alabama would go to...ZERO.
Hyundai can only fight for now on price..not on the vehicles. If they could then they would.
Spoken like a true and loyal employees of a car dealership. (Yes, dealers should make a profit.)
As a (hopefully educated)consumer, I would take a good hard look at a car that is better value (according to some of your prior posts) in some trim levels and about the same in the 6 cyl if I could buy that car for $5 to $10K less. In fact, I bought an '05 Sonata after buying mostly Chryslers for 30 years. Hyundai was better built, more features and a few $thou less than Chrysler.
Again, as you just said, Hyundai knows they cannot compete just on vehicle to vehicle basis at this time and must offer financial inducements...car for car they probably can, but based on past reputation Hyundai must offer the price advantage. $5 to $10K is a huge difference.
I also agree, which is why I continue to mention the specific conditions to that ONE tank, and otherwise get around 36 MPG on trips (I have an Excel Spreadsheet set up to monitor mileage...the last two fillups have given me just under 30 MPG because I have been driving to school mainly (mixed city/interstate).
You can't go by the gas gauge, just as you say. My gas gauge reads right on Empty when it gets to 3 gallons remaining, and half a remaining on the gauge means I cannot get anymore than 7 gallons into my 17.1 gallons tank. I should technically get 8.5 gallons into the tank if the gauge was spot-on accurate. Simply put, I agree with everything you say, here.
If the Honda can continue to sell closer to its list price than its competitors, even one that is much newer than the 2003-era Accord, isn't that a good thing for Honda? Am I missing something here?
When checking mileage, you can't go by the gauge, or the tank. You can only get an accurate calculation by using the gallons on the pump. Most people don't do it right, and that's why they come up with outrageous numbers.
The car should be parked at the same pump, and in the same position, for both fill-ups. If you park in a different position, your calculation could be way off (parking lots are not level, they lean for water run-off). And you have to stop at the first click-off too.
Which brings this point to mind. Honda spends much of it's profits on research, and developement. That's how they keep improving their cars every generation. If Hyundai doesn't make much profit on their cars, where is the research money coming from?
Hyundai Heavy Industries, the world's largest shipbuilder,Weapons & Depense system, Construction, Electronics,Offshore & Engineering ...Basically same as Mitsubish, but Hyundai is twice size of Mitsubish now.
Hyundai has done very well with this model Sonata. Honda and Toyota will keep improving their cars with every new model. Do you really think Hyundai can keep up with them? I seriously doubt it.
Have you ever drove a new Sonata? I test drove a new Camry LE few weeks ago. My LX Sonata was better car than LE Camry and still cheaper by $2,000. You could say XLE @ $31,000 is better car than my $19,500 LX. Yes, XLE is better than my LX. However, there are Azeras standing behind Sonatas with actual selling price starts at $21,400. XLE is nice, but I can't say its better than Azera.
"Do you really think Hyundai can keep up with them?" Yes! They did already and even surpass them if you compare same priced Camcords and Sonatas.
I suggest you to have test drive on Camcord and Sonata and compare the actual selling prices.
Why do you think Toyota pushed forward Camry's release date (6 months) if Sonata wasn't a threat to the midsize market.
You say Honda and Toyota keep improving, and I'd agree but at the same time don't you think Hyundai is doing the same thing? If anything, I'd bet Hyundai is improving at a much faster pace than Honda/Toyota did back in the days when they first made presence in the US. I firmly believe if anybody can step up to the plate and challenge Toyota/Honda/Nissan, it'd be Hyundai.
Your serious doubt is the exactly same thought people wrote off the Japanese back in the days where the domestics ruled the market. Fast forward to present, seems like we've got a delicate, yet similar situation on our hands, don't you think?
Research? What research? As other companies continue to innovate and develop new technologies for their cars, Hyundai simply put existing technologies into theirs. Maybe, it's the more than eight airbags (as claimed by someone in an earlier post) that the Sonata has. Pretty innovative indeed.
And since when has toyota or honda ever provided these two things simultaneously? So what does true innovation matter to the average consumer anyways
like i said before, it is really annoying to hear average honda or toyota buyers big up the XLE or top of the line accord, when it is just like a concept model to brag about , when most of the population can afford the 4 banger anyways
We, Americans, are proud of our innovations and technologies. We admire German engineering. We are learning Korean industrial automation. We like Japanese refinement. 2006 Hyundai Sonata is a wake-up call for US auto manufactures. A mag calls 2006 Sonata the shame of Big 3. Toyota considers Hyundai a true competitor. Hyundai is a rising star. No wonder that Time magazine calls Korean “Asian Jews” because of their achievements.
True enough.. reminds me of a friend who traveled 200 mile trip, on odometer, with a full sized station wagon, (GM) who filled up .. only 5 gallons.. so 40mpg .. amazing.!! However, problem was he had gone "off-road" and dented his fuel tank. (heavy hit on rock) collapsing it partially, preventing a true fill-up reading. Did make a good story though about his great increase in mileage during the trip. Some people can get stuck in more ways than one. Wheeee :surprise: :surprise:
I am an Altima fan but, the 07 Camry has cought up to Nissan in power, so where does that leave Altima. 07 Altima has finally cought up to the rest of the market with the extra side air bags and abs standard, it has a new suspension and upgraded interior. Nissan better make sure that the interior is on par or at least real close to the camcords,while keeping the price at current levels, otherwise gaining market share might be difficult. It might also help to make option packages simple and easy to configure. Old Mike
This is correct and it's also reality. The number of miles you actually drive in a month or a quarter or a year divided by the gallons you pump into your vehicle is your real fuel economy.
The CVT is a nice interesting development and worth the consideration IMO. The manual tranny in the V6 is something Toyota had and found that noone wanted ( no orders ) so they dropped it. The other features you mention are nice fluff items like a rear window shade.
With all due respect, I'd strongly suggest you do some research yourself before posting BS. Your wild claims would have some substance only if you knew what you were talking about.
The advancement of the launch date was to gain a 6 month advantage on the Altima and the Accord but mainly to take advantage of the strongest buying period of the year From 4/1 - 9/1.
They have found with the latest Sienna and Avalon that an early spring launch puts the vehicles alone in the market just as the buyers come out of hibernation.
All the vehicles being discussed are 'threats' and all are competitive even the 'Fu / lans' if Ford would just give them the features they deserve.
How can an 07 model be sold before 1/3 of 06 has passed? Next they will be selling 2010 models in 2008. There should be a limit on how far ahead of time a car can be sold as next year's model. If the car is re-sold in 2012, the person buying the car thinks it's 5 years old, when it's really 6 years old. They should at least have to wait until 6 months of 06 has passed, before releasing the 07. Either that or call it a 06 1/2 model. I don't think you can call it an 07, if your driving it in April of 06. Doesn't seem right to me.
Here is a huge point you are missing. What if Toyota and Honda and Nissan are using the Corolla and Civic and Sentra to fight the base model sonata's. Yes the Sonata is every bit as competitive as the base model AltCamCord's but rather than fight in the trenches on price alone why not allow the well-repected Civics and Corollas attract the $15-19K buyer.
Both of these models will outsell the Sonata as well. So as long as the compact vehicles can hold the line against the midsized Sonata then the larger Camry's and Accords and Altima's can take advantage of the midsized buyers who want to spend $22-30K for nicer features.
Right now the Sonata is focussing on just the value buyers which is OK because this is a huge market. Again if the Sonata can be kept in check in the $15-19K range where the Civics and Corollas exist then all is good with the world.
According to a recent article (Ann M. Job - AP - SF Chronicle 4/21/06) I read about the 2006 Kia Optima (referred to as the 2006.5 in Kia's marketing literature), Federal regulations do not permit an automobile manufacturer to post a half year model label on new car window stickers.
Interesting tidbits on the 2007 Altima. This mid-size segment is just too crowded, which is good because prices will fall.
What's really annoying is people who say a 06 Sonata is just as good or better than Accord or Camry. The Sonata has to prove it's reliable, five years and 100,000 miles down the road, before you can claim that. Initial quality means very little. JD power Initial Quality awards are a joke IMO. Any car is good right off the lot. But will it last, and be reliable? Only time will tell. There is no way Hyundai can claim that at this point. You are getting ahead of yourself here.
The Sonata has to prove it's reliable, five years and 100,000 miles down the road, before you can claim that.
Honda has to prove that they no longer suffer from the same transmission problems plagued of Accords, Odyssey and TLs. Toyota has to prove their V6s no longer sludge. We will know that five years and 100,000 miles down the road.
1) Automakers are allowed to sell 07MY vehicles as early as Jan. 1, 2006. Tahoe did.
2) The Sonata has proven its long term reliablity. Go check the stats yourself. Even in initial quality, the Sonata has constantly came in the top three the past few years, and garnered a few first place finishes.
Pictures do not do certain cars with a lot of style justice, i.e. Merc CLS. Let me tell you my overall impression from the NY Autoshow. The Nissan Altima is one of the best looking cars that will be on the market, period. Puts the Sonata and Fusion to shame and shows up the New Camry as well. The interior in person actually looks fine. The steering wheel does not look like space ship controls and the curves are as sexy as a stripper. It is something else. Anyone buying a new midsize, I'd say wait till September. I thought Nissan had ceded the midsize sedan market to every other company. Now I may definitely buy one. Only other compeition is the Mazda CX-7. In pictures that is okay, in person it is gold.
What if Toyota and Honda and Nissan are using the Corolla and Civic and Sentra to fight the base model sonata's [sic].
If so then I'd say Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are fighting an uphill battle. They'd better start fighting against the much-improved mid-sized 2007 Elantra instead of the full-sized Sonata GL, with its room, comfort, power, and standard safety features that none of those compacts match. If buyers of cars like the Civic would wake up and look at the Sonata and realize they can get a loaded full-sized car for the same price or less than the compact Civic, those cars might lose some of their luster. Of course, there are always buyers who are not looking for the most car for their money but really want a small car with great gas mileage, and the Corolla and Civic excel there.
kdhspyder wrote: "Right now the Sonata is focussing on just the value buyers which is OK because this is a huge market."
This is true. But, this is exactly what Honda, Nissan, and Toyota did in the past, before they became truly accepted as excellent products by the marketplace. In the '70s and early '80s the Japanese brands were taking sales away from Detroit and Europe based upon their value for the money, just as Hyundai is doing now.
The Korean cars are mirroring the impact of the Japanese, just twenty or more years behind the curve. I guess the Chinese are next, and then the Indians. It should be an interesting next couple of decades. If I was Detroit, I wouldn't be sleeping.
Comments
Right, I think 60-70 degrees is about perfect temp for mileage (like the 1 time I got 39.96 MPG). Otherwise, I've averaged around 36 MPG (been cooler or hotter, w/ AC use sometimes, heavier traffic others.
'You must be lying' or 'You must be crazy to do this' or 'You have no sense of logic' replaces features and benefits.
Perhaps that's true of Impala's and Taurus's. But that's not what I'm hearing about Sonata's. I'm hearing that people are impressed with the quality, handling, power, and quiet ride. When they find out how inexpensive they are, they want a new one for themselves.
As I said before, I'm sure that would be the case if I drove a Hyundai or any other car. Most of my cars have been manuals and I'm a fairly conservative driver... most of the time.
I'm kind of anal about mileage...
The worst mileage I ever got as compared to EPA ratings was on my 1980 Datsun 200SX. I left the gas cap at the pump on a trip to southern Calif. and didn't notice it until the next fill-up.
Shared interest will more likely cause competition than cooperation. For example, China and US over crude oil.
Back to topic, I believe consistancy is what buyers look for when purchansing midsized cars. Carmy has been good for 30 years. Sonata, no matter how well built, will still need several more years of good performance/value to reach that status. Same goes for Malibu/Impala. They may have decent quality ratings. But GM should make sure these models don't get dropped before they make a dent on buyers' mind.
If someone posts something you don't like, please do not respond in a personal manner. Either ignore the post or, if you believe the person has posted something inappropriate, email the host.
Responding with insults is out of line.
Let's get back to the cars.
I thought the first Camry sold in the U.S. was a 1983 model?
I have been participating in Town Hall for six years. Five or six years ago, I remember folks saying, "Hyundai has to prove itself for another five years or so before they will be contenders." Interesting that some people are still saying that. I think that dyed-in-the-wool fans of Honda or Toyota will have a hard time believing that a Hyundai can ever be as good as one of those brands.
WE BUILD EXCITEMENT...PONTIAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the mere fact the Sonata (and Hyundai, for that matter) are drawing so much interest prove Hyundais are no longer "basement junk" (excuse me for using the term so loosely). Hyundai builds fine products that are just as good, if not better than its rivals (plus an incredible value and an unbeatable warranty to go along to each car).
this is a respectful car now, with class leading safety and value
This is where some people go "Koo koo" when they are new to trip computers. Whether using a trip computer or calculating MPG the old fashioned way, AVERAGE MPG should be measured over several fill-ups to get a true average.
Funny how some people figure gas milage. I recently had a bank branch manager complain about getting only 10 MPG in his Tuscon. He said he drives "about" 50 miles round trip to work. After he fills it up, the gas guage drops to "about" 3/4's tank after his round trip. His tank is "about" 20 gallons. So he figures he is using 5 gallons to drive 50 miles and coming up with 10 MPG. Try to explain it to him...forget it...he's a banker and knows all about numbers.
How they do that after paying Alabama workers 3 times more than workers in Korea?
I have not seen such a good deals even when they bulit cars in Korea only.
On the other hand, in Korea, 2.4L Sonata starts at $24,000, and 3.3L Sonata goes up to $33,000.
Such a bargain in the USA.
On the same page:
V6 GLS for under $15,000!
06 Accord LX special sale for $19,788.
05 Camry LE used certified for $15,899
It even scares me now....I knew Hyun-Mart will lower the price even more when new Camrys hit the road.
Red Alert for Honyota.
not everyone has the trust in hyundai that you have, but i bet more people do now than before. to those who too quickly dismiss the sonata...too bad for them: maybe when they open their minds a bit to statistics, they'll see it's a worthy choice. but to many, reputations of the past (whether real or not) still affect how someone views a brand. hyundai has made awesome progress, but they still have to carry this forward for some time to come to be mentioned as being at the same level as an honda or toyota.
Now they might be laughing at Hyundai marketing/sales departments for being so scared. If Hyundai was confident as you say then it would eliminate the silly rebates and go head to head with the CamCordAlt's just on the vehicles alone..
But NO.. Hyundai is not so confident as you my friend. They know that if they raised the prices to the level of the Japanese transplants the shipments from Alabama would go to...ZERO.
Hyundai can only fight for now on price..not on the vehicles. If they could then they would.
As a (hopefully educated)consumer, I would take a good hard look at a car that is better value (according to some of your prior posts) in some trim levels and about the same in the 6 cyl if I could buy that car for $5 to $10K less. In fact, I bought an '05 Sonata after buying mostly Chryslers for 30 years. Hyundai was better built, more features and a few $thou less than Chrysler.
Again, as you just said, Hyundai knows they cannot compete just on vehicle to vehicle basis at this time and must offer financial inducements...car for car they probably can, but based on past reputation Hyundai must offer the price advantage. $5 to $10K is a huge difference.
You can't go by the gas gauge, just as you say. My gas gauge reads right on Empty when it gets to 3 gallons remaining, and half a remaining on the gauge means I cannot get anymore than 7 gallons into my 17.1 gallons tank. I should technically get 8.5 gallons into the tank if the gauge was spot-on accurate. Simply put, I agree with everything you say, here.
The car should be parked at the same pump, and in the same position, for both fill-ups. If you park in a different position, your calculation could be way off (parking lots are not level, they lean for water run-off). And you have to stop at the first click-off too.
It seems the Altima will have everything that the Camry has, plus:
CVT
Manual with V6
Rearview monitor
Xenon lights
6 disc changer w/ nav (somehow, Toyota downgrades your CD capacity to 4 when you get nav)
Wonder if this means that the Altima is a generation ahead of the Camry. Maybe half a generation?
...Basically same as Mitsubish, but Hyundai is twice size of Mitsubish now.
I test drove a new Camry LE few weeks ago.
My LX Sonata was better car than LE Camry and still cheaper by $2,000.
You could say XLE @ $31,000 is better car than my $19,500 LX. Yes, XLE is better than my LX.
However, there are Azeras standing behind Sonatas with actual selling price starts at $21,400. XLE is nice, but I can't say its better than Azera.
"Do you really think Hyundai can keep up with them?"
Yes! They did already and even surpass them if you compare same priced Camcords and Sonatas.
I suggest you to have test drive on Camcord and Sonata and compare the actual selling prices.
Why do you think Toyota pushed forward Camry's release date (6 months) if Sonata wasn't a threat to the midsize market.
You say Honda and Toyota keep improving, and I'd agree but at the same time don't you think Hyundai is doing the same thing? If anything, I'd bet Hyundai is improving at a much faster pace than Honda/Toyota did back in the days when they first made presence in the US. I firmly believe if anybody can step up to the plate and challenge Toyota/Honda/Nissan, it'd be Hyundai.
Your serious doubt is the exactly same thought people wrote off the Japanese back in the days where the domestics ruled the market. Fast forward to present, seems like we've got a delicate, yet similar situation on our hands, don't you think?
like i said before, it is really annoying to hear average honda or toyota buyers big up the XLE or top of the line accord, when it is just like a concept model to brag about , when most of the population can afford the 4 banger anyways
They have found with the latest Sienna and Avalon that an early spring launch puts the vehicles alone in the market just as the buyers come out of hibernation.
All the vehicles being discussed are 'threats' and all are competitive even the 'Fu / lans' if Ford would just give them the features they deserve.
Both of these models will outsell the Sonata as well. So as long as the compact vehicles can hold the line against the midsized Sonata then the larger Camry's and Accords and Altima's can take advantage of the midsized buyers who want to spend $22-30K for nicer features.
Right now the Sonata is focussing on just the value buyers which is OK because this is a huge market. Again if the Sonata can be kept in check in the $15-19K range where the Civics and Corollas exist then all is good with the world.
Interesting tidbits on the 2007 Altima. This mid-size segment is just too crowded, which is good because prices will fall.
Too bad, you can't wake up corpses.
Honda has to prove that they no longer suffer from the same transmission problems plagued of Accords, Odyssey and TLs.
Toyota has to prove their V6s no longer sludge. We will know that five years and 100,000 miles down the road.
1) Automakers are allowed to sell 07MY vehicles as early as Jan. 1, 2006. Tahoe did.
2) The Sonata has proven its long term reliablity. Go check the stats yourself. Even in initial quality, the Sonata has constantly came in the top three the past few years, and garnered a few first place finishes.
If so then I'd say Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are fighting an uphill battle. They'd better start fighting against the much-improved mid-sized 2007 Elantra instead of the full-sized Sonata GL, with its room, comfort, power, and standard safety features that none of those compacts match. If buyers of cars like the Civic would wake up and look at the Sonata and realize they can get a loaded full-sized car for the same price or less than the compact Civic, those cars might lose some of their luster. Of course, there are always buyers who are not looking for the most car for their money but really want a small car with great gas mileage, and the Corolla and Civic excel there.
~alpha
This is true. But, this is exactly what Honda, Nissan, and Toyota did in the past, before they became truly accepted as excellent products by the marketplace. In the '70s and early '80s the Japanese brands were taking sales away from Detroit and Europe based upon their value for the money, just as Hyundai is doing now.
The Korean cars are mirroring the impact of the Japanese, just twenty or more years behind the curve. I guess the Chinese are next, and then the Indians. It should be an interesting next couple of decades. If I was Detroit, I wouldn't be sleeping.