you and quad obviously know a lot more about these engines than I do. My point still is that the 5.3L gets about the same or better gas mileage, has more torque and horsepower, and is most likely cheaper to fix. I'm at a loss cause I haven't driven the Tundra V-8, but I'm sure (as I've heard) that it is powerful and smooth. I would have to agree with quad though - it does seem to me that there would be more maintenance with a "higher tech" engine. Old reliable is still strong. I agree with you KISS on trucks, but Toy seems to have went the other way - maybe they will be ultra reliable and if so your in good shape, but I personally would stick to a big 3 motor (old reliable) for heavier duty applications. Toyota doesn't make a 3/4 or 1 ton, but even still a 1/2 ton which is worked I don't think I'd take a chance. The typical yuppie like myself would probably be ok - and btw we have a 90 Ford 1 ton 460 that has 291,000 miles on it that has nothing more than tune up/minor maintenance done. Still runs strong which leads me to believe that you can run 180,000 miles as you stated before - and I'm sure you know Toyota that have, but I'd be curious to know how many 4 cam, 4 valve, high tech engines that have run that distance (and have been worked)without major overhauls. Probably not too many cause it is so new. Happy trucking...
291,000 miles - been worked to death hauling 5500#'s on a flat bed most of its life. Dang thing still runs like a champ (except that I crunched the front end hitting a school bus). Selling for 500$ - I'm not a Ford loyalist - or any other loyalist for that matter, but this truck has done a helluva job...
Every one is talking about how complex the Toyota V-8 is. Well ford is using a Sohc V-8 it is to complex and was never designed for Fords trucks or the Mustang for that matter. Ford killed the 5.0 V-8 to save money. What they have done is design a junk truck with a sorry drivetrain. The replace the best ford trucks ever built the 92-96 F-Series. I had a 93 F-150 i will have to admit it was a great truck, but when ford killed off the 5.0 it made me mad that was a much better truck motor then the 4.6-5.4 will ever be. Yes the 4.6-5.4 make more power but they have more internal engine problems. Because they were only designed for Lincoln Town Cars.
You obviously know very little about engines. You think owning motorcycles makes you an expert. What a joke! By the way - how is that lemonado of yours doing? It is a shame about those WEAK brakes.
Now you're talking about buying another lemonado - the duramax. Haven't you learned about first year GM vehicles? Didn't think so.
DOHC engines have bores in the cylinder head in which buckets over the valves travel. There is only one direction these buckets can travel - up and down. Tell me again how you can put a side load on the valve guides.
You forgot to mention knocking. The first two years of Chevy engines had mismachined crankshafts causing knocking on cold start. The ones that don't knock cold knock on anything but premium gas. You should know about this topic.
Chevy owner's manual - "But don't worry if you hear a little pinging noise when you're accelerating or driving up a hill. That's normal" They wrote this in the manual so they don't have to fix the problem. (CYA)
I realize intelligent dialogue is not your forte, witness your many mistakes in arithmetic, size, percentages etc. Nevertheless, I consider your personal attacks the cry for help they are, and work you through this.
If you have threaded adjusters, you DON'T have buckets, just spring keepers. The adjuster screw pushes on the valve stem.
If you DO have buckets, you DON'T have threaded adjusters which means you DO have shims. Whether they are located under the bucket or over...they are pain in the [non-permissible content removed]. If they are over the bucket, they can get SPIT out...very ugly for you. If they are under the bucket, you have to pull the cams to adjust them. I'll bet you $20 to a nickel, Toymota uses threaded adjusters and NO buckets. 4.7L Toymotas don't develop much oil pressure either, a bad thing for your top end investment.
The good news is you can have your rotors and drums turned at the same time they do the tune up. Be in and out for less than $1 grand if it only needs fronts.
"Two things kept us from calling the Silverado a perfect tow vehicle: It was not bulletproof during its stay, and the brake pedal felt mushy, not firm the way you'd like it when towing a heavy load."
Uh, Oh! Wimpy brakes.
"Skidpad grip increased from 0.70 g to 0.73 g, but braking had worsened, stopping at the end of the test from 70 mph in 226 feet, 19 more feet than it required at the outset. The brakes were the least impressive feature of the Silverado--they produced heavy fade and would emit a spooky gasp when the test driver hit the brake pedal."
Uh, Oh! The wimpy brakes got worse!
"Brakes have the typical awful, spongy pedal that feels like one out of a 1978 Chevrolet Caprice Classic."
bama has decided to post three quotes from a long term test on ONE truck. talk about your sample size being rather small. i wonder if he has a POINT that he would like to make about this one, single truck?
we can, and have, pointed out that tundra's brakes are NOT bulletproof, in and of themselves, and yet, all some folks will do to contend this is to site TWO examples (one being a long-term test and one being their own vehicle). hmmm, interesting.
i can only assume that readers are expected to draw a conclusion based on either one or two vehicles of a certain line. that's pretty silly. perhaps next presidential election, we'll take one or two voters from each state and allow them to decide the fate of the electoral votes for their state? recounts would be much easier anyways...
re: #64 thanks for that info. i'm not much of a "wrench-head" myself...just basic maintenance stuff. but it's good to see info like that which you posted. that's why i come here...to learn more about my truck. interesting that three responses were posted by the person your post was directed to and not a one was in response to your post. just misdirections and subject changes.
I'm not saying anyone here is right, but I drew the same conclusions when I test drove a 99 Silverado a year ago last August. The brakes were very spongy and required what I considered excessive effort to stop. As a comparison, the brakes on my 99 Ram 1500 Quad 4x4 that I ended up buying are excellent. I haven't had any problems (yet) with the rear adjusters.
Am I saying the brakes on all 99 Ram 1500 Quads are excellent? NO. I drove a 01 GMC Sierra a few weeks ago and the brakes were much better than the 99 Silverado.
Quad's post verified that he had the info wrong in two of three instances. I posted that bucket over shim valves (which the Tundra has) do not have side loading on the guides. This is true. Now - you can argue about screw adjuster implementations - which STILL have less side loading - but since the Tundra does not have these - it is a moot point.
His contention that it is possible for shims to come loose is ludicrous. I guess it IS possible, but then it is also possible for my truck to be struck by a meteor. I am not losing any sleep over it.
The engine in the Tundra has been proven for 9 years in the Toyota Landcruiser - a vehicle with a bulletproof record for reliability. The 2000 J.D. Powers award for most dependable full size pickup went to the '96 T100. The Chevy engine was new in '99 and it shows it.
And don't give me that lame excuse about Chevy owners being the only one that "work" their trucks. Only Libby is naive enough to believe this.
Let Quad come back when he knows what he is talking about - then I will respond.
fair 'nuff. is it fair to say that you feel the brakes on the 'rado are weak based off of one magazine's report on one truck? because, frankly, the edmunds comparison that was done showed that the silverado stopped only 12 feet (i think...would have to check...) or so longer than the tundra from 60 mph.
"I guess it IS possible, but then it is also possible for my truck to be struck by a meteor."
Actually, I just saw an amazing report on the news two nights ago (I think, time runs together sometimes) of a guy whose car was hit by a meteor! He walked out in the morning to find a golf ball sized hole smashed in the lower edge of his windshield, a hole burned entirely through the dash and another burned through the floor. Even strange and unusual things do happen occasionally.... ;-)
By the Editors at Edmunds.com from the sierra long term road test.
"This truck represents everything that is right about GM," our technical editor boldly proclaimed after spending the last 30 days in our brute-force GMC Sierra. "The powertrain is nothing short of astounding."
No factory hitch means no factory haul in them ones. That factory has the knowin of this. Some of them dealers wont even add em a hitch too them limited ones now. Course they still shine the same for them yuppies now. Chase that shine yuppie! Good luck on this one now!
Them forien ones be disposable. There aint no such thing as no classic forien one cuz they all rotted out and gone now! Where is all them hi-lux ones, and them datsuns and such? All used up. Them tundras be goin the way of them t100 ones for sure. Facts is facts on this one. Good luck on this one now!
Aint heard no tells on folks workin them limited ones yet. Why this be? Could that lack of haul have somethin too do with this? Sure is a mystery. Aint no one workin them limited ones now? What say too this one now? Good luck on this one now!
Poker is not a game you should play when you wear your emotions on your sleeve.
If you have threaded adjusters, you also have rocker arms. That's right buddy! The overhead cam lobe pushes down on a pad surface on a pivoting rocker arm. On the other end of the pivoting arm is the screw type adjuster, which presses on the valve stem. Since the rocker arm sweeps an angle, whallaa...side loading on valve guides just like pushrod designs.
In a bucket design, no side loads but the cure is worse than the disease since SHIMS are the only way to adjust the clearance between the cam lobe and the valve. Clearance too little, valve won't shut fully. Burns the valve. Clearance too much, shim won't stay in the pocket on top of the bucket, gets spit out...very ugly. So ugly, they sometimes put the shim underneath the bucket, where it can't spit. To change the shim, camshafts MUST be removed to get under the bucket. I don't believe you know what's under the Toymota valve cover. Go ask your coach and report back.
Until then, many things go wrong with shims, often for the simplest of reasons, like the dealer doesn't have the ones you need in stock, so he puts in what he DOES have. The shims that go in may be out of someone else's problem truck. Warehouse engineering! The procedure is to measure the valve clearance, go to the table, read across the row, take the number off the existing shim, read down the column to get the new shim number. Sometimes the numbers on the shim are worn, hard to read. Then they have to be mic'd. If the mechanic is no better with numbers than BAMA, this can be another problem. Or the camshaft isn't in exactly the right timed position when the measurement is taken. With 32 of them, there's more possibility of fraud than a Florida court room!
Which brings us back full circle. Bama, you said you believe in the KISS principle. After working on overhead cams, shims under bucket, over bucket, threaded adjusters etc., KISS is a concept I fully endorse. The BEST example of it is found in the GM small block V8. Its hydraulic lifters NEVER need adjusting. And it performs better too.
Dodgeram7 is by no means your average dodge owner. He doesn't appear to be your average anything. And I won't knock the ford or chevy engines. I've owned 5 dodge trucks (including vans) since '76 and can't recollect any engine problems on any of them except one alternator. The engines have old technology but they don't break down.
Didn't Honda come up with a hydraulic system for some of their OHC bikes??? I owned nothing but KZ's :650-750 and a 900 Ninja so the shim under bucket is well known. I think Suzuki came up with a rocker set up with screw type adjusters for easier valve adjustment.
My Cobra uses a rocker that is acted on from the top and the lash of the rocker is taken up by a hydraulic type lifter at one end. No adjustment required. I'm assuming the SOHC is the same. Haven't been in one or seen a drawing/blueprint of one.
So much for that yuppie engine now, eh bama? Sounds like them ones goin break quicker than them pee-wee pumpkins doin that haul for sure! Yep, that shine just got a little duller with them truths on that fancy-pants engine of them limited ones. Maybe that be why ya cant be gettin no factory hitch on them ones now. Good luck on this one now!
Where is them ones with the knowin gone: rubluetoo, trucksrme, that Franklin and dave40 too. Them folks had the knowin on them trucks for sure. Some say that factory gave em the boot. What say, did that forien factory have somethin too do with shuttin them folks down now? Them folks sure knew them trucks for sure. Good luck on this one now!
but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it usually is a duck - get it? I doubt somebody is trying to "pose" as rube - people like that are just stupid (Mr. Hull comes to mind)...
Comments
Not millimeters. Maybe you should go back to school and learn that mls = miles
mm= millimeters
Ryan
...and "mL" being millileters...
guess you're both wrong?
(ryan gets partial credit for stating mm = millimeters though)
bco
mi = miles
This is from my statics book
I always say mls = miles its just missing the vowels
Ryan
he didn't say Millimeters.....
- Tim
What's this I hear - the Isuzu duramax has 4 valves per cylinder? It has aluminum cylinder heads? It is a japanese engine? WIMPY!
Those duramaxes will be dropping like flies just like Chevy's first year abomination the Silverado.
Now you're talking about buying another lemonado - the duramax. Haven't you learned about first year GM vehicles? Didn't think so.
DOHC engines have bores in the cylinder head in which buckets over the valves travel. There is only one direction these buckets can travel - up and down. Tell me again how you can put a side load on the valve guides.
You forgot to mention knocking. The first two years of Chevy engines had mismachined crankshafts causing knocking on cold start. The ones that don't knock cold knock on anything but premium gas. You should know about this topic.
Chevy owner's manual - "But don't worry if you hear a little pinging noise when you're accelerating or driving up a hill. That's normal"
They wrote this in the manual so they don't have to fix the problem. (CYA)
If you have threaded adjusters, you DON'T have buckets, just spring keepers. The adjuster screw pushes on the valve stem.
If you DO have buckets, you DON'T have threaded adjusters which means you DO have shims. Whether they are located under the bucket or over...they are pain in the [non-permissible content removed]. If they are over the bucket, they can get SPIT out...very ugly for you. If they are under the bucket, you have to pull the cams to adjust them. I'll bet you $20 to a nickel, Toymota uses threaded adjusters and NO buckets. 4.7L Toymotas don't develop much oil pressure either, a bad thing for your top end investment.
The good news is you can have your rotors and drums turned at the same time they do the tune up. Be in and out for less than $1 grand if it only needs fronts.
ended on the wrong side of the grassy knoll."
I worry about you.
GM Forecasts 4-7 Percent Drop in November Vehicle Sales
November 21, 2000
Page 1 of 1
General Motors said that it expects its U.S. vehicle sales for November to fall 4 to 7 percent, Reuters reports.
Car sales for the world's largest automaker are forecast to fall 5 to 8 percent, while truck sales will drop 2 to 5 percent, GM said.
"Two things kept us from calling the Silverado a perfect tow vehicle: It was not bulletproof during its stay, and the brake pedal felt mushy, not firm the way you'd like it when towing a heavy load."
Uh, Oh! Wimpy brakes.
"Skidpad grip increased from 0.70 g to 0.73 g, but braking had worsened, stopping at the end of the test from 70 mph in 226 feet, 19 more feet than it required at the outset. The brakes were the least impressive feature of the Silverado--they produced heavy fade and would emit a spooky gasp when the test driver hit the brake pedal."
Uh, Oh! The wimpy brakes got worse!
"Brakes have the typical awful, spongy pedal that feels like one out of a 1978 Chevrolet Caprice Classic."
Uh,Oh!
Wimpy brakes?
All i can say is the brakes on my truck saved my life a few months back. Personal proof that they actually do work.
Bama you are truely an amazing piece of work. How many times are you gonna quote that car and driver article. Do you have it on speed paste???
Ryan
bama has decided to post three quotes from a long term test on ONE truck. talk about your sample size being rather small. i wonder if he has a POINT that he would like to make about this one, single truck?
we can, and have, pointed out that tundra's brakes are NOT bulletproof, in and of themselves, and yet, all some folks will do to contend this is to site TWO examples (one being a long-term test and one being their own vehicle). hmmm, interesting.
i can only assume that readers are expected to draw a conclusion based on either one or two vehicles of a certain line. that's pretty silly. perhaps next presidential election, we'll take one or two voters from each state and allow them to decide the fate of the electoral votes for their state? recounts would be much easier anyways...
bco
thanks for that info. i'm not much of a "wrench-head" myself...just basic maintenance stuff. but it's good to see info like that which you posted. that's why i come here...to learn more about my truck. interesting that three responses were posted by the person your post was directed to and not a one was in response to your post. just misdirections and subject changes.
bco
Am I saying the brakes on all 99 Ram 1500 Quads are excellent? NO. I drove a 01 GMC Sierra a few weeks ago and the brakes were much better than the 99 Silverado.
His contention that it is possible for shims to come loose is ludicrous. I guess it IS possible, but then it is also possible for my truck to be struck by a meteor. I am not losing any sleep over it.
The engine in the Tundra has been proven for 9 years in the Toyota Landcruiser - a vehicle with a bulletproof record for reliability. The 2000 J.D. Powers award for most dependable full size pickup went to the '96 T100. The Chevy engine was new in '99 and it shows it.
And don't give me that lame excuse about Chevy owners being the only one that "work" their trucks. Only Libby is naive enough to believe this.
Let Quad come back when he knows what he is talking about - then I will respond.
How can a dodge owner possibly rip on another vehicle's engine or drivetrain? someone explain this to me.
bco
dodgeram7...next time you post, find something truthful!
Actually, I just saw an amazing report on the news two nights ago (I think, time runs together sometimes) of a guy whose car was hit by a meteor! He walked out in the morning to find a golf ball sized hole smashed in the lower edge of his windshield, a hole burned entirely through the dash and another burned through the floor. Even strange and unusual things do happen occasionally.... ;-)
"This truck represents everything that is right about GM," our technical editor boldly proclaimed after spending the last 30 days in our brute-force GMC Sierra. "The powertrain is nothing short of astounding."
I guess there are a few people who like it.
Ryan
You ARE the MAN!
If you have threaded adjusters, you also have rocker arms. That's right buddy! The overhead cam lobe pushes down on a pad surface on a pivoting rocker arm. On the other end of the pivoting arm is the screw type adjuster, which presses on the valve stem. Since the rocker arm sweeps an angle, whallaa...side loading on valve guides just like pushrod designs.
In a bucket design, no side loads but the cure is worse than the disease since SHIMS are the only way to adjust the clearance between the cam lobe and the valve. Clearance too little, valve won't shut fully. Burns the valve. Clearance too much, shim won't stay in the pocket on top of the bucket, gets spit out...very ugly. So ugly, they sometimes put the shim underneath the bucket, where it can't spit. To change the shim, camshafts MUST be removed to get under the bucket. I don't believe you know what's under the Toymota valve cover. Go ask your coach and report back.
Until then, many things go wrong with shims, often for the simplest of reasons, like the dealer doesn't have the ones you need in stock, so he puts in what he DOES have. The shims that go in may be out of someone else's problem truck. Warehouse engineering! The procedure is to measure the valve clearance, go to the table, read across the row, take the number off the existing shim, read down the column to get the new shim number. Sometimes the numbers on the shim are worn, hard to read. Then they have to be mic'd. If the mechanic is no better with numbers than BAMA, this can be another problem. Or the camshaft isn't in exactly the right timed position when the measurement is taken. With 32 of them, there's more possibility of fraud than a Florida court room!
Which brings us back full circle. Bama, you said you believe in the KISS principle. After working on overhead cams, shims under bucket, over bucket, threaded adjusters etc., KISS is a concept I fully endorse. The BEST example of it is found in the GM small block V8. Its hydraulic lifters NEVER need adjusting. And it performs better too.
Good luck on this one now!
My Cobra uses a rocker that is acted on from the top and the lash of the rocker is taken up by a hydraulic type lifter at one end. No adjustment required. I'm assuming the SOHC is the same. Haven't been in one or seen a drawing/blueprint of one.
Bama, how does the Toy set up work?
bco
- Tim
http://townhall.edmunds.com/cgi-bin/townhall/vprofile?user=justtheone
53 silverados
6 tundras
Ryan