All of these analogies and the like just confuse the main goal of the discussion. It doesn't matter what "should" be done in the marketplace. What "actually" happens is different. The dealers can charge whatever they want for the vehicle. The MSRP is just that -- the Manufacturer's "Suggested" Retail Price -- nothing more. If Joe dealership wanted to sell a new Camry for $100,000 he is free to do so (just put $30K MSRP + $70K dealer markup). It doesn't mean that somebody will buy it, but he can price it however he wishes to. And yes, unfortunately there are people in this world that due to their lack of education, status, etc. may not get as good a deal as somebody else. That is how the market works here. Somebody that can easily afford or pay outright for what they want is more likely to get a better deal than someone that can't. It is an almost "earned" right of passage for virtually any sport or industry. Those who have proven themselves financially are the ones that usually benefit. I'm not saying that this is equitable and I won't argue whether it is just or not. That is just how it is here. Heck, go travelling overseas to many 2nd and 3rd world countries and buying anything there means the seller is going to get up to 10 or 20 times the amount for an item that a local would. This type of practice is far more abusive almost anywhere else. Here in the U.S., the market pretty much takes care of itself as long as sellers don't collude with each other to artificially inflate prices. Supply and demand do have a say as well. But, I gotta side with the dealers about pricing. If somebody is willing to pay $20k for a vehicle that someone else only paid $18K for, there is nothing wrong with it. Just because the person that paid $18K may be better off, more educated, or whatever other reason doesn't mean that they are required to bargain collectively. There is enough information about vehicles and prices and prices paid all over these forums and the internet for anybody to get a decent price on a vehicle if they do their homework. The bigger issue seems that people that get more "emotionally" attached to the vehicle they want or that don't have many options for buying (either because of budget, credit, etc) are the ones that are likely to pay more. But detachment is a wonderful thing... it helps you walk away from a potential sale if the terms aren't going the way you want them to... nobody is chained to a salesperson's desk...
I have the same feelings. As long as no laws are broken by coersion, intimidation, misrepresentation, or deceipt, the dealer can ask whatever they want. We are all free to disagree with their price and simply walk away from the product. There is no law to say we have to buy and they have to sell, if any side believes their interest is not protected sufficiently. But we do not need to take care of the other party's interest - not our job. So yes - there are people who got ripped off if we apply "an average" or "lowest possible" price standards. I was one of them 8 years ago - so what, it was my fault for buying an overpriced POS without consulting anybody who knew the market better than I did. And also, there are dealers out there so desperate that they sold it below cost, for whatever reason and may go soon out of business. So what? If both sides agreed on each transaction freely (if not, it's a case for the DA), there can be no harm done to the willing.
It all comes up to who wants it more: if dealer wants to sell more, the price will likely be lower, if customer wants to buy more, the price will likely be higher - of course all within certain parameters, but that's the way it works.
Because it is a different situation. We are talking about one person who is "uneducated" paying more than everyone else not one person who manages to pay less for whatever reason. Therein lies the difference.
i don't think you are getting it...There is a price on the car that everyone can pay exactly the same as everyone else - and that's MSRP. If you choose to negotiate and haggle and try to get a better deal, so be it. however, walking in and paying the suggested price on the car is not immoral. if i walk in and haggle, because i've done my homework - its not fair that other people who did nothing should benefit from the deal i got, just because they are uneducated. if they want a good deal, they should work for it too.
Regarding the Buyota Benz example - if "everyone" who is buying the car at $18000 is buying it at that price because they negotiated, and the "uneducated" person buys it at $20,000 because they don't know better...who's fault is that? people want salespeople to just hand over their paychecks because they should be "moral".
nothing is handed to anyone on a silver platter, nor should it. do your work, get your deal. thats it. there's no excuse to be "uneducated" when 80,000 ex salespeople have written books on how to get a deal, and the information is all over the internet. being "uneducated" in this situation is basically just being lazy.
i don't think you are getting it...There is a price on the car that everyone can pay exactly the same as everyone else - and that's MSRP
No, it could be any price. It's up to a dealer to set it - or to be precise, the market would set a "balance" price under which dealer's gross and net would be acceptable. The dealers always say "one price means MSRP" - it's just not true. Every electronic retail store sets their own price and it rarely is list - same could be applied here.
how is msrp not the one price? its on every car across the region, and its the same. market price is different. sure, you can buy the car for less, but if you don't do your research, then you aren't educated, and you don't know any better.
i have often seen various retailers sell the same products at the same "MSRP", and then a sale would reduce the price (and often, most retailers have similar if not the same sales)
bottom line...there is a price on the car that is the same everywhere. if you choose to pay less, then you have to work for it - which requires that you educate yourself. thats pretty much it.
I am from the wide wild "west", (yes, the very west side of you, if you can figure out where) and know too much about pricing and haggle. Yes, at the beginning of market economy, there is no “price” for anything. If you want to buy and I would like to sell, let’s deal. For seasoned sales persons, they priced their products according to the buyers. Yes, they have the abilities to identify suckers, the “profile” thing. Like the “racial profile” thing, call it “buyer profile”, “economic profile”, whatever you like. If Bill Gates comes in for a Honda Accord, stick to the MSRP and add all the useless options. He has the money and probably doesn’t care. If you don’t know Bill Gates, you may look your buyer’s skin color, dress, accent, expression, etc. There is enough information for you to profile the buyer. From house, car, down to a bottle of water, sellers price merchants according to their “buyer profile”, in addition to fraud, that’s the reality at wide wild “west”, and many other places too.
What’s wrong with that? Maybe nothing, in terms of law and order. But it hinders the efficient of economy and hurts consumer sentiments. In the end, the manufactures and merchants will suffer, as the economy.
What a drag, if you have to haggle everything when you are in the market. It is not a problem for Bill Gates (maybe not), but for the rest of consumers, at least you will hesitate a little even if you don’t plan to haggle. Or you feel cheated, you don’t want to buy or postpone your purchase. Shopping around is one way of postponing consumption. Let’s say, if you would like to change your car in 4 years, adding 6 month of research and haggling, the real replacement cycle will be 4.5 years. Would it be better for the manufactures that the actual replacement cycle is shorter than as of now.
Thanks to competition in the market economy, we do not have to haggle anymore in purchasing a lot of things. And there is no economical reason for haggling in exchange of a lot of consumer products. With internet as the information lubricant for the market, the economy is much more efficient these days. Merchants cannot charge extra by assuming people don’t know. Manufactures cannot raise prices because they want to. Watch out for the competitions! It is great for the consumers, therefore even better for the manufactures in whole (leave out those anti-competition, non-market economy ones). Here goes the great economy.
Now, come back to the car pricing. It is a shameful business. Manufacturers and dealers work coherently to scam customers. First, it the MSRP, and then the invoice price, now we have the so-called internet quote. By these outrageous pricing, the car business rely on this pricing scam to support the inefficient manufacturers and budging dealer networks. On case-by-case basis, dealers may make shameful profit from so-called “un-educated” customers.
But as a whole, why would I buy now, if I can get one cheaper? Here is an example, 2007 Accord SE V6, MSRP 23K, Invoice 21K, Internet quote $20K, according to on-line posting, dealer will sell for 19.5K. Pick the price as you prefer. Given that there is no real solid price, I would hesitate to buy a car even if I would like to. Average consumers are price sensitive. It makes a difference in their consumption behaviors. That’s how Henry Ford made money by making cars cheaper. Without a solid referencing price, it hinders car consumptions. Now the Big Three is in trouble, can you say it is not because of pricing? Say Ford is less reliable, less reliable cars sell less; Ford is low quality, low quality cars sell less; Ford is low MPG, low MPG cars sell less. There is a relationship between price and products. You chose your products according to your price preference. But now, you cannot, because there is no price for car. Car price is a unknown, it depends on your haggling skills. Then how can I compare and shop. The in-efficiency in pricing hinders consumptions, therefore the economy. I will not be surprised if Ford goes bankrupt, or makes huge profits again like Henry Ford did hundred years ago, if it can wield the price sword well. :P :P :lemon: :P :P
Now, come back to the car pricing. It is a shameful business. Manufacturers and dealers work coherently to scam customers. First, it the MSRP, and then the invoice price, now we have the so-called internet quote. By these outrageous pricing, the car business rely on this pricing scam to support the inefficient manufacturers and budging dealer networks. On case-by-case basis, dealers may make shameful profit from so-called “un-educated” customers.
first off, there is no "scam" set up by the mfgrs in conjunction with the dealers...dealer buys the car at invoice, and the mfgr suggests a price at which they should sell it (like all other goods on the market, from gum to tvs to basketballs). after the mfgr "sells" the car to the dealer, its up to the dealer to decide how much they are willing to let the car go for. yes, there is holdback after the dealer sells the car on most makes - but that was put in place to help dealers pay for the floor planning (financing) of their vehicles. there is also the occasional mfgr to dealer incentives, to encourage dealers to sell a model in which there might be a large surplus of.
with regards to the "un-educated" customer...if i am a customer looking to buy the XYZ-mobile, and i've done my research, found out the rebates and incentives, and have come up with a fair price at which i would purchase the vehicle, and negotiated that price with the dealer, why should Joe Schmoe, who sat on his lazy butt all day get the same price as me, just because he's "un-educated"? if he wants a good deal, he needs to work for it too, just like i did. don't want to feel "ripped off"? then educate yourself...
it all comes back to people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions, and always looking to blame someone else (i.e. the big bad dealer) for their stupidity.
people forget that if they don't like the price, dealer, whatever, they can just...WALK AWAY!
-my two cents (i found some loose change in my couch last night)
I didn't mean MSRP is not one price - I meant it's not the ONLY one price possibility. There are many more - there can be MSRPP-$1, MSRP-$2, etc. - all of them could serve as "one price". That's all.
Well, I gotta say I don't agree with your assessment of dealerships at all. I am a consumer and I think that for the most part a dealership is a very difficult business to run. Despite great profits at some of the big dealerships in my area here, many are doing so running a pretty honest business. I have "foreign" vehicles now and have had "domestic" vehicles in the past, but your assessment of why the domestics are not doing well has little to do with the "integrity" of the dealerships. Fact is that a) there are too many domestic dealerships to begin with, and b) there is way too much excess plant capacity. Add to that a huge pension obligation, higher healthcare costs, and extreme pressure from both investers and the UAW, and you get a recipe for big losses. While vehicle quality on domestics still have the stigma of being less than their foreign rivals, it is getting better and better. Reliability and residual values will take time to re-establish in the consumer's mind, but again, this has more to do with manufacturing than a dealership. The dealerships do not make the vehicles and though there will always be dealerships with poor customer relations, service, or deceptive salespeople, the vast majority is quite the opposite. What bother's me about posts like this and others that want to attack dealerships is that people think that "success" equals dishonesty. Why? If someone is successful in selling technology or housing or virtually anything else, they are given a lot of praise and looked up to by society, but somehow dealerships are not. OK, maybe they can work harder at improving their image and perhaps trying to use advertisements that don't have tacky plots or a voice-over that yells everything at a 1000 words a second, but in practice that isn't what we buy. We buy the vehicle and hopefully we get it from a place where the experience is a good one and good service is provided. If that works out, it is a benefit for all involved. In the end many of the practices that have evolved at dealerships have been the direct result of abusive/sue-happy customers that try to take advantage of any given loop-hole or undocumented provision -- no matter how ridiculous it is. The rest of us have to deal with the consequences of those actions. In the end though, success for a dealership is measured more on how it treats its customers and whether it can continue to service their needs and retain them as customers in the future. Reputation counts for a lot more than it is made out to be -- I doubt there is a salesperson or dealer that would want to hear how badly they performed a service. Yet for all they do, very few people ever are grateful for the work that they do just because they are in the business of doing it. Well, their work allows us to travel freely to and from work and are almost completely responsible for helping the economy moving. In good times their prices may be higher then in bad times, but that is the nature of any business and no business would be profitable otherwise.
I couldn't agree with you more! People don't want to take responsibility for their own actions -- they actually believe that much of society wants to take the time and effort to make things more difficult for them. Most of the time, in truth, these people have dug their own holes... nobody has done that for them.
its very sad - because it fosters such a hatred for other people, and "groups" etc. people just need to realize that they really need to be mindful of what they do with their money, etc. but they dont. they expect someone else to do it for them.
those who can admit their mistakes are better off in the end, because they know what they need to do to fix them. the others, who blame someone else, will just be stuck in the same endless cycle of debt, bankruptcy, and unhappiness...
Shameful business?!? Who are you to judge?!? There is corruption and greed in any business, including any sales, retail or otherwise, poitics, law, even health and education. Everything is driven by greed, and everyone ttries to maximize the profit from every customer. Live with it. If different pricing confuses you - ride a bus. And this is exatcly what happens with uneducated people that refuse to learn: they come in knowing that they don't know what the price should be, feel stupid and hostile from the beginning, we give them the price, and they come up with some ridiculous demand, like instead of MSRP - $2k under MSRP OUT THE DOOR. We blow these people off, and they either ride the bus, or end up buying some overpriced POS from a high pressure dealership that simply bullies them into buying. So yes, stupidity is expensive.
I have a younger sister who works at a dealership and she says the biggest problem she deals with is this sense of entitlement people come in with. That they are entitled to get a new car at below cost, get thousands more for their POS then its actually worth and then get some freebies when all is said and done. Such is the 'Wal-martization' of the country. I've bought and leased a number of vehicles over the years. While I'm sure I could have complained and whined to knock prices down a few hundred bucks each time, I didn't want to be the one no one wanted to have to deal with each time I came in for service. I want a good deal, but I don't go home after buying something and beat my head against the wall if I read where someone got the same vehicle for less. It happens. Unfortunately, many people then feel like they've been screwed, perpetuating the stereotype that all dealerships are manned by crooks looking to rip you off. Yes, they are out there. But if people would be more informed and have a little more backbone, those people would go out of business and maybe buying a car wouldn't be such a stressful situation.
Oh yes, we're just so immoral and shameful, and we need to change our act now! :mad: :mad:
I think I will start off by selling every car at below cost (see how long a dealership will last then), and throwing in every gift and accessory imaginable.
I'll also start giving financial advice, and moral advice to everyone that walks in, including a "quick "investigation into their accounting to see if they are really in a position to buy any vehicle. If they should be riding the bus then I'll tell them so, and make them invest their money somewhere else, and kick them right out to the curb with a free bus pass home!
If they insist, then I'll make sure I'll open my books, invoices, and my wallet to them, and give up my commision too. After all I made thousands on the other guy, so I really don't need any more money this month.
Dang, I'll even call any other dealers and find a better price for you! That's what I'm here for! While I do that, take one of our cars home for a few weeks to see if you really like it!
I'll pay over book on your trade, and eat up negative equity. I'm sure I can hide it somewhere in the dealership's "profit centre". After all the past is the past, I want you to start fresh again. I know you think your car is in a minty condition, even though it could use some elbow grese, but I have some detailers that work for free and will make it shine like new again!
Undercoating? Warranty? Fabric protection? You don't need that! Headrests? Hubcaps? Spare tire? Wipers? Glove box? Naaah, those are just unnecessary items that we make a ton of money on, you don't need them either! What are you doing!! I told you already we made too much money on the other guys maaaan!
So here take all I've got, and don't forget to come back two weeks later so we can fix those scratches and dents that were supposedly on the car since new! Actually just come back and I'll give you another new car.
I gotta run, the Gucci belt I was wearing that I gave you was holding up my pantalones, and now they're falling down so I gotta get me another one!
Not the best of apologies simply because when it happens in the real world there is usually a very good reason for differences in salary. As an example at the tax place I am working at I am paid far more than others doing the same job even though they have been here years and this is my first year here. The reason being is that I have the credentials and expertise that they do not. For that reason my boss pays me more knowing that if he doesn't someone else will.
The analogy would be more in line with explaining the price difference between a Honda and an Acura.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i get it, boy do I get it. Its like this, I own a grocery store and soup sells for 75 cents. I try to charge $1.00 for it and everyone says, hey that soups only 75 cents so I charge them 75 cents. Then one guy doesn't say anything so I charge him $1.00. its ok its only his fault that he didn't know what the price really was. No difference in my book.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't let your superiors in on your car price strategy. They just might cut your pay down to what the other guys are making (since you're doing the same job)
As for the soup thingy, you'd have a soup price posted on the shelf, no? If it's $1 but you choose to sell it for less then that's your choice. But if a consumer chooses to pay you your full asking price then that's their choice.
If you look hard enough I bet you can find that same can of soup at store A for$.75 and store B for$.85.
Store A is in a run down part of town and is dirty and the cashiers don't give a damn that you are there. Store B is clean and neat, well lit and the employees seem to enjoy seeing you shop there. Are the owners of store B bad people?
BTW, if you "own" the store and you try to charge $1.00 you really should change your shelf lable... :shades:
They are all bad guys, out to get us. I say limit the profit per car to $5,000. No haggle, no bargin, no nothing. In fact if you step foot on a dealer lot you have to buy a car. Simple, easy.
Sheesh, this has got to be the stupidest forum yet. Sorry to all you salespeople who actually read and have to deal with this. I suppose it must not be all bad though, or you would all find a new line of work.
They just might cut your pay down to what the other guys are making (since you're doing the same job)
Ah while we are doing the same job they don't have the credentials and the expertise. Those things mean a lot. Again it like why there is a price difference between a Chevy and a Lexus.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
agreeing that what is wrong, different prices? uh...no. Sellers can ask what ever they want and buyers can offer what ever they want. The transaction will only occur when both match.
Prices move up and down, sometimes very fast. Places where prices don't move, or god forbid are fixed tend to have other solutions, e.g. the "black market" - I am sure we don't want that here.
Since you cannot figure the value to you of an item why don't you just run all your purchases by this board for approval. We will decide if something it worth it to you, but you have to abide by our decision. In fact we should get controll of your bank account and credit cards just to make sure you don't make any mistakes or heaven forbid get taken advantage of. Hell, we can even make Sanke the treasurer just to be safe.
Sounds kind of silly don't you think? IF you like a car and have the money buy it. If you don't don't!!!!
Sheesh, this has got to be the stupidest forum yet. Sorry to all you salespeople who actually read and have to deal with this. I suppose it must not be all bad though, or you would all find a new line of work.
I think the folks in the biz are getting a good laugh out of this.
Snake, you're a one of a kind.....
And just to keep things on topic, I think dealers and sales persons should be allowed to make as much money as they possibly can, as long as there isn't anything illegal, dis-honest, or outright deceptive. The person they just sold a vehicle to at MSRP plus allows me to get a great deal on the same vehicle.
You know, if certain people spent half the time doing their homework (i.e. research) on vehicles, vehicle specs, reviews, prices, etc. that they do posting here complaining about not wanting to have to do it, they wouldn't be in the situation that they are afraid of getting into in the first place. Ironically I think those complaining about not getting a "fair" price here on the forums are ones that probably didn't. Anyhow, the fact that you bought a vehicle means that it was a fair price. Nobody is "forcing" you to buy. Volunteering to buy a vehicle and then complaining that the price was too high just sounds like sour apples to me. Unless you had some kind of horrendous problems with it, there is no reason to complain. Even so, there are lemon laws, and it is not the fault of the dealership (unless of course those "horrendous" problems involved service -- then you can just go to another dealer or auto shop). Dealerships do not BUILD the vehicles and more information about pricing, etc is posted on vehicles than in almost any industry. Do you get a breakdown of invoice costs for a hospital visit? Do you get invoice pricing from Best Buy? Do you even get any kind of accountability from the government for the taxes you pay? Heck, even utilities don't give you "their" cost -- and that is something that you HAVE to pay. Just put a little effort into doing some research and this whole debate goes away. My feeling is that those that really have a complaint in this manner are ones that are too lazy to talk about it here (hence the problem), and the ones that are talking about it here are just showing everyone that they in fact CAN do their own work and avoid the situation. So, who is loosing out? Nobody. Go ahead and get the best deal you can and be a happy customer like the rest of us!
i give up. you own a grocery store that sells soup for .75 and you charge a dollar, even if your price on the shelf says .75? what kind of analogy is that? people who get good deals NEGOTIATE them...those who don't are lazy and didn't do their homework. they don't deserve the "good deal" just because someone else worked for it...don't like it? tough cookies. the MSRP is the retail suggested price, and its the same everywhere. sure, people buy for less, but why would a salesperson just cut their profits to someone who's "uneducated"...whose fault is it that they decided NOT to do any research to BECOME educated?!
its like you are trying to place every single ounce of blame on the dealership/salesperson...
you must be one of those people who can never take responsibility for their own actions - because you just want to blame the dealership/salesperson for trying to make a living. dont like it? don't buy a car from a dealer. im sure they won't miss you
I get a hot stock tip and buy stock in ABW (automatic butt wiper) for $.50 a share. I tell my buddy about it, I don't tell him how or where I bought it, so he waits three days goes through the Brokerage house of Dewycheatumandhow, with there fees and commisions it nets out he pays $1.25 a share. He comes to me and says hey how did you get it so cheap? I say, well as soon as I got the tip I did a little research and called a brokerage firm of alwaysagoodeal and associates. So he calls back the his Broker Bob megagabucks Malone and says hey you owe me $$, my buddy bought the same stock in ABW and payed less. Old Bob replies Ya right.
I've read many posts by SNAKE and have concluded he/she is a person who mainly deals in theory and ideals. Everyone else debating him/her is trying to use real life examples and ideas. Ol' Snake isn't much interested in that stuff as he/she can't connect the dots between their theory and your reality.
Most of Snake's examples are purely theoretical, like the cost of soup discussion, or some of the other statements made in the other thread. He/she is trying to get you to change your reality to meet his theory or fantasy, since he/she can't do it. You are never going to get folks like them to "see the light" because they won't acknowledge it. Why? Because they cannot acknowledge something that does not exist in their world.
This psychoanalytic profile brought to you by your friendly neighborhood BretFraz, who says, "Rock On with your bad self!!"
Oh yes, we're just so immoral and shameful, and we need to change our act now!
So here take all ....
Exactly where in Canada are you located? A couple times I've remotely thought of going out of state to buy a car but the way you deal I'm willing to leave the country.
I gotta run, the Gucci belt I was wearing that I gave you was holding up my pantalones, and now they're falling down ...
You have to fix this by the time I get there. I don't care to see this, regardless of the deal.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Ok I have given the title of this thread much thought. And here is the Answer.
$882.42 above dealer invoice. If I was still in sales and I could sell 15 units a month at an $882.42 average, based on my stores pay plan I could live a comfortable life style.
So do we all agree? Can I alert the media? Edmunds, you may want to sell your domain name before this catches on. becuase when it does you are going to lose allot of traffic.
Well, I'll give you a real life story here that kind of ticks me off. Just under three weeks ago I go to look at some vans. I find, through the Honda certified pre-owned site a 2004 Ody EX with DVD. $20, 168. I go look. They've got a price tag of over $25K on it. I show them the thing from the site and they say it's their error and they'll honor it. Ok..... I get them to knock off a very high doc fee, though they just moved teh numbers around - subtracting the fee from the price of the van.
I go home with the van and just for the heck of it look up similar vans in autotrader.com There is my actual van - same VIN number - for $19,800. I go to the dealership's web site and sure enough - $19, 800 plus a free $150 gas card.
That is three different prices (four if you count the gas card) offered for teh same vehicle at the same dealership.
I've made my displeasure known but am not holding my breath.
Not surprisingly I still lack the piece of paper that says it is a certified vehicle that corporate Honda says I should have and all the "we owe" items have not come. They were promised first on delivery (they get it from another vehicle) then when I called two weeks ago "within the week." I'm still waiting. I'm betting there will be an attempted fee here. The car is in for warranty work today (some inspection when it needs basic work). We'll see what happens.
OK - I got carries away but the multiple advertised prices burn my butt. I'll be happy to tell Honda that the most expensive advertised way to buy the vehicle is from their web site.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Not trying to make excuses for them, but maybe the listed prices were lower to look competitive in an advertised space where other similar vehicles are priced accordingly. The difference of $368 plus the $150 gas card could just be that they didn't update the more expensive price or that different people posted the vehicle on different sites. As for the high price at the dealership, that may have been used to make you think you got a good price when you walked in with the advertisement. Somebody that didn't do the work to research would have seen that higher price first and may have not gotten as good a deal on the purchase. Still, it is annoying to say the least. But again, it just shows the benefits of doing research. I hope you're happy with your purchase overall.
And... let's leave the personal comments out of it, K? Opinions about other members' abilities & personalities have naught to do with dealer profit.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Overall it's fine. The thing with posting multiple prices leaves a bad taste in my mouth fir that dealer but such is life.
The killer was I;d done a fair bit of research but didn't think to price the van against itself in different places! Next time I will. I learn something every time I go through this lovely experience they call buying a car.
I am actually much more bothered by the lack of detail on the ore-certification and the missing items. That doesn't speak well for the, When I checked back (again, I missed a detail) they'd had this van three months - plenty of time to catch all of those silly things.
It's those little things that bother me but I'm mostly just venting.
Being told to research cuts me to the quick. And I have a very tender quick.... Years ago I'd have been bargaining off the price of the van. I need a second career in car sales.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Overall it's fine. The thing with posting multiple prices leaves a bad taste in my mouth fir that dealer but such is life.
The killer was I;d done a fair bit of research but didn't think to price the van against itself in different places! Next time I will. I learn something every time I go through this lovely experience they call buying a car.
I am actually much more bothered by the lack of detail on the pre-certification and the missing items. That doesn't speak well for the, When I checked back (again, I missed a detail) they'd had this van three months - plenty of time to catch all of those silly things.
It's those little things that bother me but I'm mostly just venting.
Being told to research cuts me to the quick. And I have a very tender quick.... Years ago I'd have been bargaining off the price of the van. I need a second career in car sales.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
The thing is that no matter how much homework you do, you are dealing with someone who knows much more about the whole process than you do. You buy one car every couple of years on average and get whatever info you can find on the internet. They sell several cars a week, are trained on how to sell, and have another person just to handle the financing side.
It's not a simple purchase. It has so many variables that it overwhelms even the sharpest buyer. You have the car price, the financing, and the trade in value. Even if you get your own financing and sell your old beater yourself, there's still all the dealer added crap, dealer incentives you may not know about, fees, etc.
Add to that that you may go in one day and pay one price and two days later the manufacterer puts a $1500 cash back incentive. There's also a laundry list of scams dealers can pull. Heck a dealer could make $0 on a new car and trade in, but clear thousands in dealer options, incentives, extended warranties, etc.
I'm not saying that dealers shouldn't make money or are all dishonest, or that a little research won't go a long way. I am saying that car buying is intimidating for even the best of us. So what's a good deal on a new car? One that you walk away happy from, whether you paid MSRP or $1000 under invoice.
Oh, back to where I was.... That last post I thought had been eaten when the browser crashed. No, you just got the version that wasn't spell checked.
Just heard from the service department on the warranty stiff. The one slider would not completely close - they ordered a part. It needed an alignment. This didn't come up in the inspection? Fortunately after they said that was a possibility and wouldn't be covered under warranty and I said "WHAT??!!???" they decided they would cover it. They had to pull the cover on the steering when to clean contacts on the right side so the horn would work wherever you hit it. Silly stuff but stuff they should have picked up. While they won't do battle with what sales promised they are ordering a set of knobs for the radio. By the end of a week maybe I'll have TWO sets of controls for the radio! :P
It's a nice van but the overall experience reminded me of a few things to keep track of.
Hmmm - maybe I should keep the loaner Pilot! I'll bet they'd be a lot quicker on that one!
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
"So what's a good deal on a new car? One that you walk away happy from, whether you paid MSRP or $1000 under invoice."
Absolutely correct.
The way I look at this transaction is the dealer has had a lot of opportunities to make me a happy camper at very little experience and the sales department is taking the attitude of "we already have our commission. Next!" This is foolish on their part. I buy Hondas. This is my fifth. I do not have a dealer in my neighborhood that I like. He had an opportunity to show me he was better than the next guy and didn't take it. I think that's a mistake. It costs them loyalty.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Hate to change the subject from all that weird business about the 'immorality' of car dealers :confuse: but I have a question for the dealership guys out there: What is your opinion of the rise of 'one single price' type dealerships?
I now use them exclusively because I always seem to get a fair price (I guess I should rephrase that to final price, or agreed price or CSRP ((Customer Suggested Retail Price)) :P .
This seems to take all the dis-agreement out of the experience with the caveat of the trade-in part.
I'm just interested whether you guys and gals consider this the wave of the future or a blip on the screen?
BTW I'm in the grocery business and the whole can of soup thing is just ridiculous. You don't negotiate .10c for a can of soup because the incentive to negotiate is so slight. You negotiate a car because the incentive to negotiate is high. FYI, you can negotiate just about anything you want, furniture, houses etc. In low price line retail it just isn't worth the investment of your time
Comments
And people wonder why there are grinders out there!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
And yes, unfortunately there are people in this world that due to their lack of education, status, etc. may not get as good a deal as somebody else. That is how the market works here. Somebody that can easily afford or pay outright for what they want is more likely to get a better deal than someone that can't. It is an almost "earned" right of passage for virtually any sport or industry. Those who have proven themselves financially are the ones that usually benefit. I'm not saying that this is equitable and I won't argue whether it is just or not. That is just how it is here. Heck, go travelling overseas to many 2nd and 3rd world countries and buying anything there means the seller is going to get up to 10 or 20 times the amount for an item that a local would. This type of practice is far more abusive almost anywhere else.
Here in the U.S., the market pretty much takes care of itself as long as sellers don't collude with each other to artificially inflate prices. Supply and demand do have a say as well.
But, I gotta side with the dealers about pricing. If somebody is willing to pay $20k for a vehicle that someone else only paid $18K for, there is nothing wrong with it. Just because the person that paid $18K may be better off, more educated, or whatever other reason doesn't mean that they are required to bargain collectively. There is enough information about vehicles and prices and prices paid all over these forums and the internet for anybody to get a decent price on a vehicle if they do their homework.
The bigger issue seems that people that get more "emotionally" attached to the vehicle they want or that don't have many options for buying (either because of budget, credit, etc) are the ones that are likely to pay more. But detachment is a wonderful thing... it helps you walk away from a potential sale if the terms aren't going the way you want them to... nobody is chained to a salesperson's desk...
It all comes up to who wants it more: if dealer wants to sell more, the price will likely be lower, if customer wants to buy more, the price will likely be higher - of course all within certain parameters, but that's the way it works.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
i don't think you are getting it...There is a price on the car that everyone can pay exactly the same as everyone else - and that's MSRP. If you choose to negotiate and haggle and try to get a better deal, so be it. however, walking in and paying the suggested price on the car is not immoral. if i walk in and haggle, because i've done my homework - its not fair that other people who did nothing should benefit from the deal i got, just because they are uneducated. if they want a good deal, they should work for it too.
Regarding the Buyota Benz example - if "everyone" who is buying the car at $18000 is buying it at that price because they negotiated, and the "uneducated" person buys it at $20,000 because they don't know better...who's fault is that? people want salespeople to just hand over their paychecks because they should be "moral".
nothing is handed to anyone on a silver platter, nor should it. do your work, get your deal. thats it. there's no excuse to be "uneducated" when 80,000 ex salespeople have written books on how to get a deal, and the information is all over the internet. being "uneducated" in this situation is basically just being lazy.
-thene
What is the old Mathias statement from a couple of years ago, "It sure expensive to be stupid."
No, it could be any price. It's up to a dealer to set it - or to be precise, the market would set a "balance" price under which dealer's gross and net would be acceptable. The dealers always say "one price means MSRP" - it's just not true. Every electronic retail store sets their own price and it rarely is list - same could be applied here.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
But, stupid sure doesn't help..
I wish Mathias would come back..
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Edmunds Moderator
i have often seen various retailers sell the same products at the same "MSRP", and then a sale would reduce the price (and often, most retailers have similar if not the same sales)
bottom line...there is a price on the car that is the same everywhere. if you choose to pay less, then you have to work for it - which requires that you educate yourself. thats pretty much it.
-thene
I am from the wide wild "west", (yes, the very west side of you, if you can figure out where) and know too much about pricing and haggle. Yes, at the beginning of market economy, there is no “price” for anything. If you want to buy and I would like to sell, let’s deal. For seasoned sales persons, they priced their products according to the buyers. Yes, they have the abilities to identify suckers, the “profile” thing. Like the “racial profile” thing, call it “buyer profile”, “economic profile”, whatever you like. If Bill Gates comes in for a Honda Accord, stick to the MSRP and add all the useless options. He has the money and probably doesn’t care. If you don’t know Bill Gates, you may look your buyer’s skin color, dress, accent, expression, etc. There is enough information for you to profile the buyer. From house, car, down to a bottle of water, sellers price merchants according to their “buyer profile”, in addition to fraud, that’s the reality at wide wild “west”, and many other places too.
What’s wrong with that? Maybe nothing, in terms of law and order. But it hinders the efficient of economy and hurts consumer sentiments. In the end, the manufactures and merchants will suffer, as the economy.
What a drag, if you have to haggle everything when you are in the market. It is not a problem for Bill Gates (maybe not), but for the rest of consumers, at least you will hesitate a little even if you don’t plan to haggle. Or you feel cheated, you don’t want to buy or postpone your purchase. Shopping around is one way of postponing consumption. Let’s say, if you would like to change your car in 4 years, adding 6 month of research and haggling, the real replacement cycle will be 4.5 years. Would it be better for the manufactures that the actual replacement cycle is shorter than as of now.
Thanks to competition in the market economy, we do not have to haggle anymore in purchasing a lot of things. And there is no economical reason for haggling in exchange of a lot of consumer products. With internet as the information lubricant for the market, the economy is much more efficient these days. Merchants cannot charge extra by assuming people don’t know. Manufactures cannot raise prices because they want to. Watch out for the competitions! It is great for the consumers, therefore even better for the manufactures in whole (leave out those anti-competition, non-market economy ones). Here goes the great economy.
Now, come back to the car pricing. It is a shameful business. Manufacturers and dealers work coherently to scam customers. First, it the MSRP, and then the invoice price, now we have the so-called internet quote. By these outrageous pricing, the car business rely on this pricing scam to support the inefficient manufacturers and budging dealer networks. On case-by-case basis, dealers may make shameful profit from so-called “un-educated” customers.
But as a whole, why would I buy now, if I can get one cheaper? Here is an example, 2007 Accord SE V6, MSRP 23K, Invoice 21K, Internet quote $20K, according to on-line posting, dealer will sell for 19.5K. Pick the price as you prefer. Given that there is no real solid price, I would hesitate to buy a car even if I would like to. Average consumers are price sensitive. It makes a difference in their consumption behaviors. That’s how Henry Ford made money by making cars cheaper. Without a solid referencing price, it hinders car consumptions. Now the Big Three is in trouble, can you say it is not because of pricing? Say Ford is less reliable, less reliable cars sell less; Ford is low quality, low quality cars sell less; Ford is low MPG, low MPG cars sell less. There is a relationship between price and products. You chose your products according to your price preference. But now, you cannot, because there is no price for car. Car price is a unknown, it depends on your haggling skills. Then how can I compare and shop. The in-efficiency in pricing hinders consumptions, therefore the economy. I will not be surprised if Ford goes bankrupt, or makes huge profits again like Henry Ford did hundred years ago, if it can wield the price sword well.
:P :P :lemon: :P :P
first off, there is no "scam" set up by the mfgrs in conjunction with the dealers...dealer buys the car at invoice, and the mfgr suggests a price at which they should sell it (like all other goods on the market, from gum to tvs to basketballs). after the mfgr "sells" the car to the dealer, its up to the dealer to decide how much they are willing to let the car go for. yes, there is holdback after the dealer sells the car on most makes - but that was put in place to help dealers pay for the floor planning (financing) of their vehicles. there is also the occasional mfgr to dealer incentives, to encourage dealers to sell a model in which there might be a large surplus of.
with regards to the "un-educated" customer...if i am a customer looking to buy the XYZ-mobile, and i've done my research, found out the rebates and incentives, and have come up with a fair price at which i would purchase the vehicle, and negotiated that price with the dealer, why should Joe Schmoe, who sat on his lazy butt all day get the same price as me, just because he's "un-educated"? if he wants a good deal, he needs to work for it too, just like i did. don't want to feel "ripped off"? then educate yourself...
it all comes back to people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions, and always looking to blame someone else (i.e. the big bad dealer) for their stupidity.
people forget that if they don't like the price, dealer, whatever, they can just...WALK AWAY!
-my two cents (i found some loose change in my couch last night)
thene :sick:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I have "foreign" vehicles now and have had "domestic" vehicles in the past, but your assessment of why the domestics are not doing well has little to do with the "integrity" of the dealerships. Fact is that a) there are too many domestic dealerships to begin with, and b) there is way too much excess plant capacity.
Add to that a huge pension obligation, higher healthcare costs, and extreme pressure from both investers and the UAW, and you get a recipe for big losses. While vehicle quality on domestics still have the stigma of being less than their foreign rivals, it is getting better and better. Reliability and residual values will take time to re-establish in the consumer's mind, but again, this has more to do with manufacturing than a dealership.
The dealerships do not make the vehicles and though there will always be dealerships with poor customer relations, service, or deceptive salespeople, the vast majority is quite the opposite.
What bother's me about posts like this and others that want to attack dealerships is that people think that "success" equals dishonesty. Why? If someone is successful in selling technology or housing or virtually anything else, they are given a lot of praise and looked up to by society, but somehow dealerships are not. OK, maybe they can work harder at improving their image and perhaps trying to use advertisements that don't have tacky plots or a voice-over that yells everything at a 1000 words a second, but in practice that isn't what we buy. We buy the vehicle and hopefully we get it from a place where the experience is a good one and good service is provided. If that works out, it is a benefit for all involved.
In the end many of the practices that have evolved at dealerships have been the direct result of abusive/sue-happy customers that try to take advantage of any given loop-hole or undocumented provision -- no matter how ridiculous it is. The rest of us have to deal with the consequences of those actions. In the end though, success for a dealership is measured more on how it treats its customers and whether it can continue to service their needs and retain them as customers in the future. Reputation counts for a lot more than it is made out to be -- I doubt there is a salesperson or dealer that would want to hear how badly they performed a service. Yet for all they do, very few people ever are grateful for the work that they do just because they are in the business of doing it. Well, their work allows us to travel freely to and from work and are almost completely responsible for helping the economy moving. In good times their prices may be higher then in bad times, but that is the nature of any business and no business would be profitable otherwise.
those who can admit their mistakes are better off in the end, because they know what they need to do to fix them. the others, who blame someone else, will just be stuck in the same endless cycle of debt, bankruptcy, and unhappiness...
like isell always says..."life is too short"
-thene
And this is exatcly what happens with uneducated people that refuse to learn: they come in knowing that they don't know what the price should be, feel stupid and hostile from the beginning, we give them the price, and they come up with some ridiculous demand, like instead of MSRP - $2k under MSRP OUT THE DOOR. We blow these people off, and they either ride the bus, or end up buying some overpriced POS from a high pressure dealership that simply bullies them into buying.
So yes, stupidity is expensive.
-thene :P
I think I will start off by selling every car at below cost (see how long a dealership will last then), and throwing in every gift and accessory imaginable.
I'll also start giving financial advice, and moral advice to everyone that walks in, including a "quick "investigation into their accounting to see if they are really in a position to buy any vehicle. If they should be riding the bus then I'll tell them so, and make them invest their money somewhere else, and kick them right out to the curb with a free bus pass home!
If they insist, then I'll make sure I'll open my books, invoices, and my wallet to them, and give up my commision too. After all I made thousands on the other guy, so I really don't need any more money this month.
Dang, I'll even call any other dealers and find a better price for you! That's what I'm here for! While I do that, take one of our cars home for a few weeks to see if you really like it!
I'll pay over book on your trade, and eat up negative equity. I'm sure I can hide it somewhere in the dealership's "profit centre". After all the past is the past, I want you to start fresh again.
Undercoating? Warranty? Fabric protection? You don't need that! Headrests? Hubcaps? Spare tire? Wipers? Glove box? Naaah, those are just unnecessary items that we make a ton of money on, you don't need them either! What are you doing!! I told you already we made too much money on the other guys maaaan!
So here take all I've got, and don't forget to come back two weeks later so we can fix those scratches and dents that were supposedly on the car since new! Actually just come back and I'll give you another new car.
I gotta run, the Gucci belt I was wearing that I gave you was holding up my pantalones, and now they're falling down so I gotta get me another one!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The analogy would be more in line with explaining the price difference between a Honda and an Acura.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
i get it, boy do I get it. Its like this, I own a grocery store and soup sells for 75 cents. I try to charge $1.00 for it and everyone says, hey that soups only 75 cents so I charge them 75 cents. Then one guy doesn't say anything so I charge him $1.00. its ok its only his fault that he didn't know what the price really was. No difference in my book.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Because MSRP means Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. The real price is whats on the sales contract.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Don't let your superiors in on your car price strategy. They just might cut your pay down to what the other guys are making (since you're doing the same job)
As for the soup thingy, you'd have a soup price posted on the shelf, no? If it's $1 but you choose to sell it for less then that's your choice. But if a consumer chooses to pay you your full asking price then that's their choice.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
If you look hard enough I bet you can find that same can of soup at store A for$.75 and store B for$.85.
Store A is in a run down part of town and is dirty and the cashiers don't give a damn that you are there. Store B is clean and neat, well lit and the employees seem to enjoy seeing you shop there. Are the owners of store B bad people?
BTW, if you "own" the store and you try to charge $1.00 you really should change your shelf lable... :shades:
Sheesh, this has got to be the stupidest forum yet. Sorry to all you salespeople who actually read and have to deal with this. I suppose it must not be all bad though, or you would all find a new line of work.
Ah while we are doing the same job they don't have the credentials and the expertise. Those things mean a lot. Again it like why there is a price difference between a Chevy and a Lexus.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Prices move up and down, sometimes very fast. Places where prices don't move, or god forbid are fixed tend to have other solutions, e.g. the "black market" - I am sure we don't want that here.
Since you cannot figure the value to you of an item why don't you just run all your purchases by this board for approval. We will decide if something it worth it to you, but you have to abide by our decision. In fact we should get controll of your bank account and credit cards just to make sure you don't make any mistakes or heaven forbid get taken advantage of. Hell, we can even make Sanke the treasurer just to be safe.
Sounds kind of silly don't you think? IF you like a car and have the money buy it. If you don't don't!!!!
:shades:
I think the folks in the biz are getting a good laugh out of this.
Snake, you're a one of a kind.....
And just to keep things on topic, I think dealers and sales persons should be allowed to make as much money as they possibly can, as long as there isn't anything illegal, dis-honest, or outright deceptive. The person they just sold a vehicle to at MSRP plus allows me to get a great deal on the same vehicle.
Yup.
Dealers negotiate to see how much a customer will pay.
Customers negotiate or shop around to see how little a dealer will charge.
It seems fair to me.
Just put a little effort into doing some research and this whole debate goes away. My feeling is that those that really have a complaint in this manner are ones that are too lazy to talk about it here (hence the problem), and the ones that are talking about it here are just showing everyone that they in fact CAN do their own work and avoid the situation. So, who is loosing out? Nobody. Go ahead and get the best deal you can and be a happy customer like the rest of us!
-thene
its like you are trying to place every single ounce of blame on the dealership/salesperson...
you must be one of those people who can never take responsibility for their own actions - because you just want to blame the dealership/salesperson for trying to make a living. dont like it? don't buy a car from a dealer. im sure they won't miss you
-thene
Most of Snake's examples are purely theoretical, like the cost of soup discussion, or some of the other statements made in the other thread. He/she is trying to get you to change your reality to meet his theory or fantasy, since he/she can't do it. You are never going to get folks like them to "see the light" because they won't acknowledge it. Why? Because they cannot acknowledge something that does not exist in their world.
This psychoanalytic profile brought to you by your friendly neighborhood BretFraz, who says, "Rock On with your bad self!!"
So here take all ....
Exactly where in Canada are you located? A couple times I've remotely thought of going out of state to buy a car but the way you deal I'm willing to leave the country.
I gotta run, the Gucci belt I was wearing that I gave you was holding up my pantalones, and now they're falling down ...
You have to fix this by the time I get there. I don't care to see this, regardless of the deal.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
$882.42 above dealer invoice. If I was still in sales and I could sell 15 units a month at an $882.42 average, based on my stores pay plan I could live a comfortable life style.
So do we all agree? Can I alert the media? Edmunds, you may want to sell your domain name before this catches on. becuase when it does you are going to lose allot of traffic.
Well, I'll give you a real life story here that kind of ticks me off. Just under three weeks ago I go to look at some vans. I find, through the Honda certified pre-owned site a 2004 Ody EX with DVD. $20, 168. I go look. They've got a price tag of over $25K on it. I show them the thing from the site and they say it's their error and they'll honor it. Ok..... I get them to knock off a very high doc fee, though they just moved teh numbers around - subtracting the fee from the price of the van.
I go home with the van and just for the heck of it look up similar vans in autotrader.com There is my actual van - same VIN number - for $19,800. I go to the dealership's web site and sure enough - $19, 800 plus a free $150 gas card.
That is three different prices (four if you count the gas card) offered for teh same vehicle at the same dealership.
I've made my displeasure known but am not holding my breath.
Not surprisingly I still lack the piece of paper that says it is a certified vehicle that corporate Honda says I should have and all the "we owe" items have not come. They were promised first on delivery (they get it from another vehicle) then when I called two weeks ago "within the week." I'm still waiting. I'm betting there will be an attempted fee here. The car is in for warranty work today (some inspection when it needs basic work). We'll see what happens.
OK - I got carries away but the multiple advertised prices burn my butt. I'll be happy to tell Honda that the most expensive advertised way to buy the vehicle is from their web site.
I think we should leave psychoanalysis to the professionals.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
As for the high price at the dealership, that may have been used to make you think you got a good price when you walked in with the advertisement. Somebody that didn't do the work to research would have seen that higher price first and may have not gotten as good a deal on the purchase. Still, it is annoying to say the least. But again, it just shows the benefits of doing research. I hope you're happy with your purchase overall.
let's leave the personal comments out of it, K? Opinions about other members' abilities & personalities have naught to do with dealer profit.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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The killer was I;d done a fair bit of research but didn't think to price the van against itself in different places! Next time I will. I learn something every time I go through this lovely experience they call buying a car.
I am actually much more bothered by the lack of detail on the ore-certification and the missing items. That doesn't speak well for the, When I checked back (again, I missed a detail) they'd had this van three months - plenty of time to catch all of those silly things.
It's those little things that bother me but I'm mostly just venting.
Being told to research cuts me to the quick. And I have a very tender quick.... Years ago I'd have been bargaining off the price of the van. I need a second career in car sales.
The killer was I;d done a fair bit of research but didn't think to price the van against itself in different places! Next time I will. I learn something every time I go through this lovely experience they call buying a car.
I am actually much more bothered by the lack of detail on the pre-certification and the missing items. That doesn't speak well for the, When I checked back (again, I missed a detail) they'd had this van three months - plenty of time to catch all of those silly things.
It's those little things that bother me but I'm mostly just venting.
Being told to research cuts me to the quick. And I have a very tender quick.... Years ago I'd have been bargaining off the price of the van. I need a second career in car sales.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
It's not a simple purchase. It has so many variables that it overwhelms even the sharpest buyer. You have the car price, the financing, and the trade in value. Even if you get your own financing and sell your old beater yourself, there's still all the dealer added crap, dealer incentives you may not know about, fees, etc.
Add to that that you may go in one day and pay one price and two days later the manufacterer puts a $1500 cash back incentive. There's also a laundry list of scams dealers can pull. Heck a dealer could make $0 on a new car and trade in, but clear thousands in dealer options, incentives, extended warranties, etc.
I'm not saying that dealers shouldn't make money or are all dishonest, or that a little research won't go a long way. I am saying that car buying is intimidating for even the best of us. So what's a good deal on a new car? One that you walk away happy from, whether you paid MSRP or $1000 under invoice.
Oh, back to where I was.... That last post I thought had been eaten when the browser crashed. No, you just got the version that wasn't spell checked.
Just heard from the service department on the warranty stiff. The one slider would not completely close - they ordered a part. It needed an alignment. This didn't come up in the inspection? Fortunately after they said that was a possibility and wouldn't be covered under warranty and I said "WHAT??!!???" they decided they would cover it. They had to pull the cover on the steering when to clean contacts on the right side so the horn would work wherever you hit it. Silly stuff but stuff they should have picked up. While they won't do battle with what sales promised they are ordering a set of knobs for the radio. By the end of a week maybe I'll have TWO sets of controls for the radio! :P
It's a nice van but the overall experience reminded me of a few things to keep track of.
Hmmm - maybe I should keep the loaner Pilot! I'll bet they'd be a lot quicker on that one!
Absolutely correct.
The way I look at this transaction is the dealer has had a lot of opportunities to make me a happy camper at very little experience and the sales department is taking the attitude of "we already have our commission. Next!" This is foolish on their part. I buy Hondas. This is my fifth. I do not have a dealer in my neighborhood that I like. He had an opportunity to show me he was better than the next guy and didn't take it. I think that's a mistake. It costs them loyalty.
What is your opinion of the rise of 'one single price' type dealerships?
I now use them exclusively because I always seem to get a fair price (I guess I should rephrase that to final price, or agreed price or CSRP ((Customer Suggested Retail Price)) :P .
This seems to take all the dis-agreement out of the experience with the caveat of the trade-in part.
I'm just interested whether you guys and gals consider this the wave of the future or a blip on the screen?
BTW I'm in the grocery business and the whole can of soup thing is just ridiculous. You don't negotiate .10c for a can of soup because the incentive to negotiate is so slight. You negotiate a car because the incentive to negotiate is high. FYI, you can negotiate just about anything you want, furniture, houses etc. In low price line retail it just isn't worth the investment of your time