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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Once again, this is your perception. You want to pay the extra $3-4,000 for a perception.. go ahead. Me, I'm going to Maui with my $3-4,000.. Taking the family too!... :shades:
Really, what coastal state are you speaking of? I live in a Coastal state and Fusions/Milans are popping up all over.. :surprise:
Like you I love the drive train and everything else, but the build quality so far has been a huge disappointment. "
What?? Ok, Honda fans.. what do you say about this??
Actually it works quite well for me. The radio knobs are at near eye level. I don't have to take my eyes off the road to scan the lower dash for a button or knob like I did with every GM vehicle I owned. I thought the engineers were pretty clever that way. My only complaint was that they could have included a channel scan button on the steering wheel along with the rest of the audio controls. And looks BTW are subjective. What works for me won't work for you and vice versa. It's ridiculous to argue these points with you.
Once again you make it clear that you're the final arbitrator of what's perception and what's not. I guess if some consumers are willing to pay more for their Accords than your Fusion, then it must be perception. The alternative would be that Accord is a better car worth the extra money. Geez, that couldn't possibly be true. Trust me, I know better than YOU what defines a higher quality car for me.
Worth the extra money? I wonder why we all aren't driving Elantras and vacationing in Maui?
If I was to get a 4 cylinder Accord I would probably get a Japanese made one. I can tell every time within 20 seconds of observations (and I don't mean by looking at the PIN or window sticker) whether an Accord was made in Japan or Ohio. I dont' know why this is, but Japanese made Accords have better built quality.
You want to pay the extra $3-4,000 for a perception..
Uh, yeah, it is their perception. Just like you percieve the Fusion to have the best exterior style, I perceive the Fusion to have great exterior style and only acceptable interior ergonomics and build quality, just like you 'perceive' the Fusion to be the best value out there. Remember, EVERYTHING here except for things like price and actual dimensions of the vehicles is a 'perception.'
Personally, I 'perceived' the show WifeSwap to be totally stupid, where it apparently garners plenty of ratings. Life is based on perception, where (an overused phrase - but...) Perception is Reality.
I'd say his/her car is had some minor build issues from the factory. I'd also say that I would be unhappy if my car came like that. I'm a Honda owner. I also feel like the build quality of my 1996 is as good as that of my 2006, and world's ahead of anything else being offered presently (by Honda, Toyota, Ford, Nissan, etc...). Maybe Honda has sacrificed some build quality in order to grow the company...some would agree with that statement, some would disagree; frankly, I'm not sure whether or not I agree with it. My car has been lovely for the first 12,300 miles; delivers excellent economy, has the best interior (that I perceive!) on the market at its price ($22k), and does exactly what I expected it too and so much more (it actually gets "wow, sweet car!" from my Sunday School classmates when we go eat after church)...
I'm happy with Honda's quality.
They were thinking the same thing I am thinking: This layout is PERFECT! And it is. At least to my taste anyway. Of course not everyone has great taste like me.
Conclusion: Sonata has a better paint, fit and finish
What a coincidence. So did I! (Although I am not a Hyundai partisan, or "fan" as you put it)
One day I parked my dark blue Sonata by a brand new dark blue 3 series. Out of curiousity, I took a long, hard look at the paint and panel fit. I didn't have to look for long. The Beemer has very obvious orange peel on large areas of the body. My Sonata has a little micro-oragne peel here and there, and it's hard to find unless you're looking very hard for it. Body panel fit on the Beemer was equal to but no better than my Sonata.
I realize that every Sonata and every Beemer may be different than the cars I compared. But for that whopping price difference, it shouldn't even be close.
We first test drove the Mazda 3 hatch. To us it has enough power, and handles well. But we feel it could be slightly quieter on the highway.
This weekend we test-drove the Sonata GL V6 (no the the GLS). It has more than enough power, but we've found the automatic is a bit jerky when accelerating. Our Altima has the same symptom too, but we didn't find it on our friends 2000 Accord I4 (last generation Accord). The Sonata's V6 is pretty quiet at idle, but not nearly as quiet as a friend's 2005 Camry SE 3.3L. The friend let me drive her 2-year old Camry for about half an hour. There were a couple of times I thought the engine was off when waiting for the traffic light. I even mistakenly tried to start the engine while the engine was already running. I didn't hear any engine nosie at all. But with Sonata, I could easily hear the engine noise as I did with Mazda 3 and the Alitma. The wife doesn't like the soft ride of Camry though.
The interior of the Sonata (GL V6) is slightly better than our Altima, but we stil think it's not as good as the friend's Accord LX I4.
Our personal opinion is that the current Sonata is very close to last generation Camry and Accord. However, we haven't tested the new Camry or Accord yet. And we won't make our final decision before then. The thing is, the V6 Camry or Accord is almost $8,000 CAD (including interests, about $170/month more for 48-month term) more expensive than Sonata V6 GL. Accord SE V6 (5.9% APR) is about $830/month, while Sonata V6 GL is only about $660/month (0% APR). Accord SE I4 is about $720/month.
We will go and test drive the Accord I4 within a couple of weeks and see if it's worth the extra $60 CAD per month with the disadvantage of less horse power.
So far, we both like the Sonata more than Mazda 3 (4.9% APR), mainly because of the price. But we are also willing to bite the bullet to pay the extra $3000 ($60 x 48) get the 4 cylinder Accord if it wins our heart. Of course, if we don't like the Accord and the Mazda 3 APR drops a bit soon, we might just get a Mazda 3 hatch.
By the way, we are planning to keep the car as long as it runs well. So the resale value doesn't really matter very much to us.
We keep saying it because it's true. What you don't seem to recognize is that Hyundai has been improving at a much faster RATE than Accord and Camry. Hyundai has doubled their quality in the past 10 years without doubling their prices. What has A&C done in the past 10 years? Honestly, not much except raise their prices and rake in the cash from their "reputation".
-Cj
Bimmers, not Beemers, withstand the test of time. My guess is you were next to a 10 year old 3 series, not realizing it. Fit, finish and paint jobs on BMWs are above reproach. BMWs are noted for the vastly superior paint jobs over Japanese counterparts.
link title
You are right, any crash, if severe enough WILL produce injuries or fatalities.
Also, one incident regarding a car tells us nothing about the overall crash-worthiness of that car.
Hyundai has improved quality so much because there was a lot of scope for improvement. Can you positively say today that Hyundai will improve its quality by a 100% in the next few years over what it is today?
What the Accord and Camry have done in the past few decades is exactly what Hyundai is doing today; improving quality and public perception of its cars.
A&C in the last 10 years have demolished their competition to the tune of 800k cars per year; and let em tell you, if today we see lots of improved sales for the Sonata and Fusion, its not because A&C have lost quality/reliability, but becasue the SUV market has fallen through and more and more people are buying sedans today. The Camry is actually targeting its best sales ever in 2006
Yeah Backy you're right Four DEAD PEOPLE tell you nothing about the crash worthiness of a vehicle. :sick:
In your example about the bridge, it was the Honda, not the Guardian angel.
LOL. And only you know why you post what you post.
The discussion title is: Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread. That to me implies midsize sedans comparison, past, present and future.
"But how does it relate to this discussion?"
How does 90% of the last 100 posts relate to the discussion? A lot of them has been in the form of: "my car is cheaper than your car and my car has ECT."
That does not make for a better car. Honda and Toyota have earned their wings and charge market price for their cars. Hyundai cannot charge the same price for a "seemingly" equivalent (not really better) vehicle, they need the 10 year warranty to placate new owners to make up for years of bad cars.
Those who don't "understand" what Hyundai has to offer are getting ripped off by Honda and Toyota? Gee, that's what the G35 fans say about the 3 series owners.
You can do you own web search to search out stories and summaries of Sonota fatalities.
Actually, everyone charges market price for their cars--as in the price that the market will bear. Accords are selling at huge discounts, with large factory-to-dealer incentives. The Camry has lesser discounts because it's a new design (there were no rebates on the '06 Sonata for awhile after introduction either), but when the newness wears off I believe we will see rebates and large discounts on that car just as we saw on the previous-gen Camry.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
imazda: You are right about the relative speed. If the car wa still and was hit at 40 mph, the relative speed is 40 mph. If both cars were going 40 mph, the relative speed is 80 mph.
Even if this was not the case, I'm still not sure why he sited this article as blaming Honda for not keeping its occupants safe. Too many factors in this type of accident. Let's blame the right person, the driver of the Mustang. Hopefully they charge this person with vehicular homicide.
Govt wants automakers to have crash ratings on the sticker for new cars starting in 08MY I believe. The ratings, I am assuming, would come from NHTSA (which the Sonata received perfect scores )
To the extent bumpers are a problem, the bigger issue is bumpers not lining up...many SUV and truck bumpers are too high and go over the top of car bumpers.
Your impressions seem to be the exact opposite of reality. Cars have gotten heavier and safer, not lighter and more hazardous.
IIHS says: The designs of passenger vehicles have been improving for years, becoming more protective of their occupants in crashes.
http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr081006.html
Post after post on here where Honda religionists swear by the Honda legacy but ignore the truth. I know these posts will be deleted but at this point in the conversation I don't care.
Why would the posts be deleted? It didn't look like you posted anything out-of-line (although I don't necessarily agree with everything you said, it was still seemingly respectable from my perspective)...
I'm a little lost (A LOT of posts have been made since I last looked at this forum...) so forgive my being naive please
As for Honda relaxing safety standards... Honda is the first carmaker in the U.S. to equip all of its cars, from the cheapest Fit to the most expensive Odyssey, with at least six airbags and ABS. So why beat on them for relaxing safety standards?
Here is another tragic real-life case that shows it is impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions from a single incident: an Accord and Mustang hit head-on. The driver of the Mustang is killed. The driver of the Accord suffers two broken legs.
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/01/31/fatalax.html