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Hyundai Sonata vs. Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry vs. Ford Fusion
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Comments
1999: 30,022
2000: 45,983
2001: 62,385
2002: 68,085
2003: 82,330
2004: 107,189
2005: 123,000 (estimated for December)
2006: 160,000 (my prediction)
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Through September 2005, almost 20,000 Sonata sales were to rental companies and other fleets. (October RL Polk data is not out yet.) For example, in the month of September, Sonata sales were 10,006 units, 8,150 were retail. That means that 18.5% of Sonata sales in the month of September were fleet units. Their share of the segment through September went from 5.1% to 5.5%, up 457 units year to date. I don't have the breakdown for November yet, I'm guessing the increase is mostly fleet related.
Not saying that they're not up, but not up as much without the fleet units.
Fact is, Sonata sales went from 30,000 in 1999 to 120,000+ in 2005. If you think that that is mainly due to fleet, then you're just in denial or extremely biased.
All cars in this segment (except the Accord) have significant fleet sales (between 10% and 20%).
But, looking at retail sales, and a modest increase, it looks like Civic (it's segment share is down YOY) may have lost a few to Sonata and Corolla is down a little, too. But, Camry and Accord, as well as Fusion (I know it's new) are all up.
Interestingly, the mid-size segment that the Fusion, Sonata, Accord and Camry reside in is down, while the small car segment, home of the Civic and Corolla is up this year.
There is no denial or bias in the numbers. FACT is, 22% of Sonata's go to fleet (19% for the month of September and 22% year to date.) The modest retail increase says that a few more people have bought them this year versus last year. And that's good for Hyundai. But retail sales, not total shows how well a car or truck is doing in the marketplace. As I said earlier, any manufacturer can dump a bunch of vehicles into fleet, but that's not how they make money and not the measure of how well a vehicle is doing with the real buying public.
Now, Hyundai may benefit from some of these fleet units, meaning, people who have never driven one will rent it, like it and buy it. Unfortunately, that hasn't worked very well with Ford and GM. The abundance of units negatively impacted residual values.
You posted something about it being due to fleet sales. You have not produced any data that shows that the percentage of Sonata fleet sales has gone up over the years.
If you're going to make an argument like that, back it up with data that shows that the percentage of Sonata fleet sales has increased in the past 6 years.
I'd like to know where you got the 19% figure for September. Not that I don't believe it, I'd like to know where that info can be found.
I've never met anyone in my life who decides to choose this car over that car because of sales figures or some kind of - however it is interpreted for whatever reason - statistical presentation ...
Having said that, I'm moving on after one more post.
RL Polk data shows registration data for the automobile industry.
FWIW Hyundai is the biggest threat Toyota sees.
Do you have a link?
I actually work in the automobile industry, so I get hard copies of their reports. I'll check to see if I can find a website somewhere.
There is no "one more post." "One more post" always leads to someone else's "one more post" which leads to another "one more post" and so on.
Please, let's try to talk about what we like and what we wish was different about the cars themselves.
Thank you.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
All the U.S. Sonatas have been assembled in the U.S. since October.
I think that this is the reason for the HUGE jump in sales. I sincerely doubt that fleet sales went from 2000 units to 8000 units in one month.
Hopefully the additonal sales for Hyundai will come from people trading in their trucks and SUV's for midsized autos. If the new kid on the block starts eating into other models then..
CamCords are prolly secure for now;
Altima needs to stay alert or Hyundai might show them their taillights;
Ford has enough loyal buyers of older T&S to fill the Herosillo plant for F&M for a while;
Sebring watch out!!
Malibu, who knows?
Sonata: dual-knob height adjuster on manual seat instead of lever; chrome metal door pulls vs. painted plastic; tuning control on steering wheel; telescopic wheel on all models; nicer-looking 16" alloys; 5-speed autotranny and 6-speed manual shifter available on the 4-cylinder.
Accord: lower prices; more compliant ride w/o losing good handling; standard ESC in all models; active front head restraints; nicer fabric; longer warranty; different front-end styling; dual-knob height adjuster on manual seat instead of lever; 6-speed stick available on 4-cylinder models.
Fusion: different grille (blackout, perhaps); nicer dash trim on base model; standard ABS and side bags/curtains (and ESC at least available if not standard); more thigh support on back seat; dual-knob height adjuster on manual driver's seat; better quality plastics in interior; tighter seams on body panels; longer warranty; metal door pulls inside instead of plastic; 6-speed stick available on 4-cylinder models.
Camry: really needs an all-new model... oh, wait... never mind.
So if I understand you correctly, what you are saying is, all Hyundai has to do is make more cars in the U.S., and they will sell more. That sounds easy!
2003: 201,240
2004: 235,889
2005: 252,000 (estimated for December)
Sonata sales don't seem to be coming at the expense of the Altima. And the 2007 Altima is a redesign, so the Alty should be okay.
The Sonata is not a specialty vehicle that might disappear in a year or two. It's in the very heart of the US auto market with what appears to be a viable contender and a killer price.
I mentioned above, Toyota is very, very aware of it.
The Camry debuts on Jan 9. I think its going to be pretty damn impressive, especially if its using the 269 horse 3.5L and 6sp Lexus transmission as rumours have stated. That would surprise me, but you never know. The 4 will be anywhere between 158 and 166 horses and will use an all new 5 speed auto. We'll see how that pans out in terms of acceleration and economy- the new car is said to be significantly more solid in structure and weight is said to have gone up as much as 175 lbs on some models- Im hoping thats not across the board.
It seems Bluetooth will be available on at least two of the four models (return of CE to displace 'Standard', mainstream LE, sportier SE, more luxurious XLE are expected). Side curtains (and side airbags) and 4 wheel disc ABS.... expected standard, not taking the Ford route.
5 speed manual continues in CE, SE 4. Trunk space up, handling/ride allegely improved all around (maybe less Aunt Jemima in the steering of the non-SEs? One can only hope..)
Again, all of this is educated specualtion based on everything I've read, but looks appealing. I have seen two different taillight designs, one I definitely prefer, so Im hoping for that one, and there has been one pic of a puke green color that I sincerely hope is not offered.
Good thing the Fusion is off to a good start.... :P
~alpha
I would be surprised about the 6 speed though, but only because the Avalon only has a 5 speed.
Yes, I have. Drove a Sonata LX. Liked it but wouldn't call it superior in every way. Actually gonna check out the Azera tomorrow. See if it has better seats etc.
Go visit the 07 Camry board, after that drink. Great looking package. Salud.
Dont know how or why, but why bother questioning- dude provided the first 07 left hand drive interior pics I've seen- of a Bluetooth, JBL 6 disc, cloth equipped Camry SE (V6). Jazzy but simple, big improvement over the current, IMO. Instrumentation looks like it will be damn pretty at night, as do the climate controls.
~alpha
I still remember when made in the USA meant something was a superior product, when people were proud of that label. Now Detroit is really on it's knees. What happens to the US with no Ford or GM? A scary thought IMHO.
current Hyundai Sonata. As I mentioned before,
my dog of a Chevy Celebrity was made in Canada.
What I didn't mention before was that the salesman
had a huge "Buy American" sign above his desk.
I found this quite ironic, when I opened the door
of my new Celebrity, and saw the Maple Leaf.
BTW, Ontario Canada is also in America.
My old man's Oldsmobile 98 and Cutlass had more problems than there is paper to write them all down. My 1994 Ford T-Bird was a nice car but its trannied died at 35,000, had a power steering problem, windpw broke etc (it was made in Canada).
If Americans made good cars people would buy them. In the old days we had no choice but to buy their over priced junk.
Let's try to stick to the topic ... thanks.
Many on the forum have tried and many have failed.
Japanese began to improve their quality and the American cars never did. If American cars began to improve and the Japanese cars didn't we would be looking at a totally different situation. I've gone out and purchased a Korean built car (Sonata) because they are more reliable and reasonably priced that is how the market works and should work. The US manufacturers may come back some day but they have alot to prove to us - since the way they treated their customers in the past.