If you want to see how to fix it and make work correctly. GM dealers have been making the change for you if you get smart enough to tell them what to do and these post do that.
A GM SB is in the works to provide an official wiring change.
Vince4 - Nice to hear from you again. Aux. Back-up lites attach to the hitch member so are back behind the bumper up high and not tooo vulnerabe. Also I have the 39gal Aux fuel tank located in place of the spare tire so they tuck in right up next to it.
My 99 1500 would rock and sway with even the popup camper on it. And the rear suspension was bottomed out. Added a rear anti-sway bar and air lifts and it was better - but not as good as the '00 2500 that the camper is on now. We did add air lifts to the 2500, mostly for leveling. The bigger truck carries the popup camper effortlessly. No rock and sway even without a rear anti-sway bar.
I think you will be happy with a popup. Just be sure and try to put the top up on one identical to what you will get. We didn't, and my wife can't put the top up/down.
It sounds like a popup is exactly what you need. You'll love the convenience and independence it gives you. Are you looking for new or used? I'm weakly in the market for a used 4-wheel popup. I'll keep my hardside for road trips and use the popup for off road. I haven't really looked too much because I don't have anywhere to store a second camper and I hate to pay. If you are looking at the used market, let me know what's out there; brand, age, cost, etc. From what looking I've done, it seems 4-wheel brand is a rare commodity used.
If you buy from a dealer, make them let you jack up the camper and back the truck in yourself before you close the deal so you know what's involved. It's not hard but some people find it nasty. Don't worry if you have a little trouble backing correctly, it comes with practice.
What kind of truck do you have? You'll need tie downs and wiring at least, and maybe some suspension help if the trailer + camper is too much. With the light popup I'd think a stock 3/4 ton would do okay.
First, welcome back. I see you still a night owl. I missed taking a trip between Christmas and New Year's Day. Good old Thermo kept the plant open in between.
From her profile, Laurie has a 2500HD. Should be OK with even a moderately heavy popup.
No clues on the wiring of the plug. My guess would be that they use the same plug and wiring for all campers, and the unused ones run inside and stop.
The outside vented battery is not so unusual. My camper had it, and I suspect it is a requirement to vent the battery outside to prevent buildup of explosive fumes inside the camper when charging the battery.
Finished the wiring project today. I used the GM relay and put the 2nd battery in the truck bed. I also re-wired the camper plug. Mine is a 3 wire--1 hot 1 ground and 1 for the clearence lights. The factory wire was 14 gauge which I think is too small for re-charging the batteries even though it was only about 4 ft. I called Sun-Lite and they said they had never had any problems with the small wire. I now have # 6 for all the batteries. This meant I had to install a much larger plug for the camper. I also installed a 600 watt inverter (so the wife can have dish tv). Now I have to find a place for the dish!!
That is strange to have so many wires. Probably most aren't used as Mike said and they just standardize on one plug/cable for all models. One use I can think of is to have a battery isolator in the camper. That would require one extra wire to drive the relay. Is the wire gauge all the same? Certainly the heavy wires will be for the power.
Sounds like you did a top notch job on the wiring. Hope you included a breaker or two.
600 watt inverter? Let's see how long you wife can watch dish tv. A converter box will take maybe 1.5A, a 9" TV takes about 5A (or are we talking 13" here!?) so say 6-7 amps. That's not bad, the incandescent auto bulb lights in mine take 1.5A each so that's like having 4 lights on, which would last a long time. (I have two batteries though)
What's the useful amp-hours from a deep cycle battery? I seem to remember around 130?
Yep, the gauge seems to be all 10 or so, stranded. There is also a white and green grounded to one of the jack brackets. If you could see this baby Bigfoot you'd really scratch your head. There is a threeway fridge, stove, water pump, heater, battery and thats all. Ooops, ther is also a Winegard aerial for a TV. Not sure yet if its amplified or not.
The wiring looks stock. It doesn't appear as if someone was adding accesories. Maybe Mike is right, some may run inside and terminate into space.
I found a good site on batteries----http://bart.ccis.com/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm gives some good info. Both of my camper batteres are rated for about 2.5 hrs. @ 25 amps each (5 hrs. @ 25 amps total). I used wire with THHN insulation (plastic over the rubber) and ran it in either wire loom or pvc conduit. It will take 6 breakers to protect it (as I figure it) and I haven't put them in yet.
Just read all 860 posts and I have many questions. I have just purchased a 2002 chevy 2500HD 4x4 long bed. I would like to purchase a Lance 835 slide-in camper. The Lance 835 has no overhang and weighs 2075 dry.
How different will my truck feel with a 2500# camper. How much does the straight stability change? What about roll or lean when driving straight? I'm also concerned about the braking performance. I plan on towing a boat (sometimes)at the same time. (will probably be slightly over GVW) I'm going to weigh the truck tomorrow but my guess is 6300# curb weight + 2500# camper with water and gear + 250# passengers (were small people)+ 400# boat tongue weight = 9450. The GVW for my truck is 9200. I have towed many campers and boats but never a heavy load IN the truck. I'm really picky about how a vehicle handles and consider this to be the make or break item for a slide-in.
About Slide-Ins. I have looked at the Lance 815 also. My main concern about this model is the shared holding tank with the shower and toilet. We do mostly dry camping. If the tank only holds 8 gallons, it seems to me that I cant even take much of a shower before the tank gets full. What would happen if I removed the stock toilet and added a portable type toilet? That way I could let the gray shower water run into the woods when camping. I could even easily move the toilet outside when taking a shower and my "wet bath" just became a much larger "dry bath". I'd like to hear any ones feedback.
Does any one know of other message boards about slide-ins. I like the content of this board, but the format is not up to date.
Look at www.irv2.com, www.lanceowners.com, www.trailerlife.com, and go to www.deja.com and look under outdoor recreation. I have done a lot of looking just to find these but they are all good.
Only you know how picky you are about the handling, etc. The only way to know if you will be happy with the combination is to try it, or one very similar to it. Does you dealer know anyone who has a similar truck and camper combo? Maybe you could test drive it?
Or could the dealer load the camper in your truck for a test drive? A hardside camper will add some rock and sway to your truck. You can reduce it with a rear anti-sway bar and air lifts, but you'll have to decide based on your sensitivities to the handling.
Have you considered a popup camper? Less weight in general, and less weight up high for sure. Less effect on the handling. My popup weighs about 1400# and was marginal, but acceptable on a 1500 with a sway bar and air lifts. The camper is almost un-noticed on my 2500.
You may be overestimating your weight, my 2500 with the two of us, our gear and the 1400# camper weighs 7360# (with a full tank of gas - 34 gal), leaving a gross margin of 1440#. If your camper is 700# more, and with the 400# tongue weight, I could still carry it on my truck. Your HD should have a least the same capacity as my 2500. Unless you have a diesel or maybe an extended cab.
I think we only have 250# of water and supplies in the camper, 350# of us for. Maybe you could pack lighter? Buy lightweight camping equipment and leave most of it home.
There is no doubt that putting something as large and heavy as a camper on your truck will make it handle much differently. You say you're picky about handling, if you really don't want ANY lean, roll, and sluggyness, then go with a camper shell. For a small impact, go with a popup. You'll get most of the amenities with a ride you can be happy with. If you want a hardside then I'll try to give you an idea of what to expect.
First, you must add all the suspension goodies available. Shocks, roll bar, maybe air bags. I have all that on my 2000 2500 4wd LB std cab except I need better shocks. My camper is 9.4' and about 2500lbs loaded. So you have the new version of my rig more or less.
The straight line stability is just fine. I don't feel any different with the camper or without. It's very easy to drive around town and on the freeway. Low speed and freeway corners are easy too, the truck feels stable and safe, but you can't have abrupt steering inputs. The real problem is lean and rocking. A corner too fast will really tilt it over and a quick jerk on the wheel can set up some side to side rocking. The rocking is also annoying when you go up or down a driveway at an angle. I hope new shocks will help this quite a bit.
I drive on mountain roads often and don't have a problem however I am forced to go slower. It does lean some but you get used to it. The truck feels MUCH different with the camper on, you have to expect that. You need to think ahead more and put more energy into staying on the road. That said, I always feel safe, in control, and usually relaxed when driving it.
As far as emergency maneuvers, I'm medium confident. I think I could avoid something pretty well but I don't know about the aftermath. Such a violent motion may be hard to correct. It's no worse than other types of RVs I suppose.
Braking with our trucks is great. No doubt, it takes longer to stop. No getting around the physics. But I rarely feel like I'm pushing the brakes very hard and I've never had any fade at all.
You are wise to be concerned about the shower draining into the black tank. I'd try to stay away from any model that does that. Mine does and it's the worst thing about the whole camper. I don't agree at all with your idea of altering the toilet to increase the shower capacity. The toilet is the important part! I'm eventually going to fix mine with a pump and some clever plumbing but until then I take very short showers, sponge off, or shower outside. Two quick showers adds about 1/4 tank. By far the outside shower is the best solution, be sure to get one. Sometimes it's just not an option though so then I do the other. This design is only a problem if you aren't willing to dump black water on the ground, which is bad. I'll do gray if I must but not black.
You better find a truck/camper as close to yours as possible to try out if you are going with the hardside. Remember that good tires and suspension upgrades can make a real difference though.
About my bathroom modification. If I buy a Lance 815 with shared tanks.
My idea was to completely convert the stock black tank to a grey(shower) water tank. That way I would be doubling my grey water capacity, and if I needed I could drain soapy water from the grey tanks. I would never dump anything else. I would still need a toilet so thats why I asked about removing the original toilet and add a portable one with its own small holding tank.
I finally finished the duel batteries and satellite installation today. Works great WOW. I mounted the receiver on the ceiling, routed the cables along the roof lifting bars and cut in a receptacle from the inverter in the space above the converter. Made a pretty neat job. I have the dish on a removable bracket mounted to the carry-all on the back of the truck. I cut in a coax connector in the rubber part of the bumper and ran the cable under the truck and came up through the front stake hole of the bed with the camper wiring. I already had a cable connector coming from the same place the AC cord comes out. NOW to replace the old TV. The satellite receiver draws 35 watts.
If you did end up with a shared tank I'd still give the toilet priority. If you want to dump the shower water you can dig into it's plumbing and run a hose out under the camper. Or just live with it as is and adapt. So far I've done okay with some small compromises. Like taking an outside shower on a cold day when I'd much rather be inside.
All this talk has got me thinking about modifying my plumbing again. Hmm, time to remove the access panel and stare at it some more. I'm a little reluctant to tear into something that works and doesn't leak, but it would be nice to come up with a clever solution.
Wow that sounds like a pretty extensive installation. And in a popup too. Will there be any room left for people!? I think we need a picture when you are done.
I went to the huge RV show at the Alameda County Fair Grounds in Pleasanton last weekend. This time I wanted to only stay a few hours, which turned into almost 6. Even at that we skipped a bunch. It's fun checking out the $200k class-A rigs with leather, Corian, washer dryers, etc. There were some nice small units to. Scamper makes a really cute 13' trailer and some of the new popup trailers with slideout seating are pretty decent. The hardside popup trailers take the cake for elaborate design. A few had solid walls around the bathroom which required all the walls to be hinged about 1/3 up from the floor. I had a hard time seeing how it all folded up for transport.
I saw some campers that I haven't seen before, like Summerwind, Adventurer, S&S, and more. Lance has a bunch of new models. Of course the big thing is slideouts. They still all suffer from the same issues of climbing (some not as high as Lance), loss of seating and storage space, and weight due to the slideout. I'll wait for a rear slider. I did see something I didn't expect - a camper with a garage. Prop up the optional ramps and drive your ATV right in. Wow. It was made by Fleetwood.
Since I acquired some new web site addresses, I thought it was a good time to present the Ultimate Camper List one more time for those shoppers out there.
2000 Palomino Pop Up Slide in 8 Ft Bronco 1200 Model which a local dealer has. Spoke with them at an RV Show. It has a 3 way fridge as opposed to ice box, but he couldn't remember if it had a hot water heater off the top of his head. Need to take a look this weekend. The camper was purchased by a couple in 2001, was brand new/left over model. They used it once and the lady found her self to be extremely claustrophobic and could not sleep in the cab over. They immediatly returned it for something else. Unit is basically brand new, used one time - Price $4000 firm - Sound like a good deal?
Hot water heater. That is one option we were sure we needed, and now we rarely use. The only time it is needed is when we want to use the outside shower. Otherwise it is just as easy to heat water in a pan on the stove. In other words, if it doesn't have a water heater, don't worry about too much. You could add it if you had to, but mostly you don't need it.
Now the three way refrig is a much better deal than an icebox. Run 12V whenever you are on the road, 120V whenever you are plugged in and gas when you are not plugged in. Ours keeps stuff fresh even when we travel in 100 degree heat.
Yes that sounds like a good deal. I was looking at a 4 year old similar unit and the private owner wouldn't go below $4000, he started higher.
Any camper you buy MUST have a fridge (no ice box) and a heater. Those, and keeping the rain off your head are the most important aspects of a camper in my opinion.
I use my water heater almost always, but my last camper didn't have one and I got along okay. The most important reason to have one is for showering. The next most important is for dishes but that's just a convenience since it's easy to heat water. If you want to spend the money later you can probably add one. If the rest of the camper is right I'd go for it.
Sorry, my email address did change and I haven't updated my profile. I'll do it now. You can get me at vcm@attbi.com.
Not that anyone will probably care but my web page moved too. It's at http://home.attbi.com/~vcm now. To the newcomers, there are pictures of some of our rigs there. Everyone should send me updated pictures and I'll post them.
Does anyone know of a 14 or 15 inch wheel that will fit the 4 bolt pattern on Coleman,Starcraft etc. tent trailers?I would like to slow the rotation speed down and have more off road clearence-thanks
The answers are no, and no. I've never heard of Valor campers nor of a wheel for a popup. Putting on a larger wheel seems like a good idea. It will raise the step-in height some. Most small Japanese cars have 4 bolts, is the diameter the same?
Mike I obviously have some maintenance to do on the web page. I had a heck of a time getting the files onto the new attbi server. I have a new computer with WindowsME and they took away the old Web Publisher I used in Win98. Does anyone know what they replaced it with and how to send files to a web server? I used ftp and it was a pain because I couldn't get it to copy subdirectories.
Just a short interruption to announce this interesting new discussion: Pickup Trucks for Women (Experiences/Opinions). Come check it out and join in the discussion if you'd like. Thanks for your participation.
And now back to the subject of Cabover Campers & Camper Trailers. ;-)
Need to put an air conditioner on our Lance 1010 and I want to make sure I make the right decision. My local RV dealer wants to put on eithere a Coleman or a duotherm for 550 dollars, that seems reasonable but whats the difference and your preferance between Duotherm and Coleman? Both are 13,500 units. The dealer where I bought my camper from is trying to talk me into the Penguin model from Duotherm, its more money but he claims I'll like it more. Any of you people have any advice for me that would make this an easier decision for me?
I have the Duo-Therm Brisk Air on my Sun-Lite POP-UP. It has done a good job for nearly 3 years--no problems yet. I also added the heat strips which simply plug in. There may be another model that runs a little more quietly.
in Colorado Springs.The Car Store on North Nevada Ave.Nevada has an exit off I-25 on the north end of town.They have been in town for years selling used cars-good to see 4-Wheel beginning to develop a dealer network.
Hi Guys--Well, finally got my truck--02 Chev CC 3500,Lt,4x4, dually, 8100 w/allison. Considering some of the posts, have I made the "Right Choice"???? My dream plan for this truck was to retire in a year and put a lance slidein on the truck and pull a enclosed motorcycle trailer(4800lb)-- You guys are a god sent wealth of info and I wish I had checked out your advice earlier but now I got what I got LOL-- Well is the dream possible or am I going to have a hard time sleeping at night???? Any advice is truly appreciated and also any recommendations on this combo that warrant immediate modifications--Thks all
I have no idea if you will be happy with your choice or not. Some are happy with a lot less and go tent camping. Some wouldn't be caught in a little rig like yours and need a $600,000 motorhome.
My suggestion would be to get the camper earlier and use it before retirement. Make sure it suits your needs before you take off on a long trip.
Having said that, I'll tell you that we left on a six week vacation just 4 weeks after we got our first camper. And it worked out OK for us.
Hi Mike--LOL--Thks for the response-Ill pass on the 600,000 idea tho-- I think I was more concerned about any encountered problems with the 8100/allison as noted in previous posts-- Also you right--I plan on geting the camper 4 mts prior to retirement-- Thks--grumpy
I think the Allison problems have only been on the '01.If anyone has prob with an '02 I'd like to be corrected.There was a pre production recall on the torque converter which is not the same as the Isuzu cab-over diesel.The T/C in the big truck don't fit between the frame rails on the pickup.There were electronic malfunctions on the pickups in '01 and Allison asked to have the complete tranny returned for research.(two from me)The vortech 8100 is a re-engineered 454.It has different heads,intake manifold, valve train,and other changes.It also had pre-release recall of the pushrods.The 8.1/Allison was supposed to be on the market in 10/00 but were'nt available until 01/01.Many of these were the re-worked early modles(mine included)and in my experience,if you have a problem the're glad to fix it. kip
Thks kip--appreciate the info--sets my little mind at rest--LOL. Do you know if there is a production cut-off date for the 8100/allison problems-- The truck is a 2002 and the label shows date of Aug 01-- It will take me awhile to get used to this truck but so far so good-Thks again- Grumpy
I was told by the dealer's shop foreman that he hadn't seen any '02 problems.the tranny in my truck now was installed in Aug.I have put about 11 mi on this one and had one minor shifting irregularity.After what i've gone thru with this truck I'm watching it closely.In 17k mi(total) much of that towing ,I've never been stranded but the jerkey shifting was really irratating.I was told by a neighbor yesterday that GM is replacing lifters now for engine noise complaints.I'll see on the 26th when GM's engineer listens to mine.From what I've read here some people have been told to live with it but my layer says I don't have to. kip
Regarding the allison tranny problem / GM Engine Knock stuff - I have a 2001 GMC Sierra with 16K and have only experienced a shifting problem once or twice. I'm not convinced that it was an actual problem as I'm still getting used to the way the truck runs. I've never had a 3/4 Ton before, nor a 4.10 rear, so the low gearing is much different for me. I paid close attention over the last week and she seems to be shifting fine. And I have no knock on startup. I'm keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed - Back to the camper stuff.
OK - finally looked at the Palomino Slide In Pop Up B1250 Model - Liked it alot, excellent condition almost new $4000 + Tax. I was ready to go for it, but I forgot about....all the other "residuals"....
4 Way Wiring to the rear of the truck for the lights, belly bar front tie down, rear tie downs, turnbuckles, deep cycle marine aux battery with wiring to cut off from the truck battery when vehicle is not running (some type of solinoid switchy thing :>)...all the wire and the labor to put it in/on the truck - $564 + Tax
Geez..This is getting expensive :>)..so much so I don't think I can swing it just yet. The dealer has given me first refusal on the camper, so I wasn't pressured into buying it on the spot. Will try to save some more dough in the meantime.
Anyone out there have experience with the Tork Lock Tork Lift Frame Mount Camper Tiedowns? I like these better than the belly bar and the bolts into the bumper. Do you think these or a belly bar are going overboard for tieing down a pop up slider?
That sounds like a good deal on the camper. A good used popup for less than $5K is OK. And you are getting a battery and the mounts installed and wiring for less than $5K.
I would suggest you put the top up on the camper (do it yourself to find out how difficult it is) and check the soft sides for wear, tears, etc.
The term 'belly bar' is one I'm not familiar with. I only have experience with 'Happi-Jac' tiedowns, and I'm happy with them. They have the mounts that bolt into the rear bumper. My Happi-Jac's had an optional front tie bar that would connect the front mounts across the front of the pickup bed. The tie bar was so wimpy, I passed on it and made my own out of 1"x2"x1/8" rectangular tube. Way strong! If that is the 'belly bar' I'd pass on it unless you are planning on alot of off road use.
The only thing else that comes to mind is the mounts that go under the frame and come out on each side and chains go down to the bar.
The belly bar is the thing which mounts on the frame at the front of the bed, under the truck, as opposed to having the happy jack dog ear things which mount between the bed and the cab with another bar at the front of the bed to which the "dog ears" are bolted to. I prefer to drill as few holes as possible in my truck. The tork lift things are pretty interesting. See here:
They look nice and clean, clearly away from the sides of the truck and pretty invisible when not being used.I just wonder if something like these or a belly bar is overkill for a lightweight camper such as the one I'm looking at.
I talked to someone last night who has the same camper (her's has a water pump, the one I'm looking at doesn't). She does not have a deep cycle battery, just runs everything (furnace and water pump) off her truck battery without any problem. Claims that she's never had her truck battery run down on her. If she's somewhere for more than a couple of days, she just runs the truck for a little while to charge her up again. Her trips are basically the same as mine. I don't figure I'll have to run the furnace more that 4 to 6 times per year maximum (and I'll be able to plug in to electric on some of those occassions). Any thoughts on foregoing the deep cycle for now and maybe putting it in later?
I did try the crank up and down, it's very smooth and easy. Vinyl is in excellent condition, clean and white, no rips etc. The camper still has the plastic on the mattress. The cushions look like they's never been sat on, not a wrinkle or spot on them. The only way you can tell this thing was used is that there is a slight discoloration on one of the stove burners from the heat of the flame. They probably made a pot of coffee after being unable to sleep all night from the claustrophobia. It was used twice and traded in for something bigger. I know I won't find another like it at this price!
I would have a battery and an cutout to isolate the camper from the truck battery. It may never happen, but running down the (only) truck battery is not pleasant. It is just another form of insurance.
We've been over 100 miles from the nearest tow truck (in Alaska) and 8+ hours from any assistance (in Death Valley) and don't want to take the risk. Shoot, I've got 3 batteries, the main truck battery, aux battery (for the camper) under the hood, and a battery in the camper. If my main battery goes out, I can jump start myself! And, what you do with the camper may change in the future. Who knows, a week at a little lake, fishing, relaxing?
The Torklift things are kind of interesting, but it looks like you have to drill holes in the frame to mount them. The Happi-Jacs have holes drilled in the bed; and with the tie bar I have, you won't be able to bend the front of the bed unless the camper moves forward and takes out the whole front of the bed. I'd rather drill holes in the bed than the frame. When I took the camper out of my 1500, I put hole plugs in the holes and painted them with my touchup paint. You can't even tell the holes were there.
Sounds like you found a keeper in the camper. Does it have a refrig? We have a 3-way and use it all the time. Water heater - rarely. Furnace - when it is cold and we are up; I modified a thermostat so I can set it for 35 at night and prevent freezing. Water pump - handy, but a manual pump would suffice. Stove - essential.
I figured I'd be better safe than sorry. The tork lift ties use existing frame holes in some models, others need to have holes drilled. Will probably go for something else though. Dealer quoted front set at $179, rear set at $209 plus $62 X 2 for the spring load turnbuckles. Too Pricey for me. I like the concept of having some give in the tiedows though. I was wondering if a rigid bar with no give could possibly pull the eye bolts out of the camper.
Another friend of mine has a universal mount tie down bar (the one that goes under the truck), turnbuckles and a set of fold up aluminum steps only a year old that they want to sell. (They bought a 5th Wheel). I'm Supposed to get a price on that package tonight, so maybe I can save some dough there.
The Camper has a 3 Way Fridge, Furnace, Stove and manual water pump. I think that's everything I need for now. How the heck do you stay warm with the stat on 35 in Alaska? Must have some heavy duty down comforters in that rig!
Actually, in Alaska we had sunshine (in 3 weeks it was only dark inside a train tunnel) all the time, and not too cold. It was colder in Death Valley (low 20's near Racetrack @4500') and in the Sierra's where we got a foot of new snow one morning. And you really don't want to get up in the middle of the night! I mounted the thermostat where we can reach it from the bed. Flip it up and wait 5 minutes. Yes, we have a nice down comforter.
The 3 way fridge will pull your battery down in a couple of hours if you forget and leave it on 12V. That is when you really need the separate electrical systems........don't remember how I know that!!
I also like having some give in the tiedown. Once, off-road, we twisted the truck enough that one of the rigid tiedowns sent a no longer S shaped hook flying. Also bent my wife out of shape. Then I bought the Happi-Jac tiedowns to go with the Happi-Jac mounts.
I have Torklift tiedowns on my 2001 Ford F350. The fronts mount using existing holes in both the frame and the box and the rears mount to my factory receiver. I paid $365 for my tiedowns including spring-loaded anchors and all the hardware for both ends. The current MSRP for the Happi Jacs is about $230 for just the front tiedowns, adding the rears and the turnbuckles brings the total near or over what I paid for my Torklifts. I can safely lift either side of my truck off the ground using my tiedowns, something I'd never consider doing with a Happi jac.
Steve Heywood 2001 F350 4X4 Supercab 2002 Lance 1010
Comments
GM dealers have been making the change for you if you get smart enough to tell them what to do and these post do that.
A GM SB is in the works to provide an official wiring change.
Vince4 - Nice to hear from you again.
Aux. Back-up lites attach to the hitch member so are back behind the bumper up high and not tooo vulnerabe.
Also I have the 39gal Aux fuel tank located in place of the spare tire so they tuck in right up next to it.
75v/Loren
I think you will be happy with a popup. Just be sure and try to put the top up on one identical to what you will get. We didn't, and my wife can't put the top up/down.
Later,
Mike L
If you buy from a dealer, make them let you jack up the camper and back the truck in yourself before you close the deal so you know what's involved. It's not hard but some people find it nasty. Don't worry if you have a little trouble backing correctly, it comes with practice.
What kind of truck do you have? You'll need tie downs and wiring at least, and maybe some suspension help if the trailer + camper is too much. With the light popup I'd think a stock 3/4 ton would do okay.
From her profile, Laurie has a 2500HD. Should be OK with even a moderately heavy popup.
Mike L
The outside vented battery is not so unusual. My camper had it, and I suspect it is a requirement to vent the battery outside to prevent buildup of explosive fumes inside the camper when charging the battery.
Mike L
600 watt inverter? Let's see how long you wife can watch dish tv. A converter box will take maybe 1.5A, a 9" TV takes about 5A (or are we talking 13" here!?) so say 6-7 amps. That's not bad, the incandescent auto bulb lights in mine take 1.5A each so that's like having 4 lights on, which would last a long time. (I have two batteries though)
What's the useful amp-hours from a deep cycle battery? I seem to remember around 130?
The wiring looks stock. It doesn't appear as if someone was adding accesories. Maybe Mike is right, some may run inside and terminate into space.
Just read all 860 posts and I have many questions.
I have just purchased a 2002 chevy 2500HD 4x4 long bed. I would like to purchase a Lance 835 slide-in camper. The Lance 835 has no overhang and weighs 2075 dry.
How different will my truck feel with a 2500# camper. How much does the straight stability change? What about roll or lean when driving straight? I'm also concerned about the braking performance. I plan on towing a boat (sometimes)at the same time. (will probably be slightly over GVW) I'm going to weigh the truck tomorrow but my guess is 6300# curb weight + 2500# camper with water and gear + 250# passengers (were small people)+ 400# boat tongue weight = 9450. The GVW for my truck is 9200. I have towed many campers and boats but never a heavy load IN the truck. I'm really picky about how a vehicle handles and consider this to be the make or break item for a slide-in.
About Slide-Ins. I have looked at the Lance 815 also. My main concern about this model is the shared holding tank with the shower and toilet. We do mostly dry camping. If the tank only holds 8 gallons, it seems to me that I cant even take much of a shower before the tank gets full. What would happen if I removed the stock toilet and added a portable type toilet? That way I could let the gray shower water run into the woods when camping. I could even easily move the toilet outside when taking a shower and my "wet bath" just became a much larger "dry bath". I'd like to hear any ones feedback.
Does any one know of other message boards about slide-ins. I like the content of this board, but the format is not up to date.
Thanks for the help
Mike P
Look at www.irv2.com, www.lanceowners.com, www.trailerlife.com, and go to www.deja.com and look under outdoor recreation. I have done a lot of looking just to find these but they are all good.
Lee Underwood
Or could the dealer load the camper in your truck for a test drive? A hardside camper will add some rock and sway to your truck. You can reduce it with a rear anti-sway bar and air lifts, but you'll have to decide based on your sensitivities to the handling.
Have you considered a popup camper? Less weight in general, and less weight up high for sure. Less effect on the handling. My popup weighs about 1400# and was marginal, but acceptable on a 1500 with a sway bar and air lifts. The camper is almost un-noticed on my 2500.
You may be overestimating your weight, my 2500 with the two of us, our gear and the 1400# camper weighs 7360# (with a full tank of gas - 34 gal), leaving a gross margin of 1440#. If your camper is 700# more, and with the 400# tongue weight, I could still carry it on my truck. Your HD should have a least the same capacity as my 2500. Unless you have a diesel or maybe an extended cab.
I think we only have 250# of water and supplies in the camper, 350# of us for. Maybe you could pack lighter? Buy lightweight camping equipment and leave most of it home.
Mike L
For other forums see
http://www.travelbyroad.net/index.cgi
http://irv2.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=cfrm&s=089094322 (a good one)
http://www.lanceowners.com/
There is no doubt that putting something as large and heavy as a camper on your truck will make it handle much differently. You say you're picky about handling, if you really don't want ANY lean, roll, and sluggyness, then go with a camper shell. For a small impact, go with a popup. You'll get most of the amenities with a ride you can be happy with. If you want a hardside then I'll try to give you an idea of what to expect.
First, you must add all the suspension goodies available. Shocks, roll bar, maybe air bags. I have all that on my 2000 2500 4wd LB std cab except I need better shocks. My camper is 9.4' and about 2500lbs loaded. So you have the new version of my rig more or less.
The straight line stability is just fine. I don't feel any different with the camper or without. It's very easy to drive around town and on the freeway. Low speed and freeway corners are easy too, the truck feels stable and safe, but you can't have abrupt steering inputs. The real problem is lean and rocking. A corner too fast will really tilt it over and a quick jerk on the wheel can set up some side to side rocking. The rocking is also annoying when you go up or down a driveway at an angle. I hope new shocks will help this quite a bit.
I drive on mountain roads often and don't have a problem however I am forced to go slower. It does lean some but you get used to it. The truck feels MUCH different with the camper on, you have to expect that. You need to think ahead more and put more energy into staying on the road. That said, I always feel safe, in control, and usually relaxed when driving it.
As far as emergency maneuvers, I'm medium confident. I think I could avoid something pretty well but I don't know about the aftermath. Such a violent motion may be hard to correct. It's no worse than other types of RVs I suppose.
Braking with our trucks is great. No doubt, it takes longer to stop. No getting around the physics. But I rarely feel like I'm pushing the brakes very hard and I've never had any fade at all.
You are wise to be concerned about the shower draining into the black tank. I'd try to stay away from any model that does that. Mine does and it's the worst thing about the whole camper. I don't agree at all with your idea of altering the toilet to increase the shower capacity. The toilet is the important part! I'm eventually going to fix mine with a pump and some clever plumbing but until then I take very short showers, sponge off, or shower outside. Two quick showers adds about 1/4 tank. By far the outside shower is the best solution, be sure to get one. Sometimes it's just not an option though so then I do the other. This design is only a problem if you aren't willing to dump black water on the ground, which is bad. I'll do gray if I must but not black.
You better find a truck/camper as close to yours as possible to try out if you are going with the hardside. Remember that good tires and suspension upgrades can make a real difference though.
About my bathroom modification. If I buy a Lance 815 with shared tanks.
My idea was to completely convert the stock black tank to a grey(shower) water tank. That way I would be doubling my grey water capacity, and if I needed I could drain soapy water from the grey tanks. I would never dump anything else. I would still need a toilet so thats why I asked about removing the original toilet and add a portable one with its own small holding tank.
Thanks again for your feedback.
Mike P
All this talk has got me thinking about modifying my plumbing again. Hmm, time to remove the access panel and stare at it some more. I'm a little reluctant to tear into something that works and doesn't leak, but it would be nice to come up with a clever solution.
I saw some campers that I haven't seen before, like Summerwind, Adventurer, S&S, and more. Lance has a bunch of new models. Of course the big thing is slideouts. They still all suffer from the same issues of climbing (some not as high as Lance), loss of seating and storage space, and weight due to the slideout. I'll wait for a rear slider. I did see something I didn't expect - a camper with a garage. Prop up the optional ramps and drive your ATV right in. Wow. It was made by Fleetwood.
Since I acquired some new web site addresses, I thought it was a good time to present the Ultimate Camper List one more time for those shoppers out there.
HARDSIDE:
http://www.bigfootrv.com/
http://www.lancecamper.com/
http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/truck_campers.html
http://www.skylinerv.com/2weekender.htm
http://www.wrv.com/products/index_atc_ltd.html (Alpenlite)
http://www.starcraftrv.com/hardsidetc.html
http://www.northern-lite.com/
http://www.nashtraveltrailers.com/campers.html (Arctic Fox)
http://northlandcampers.com/index.shtml
http://www.summerwindcampers.com/
http://www.hallmarkrv.com/
http://www.okanaganrv.com/camper.htm
http://www.shadowcruiser.com/
http://www.kz-rv.com/truck_camper/truck_campers_index.htm (Sportsman)
http://www.s-scamper.com/
http://www.wcrv.net (Adventurer)
POPUP:
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/
http://www.palominorv.com/
http://www.phoenixcampers.com/index.html
http://sunliteinc.com/
http://www.northstarcampers.com/ (RC Willet)
http://www.alaskancamper.com
http://www.lite-craftcampers.com
http://www.hallmarkrv.com/
Hot water heater. That is one option we were sure we needed, and now we rarely use. The only time it is needed is when we want to use the outside shower. Otherwise it is just as easy to heat water in a pan on the stove. In other words, if it doesn't have a water heater, don't worry about too much. You could add it if you had to, but mostly you don't need it.
Now the three way refrig is a much better deal than an icebox. Run 12V whenever you are on the road, 120V whenever you are plugged in and gas when you are not plugged in. Ours keeps stuff fresh even when we travel in 100 degree heat.
Good luck,
Mike L
Any camper you buy MUST have a fridge (no ice box) and a heater. Those, and keeping the rain off your head are the most important aspects of a camper in my opinion.
I use my water heater almost always, but my last camper didn't have one and I got along okay. The most important reason to have one is for showering. The next most important is for dishes but that's just a convenience since it's easy to heat water. If you want to spend the money later you can probably add one. If the rest of the camper is right I'd go for it.
Not that anyone will probably care but my web page moved too. It's at http://home.attbi.com/~vcm now. To the newcomers, there are pictures of some of our rigs there. Everyone should send me updated pictures and I'll post them.
Vince
But, I found the pictures of Brutus's truck and our truck didn't open. The rest seemed to open ok, but not those two sets. ??
Mike L
Mike I obviously have some maintenance to do on the web page. I had a heck of a time getting the files onto the new attbi server. I have a new computer with WindowsME
And now back to the subject of Cabover Campers & Camper Trailers. ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
My local RV dealer wants to put on eithere a Coleman or a duotherm for 550 dollars, that seems reasonable but whats the difference and your preferance between Duotherm and Coleman? Both are 13,500 units. The dealer where I bought my camper from is trying to talk me into the Penguin model from Duotherm, its more money but he claims I'll like it more. Any of you people have any advice for me that would make this an easier decision for me?
Thanks
Ronnie
Considering some of the posts, have I made the "Right Choice"????
My dream plan for this truck was to retire in a year and put a lance slidein on the truck and pull a enclosed motorcycle trailer(4800lb)--
You guys are a god sent wealth of info and I wish I had checked out your advice earlier but now I got what I got LOL--
Well is the dream possible or am I going to have a hard time sleeping at night????
Any advice is truly appreciated and also any recommendations on this combo that warrant immediate modifications--Thks all
My suggestion would be to get the camper earlier and use it before retirement. Make sure it suits your needs before you take off on a long trip.
Having said that, I'll tell you that we left on a six week vacation just 4 weeks after we got our first camper. And it worked out OK for us.
Mike L
I think I was more concerned about any encountered problems with the 8100/allison as noted in previous posts--
Also you right--I plan on geting the camper 4 mts prior to retirement--
Thks--grumpy
kip
Do you know if there is a production cut-off date for the 8100/allison problems--
The truck is a 2002 and the label shows date of Aug 01--
It will take me awhile to get used to this truck but so far so good-Thks again-
Grumpy
kip
OK - finally looked at the Palomino Slide In Pop Up B1250 Model - Liked it alot, excellent condition almost new $4000 + Tax. I was ready to go for it, but I forgot about....all the other "residuals"....
4 Way Wiring to the rear of the truck for the lights, belly bar front tie down, rear tie downs, turnbuckles, deep cycle marine aux battery with wiring to cut off from the truck battery when vehicle is not running (some type of solinoid switchy thing :>)...all the wire and the labor to put it in/on the truck - $564 + Tax
Geez..This is getting expensive :>)..so much so I don't think I can swing it just yet. The dealer has given me first refusal on the camper, so I wasn't pressured into buying it on the spot. Will try to save some more dough in the meantime.
Anyone out there have experience with the Tork Lock Tork Lift Frame Mount Camper Tiedowns? I like these better than the belly bar and the bolts into the bumper. Do you think these or a belly bar are going overboard for tieing down a pop up slider?
I would suggest you put the top up on the camper (do it yourself to find out how difficult it is) and check the soft sides for wear, tears, etc.
The term 'belly bar' is one I'm not familiar with. I only have experience with 'Happi-Jac' tiedowns, and I'm happy with them. They have the mounts that bolt into the rear bumper. My Happi-Jac's had an optional front tie bar that would connect the front mounts across the front of the pickup bed. The tie bar was so wimpy, I passed on it and made my own out of 1"x2"x1/8" rectangular tube. Way strong! If that is the 'belly bar' I'd pass on it unless you are planning on alot of off road use.
The only thing else that comes to mind is the mounts that go under the frame and come out on each side and chains go down to the bar.
Is that what you call a belly bar?
Mike L
http://www.torklift.com/loadit.html
They look nice and clean, clearly away from the sides of the truck and pretty invisible when not being used.I just wonder if something like these or a belly bar is overkill for a lightweight camper such as the one I'm looking at.
I talked to someone last night who has the same camper (her's has a water pump, the one I'm looking at doesn't). She does not have a deep cycle battery, just runs everything (furnace and water pump) off her truck battery without any problem. Claims that she's never had her truck battery run down on her. If she's somewhere for more than a couple of days, she just runs the truck for a little while to charge her up again. Her trips are basically the same as mine. I don't figure I'll have to run the furnace more that 4 to 6 times per year maximum (and I'll be able to plug in to electric on some of those occassions). Any thoughts on foregoing the deep cycle for now and maybe putting it in later?
I did try the crank up and down, it's very smooth and easy. Vinyl is in excellent condition, clean and white, no rips etc. The camper still has the plastic on the mattress. The cushions look like they's never been sat on, not a wrinkle or spot on them. The only way you can tell this thing was used is that there is a slight discoloration on one of the stove burners from the heat of the flame. They probably made a pot of coffee after being unable to sleep all night from the claustrophobia. It was used twice and traded in for something bigger. I know I won't find another like it at this price!
We've been over 100 miles from the nearest tow truck (in Alaska) and 8+ hours from any assistance (in Death Valley) and don't want to take the risk. Shoot, I've got 3 batteries, the main truck battery, aux battery (for the camper) under the hood, and a battery in the camper. If my main battery goes out, I can jump start myself! And, what you do with the camper may change in the future. Who knows, a week at a little lake, fishing, relaxing?
The Torklift things are kind of interesting, but it looks like you have to drill holes in the frame to mount them. The Happi-Jacs have holes drilled in the bed; and with the tie bar I have, you won't be able to bend the front of the bed unless the camper moves forward and takes out the whole front of the bed. I'd rather drill holes in the bed than the frame. When I took the camper out of my 1500, I put hole plugs in the holes and painted them with my touchup paint. You can't even tell the holes were there.
Sounds like you found a keeper in the camper. Does it have a refrig? We have a 3-way and use it all the time. Water heater - rarely. Furnace - when it is cold and we are up; I modified a thermostat so I can set it for 35 at night and prevent freezing. Water pump - handy, but a manual pump would suffice. Stove - essential.
Good luck,
Mike L
Another friend of mine has a universal mount tie down bar (the one that goes under the truck), turnbuckles and a set of fold up aluminum steps only a year old that they want to sell. (They bought a 5th Wheel). I'm Supposed to get a price on that package tonight, so maybe I can save some dough there.
The Camper has a 3 Way Fridge, Furnace, Stove and manual water pump. I think that's everything I need for now. How the heck do you stay warm with the stat on 35 in Alaska? Must have some heavy duty down comforters in that rig!
The 3 way fridge will pull your battery down in a couple of hours if you forget and leave it on 12V. That is when you really need the separate electrical systems........don't remember how I know that!!
I also like having some give in the tiedown. Once, off-road, we twisted the truck enough that one of the rigid tiedowns sent a no longer S shaped hook flying. Also bent my wife out of shape. Then I bought the Happi-Jac tiedowns to go with the Happi-Jac mounts.
Mike L
Steve Heywood
2001 F350 4X4 Supercab
2002 Lance 1010