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Dodge Challenger 2008 and Later
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Comments
Ron
I lost my job at General Motors when I came Home from Vietnam, my father lost his when they CLOSED it because of slumping sales in American Cars, and all the [non-permissible content removed] Crap was starting to assemble their cars in the US, so they could say "BUILT in AMERICA"! I just wish that the American Public could see exactly what they are doing to us, the entire country of the United States, everytime they purchase a foreign car! I still do not believe it when I hear that they build a better car then us! Now that is a "Left Wing Conspiracy"! I will walk before I ever purchase a Japanese car, I'll stick to the "American Muscle" Thank You! But to each his own, as long as your Happy driving what you are! This is only MY OPINION, nobody else's!
Whooop!
So, if forgekiller thinks Ford 'copied' Plymouth by releasing the Mustang 2 weeks after the 'cuda, then he must have a higher opinion of the capability of Ford than even I do.
And the first Mustangs' ('64-1/2) had a 260 V8. The 289 came with the '65 models. The HiPo289 was rated at 271hp in the Mustangs. Shelby massaged them the HiPo289 to get 306hp (in GT350) and close to 360hp in full race tune (in the GT350R).
I will agree with you guys on one huge point: the current Charger looks stupid as a 4 door. Chargers are (if done correctly) 2 door cars. And the upcoming Challenger looks REALLY sweet.
yeah...right...sure it did.
Did you get some decaf yet?
The first barracuda may have beat the first Mustang to the show room floor but it was nothing but a souped up valient with a fastback....and it was UGGGLY...The Mustang was a totally new, and beautiful, design....Ford made great cars back then....To bad they don't anymore...Old Henry must be turning over in his grave.....
:confuse:
Ever heard of Carrol Shelby?
Are you aware of the Mustang Shelby GT350 which dominated their class in SCCA road racing in the mid 60's? Not to mention the later success of various Mustangs in TransAm racing.
For some reason - the Chevy Camaro cathes my eye. Definatley styling cues from the 70's, but it looks up to date for todays world.
Sorry, I'll pass on the Challenger- suckers
Ron...
Ron
At a time when people are paying 6 figures at the auction for 70s sheetmetal, Dodge DEFINITELY got it right (as did Ford with the new stang) by offering a modernized classic car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'd lay odds that there isn't one single piece that is interchangeable between the 1970 Challenger and the 200? Challenger. Hell, I'll bet that not even a single third party sourced light bulb is the same.
BTW, as a separate bet... I'll bet that the "tool and dye sets" made for the 1970 vintage cars, Challenger included, have long since been scrapped.
Long live the Challenger! ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Please feel free to add/subtract/copy adjust this message
Question
1) Will the Challenger coupe be produced, when and where is it in the decision tree?
1.1 prototype approved, initial business case prepared
1.2 displayed in Detroit Jan 2006
1.3 rave reviews or in worse case alot of us like it
1.4 decision to cost production, supplier asked for quotes mar-apr 06?
1.5 business case updated? possible production location chosen
1.6 car is shown to public in LA area ... apparently car is still lusted for :shades:
1.7 go / no go DC management if decision before dec 06, then 2008 model (sept 07) or if earlier decision (jun 06) 2007.5 (jan 07) at best .
1.8 Based on 1st year will conv. get green light?
-------------------------------------------------
Specifications
these depend on the business model chosen.
Elite (Saleen, Corba, SVT, Roushe, ...)
very nice company ;-)
volume expected 15K units year max. ( not selling the 30K crossfire units) (and you thought PT cruisers were overpriced on Launch)
Base:
Engine:
500hp V8 Hemi 500+- change (392?")
Transmission:
std: 6 manual
op: 7 automatic (new version as torque is to high for MB 7)
Tires: front 19"-20" 235-265/50
rear 20:-22: 265-350
optional ? anything goes here
Suspension:
based on MB E-class
sport based on MB E-class AMG
Brakes:
front: 14" 4 piston
rear 12" 2 piston
Weight: dry 3000 lbs ... please 2800 is you can do i
Body and frame: LX... maybe early shortened LY?
Options:
sunroof ?
really expensive leather ;-)
GPS nav
7.1 sound
R race package for trans am :shades:
DR drag race package just for fun
RTS- add twin turbos, lightweight body from above
Case #2
Large production run (think mustang) 100-200K units year
Engine:
V6 3.5L 280hp
V8 Hemi 5.7L 345hp
SRT 6.1 Hemi 435hp
Transmission:
std: 5 automatic
op: 6 manual
Tires: front 17"-19" 215-245/50
rear 17:-20: 225-265
Suspension:
based on 300C
sport based on 300C SRT
Brakes:
front: 12" 2 piston
rear 10" 1 piston
Weight: dry 3300 lbs
Body and frame: LX
Options:
sunroof
nice leather
GPS nav
7.1 sound
------------------------------------
Thoughts on the possibilities?
Ron
I also heard that the Avenger will be coming back also, as a smaller version of the new Charger. This is also being kept hush hush. I guess Dodge doesn't want to sell cars.
Ron
Well, they have no problem putting down over 700 lb-ft with the 5-speed autos in the AMGs, so they could just use that unit.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Good.
All I was pointing out to another poster was that YES, there is some minor racing history associated with the Mustang. And Shelby had a few other minor successes back in the 60's.
But if you just want to go off on a diatribe about the recent Ford GT, hey, knock yourself out.... :confuse:
But doesn't the Caddy (i'm assuming you are referring to the CTS-V) also have the 6-speed and skip shift? oh... wait, no, the CTSV is just the standard vette engine. Which Caddy are you referring to?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
And the ONLY reason I brought up Shelby in the first place was because another poster was trying to point out the racing history of the old Chrysler 300 and then made a statement to the effect that the Mustang had NO racing history. Why in the heck you felt the need to morph that discussion into critcism of the current Ford GT I have NO idea.
Isn't this the '08 Dodge Challenger topic?
- While I don't have an issue with the "Gas Guzzler Tax" per-se, I do believe that it should either be applied across the board on ALL passengers vehicles that meet the criteria, or not at all. Case in point, when I got my 530i 5-Speed I considered a 540i 6-Speed, however, there was a GGT of something like $2,000 on that car, even though it was capable of 25 mpg on the highway. The flip side of course was that Excursions and other vehicles of that ilk, vehicles that are lucky to get half of the highway mileage of the 540i, had no GGT to contend with. Do it or don't, I don't care, just make it consistent.
Best Regards,
Shipo
The '06 CTS-V is rated at 15/23 mpg.
What mileage does it take to avoid the GGT? Does anyone know?
I believe its an average number they use, so even something that gets great highway mileage might be penalized if the city number is low enough.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Of course the whole issue of the GGT is something that rankles me to begin with. Personally I don't think it should exist at all, but since it does, then it should be uniformly applied to all passenger vehicles.
Best Regards,
Shipo
As the quickest way to improve handling, breaking, and acceleration is to loose weight :surprise:. I guess I will have to ask for more DC target than lotus
For the elite business case (15K units) 3500 lbs and mustang model 4000lbs.
I agree that the vette is the model for HP/weight in NA, though I will point out that the electronic options (gps/sounds around) are decreasing in weight/volume and most important power consumption. (except for subs, yes 1000W system is 1000W)
The trannies would be gears 1-5 play, 6 make distance, and the auto will be the same. Any chance of DC pulling something out of the lab for a tranny (CVT?, DSG?)?
I have not seen anything that advances the decision tree, so the only known is that they're mired in 1.7 :sick: and I do know from experience the direct chance of a project being cancelled is related to the length of the project, so start moving now :mad:
Decision tree
1.1 prototype approved, initial business case prepared
1.2 displayed in Detroit Jan 2006
1.3 rave reviews or in worse case alot of us like it
1.4 decision to cost production, supplier asked for quotes mar-apr 06?
1.5 business case updated? possible production location chosen
1.6 car is shown to public in LA area ... apparently car is still lusted for (I kinda read this 2 ways, 1 good management says lets build some hype, or 2 bad, designers screaming at management see they really do love it... hoping for 1
1.7 go / no go DC management if decision before dec 06, then 2008 model (sept 07) or if earlier decision (jun 06) 2007.5 (jan 07) at best .
1.8 Based on 1st year will conv. get green light?
-------------------------------------------------
This is from "Automotive News"
LATE NEWS
Challenger decision may come by Oct.
The Chrysler group may decide whether to make the Challenger muscle car as early as the end of the third quarter, CEO Tom LaSorda says. LaSorda on Friday, June 16, said Chrysler has been flooded with positive responses to the Challenger concept, shown at the Detroit auto show in January. story [SUB][$]
Decision time is October 2006
Did we guess the 2 possible business cases?
obtw
Ron I like a well balanced car, with safety first, great breaks, and good handling and reasonable horsepower. Current toy is a CLK 320, not sure what is next :confuse: Looking at CLK 550, but I can wait.
If this gets the go ahead it would make a very nice toy, how ever both the camaro, and saleen/SVT stang are very nice also.
They have a tough decesion, on which markets, how many 15K units high end 55k+ or 100K units mustang model 20K-55K?
Should be neat to see what they pick
And etc. and etc.
Uh, ron - I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't recall EVER posting ANYTHING about what options I wanted to see on the new Challenger, production #'s, or anything related to the Z06. :confuse:
I reacted the way I did because it seemed to be totally out of the blue that you started bringing up stuff on the Ford GT. But if you thought you were responding to something I had posted regarding the future Challenger and the Z06, I know understand the confusion.
WAY TO GO!
-Loren
Production:
Challenger Base: 53,337
Challenger T/A: 2,142
Challenger R/T Coupe: 12,747
Challenger R/T Convertible: 1,070
Challenger RT/SE Coupe: 3,679
Engines:
225 I6 145 bhp.
340 V8 275 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 340 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm.
T/A: 340+6 V8 290 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 345 lb-ft @ 3400 rpm.
383 V8 330 bhp.
426 Hemi V8 425 bhp @ 5000 rpm, 490 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm.
440 V8 375 bhp @ 4600 rpm, 480 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm.
440+6 V8 390 bhp @ 4600 rpm, 480 lb-ft @ 2300 rpm.
the car club link
If the car maintains a monster size, wider than a Lincoln Towncar, heavy and sucks lots of gas, while costing a fortune to buy, it will be a limited run car. Which if that is what Chrysler and it's fans want, that is fine too. Sort of a super sized replica car.
-Loren
Best Regards,
Shipo
Anyway, the point is the small engines, six cylinder ones included, made up a lot of sales. It was the last entry into the pony car class of cars. The Challenger could start with the 3.5 V6 250HP engine, which is plenty of power. Then add in a monster engine for the drag stripe and the bragging rights bunch.
-Loren