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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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I'll take a Malibu over that anyday.
The new malibu is light years better.
It’s good they are not you if you believe Hyundai will drive Honda and Toyota into bankruptcy, then you must be eating a lot of kimchi lately. Have Sonata outsells the Camry first and win more comparos than the Accord and I will be worried too.
The poster never said Hyundai will drive Honda/Toyota into bankruptcy; the poster never implied the Sonata will outsell Camry/Accord anytime soon. But, I believe the poster said Honda/Toyota is worrying about Hyundai - as well they should. In the meat market (US) of midsize, Hyundai is coming up fast and closing in 20K units/month, that is something to pay attention to, espeically given the Sonata sold only about 10-11K units/month a year or two ago.
The sonata lost to the hondayota v6 179 to 170. 9 points is hardly a laugher. The 2002 sonata may have only gotten 150 points.
But like i stated comparos mean nothing to when the toyota ceo publicly stated he is worried about hyundai and another weakness is that when he asked to visit hyundais plant in exchange hyundai can do the same to visit toyotas plant, hyundais ceo's rejected them. Why is that??
give it a couple more years, with further refinement and still reasonable pricing(now that their top priority is engine efficiency for next gen cars) this car will beat the camry in sales(at this rate of production), already the new santa fe is going to be the best and highest selling small suv in the market.
I believed Toyota's top officials then they said they were worried about Hyundai.
You gotta be kiddin me.
Do you really believe your own rhetoric?
This thread has turned into mush.....
Choe13, Edmunds claimed the Sonata ran away in its price competition vs. Camry and Accord - hands down the winner was awarded to the Sonata. This is a formula of sucess and I believe it has worked, given the fast rising in sales. More features for less price, more power to Hyundai!
...this car will beat the camry in sales(at this rate of production),
There is no way possible they can do this without building another entire plant. In fact they cant fill the current plant in Ala with retail buyers yet which is why they are giving away fleet vehicles at the same rate as GM and Ford.
Remember in this category the Sonata is in seventh place... behind:
Camry
Accord
Altima
Taurus
Fu-lan
Malibu/G6
Not to mention the Corolla and the Civic.
The only reason that they are as high as 7th is that they are giving the darn vehicles away to the few who will take a chance given the past experience - and to the fleets. With out the fleets and huge retail rebates the Sonata might not be in the top 10.
Good vehicle but be realistic. Maybe in a few years it will grow into a real contender. But by then maybe the managers will not allow it to have an artificially low price and it will have to succeed on it's merits.
I count Camry, Accord, Altima, Taurus (99% fleet) and then Sonata as of March sales.
Camry: 38,981
Accord: 29,623
Altima: 23,790
Taurus: 20,262
Sonata: 17,487
Malibu: 13,716
G6: 11,769
Fusion: 10,703
Mazda6: 7,215
Passat: 4,727
Optima: 3,958
Milan: 3,236
(I probably missed a few...)
You better get that bump on your head checked out quick!!
You're starting to hallucinate. You are living in a dream, wake up!!
I hate to break this to you, but the Sonata's price is not artifically low. The Accord and Camry's are artificially high. Hyundai is merely trying to break the cartel.
Hyundai is making a tidy profit on all of their cars. Have you seen the outrageous profits Honda and Toyota are making on their cars? It's shocking. Truly shocking.
You better get that bump on your head checked out quick!!
You're starting to hallucinate. You are living in a dream, wake up!!
I'm done reading anything what you say elroy5 since you never reply with logic. I never said now did i? I said in time with the rate of hyundais improvements compared to hondayota plus pricing it is inevitable(just like samsung is now the leader in sales than sony<-- economic trend).
We will see if i'am dreaming in the next 5 years, you should wake up and smell modern times for a change my friend
I'd be looking for a good car at a good price. The best car I could get for the money paid. I wouldn't care how much money the manufacturer or the dealer made...just what it cost me (manfacturer doesn't lose $ regardless of what you pay and dealers don't either).
3 LX with moonroof & 6 CDs for $17,999 before $500 owner's rebate.
$17,499 for top LX.
I called them up about 2PM, they said they still have one white and one green one left.
Just for the incase you do not believe me, here is the web page where you can get phone numbers. www.hillsborohyundai.com
On the same page: LX I4 Accord auto 1@ $18,990. That price is the best one ever seen. I think Honda is lowering their price too.
Y don't you take a look at newspapers once in a while, or do some research before you post.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hyundai-Sonata-LX-New-Sonata-LX-w-Premium-Package- -Sunroof-6-Disc-CD_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ80747QQitemZ4630712864QQrdZ1
I almost believed your 40 MPG story..... Your right! I am stupid.
OK choe13 you say that the Sonata will outsell the Camry in a couple (2) years.
You also claim that the Santa fe is already going to outsell the Toyota Rav4 and the Honda CRV.
So do you really believe this? Hyundai will have to build a "reputation" for quality and reliability. Honda and Toyota have been building their reputations for 25 or more years. But you think Hyundai can do this in just 2 more years. These are not realistic expectations.
To be fair to the domestics while they are not generating the excitement they are selling vehicles. If you are going to do away with the Taurus due to it's being fleet sales only then you should also 'deflate' all the other models by the % of fleet sales.
Camry ~10%
Accord under 5%
etc etc
Fusion ~30%
Malibu ~ 50%
or just compare all the models on the total volume sold as you are doing with the Sonata.
My figures were for 1st Qtr YTD not just March. We will see on Tues what are the results for the first 4 months YTD.
So you are saying that now the managers of Hyundai see the other 3 making these huge 'outrageous' profits but they ( Hyundai ) want to do the 'right' thing for the American buying public. Thus they will keep earning a minimum/modest profit but still sell less volume and you think the top managers and shareholders of Hyundai will go along with this strategy.
This has been my contention all along. At some point some top boss at Hyundai is going to look at this scenario and say ..
'So when are we ( Hyundai ) going to make profits like the Japanese transplants? Is our Korean product not as good? Whys should they make all the money and all we do is keep the NA buyers happy by charging too little for our product? And these other three still outsell us even while we sell at a lower price. This is illogical. Even two of the three detroiters outsell us at higher prices. This is embarrassing. I thought you ( the product managers ) told me that if we made a world class product we could make world class profits. But Ford and GM outsell our product. Who do I fire first? Raise your hand.'
Who cares about sales figures alone? Well you do obviously because I was responding to your prior silly post. I was just correcting your exagerated view with facts and logical arguments. The Sonata is not going to take over this segment. In fact it will have a hard time to get out of 7th place. :surprise:
As other posters stated the ones on top are not sitting still' e.g. '07 Camry, '07 Altima, etc. The Sonata is firmly in 7th place and it will be a struggle to jump over the Fusion/Milan into 6th. Now if the Taurus dies all the ones below it move up a notch.
Here is an old philosophical conundrum: 'If a tree falls in the forest and no one is near it, does it make any sound?'
'If Hyundai makes a world class vehicle but nobody ( but a few ) knows about it, can it be considered a success?'
For all purposes and considerations, Sonata notches down the fourth best selling midsize in March (I excluded Taurus being it is sold exclusively on fleet and not part of the dicussions of this thread. Fairly a good mark for Hyundai, I would say.
As to say whether the Sonata has been a success or not, while it is still early, all indications point to great success for the new model. Is it a contender, you bet! But if you don't believe so, then you probably either haven't driven one yet or you are just blindly going off by badges.
Sonata: 17,487
Fusion (10,703) + Milan (3,326) + Zephyr (3,218) = 17,247
Still think it's fair? Not the industry, how do you feel?
I'd expect the FMZ triplet figures to go up, given someone need to fill-in the voids of the Taurus fleet numbers (>20K units/month) when production stops this year. Ironic the Taurus has been leading Ford car sales for a good part of this and last year.
it's about hyundai creeping up on them, and becoming one of them. who would want that? MJ wouldn't like it if kobe or lebron becomes as good as he once was. i'm sure sony didn't worry about samsung 20 years ago. but guess what? samsung already surpassed sony and became one of the most profitable company in the world.
go ahead and take it.
you are just a hater.
The Sonata has a long way to go. Did you ever think Hyundai could be forcing Toyota and Honda make even better cars? Hyundai will need to sustain low prices to compete with Honda Accord, Toyota Camry or Nissan Altima.
Given the choice between a Camry, an Accord or a Sonata at the same price point, how many buyers would opt for the Hyundai Sonata? My guess is not many.
"this car public sales record or not just yet at this point is every bit comparable to hondayota"
choe13, what does this sentence mean? And you say I don't reply with logic. Can't you even compose a sentence that makes sense. You just ramble on and on, and don't even know what you're saying.
and you have to wonder when in a couple years all the sonata rental cars hit the market what that will do to their resale values then... that's one thing that i like about the accords; the chances that you buy a car that potentially has been abused by many uncaring rental patrons is basically nil.
saw a quote from the ceo of mazda saying that they do not want to sacrifice the branding of mazda by selling as many cars to rental fleets in an effort to meet artificial volume targets. sounds like a good strategy if it helps keep the value of my car higher than what it would be if they dumped a bunch of cars into rental agencies.
kdhspyder i'm trying to prove a point with you, sales figure or not this is a great car at a unbeatable price. Sales will come about on its own
kdhspyder and elroy5 you guys need to think in modern times. No products are invincible, they are bound to be beat.
Like i said the ceo's of toyota are even sweating, i don't need your emotional outburst that that the new sonata is inferior because it is just the opposite in reality.
I yearn to own a sonata to be honest, i test driven it three times now, and i can't believe how cheap it is for such a great car(as a consumer i value, space, good interior, exterior, and BREAKS). I have never felt that way about a domestic , nor japanese car before(unless you get to a highly priced kind). There is a reason why the sonata is tops in consumer satisfaction index.
And let's get this straight for like the 80th time. I NOT ONLY SAT AND DROVE A SONATA, I THOUGHT OF BUYING ONE. I am giving a completely unbiased opinion. I own a Mazda6 and the materials in the Sonata are better than mine. However they are not equal to the new Camry or the Accord or a Passat or a Bentley Azure or anything else you may want to compare it to.
How come you refer to people as worshipping Toyonda when you are in the Hyundai temple? When peopel pick out the Sonata's clear faults, it is like the Hyundai loyalists pick up their arms. This is nonsense. You guys can't live with peopel saying that it is a great value but that the interior isn't up to the Camcord's? And what's with the funky green lighting? Does the car really have to be proclaimed as perfect for you to be happy?
wolverine have you seen this car in person? Trust me, it is a let down. And I don't see how it is sizably bigger than a TL. Maybe a tenth of an inch somewhere but it looks rather cheap in person. At that price, I'd spill the extra 1K more or less and get the Mazda3 with its mini Audi interior.
Hyundai is firing on all cylinders but they are getting into markets they know little about which may be troubling. I have always believed good fair competition is good for the market though so bring it on.
They'd need to restyle the Sonata entirely to make it a coupe or a convertible. I hope they are going the Camry/Solara way and not the Accord/Accord Coupe wasy because the Sonata is not sexy enough to make a good coupe. The only four door that would make a good coupe if you just made it into a two door with minimal body change is the Mazda6. The G6 kind of does it also with the same front nose but its lines are much swoopier than a Sonata.
The sonata takes no effort to turn on the key for the engine to start, the accelation is effortless, and i really appreciate small things like special hinges for the trunk opening. The most suprising thing definitely was how quiet this car was, even beating your precious accord in that department.
I like sporty cars don't get me wrong, but the accord is in a weird area wanting to be a family car, that is sporty , that isn't quiet enough, that handles decently, that doesn't break well etc. Its a confused car like that
If i wanted sporty i rather prefer a mazda 6 or tsx, but if i wanted a nice family mid size the sonata comes to mind as that car as it definitely knows what its doing.
The sonata is not a perfect mid size sedan, but it does not have faults major enough to disappoint the consumer. It does everything above average, and of course it can do better, but what car can't. I can't say the same for the accord , i mean whats the point of having such a good engine, when its break cannot harness a stop good enough. Those are abc things that are the core of the build of a car that should be done right
We've had to shut down some other discussions of this nature because participants were unable to keep from making the discussion about each other. This has been a long-running and mostly successful discussion. I'm sure that all of you agree with me that we don't want the same thing to happen here.
If you have something to say about another poster you have two choices: email the comment to me or keep quiet.
It doesn't matter if you think someone else's opinion is wildly off base, that person is entitled to that opinion just as you are entitled to yours. Attacking the person because you believe the person is wrong is what is really wrong in here. Opinions are not wrong, they just are. Just stick to the cars without sniping at others.
We need your cooperation. Thank you.
It's the color of money! 6000 shiny $1 bills!
It's also a tribute to the Sonata that the only complaints are such niggling things as the color of the lighting and the radio controls on the steering wheel. Thank you. You made my point. :P
READ IT! IT SUCKS!
If you want to see what a great V6 supposed to feel, sound and drive like - look at Nissan's 3.5L VQ.
Accord feels underpowered at low engine speeds, where is the torque? Oh it's all the way up there near the red line.
I guess you'd have to floor it, any time you need a bit more than average power. If you want to compare engines, then compare them with Nissans' VQ, not that crappy 3.0L VTEC. Accord has nice interior, as far as handling goes - Maxima and Mazda6 will it Accord's lunch.
I had to chime in here, because I feel that there is too much credit given to a Car that does not deserve it - the Accord. The new Camry with the new 3.5L V6, is much more fun. New Altima will be a hoot too.
Accord needs a 3.5L from the TL, and it also needs MORE low end torque. And that's the bottom line!
For the other poster - the V-6 in the Accord is not underpowered. However, competitors have clearly caught up and surpassed it. I have the 4 cyl. auto and it does the job, in conjuction with a really good 5 speed auto tranny that is very smooth and does not hesitate (I make this statement based on the previous Accord/Acura that I own). At the same time, it rewards you with really good gas mileage (granted I don't close to the EPA window sticker or what some on the other threads indicate). I still rate this engine/tranny as the best in the mid size (4 cylinder) segment, but its just my opinion. Finally, the interior materials and drive are also really good.
Again this is just my two cents.
No kdhspyder, I think Hyundai is doing what's best for themselves, and so are the rest of the manuacturers. I think Hyundai is trying to use Toyota and Honda's greed to gain market share. They are using the new Sonata (actually not so new any more) to aim at the 17K-20K price range where many buyers are shut out from buying Accord and Camry. They have taken dead aim at Accord and Camry's quality, comfort, and reliability. They have scored a bullseye. Hyundai is a huge, milti-national corporation with nearly unlimited funds. They could sell at this price point for many years if necessary. They will be patient. We will know when Hyundai is ready to start reaping the same outrageous profits as Toyota and Honda. That day will be when Hyundai's prices are very close to T&H. It may be 2 years, it may be 6 or 8 years. But I think it will happen. Meanwhile, savvy car buyers can all but steal a Sonata for 17-20K out the door, and enjoy the rewards of an excellent game of marketing chess.
However, as my friend choe13 so often points out Toyota already stated over a year ago that Hyundai is a potential threat to Toyota's core business, the Camry. There is little ability now for Hyundai to sneak in 'under the radar' here.
BTW what if there is already a strategy in place to fight for every sale in the $17-19k price range if that becomes necessary. It's not obvious to the public but it's in place and can be turned on in an instant. What if all CE/LE 4c Camry's were sold at $16500, tomorrow on May 1st, with a whole new exciting way of doing business? Honda and Hyundai and Nissan all recognize the threat. GM/F/DC may not care much about it.
bobad are you serious? I have other complaints but I will just keep it at the most glaring ones. It is not as premium as the Camry and Accord. We've been talking about that for pages now.
By the way, Nissan's VQ is one of the best engines ever produced.
On another note, as I am flipping back in this forum, most I see are shortfalls of the Sonata (other than bashing, some I would agree as improvements need to make in upcoming refreshes), but I am surprised not seeing many shortfalls of other cars in discussions, some none at all...can it be, those cars are perfect?
I believe in the last C&D comparison, the Sonata and Accord tied from 0-60mph. But for the 1/4 mile, the Accord blasted ahead.