I don't need Honda to love me back. I just know they make great cars, and will continue to do so. Honda strives to improve their product. The domestic companies have no sense of pride. They just keep pushing the same old junk (slow improvements, if any) they are still using push-rod engines. No refinement, and not very efficient.
You have to realize by now that you won't change minds of Honyota worshipers. All I can say is more people will buy Sonata down the load , and some of Honyota only people also go to Hyundai dealership to save up to $10,000 in their pocket near in the future.
For now, I suggest you to let them decide what they like. Let the quality and price change their minds, not by your opinion.
I will try to stay out of this forum. It's wasting time.
Simply to say: I can't save their money, they won't change my fixed income. LX V6 Sonata with leather was my dream come true which I can actually afford.
So far, 6,000 miles, my $19,500 LX Sonata is perfect. I feel the power gets even better as more miles behind my LX's double chrome pipes. It's amazing that I can break tires loose at 15 MPH on a dry road.
I did not get the best car on the world, but I got the best car for $19,500.
Honyota worshipers huh. Well at least we are worshiping the "Car Gods". You Hyundai lovers are worshiping what amounts to a "Tel evangelist". Benny Hyundai, he heals all cheap cars.
Find me $19,500 brand new V6 Accord with leather. I will trade in mine. You still don't get my point? If Hyundai's low price bring Camcords price down, it will be a good news for everyone. Are you against with that too?
A new V6 Accord for $19,500. You don't get it. You can't get a car that good, for that price. You can get a lesser car, namely Sonata. You get what you pay for. A V6 Sonata can not compete with my V6 Accord. Especially if the interior looks like that picture. Looks cheap.
I agree with interior, but not on exterior. That cheap Sonata also ran faster, quieter,more standard safety features ,and stopped shorter on last test. Aren't those what midsize sedan shoppers are looking for?
Then why did it lose the comparison? Even against the three year old Accord. Because it's not as smooth, refined, or as comfortable. The Altima is also about .1 second quicker than the Accord too. That doesn't make it a better overall car. We're talking about the complete package here. All the other car maker's commercials say they beat the Accord at this or that. The Accord is not the best at everything. It's the combination of all it's parts that makes it great. Spend a while behind the wheel, and you'll know what I mean.
Thanks. I do have the SE (4cyl) and I believe tires are 17". I love the drive, hate the ride. It is actually sometimes painful to feel every small bump on the road. I did not notice it when I was test driving, quite possibly busy getting adjusted to a new vehicle.
On the other hand Odyssey has a much smoother ride.
If toyota corp is worried about the sonata trust me honda is worried as well.
In terms of expansion lets just say honda is catching up to hyundai. How many cars has hyundai come out with now?? how ambitious are they trying to bring the equus to NA?? If the RL is the best honda can you, you know they are just chilling.
I don't think any consumer who wants the best appreciates that. You can dwell about hondas legendary status and keep bringing that up, but it is becoming a myth and not reality anymore(taking way too long to update their cars)
I think bmw, honda are too lax now, and when the g35's cadillac cts , sonatas, mazda 3 catch up to them , they won't know what hit them.
Due us all a favor and go test drive a Sonata because I would say this is one of the best midsize sedans.
"A V6 Sonata can not compete with my V6 Accord". Sounds like bashing to me. At the very least, the Sonata is not a piece of junk like you implied. Even people who never would have given a shot to Hyundais are stating merits to Hyundai's Sonata and the rest of the new lineup. Sonata's current sales mark (@ 17K units a month and likely soon apporaching 20K units range) is a good indication how the car has improved over time, its value and the quality of the car, etc...
After my own test drives of just about every single car in the midsize class, I'd say the Sonata is just as good and competitive with the rest of the class. Styling is subjective but the fact remains, the Sonata offers the most features for the least amount of $$$ in the class. This is the car for all of the savvy shoppers out there; looking to save (5-6K MSRP) and yet still receive a quality product with tons of features and a rommy family sedan.
What's wrong about your statement is that you exagerate the differential. A similarly equipped Accord, Camry, Altima as compared to the LX Sonata is in the $23-26K range.
This is a significant difference but it's not unjustified by 20 years of acceptance here. The 3 Japanese transplants should carry a $3000-5000 premium over the Korean transplant.
Trust me on this if the Sonata is as good as it seems then price differential will disappear to maybe $1000 at most. The Korean 'Please look at me campaign' over the next couple of years may win enough customers that the managers at Hyundai will want to start to cash in on the eventual success.
I'll also venture that the Camry, Accord and Altima also will increase their respective sales over the same 3 year period. Guess who might be losing?
As much as I love my 2006 Hyundai GLS 2.4L 4 cyl, if I were buying now instead of last Dec, I would definitely consider the 2006.5 Optima EX 2.4L with the optional Appearance package and the ABS and ESC options. With the EX trim plus the AP, ABS, and ES package options you get everything you would get in a Hyundai GLS 4 cyl plus a five speed AT, leather upholstery, 17-inch alloy wheels with Michelin tires, a tire pressure monitoring system, solar glass, chrome door handles, eight-way power adjustable driver’s seat, automatic climate control, auto-dimming rearview mirror with Homelink transmitter, and 360-watt Infinity audio with six-disc CD changer cassette player, and a seek button on the steering wheel. If you want 16 inch wheels you can choose the Premium Leather PL package instead of the Appearance package. The PL package also includes five level heated front seats. Either way with the 2500 Rebate, you should be able to buy this car for around 18K.
as far as interior materials...i can't say anything about the sonata or new camry as i haven't sat in them yet. but design wise, i have to give the nod to the accord.
Arrrrrgh! zzzoom6! You can't judge by pictures! Interiors are 3D, and you must sit in the cars to get a true feel for them. Your assignment today is to go sit in a Sonata, Accord, and a Camry!
PS: I like the Accord best, and think the Camry and Sonata are a draw, followed by the Mazda6 and Fusion. There isn't nearly enough difference in the entire lot to base a buying decision on. Out of a make-believe 100 points, I would only give interior design, fit, and finish about 6 points total. (unless the interior was totally lame!)
I like the cloth interior/dash - the best on the Honda Accord LX-4. I like the layout of the dash and the gauges - very functional and modern. I sat in the Hyundai Sonata GL at the auto show, and it had a very cheap looking interior. I did not look at the GLS or LX (since I overlooked the GLS version and I don't care for leather seats - whatever the make/model) - so comparison to the LX's Accord may not be very fair. The new Camry LE 4 had nicer interior that the GL, but it was just not as nice as the Accord LX's. I can't comment of the Fusion/Milan and the Mazda. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Heading to Santa Rosa, CA to re-test the Camry LE 4 and the Sonata GLS V-6. Dealers finally have ample inventory of the Camry in stock.
Adios gang, no speeding today or fights on the board, ok!
Arrrrrgh! zzzoom6! You can't judge by pictures! Interiors are 3D, and you must sit in the cars to get a true feel for them. Your assignment today is to go sit in a Sonata, Accord, and a Camry!
Yeah, they're 3D...which makes the odd bulge in the climate-control area of the dash in the Sonata seem even wierder to me. I'm not sure why we even talk about design anymore, though. None are particularly BAD, just different, and everyone has a different idea of what "good" design is, no? I personally love the dash layout of my 06 Accord, but some people find it wierd that the stereo knob is down around the climate knobs. I personally find it very handy (of course, I use the steering wheel buttons mostly). Just different values on different designs.
Yes, the Camry is $4000 more than the Sonata, but there are a few bigger ticket, tech items that the Camry offers that the Sonata doesnt- for example, SmartKey, NAV, Bluetooth, Plasmacluster cabin Ionizer, 440 Watt JBL, Driver's Knee Airbag..and smaller items like reclining rear seats...
My point is that if you remove all that stuff, the prices differential would be much less.
I don't have a problem with the sterero knob location either. The best thing about the interior is the digital odometer and trip meters. (I just realized that they did change the needle colors to white from red (2004 to 2006). Oh well.
They are the top two because they are the best. People are willing to pay more for Quality, refinement, and a reputation for reliability. True cost of ownership is more of an indication of value. The costs of maintenance, operation, repairs, and resale value are all contributing factors in this equation.
I agree with you to a point Elroy, but where does the "best value" stop? Let's carry your premise out to its logical conclusion. The Sonata is a good car, right? But wait! The Camry is even more excellent for only 6K more. Better get it, right? But Wait again! For a few K more, you can get a Lexus, that has an even stronger aura of quality. But wait, for a few K more, you can get an MB, that will hold its resale value even better, and has an aura that will make your neighbors turn green. Is that what you want? Do you have the duckies to plunk down for it? Where does it end?
Value is relative, not absolute. If you have only 19K to spend, you can't even buy a Camry. But thanks to the new Sonata, you can get a car that's reasonably close to Camry's quality, refinement, comfort, and performance. (Repeat after me: "reasonably".)
I believe the Sonata is the best value among the mom cars at 19K, but readily admit that the Camry is probably the best value at 25K. For those of us that only have 19K to spend, the Camry is out of reach, and doesn't even matter, does it?
I think it's wonderful how the new Sonata has allowed many of us poor folks to get a taste of Camry and Accord quality, comfort, performance, and reliablilty. Yes, I said 06 Sonata's reliability will be comparable to A&C until I see proof that it isn't. Do I think you are foolish for spending 5-7K more for an A or C? Not at all. I think you're lucky to have the bucks to spend on a more expensive car. If it makes you feel happy and secure, I guess it's worth the extra money.
All of those standard safety features (ABS w/EBD ESC, TCS, six aribags, dual head restraints), even on the base version of the Sonata is a deal killer and a great move by Hyundai; plus the unbeatable warranty, and high reliablity/quality marks makes this a great deal. JD Power and CR have constantly ranked high on the Sonata (CR - most reliable car - 2005 edition; JD Power - top finishes in the midsize class, either 1st and within top three).
2005 Initial Quality Study (IQS) - 90 days Midsize: Malibu (1); Sonata (2); Jetta (3) 2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS) - 90 days Midsize: Sonata (1); Alero (2); Malibu (3) 2003 Initial Quality Study (IQS) - 90 days Midsize: Malibu (1); Sonata (2); Grand Am (3)
2005 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) - three year (2002-2005) Midsize: Malibu (1); Alero (2); Sonata (3)
As for the comparision, I took the liberty to find it for you elroy5. Please find below as to the editors' opinions which car they choose:
Yes, the Camry is $4000 more than the Sonata, but there are a few bigger ticket, tech items that the Camry offers that the Sonata doesnt- for example, SmartKey, NAV, Bluetooth, Plasmacluster cabin Ionizer, 440 Watt JBL, Driver's Knee Airbag..and smaller items like reclining rear seats...
To be honest, I would pay extra to remove most of that stuff from the car. It just doesn't belong in a commuter car, and will seldom be used. It makes more sense in a highway cruiser, not a commuter car. It's just more things to go wrong.
tech items that the Camry offers that the Sonata doesnt- for example, SmartKey, NAV, Bluetooth, Plasmacluster cabin Ionizer, 440 Watt JBL, Driver's Knee Airbag..and smaller items like reclining rear seats...
Did you mean "offers" or "includes"? If "offers", then I think the price differential is more than $4,000...real price, not MSRP.
Commuter car, for me, does not connote the midsize class.
I don't think the current midsize class is suitable for long trips. Not for me anyway. Even the roomiest, most comfortable of them will wear thin after 2-300 miles. You're just asking too much of narrow, short wheelbase cars by expecting them to be comfortable on all day trips.
Camry, Accord, Sonata, Fusion, Altima all make a valiant effort to be mini highway cruisers, but fall short. The midsize cars are primarily commuter cars that are fine for double duty as on occasional 200-300 mile trip. If I went on a weekly trip or drove crosscountry 2-3 times a year, no way I could do it in a midsize. That's why God created the SUV and full size... and the Boeing 767.
i'm the living proof. i've owned 03 accord coupe and now i own acura cls. and having sat on that premium nf sonata in korea, i know for a fact that material is about the same with v6 accord with navi. you could say accord has a better design. but material is definitely a par.
This is not accurate. Now that these features are available in a non-luxury trim you'd be shocked at how many people do want them and and are willing to pay for them.
The 440 watt, 6disc JBL with BT seems to be right with VSC and or Sunroof as the first option being chosen.
Commuter vehicle as a midsized auto. 2003-2005 4c AT Accord/Camry Certified. at $14000 is a much better idea.
So? Now what? You think Honda, Toyota and Nissan will just sit around , watch and do nothing? Toyota, expected to be the next # 1 car manufacturer and recently posted their biggest year in the US recently relased / and plan to release 5 vehicles. And the vehicles are and is expected to burn the sales chart. Back to Hyundai. Well they released the Sonata , Azera , Accent, Entourage and in the summer the Santa Fe but they couldnt get much sales without rebates. Yup , I would be worried. You bet I am.
And as of the last sales figures, despite these new model releases, Sonata seems to be the only one doing well. And Hyundai fans are all over the board because of this?
what new line up? do some research before you post. we won't see the new santa fe, elantra, and entourage until this summer. elantra is actually coming out in fall.
azera is the only recent line up and its doulbing the xg's sales. it's transaction cost is hyundai's highest at 27k.
whether you believe it or not, hyundai's sale numbers will continue to grow.
Yeah, have you ever sat in an Alero? A Malibu? A Grand Am? These cars were all pitiful inside (cheap CHEAP plastics, fussy stereo buttons, cheap feel to their movements (creaky stereo buttons still stick out in my mind to the neighbor-girl's bright red Alero we looked at and sat in). I don't think I'dve posted those cars if I were you...they don't help the case for the Sonata. The Sonata makes a good case for itself, these stats almost try and degrade that (putting it behind an 03 Malibu? That's just degrading!)
I'd rank the Sonata much higher than the cars mentioned here (save for the VW, which has the nice interior, but bad reliability). I'd think the Sonata would be number 3 in its class in tactile quality of interior (behind Accord, Camry), and way WAY ahead of the GM competitors mentioned here (alero, Grand Am, etc..). Number 3 in the class by no means refers to third rate; it makes it one of the best there is, just not THE best.
I don't think the current midsize class is suitable for long trips.
I'm 6'4", and have to disagree with you here. I'm young, so that may be part of it (but still have an iffy back due to my car wreck last year). I've put many travel miles on Accords since 2003, and they have left me wanting nothing, except for a pee break. Shoot, they don't even need a fillup until mile 500 on a trip (I-4).
And to add a little credibility to my statement, we had a 2000 Odyssey, that WAS a nice tripper. It also sucked gas a lot more than our Accords, and didn't offer much more comfort for 4 travelers than an Accord could. Cargo space, yeah, it had it, but it was louder than our Accords, and didn't have the engine pep, either.
whether you believe it or not, hyundai's sale numbers will continue to grow.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Honda is posting record month after record month in sales...I know I read somewhere that for the last (14 maybe?) months, Honda has had record sales numbers. I don't think anyone here wished bad things for Hyundai, instead, are trying to keep things in perspective.
i'm the living proof. i've owned 03 accord coupe and now i own acura cls. and having sat on that premium nf sonata in korea, i know for a fact that material is about the same with v6 accord with navi. you could say accord has a better design. but material is definitely a par.
That was all filtered through your own opinion. Which cannot be taken as a fact.
We're all entitled to our own opinions in this forum.
Okay. Entourage shouldnt be on that list. My point is, these carmakers arent resting on their laurels. Look, Toyota is worried but not because of Hyundai. Dont compare them to GM and Ford of the 70's. The fact that they have/ and will release 5 new vehicles this year and who knows how many next year is a sign that theyre not your typical GM or Ford. Then there is Honda. if there is a carmaker that Toyota should be worried about , it should be Honda. Amazing designs! I couldnt wait for the new Accord and the new CRV.
Not only Honda, most Asian automakers are setting new marks here in the US every month, including Hyundai (I read somewhere sales have increased more than 400% since 1998).
Just my opinion, (Lexus owner) while i have driven both the current 06 Sonata and a 05 honda accord, i will deffinatly say the sonata has a high quality feel to it, but i would not go as far to say the materials quality is the same as the accord. The accord has excellent material on the dash, nice grain quality with soft touch material everywhere. The interior design is simply stunning and i think one of the best on the midsize market including the 07' camry. (not impressed). The way your greeted by large, legible electroluminesents gauges and blue lcd display on the radio is a very nice touch in this class. I dont think the interior has aged a bit since its redesign. (same cant be said for the exterior). While the Sonata has quality materials it doesnt have the same feeling of the accord, materials are nice, actually very nice once you factor in the price of the car, but what the sonata doesnt do is make me feel like this car is something special with the interior treatments. But in sonata's defense i dont think it was aiming for that either, i think hyundai's main focus is value for your dollar and proving that hyundai is a quality vehicle that can go againt the best. Which i think is a valid effort on hyundai's part, but not quite up to the interior refinement of the accord.
Actually, they are called family sedans for a reason. Most shoppers in this class (generally) is limited to some sort of budget - the direct evidence is the amount of I4s purchased vs. V6s. While talking with area dealers, 20K is about the limit, give or take about 1-2K either upward or downward. The fact of the matter is, while these options are great, they are still only purchased by small amount of buyers (dealers, however, are extremly happy if you add all of the options ).
At an average budget, you will get a decent I4 with few options and a perfectly fine vehicle. Of course, with value pricing from few automakers, an optional V6 can be added; while not sacrificing any features, quality and realibilty.
actually with gas prices soaring, i'd think more people will be stepping out of their suv's or big pickups or at least not consider them as much for their new purchase and instead step into the midsize sedan segment. this should be good for all of the cars that we are talking about here but moreso for the cars that have good momentum to carry them forward. but there is also more good choices...of course the camry, altima, accord, and sonata are easy picks. but the fusion, legacy, and, of course, the 6 are solid alternatives that could start to take more market share. if gas prices stay above 2.50, i'd think the midsize market will benefit. i just wonder if this will have a negative impact on prices (not require as many incentives to move them) in this segment.
Like that previous lexus owner stated, this cars aim was not to have the best interior but show it can have a really high in quality well layed out one. Where did the other effort go to? the exterior(will age better than the accord, old camry, altima etc) , some solid brakes, size of the car etc
all this for a price thats really affordable.
The accord may make you feel good because of its nicely appointed interior and engine, but you can tell the sacrifice was made on their quietness,exterior design something as simple as some good brakes(unless they actually suck making them).
The accord has an edge in interior but like i've repeated numerous times, the sonata is def a better over all car forgetting about the costs in this class.(reminds me of the audi a4 which doesn't stand out(other than interior) but overall one of the best entry luxury sedans in the market)
while i resepect your opinion about the Sonata being the better car, i cannot completely agree, because we have no long term data that suggest otherwise. The accord has proven its worth thru each iteration and in my opinion gets better each time. While i can see the sonata is a vehicle of quality, ill wait to see how the results come out before forming an opinion of which is a better car.
The 01-05 sonata has been linked to being already a comparable quality car compared to hondayota. Yes hondayota have 20 years of reputation and it cannot be built overnight, but 5 years of high quality plus the direction the company is going to aiming for top 5 car manufacturers has to make you believe these are going to be good cars for the long run.
Yes toyota has 20 years of quality, but how do we know their 07 camry won't be a snuff? I mean its a totally new platform, you just never know either.
Realistically we don't know how 06 sonata and 07 camry will fair for example but we could use the facts of hyundais previous sonatas reliability, companies warranty backup, aiming for top 5 , other quality cars rolling out there can be an educated guess these sonatas are in it for the long run, just how you mite use toyotas or hondas previous quality superbness to have faith on the 07 camry or accord for the long run.
this is the one i sat on it. i don't like the placement of the navi, and i wish there was more buttons. but material wise, it was about the same with my 03 accord coupe and my current acura cls.
IMO Malibu is crummy. We went on vacation to AZ & arrived on 3/16, rental car was a Maxima. Got creamed from behind in a traffic jam & pushed into the car ahead of us. Bye-bye Maxima, but we had only "minor" injuries, no broken bones. Enterprise's replacement car was a "Classic" (fleet version of Malibu). Granted the Maxima & Classic are in two different categories and the Maxima is a much higher priced car with more features, but the Classic is far below my '05 Sonata in features, ride quality & power (the rental was probably a 4 cyl). The Classis felt like the old Plymouth Valiant compared to my Sonata.
Comments
All I can say is more people will buy Sonata down the load , and some of Honyota only people also go to Hyundai dealership to save up to $10,000 in their pocket near in the future.
For now, I suggest you to let them decide what they like.
Let the quality and price change their minds, not by your opinion.
I will try to stay out of this forum. It's wasting time.
Simply to say: I can't save their money, they won't change my fixed income.
LX V6 Sonata with leather was my dream come true which I can actually afford.
So far, 6,000 miles, my $19,500 LX Sonata is perfect. I feel the power gets even better as more miles behind my LX's double chrome pipes. It's amazing that I can break tires loose at 15 MPH on a dry road.
I did not get the best car on the world, but I got the best car for $19,500.
You still don't get my point?
If Hyundai's low price bring Camcords price down, it will be a good news for everyone. Are you against with that too?
That cheap Sonata also ran faster, quieter,more standard safety features ,and stopped shorter on last test.
Aren't those what midsize sedan shoppers are looking for?
Is a Rolex better than a Seiko? Yes.
Is a Seiko does same thing a Rolex does? Yes.
You get better stuff when you pay much more money.
You talking about $6,000 to $10,000 actual price gap between LX vs Camcord......
Because they did not test Azera instead of Sonata.
Camcord prices on that test were about Azera Limited price ,or more.
Sonata is not a better car, its a good car for the money.
Is it OK?
My story ends here.
I do have the SE (4cyl) and I believe tires are 17".
I love the drive, hate the ride. It is actually sometimes
painful to feel every small bump on the road. I did not notice it when I was test driving, quite possibly busy
getting adjusted to a new vehicle.
On the other hand Odyssey has a much smoother ride.
In terms of expansion lets just say honda is catching up to hyundai. How many cars has hyundai come out with now?? how ambitious are they trying to bring the equus to NA?? If the RL is the best honda can you, you know they are just chilling.
I don't think any consumer who wants the best appreciates that. You can dwell about hondas legendary status and keep bringing that up, but it is becoming a myth and not reality anymore(taking way too long to update their cars)
I think bmw, honda are too lax now, and when the g35's cadillac cts , sonatas, mazda 3 catch up to them , they won't know what hit them.
"A V6 Sonata can not compete with my V6 Accord". Sounds like bashing to me. At the very least, the Sonata is not a piece of junk like you implied. Even people who never would have given a shot to Hyundais are stating merits to Hyundai's Sonata and the rest of the new lineup. Sonata's current sales mark (@ 17K units a month and likely soon apporaching 20K units range) is a good indication how the car has improved over time, its value and the quality of the car, etc...
After my own test drives of just about every single car in the midsize class, I'd say the Sonata is just as good and competitive with the rest of the class. Styling is subjective but the fact remains, the Sonata offers the most features for the least amount of $$$ in the class. This is the car for all of the savvy shoppers out there; looking to save (5-6K MSRP) and yet still receive a quality product with tons of features and a rommy family sedan.
This is a significant difference but it's not unjustified by 20 years of acceptance here. The 3 Japanese transplants should carry a $3000-5000 premium over the Korean transplant.
Trust me on this if the Sonata is as good as it seems then price differential will disappear to maybe $1000 at most. The Korean 'Please look at me campaign' over the next couple of years may win enough customers that the managers at Hyundai will want to start to cash in on the eventual success.
I'll also venture that the Camry, Accord and Altima also will increase their respective sales over the same 3 year period. Guess who might be losing?
Arrrrrgh! zzzoom6! You can't judge by pictures! Interiors are 3D, and you must sit in the cars to get a true feel for them. Your assignment today is to go sit in a Sonata, Accord, and a Camry!
PS: I like the Accord best, and think the Camry and Sonata are a draw, followed by the Mazda6 and Fusion. There isn't nearly enough difference in the entire lot to base a buying decision on. Out of a make-believe 100 points, I would only give interior design, fit, and finish about 6 points total. (unless the interior was totally lame!)
Heading to Santa Rosa, CA to re-test the Camry LE 4 and the Sonata GLS V-6. Dealers finally have ample inventory of the Camry in stock.
Adios gang, no speeding today or fights on the board, ok!
Yeah, they're 3D...which makes the odd bulge in the climate-control area of the dash in the Sonata seem even wierder to me. I'm not sure why we even talk about design anymore, though. None are particularly BAD, just different, and everyone has a different idea of what "good" design is, no? I personally love the dash layout of my 06 Accord, but some people find it wierd that the stereo knob is down around the climate knobs. I personally find it very handy (of course, I use the steering wheel buttons mostly). Just different values on different designs.
I don't think you will get the answer you were looking for.
The Accord and Camry are probably slightly better than the Sonata. But not $4,000 better. Maybe only $500 better.
My point is that if you remove all that stuff, the prices differential would be much less.
I agree with you to a point Elroy, but where does the "best value" stop? Let's carry your premise out to its logical conclusion. The Sonata is a good car, right? But wait! The Camry is even more excellent for only 6K more. Better get it, right? But Wait again! For a few K more, you can get a Lexus, that has an even stronger aura of quality. But wait, for a few K more, you can get an MB, that will hold its resale value even better, and has an aura that will make your neighbors turn green. Is that what you want? Do you have the duckies to plunk down for it? Where does it end?
Value is relative, not absolute. If you have only 19K to spend, you can't even buy a Camry. But thanks to the new Sonata, you can get a car that's reasonably close to Camry's quality, refinement, comfort, and performance. (Repeat after me: "reasonably".)
I believe the Sonata is the best value among the mom cars at 19K, but readily admit that the Camry is probably the best value at 25K. For those of us that only have 19K to spend, the Camry is out of reach, and doesn't even matter, does it?
I think it's wonderful how the new Sonata has allowed many of us poor folks to get a taste of Camry and Accord quality, comfort, performance, and reliablilty. Yes, I said 06 Sonata's reliability will be comparable to A&C until I see proof that it isn't. Do I think you are foolish for spending 5-7K more for an A or C? Not at all. I think you're lucky to have the bucks to spend on a more expensive car. If it makes you feel happy and secure, I guess it's worth the extra money.
2005 Initial Quality Study (IQS) - 90 days
Midsize: Malibu (1); Sonata (2); Jetta (3)
2004 Initial Quality Study (IQS) - 90 days
Midsize: Sonata (1); Alero (2); Malibu (3)
2003 Initial Quality Study (IQS) - 90 days
Midsize: Malibu (1); Sonata (2); Grand Am (3)
2005 Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) - three year (2002-2005)
Midsize: Malibu (1); Alero (2); Sonata (3)
As for the comparision, I took the liberty to find it for you elroy5. Please find below as to the editors' opinions which car they choose:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=109710/pageId=692- 98
To be honest, I would pay extra to remove most of that stuff from the car. It just doesn't belong in a commuter car, and will seldom be used. It makes more sense in a highway cruiser, not a commuter car. It's just more things to go wrong.
tech items that the Camry offers that the Sonata doesnt- for example, SmartKey, NAV, Bluetooth, Plasmacluster cabin Ionizer, 440 Watt JBL, Driver's Knee Airbag..and smaller items like reclining rear seats...
Did you mean "offers" or "includes"? If "offers", then I think the price differential is more than $4,000...real price, not MSRP.
I don't think the current midsize class is suitable for long trips. Not for me anyway. Even the roomiest, most comfortable of them will wear thin after 2-300 miles. You're just asking too much of narrow, short wheelbase cars by expecting them to be comfortable on all day trips.
Camry, Accord, Sonata, Fusion, Altima all make a valiant effort to be mini highway cruisers, but fall short. The midsize cars are primarily commuter cars that are fine for double duty as on occasional 200-300 mile trip. If I went on a weekly trip or drove crosscountry 2-3 times a year, no way I could do it in a midsize. That's why God created the SUV and full size... and the Boeing 767.
it's 2006 and only fool can't see hyundai's success
http://2006motorshow.hyundai-motor.com
just check their new cars and new concepts. they are growing up faster than my 14 year old nephew.
The 440 watt, 6disc JBL with BT seems to be right with VSC and or Sunroof as the first option being chosen.
Commuter vehicle as a midsized auto. 2003-2005 4c AT Accord/Camry Certified. at $14000 is a much better idea.
2007 Hyundai Elantra(bigger than TL, looks sharp for 14k)
2007 Hyundai Entourage(wins safety awards)
2007 Hyundai Santa Fe (looks sharp, and big)
2008 Hyundai Tiburon (including convertible version)
2008 Hyundai Sonata coupe/convertible
2008 Hyundai (Rwd V8 Luxury Sedan)
2008 Hyundai (Large Sports Wagon 'crossvehicle')
200x Hyundai (Big SUV code name EN)
200x Hyundai (Pickup)
hyundai's sales numbers would double and be right up there with nissan within next 5-6 years
i would worry if i was honyota
azera is the only recent line up and its doulbing the xg's sales. it's transaction cost is hyundai's highest at 27k.
whether you believe it or not, hyundai's sale numbers will continue to grow.
I'd rank the Sonata much higher than the cars mentioned here (save for the VW, which has the nice interior, but bad reliability). I'd think the Sonata would be number 3 in its class in tactile quality of interior (behind Accord, Camry), and way WAY ahead of the GM competitors mentioned here (alero, Grand Am, etc..). Number 3 in the class by no means refers to third rate; it makes it one of the best there is, just not THE best.
I'm 6'4", and have to disagree with you here. I'm young, so that may be part of it (but still have an iffy back due to my car wreck last year). I've put many travel miles on Accords since 2003, and they have left me wanting nothing, except for a pee break. Shoot, they don't even need a fillup until mile 500 on a trip (I-4).
And to add a little credibility to my statement, we had a 2000 Odyssey, that WAS a nice tripper. It also sucked gas a lot more than our Accords, and didn't offer much more comfort for 4 travelers than an Accord could. Cargo space, yeah, it had it, but it was louder than our Accords, and didn't have the engine pep, either.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Honda is posting record month after record month in sales...I know I read somewhere that for the last (14 maybe?) months, Honda has had record sales numbers. I don't think anyone here wished bad things for Hyundai, instead, are trying to keep things in perspective.
That was all filtered through your own opinion. Which cannot be taken as a fact.
We're all entitled to our own opinions in this forum.
Then there is Honda. if there is a carmaker that Toyota should be worried about , it should be Honda. Amazing designs! I couldnt wait for the new Accord and the new CRV.
At an average budget, you will get a decent I4 with few options and a perfectly fine vehicle. Of course, with value pricing from few automakers, an optional V6 can be added; while not sacrificing any features, quality and realibilty.
all this for a price thats really affordable.
The accord may make you feel good because of its nicely appointed interior and engine, but you can tell the sacrifice was made on their quietness,exterior design something as simple as some good brakes(unless they actually suck making them).
The accord has an edge in interior but like i've repeated numerous times, the sonata is def a better over all car forgetting about the costs in this class.(reminds me of the audi a4 which doesn't stand out(other than interior) but overall one of the best entry luxury sedans in the market)
AND I'M NOT TALKIN ABOUT THE U.S MODEL. ONLY TALKIN ABOUT PREMIUM NF SONATA WHICH ONLY OFFERED IN KOREA.
IMO, it felt almost as good as azera and azera is comparable to avalon. black and silver dash trim made it look very sporty.
Yes toyota has 20 years of quality, but how do we know their 07 camry won't be a snuff? I mean its a totally new platform, you just never know either.
Realistically we don't know how 06 sonata and 07 camry will fair for example but we could use the facts of hyundais previous sonatas reliability, companies warranty backup, aiming for top 5 , other quality cars rolling out there can be an educated guess these sonatas are in it for the long run, just how you mite use toyotas or hondas previous quality superbness to have faith on the 07 camry or accord for the long run.
<img src="http://www.jc-dc.net/images/img_38109_4.jpg
Enterprise's replacement car was a "Classic" (fleet version of Malibu). Granted the Maxima & Classic are in two different categories and the Maxima is a much higher priced car with more features, but the Classic is far below my '05 Sonata in features, ride quality & power (the rental was probably a 4 cyl). The Classis felt like the old Plymouth Valiant compared to my Sonata.
I doubt it'll gonna happen... Honda and Toyota won't let the Japanese people subsidize their cars for others to benefit.