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Comments
You said,"Instead of critiquing every link we post that shows the Tacoma is the best stock 4x4 money can buy, why don't you just POST YOUR OWN LINKS SHOWING HOW THE RANGER BEAT THE TACOMA?"
Dude, I really don't care if the Ranger beat the Tacoma or visa versa as I own neither. My point being that your source of info was tainted. I can't help it if you don't like me pointing that out. Please take the time to review such things as people will notice the "fine" print.
Scorpio-
That's a good one...creative to boot...give ya an A for that one. Question is...do you really believe that?
Uhm, you did say ABS stops you faster. Remember your saying they pump 30 times a second, possible for maybe superman but not us mortals?
Well, I can't give you the post # for that one because it was in the Toyota vs. Big 3 thread that was discontinued, thanks to you.
pluto, its so obvious when you wont comment on something that you can't. im glad you saw the logic in my theory why your truck won the pickup truck of the year. what about this year? its even better, but it didn't even get second. whats up? is the ram that good? oh, but all they could say about the F150 was how good it was, but it only mustered 4th. even with the most powerful engine, they still ranked it back in the pack (they said they could not find a negative thing about it but dogged both toyotas- but look whose ad is on the back cover though). its all politics my man. check it out if you dont believe (the new four wheeler). it dogged your trd's suspension. but in '98 it was unstoppable? getting the picture yet? probably not.
Pluto--->Hmm seems everyone is to blame but you. I wonder how you are so perfect.
The Big Question: What are you trying to accomplish here on Edmunds? You must check the boards at least 5 times a day, and I can only under-estimate the number of forums your subscribing too. But are you trying to convice any Ranger(Domestic) fans to switch? Are you trying to convice yourself that the Tacoma(Toyota) is that much more superior? It's one thing to participate in friendly rivalry, it's another to be that mental chigger that picks everything apart to miniscule, and redundant detail. All this effort, and for what result? Everyone still believes pretty much the same thing...
About the big 3 forum. From the host's last warning to killing the forum, 3 people posted. I'll give anyone 1 guess who the last user to post there before the Host killed the forum.
I wonder about government employees. Is this what they do all day?
I was making a general comment that reflected my personal opinion. And yes, I do think that making trucks with 6-CD changers, remote entries (so that you don't have to perform the hard labor of inserting a key into the lock, gosh no) is rather pointless, they are trucks, not luxury sedans.
But again, as I said, companies have to stay competitive to stay in business and maintain their market share, which is why everybody is offering those yuppie things in one way or another. Ford is doing the same thing with the 0% financing, because GM decided to play rough with everyone.
Tbunder, if you think you are not paying for all those things, you are in for a surprise. You are paying for them. You are paying for them when you buy the truck. Nothing is ever free in business. Without the ABS and a 6-CD changer your Ranger would be $600 cheaper, but you are paying for it, because Ford thinks you need those things. See my earlier posts about AC: you can't have a Ford without it, even if you don't want it. The solution proposed: you buy the AC, you pay for it, just don't use it. It's wasted money.
Lets see...what else..oh yes.
4 doors: Yeah, thats a big saver. Seeing how it is nearly impossible for people to ride in the back of an xtracab truck (not just Toyota) anyway, lets at least make it easy for them to get in. Is that the idea? I had no problem sticking a grill guard into the back seats on my Tacoma, when I bought it, and I only have 2 doors.
foot-activated parking brake: Exactly why is this important? Every sports car, and a large number of sedans have a hand-operated brake, it's right there by the shift. Are they all missing out on the wonders of foot-operated brake?
O/D override button? Is that Overdrive override? Isn't switching your truck into 1 going to accomplish that? I don't know, but from driving an automatic before this, I think it does the same thing. Whats the point of that button?
-underpowered?? how can you possibly 'dis the power of the 4.0 inline 6? tons of low end torque. especially on a vehicle as light as the wrangler.
-overpriced?? of course. but so is everything.
I don't think Ford is twisting many arms by making Air Conditioning standard...
Take a survey. Ask everyone who has A/C in their vehicle, and if so, ask if they ever use it. This is one even Pluto will probably agree on.
The 4 doors, nicked named Doggie Doors by a user earlier in this forum, are convienent enough. Good if you're going backpacking or camping, fishing etc, and need some place to stow gear. Just open the door after you get the front door open, toss in your stuff, and then close the door. Then you can hop in and drive where you wanna go. A little easier than wrestling your gear over the seat, or having to always tilt the seat back forward. Especially handy when someone already in the passenger seat.
#2954 of 2962 So now are by plutonious Dec 01, 2001 (11:20 am)
you going to say Yoda's link was tainted too? Or are you going to have to accept his link "straight from the horse's mouth" and acknowledge the Tacoma is the better truck?
Uhm, you did say ABS stops you faster. Remember your saying they pump 30 times a second, possible for maybe superman but not us mortals?
Well, I can't give you the post # for that one because it was in the Toyota vs. Big 3 thread that was discontinued, thanks to you.
You are so full of it dude....were you formerly Toddstock? LMAO!! Yeah that's it....a troll in trolls clothing. It was Toddstock's post that caused PF to shut the topic down....AND ABS was never discussed there......ewwwwwwwwww!! Busted...
Perhaps one of the hosts could check the IP address of your posts Pluto...course you could always change that...but it would be interesting now wouldn't it. Ya want the link to the Tundra vs. Big Three....here it is for ya.....dood!!
pocahontas "Toyota Tundra vs the Big 3 (Part VI)" Sep 10, 2001 7:05am
Pluto also goes by many names. This is definately not the first account he's had with edmunds. Problem is anyone with an e-mail address can set up an account, and thanks to hotmail, yahoo, and any other "free" e-mail, it's very easy to make up multiple accounts...
Update: Ranger receives 4-5 stars to Tacoma's 3-4 stars... http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Cars/2002Pkup.html
Does this sound familiar to you Ford guys? Discrediting ANY LINK WHATSOEVER IF IT DISAGREES WITH YOU?
You know, the stupidity of this debate and you guys is starting to reach an all-time low.
Pluto>"You know, the stupidity of this debate and you guys is starting to reach an all-time low." well thanks bud..???
also, the link that you are now discrediting is a FEDERAL GOV'T. ORGANIZATION/AGENCY, basically YOU. you do work for the govt. dont you? at least i think you claimed you did once.
sorry pluto, but it looks like you've been had on this debate as well. there's no hiding it now, your cave has been found my man. maybe your cowboy hat will fit better now, since your head is probably starting to shrink a little bit. hehe. guess scorpio was wrong when he said mexicans mostly drive ford rangers, huh? lmfao
but as always, you're very entertaining pluto.
If your going forward and clear a rock with the front, you should clear the rear.
While I like the placement of the Tacoma rear shocks, there is no issue with me on the placement of the Ranger shocks.
Regardless of what vehicle you have, if your traveling in 3 ft weeds with a vehicle that has 10 inches clearance, your asking for trouble. Only an idiot would drive blindly thru 3 ft weeds without a person walking the area. Plus, driving in 3 ft weeks, when dry, with a very hot catalitic converter under the vehicle is not the smartest thing to do.
In regard to Texans, well, that is a different subject.
In regards to your calling me an idiot because of the way I drive: I've been doing it for years, have never had a problem, and I doubt you go four-wheeling in Mexico often and are familiar with how things are done. FYI, when a new house/neighborhood is constructed in Mexico, it is done without the assistance of the City or State clearing and building roads many times. If you live in a place like Mexico long enough, it's inevitable you're going to drive off the trails, especially if you enjoy hunting. You need to get your foot out of your mouth and apologize to Texans who drive off the trails all the time. How do you think all those trails on Texas ranch-land were originally created? By people never driving off of cleared dirt/caliche roads? While I respect the concept of "Tread Lightly" many people don't or can't for legitimate reasons. Again, how do you think the term "Texas Pinstriping" was coined? By driving through the brush. Hey wait, I thought you said IN AMERICA, WE HAVE THIS THING CALLED "TREAD LIGHTLY." Isn't Texas in America? Why don't you go preach to the Texans about their idiot driving and disrespect for the environment and see what their reaction is?
BTW, I am aware of the fire-hazard a hot catalytic converter is. That's why if I can't find a clearing to park in, I back up my truck to the side and position the middle of my truck over the smashed weeds my tires created. This isn't rocket science, you know.
Tbunder, yes, as a matter of fact, I do work for a government agency. I'm not ashamed to admit government agencies are the most political and dysfunctional operations around, and your taking everything they may say as gospel proved how naive you are. I couldn't care less what the NHTSA says about safety, especially when the tests conducted by insurance agencies completely contradict the NHTSA's findings. Remember natureboy1's links showing how the Big 3 trucks folded like pancakes in their tests, while the Tundra's cabin remained intact?
obyone, you have selective amnesia, especially regarding ABS brakes. In one of the postings, I stated somebody who has the art of threshold braking down could possibly stop a non-ABS car quicker than an ABS car. You then said that was impossible because ABS can pump brakes 30 times a second, and said I could only do that if I was superman. THEN multiple links were provided to show you how ABS actually stops slower on gravel and snow, and that ABS hasn't reduced the number of vehicle accidents. Since you have the patience, time and desire of finding these old postings, why don't you go ahead and post them to try and prove yourself right?
For the past month or so, the only thing happening here is the Ford boys discrediting the mountain of information clearly showing how the Tacoma is the better truck.
So Ford boys, why don't you just post your own links saying the Ranger is better than the Tacoma?
Have fun with this one now!
cpousnr
I totally agree with you, especially on the idiot part....
Being a big die-hard Chevy fan, and being anti-Toyota, this ought to interest you:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smpickup.htm
Compare Tacoma to S-10, click on the details, see which truck was rated overall the best...
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_lgpickup.htm
Compare Tundra to everything else, click on the details, see which truck was overall the best...
Oh no, more untruths, lies, and fabricated stories, obyone...what are you going to do?
Let me guess - discredit the links, right?
Just curious, it seems like you should be preaching to the world about the F-150's ATROCIOUS ratings instead of the Tacoma's...now why won't you do that? I'd rather be in a compact Tacoma than a full-size F-150 in a wreck, LOL!!!
"Your problem is that in your world, whatever you don't like is branded an untruth, or a lie, or a fabricated story."
But I've seen you do the exact same thing..
You discredit the NHSTA ratings claiming that they are biased.
You challenged someone else to find a publication that claimed the Ranger was better than the Tacoma.. After waiting a few days, I am suprized that they didn't respond to this because about only publication that rated Tacoma higher was four-wheeler mag.
Consumersearch.com summarizes reviews from many different publications.. (sort of a summary review by consolidating many other reviews).
http://www.consumersearch.com/www/automotive/pickup_trucks/fullstory.html
The Ranger received top-rank in 3 of the reviews, while Tacoma was only top-ranked in one.
I don't mean to assume the role of obyone here, but your link is pretty inconclusive. All it said about the Tacoma is that it was well built and reliable, but shouldn't be used for heavy duty work. Well, what compact truck should be used for heavy duty work?
And the artice didn't even specify the categories in their top-rankings, or which trucks were used. Did they use a wimpy 2WD 4 cylinder Tacoma or a V6 4WD Tacoma TRD?.
I think this article sums up the Tacoma pretty well:
http://home.earthlink.net/~azttora/truckoftheyear.html
That comparo in 1998, along with the recent comparo against the Hummer, Jeep and Land Rover, where the Tacoma won yet again, is pretty conclusive evidence of the truck's off-road capibilites. That's why I bought my truck. The fact these guys keep saying their Ranger is as capable as the Tacoma off-roading is ludicrous.
I have already admitted I don't think the Ranger is a bad truck. However, the people hotly involved in this debate are like tbunder - foks who bought 4x4 Rangers with off-road packages and oversized tires, etc. They just keep insisting their Rangers will eat the Tacoma off-roading, and that just ain't so.
The ONLY advantage the Ranger has over the Tacome NOW, is the fact that the Ranger's engine was just upgraded and can now tow about 600lbs more than the Tacoma. But Tacoma will also be getting a brand-new 3.7L V6 soon. I'm sure that will be interesting.
The link I posted concludes that the Ranger was the top-pick by 3 reputable reviewers compared to the one by Tacoma..
As far as 'off-roading' goes:
Prior to 2002, using options only available from the factory, it is clear that the Tacoma had a slight edge.. (locker, large tires, and great shocks) were the key..
Replacing the Rangers tires and shocks and you end up with a truck that can handle anything the TRD could. But I agree, at that point it would be comparing a truck with aftermarket mods, to one that is available in factory form.
Even in stock form, both the Tacoma and Ranger are very capabable off-road.
However, the vast majority of truck buyers won't see any 'off-roading' except for the occasional jaunt to their favorite fishing hole or field which is really not a challenge for any 4x4. (or even 4x2's for that matter).
For these truck buyers, the wide variety of options, configurations, combined with great handling, engine, reliability, comfort and value make the Ranger a great choice to consider.
Where ever do you get your links? From a guy named Yoda...muahahahaha!!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~azttora/truckoftheyear.html
Now that has to be one of the best pieces I've read to date. You ever took a look at the link itself....that should tell you something as Stang had pointed out. C'mon man post something of value. It's getting real old on the BS that you keep posting......and we do know now that is exactly what you post...I believe its called disinformation...........
In regard to Texans, well, they are Texans. They and we, Coloradians toss tomatoes at each other in Lake City once a year. I would suggest that if, while hunting, one just powers off-road, without regard to the impact of the enviroment, such a person is giving off-roaders a very bad name. It takes years to undo the impact of a vehicle treading thru the virgin forest. Such acts directly result in closure of prime off-roading areas. The acts of the few effect the many. I hunt small and big game, and would hate to have the sport ruined. However, in Texas, if that is what your use to, they do hunt differently down there. Climb trees and such...and that stupid contract on land to hunt it.
If you will go back and look at some of my earlier posts that reference you, you will see I was quite complemetery, and stated in your situation the Tacoma should work out fine. However, do not discount the Ranger as a very nice truck be it in 4X4 or 2WD. They offer multiple configurations for any taste, requirement or pocketbook.
I have 51,600 miles on my 99 4X4, only issues were a door sensor, and a GEM module that was repared under warrenty. I did complain about missing shifts twice, 2nd-3rd and my dealer installed, under warrenty, an upgraded syncro for that gear combination. I could have lived without it, as the shift issue occured at a higher than normal speed, was racing an 88 Ranger 2.9 up a hill.
Lets close with some quotes from the site found by Bess:
"Compact trucks are less popular with consumers than full-sized trucks, which can carry and tow more. In this category, reviewers praise the Ford Ranger (*est. $12,000 to $24,000, depending on options)...
more than any other model."
"Consumer Guide says the Ranger is...
well built and has a comfortable ride, as well as offering a wide variety of passenger cabin, cargo box and engine options."
"Toyota’s Tacoma line of small pickups (*est. $20,000) was also recently redesigned. These models offer 142- and 150-horsepower 4-cylinder engines and a 190-horsepower V6. They're well built and ride nicely, critics say,...
but are not meant for any heavy-duty work."
I'm not posting this to start a war, as I generally feel that crash test results, although helpful, are not the gospel. There are many other factors involved, particularly the driver. However, I keep hearing flack from the ranger crowd about how the tacoma has bad crash test results. I just don't see any data to support that argument.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/1999Pkup.html
I'm curious. If you checked out the '98 to '02 tacomas.....how did you miss '99?
That link with the article declaring the Tacoma truck of the year is AN EXACT copy from Four Wheeler magazine. Why are you so hot and bothered with the link, and not the content of the article? This is exactly what I'm talking about - you discrediting anything you don't like.
I would say the crash test results of both the NHTSA and the IIHS SHOULD COMPLEMENT EACHOTHER. When this is done (and not done), the Tacoma fares very well. Your never-ending garbage about the one star impact rating is an incomplete, noncomprehensive and idiotic argument.
Bess, I'm sorry, but I disagree with your statements regarding slight modifications making the Ranger as capable as the Tacoma off-roading. First, much more is involved in a finely tuned suspension than just slapping on a set of Bilstein shocks. The main reason the Tacoma keeps beating everything else is because it's equipped with a true locking rear differential - an item considered crucial for true off-road enthusiasts. Better yet, the Tacoma's locking diff can be turned off and on, eliminating the disadvantages a full-time locker (which is what MOST 4x4 fans use) that so many complain about.
Again, I'm not saying the Ranger is a bad truck. Personally, I do not care for its styling at all; I think the Tacoma is a much better looking (except for the new models' grill). It has proven itself time and again for its off-road capibilities. And it comes with the Toyota quality, fit and finish, reliability and value that over the years I have come to expect from Toyota.
Standard is never a maximum limit, standard is what the designers calculated to be the normal payload for the truck, maximum is what truck can handle, but not for long. If anyone would like to prove that Ranger has a standard towing capacity of 5K lbs, great.) all year long.
About the safety ratings:
IIHS and NHTSA ratings arent exact science. They vary from year to year. This is why when you look at the 98-01 test results for Tacoma, it shows 3 stars, but may for some reason show 1 star for one year. It all depends on your point of view, which rating you take: you can take a 99 1 star rating, or 98-01 3 star rating. The crash ratings are made to be a possible indication of safety of the vehicle, not to be taken completely literally.
If you want to take the ratings literally, explain the horrible performance of a F150 98-02 fullsize.
When looking at the ratings (IIHS), I would be more concerned with Ranger results that show that the safety cage doesnt hold up at a 40mph crash.
To give you an idea about those ratings:
About a year and a half ago a Pathfinder, looked like it was 97 or 98, still hte small one, not the monstrosities they make now, slid across the lanes and hit me almost headon. He was going 30, I was going 30. This was basically an offset collision: he hit me on the drivers corner, at about 30 deg angle off hte axis. Both cars going 30 mph, this was higher than 40mph collision if he just drove into a wall. According to the IIHS ratings, he should have near totalled his truck (P safety cage, overall M). Yet I ended up totalled, and he drove home with the bent up grille. Both vehicles were approximately the same height.
scorpio- max towing of a ranger 4.0 SOHC is 5600lbs. it has more torque than tacoma, so it will pull more.
pluto- what about my theory. haven't discounted it yet. whats up? do you actually see some sense in it? new truck wins the contest. how about the sales numbers? no comment on those either? hehe. hold on,,, i see it. ok bud, stop waving it so fast. i see your white flag already. dont worry. ill be nice. lmao
Pluto--->I would trust a NHTSA.DOT.GOV site over a home.earthlink.net/~azttora/truckoftheyear.html url.
Could AZTTORA stand for AriZona Toyota Tacoma Off-Road Association?
Don't knock the different crash testing companies and organizations. Each one uses a different testing methodology.
You want a link to something showing the Ranger in higher review than the Tacoma?
http://www.autovantage.com
Look up 2001 Ranger and 2001 Tacoma scores. (Can't post direct link because of edmund's character limit)
I appologize to the long time posters to this forum, as you have seen this before. But Pluto asked for it.
Bess--->Yeah man! What about our 4x2's that might go on a backpacking trip, or down to the beach, but not over mountains and through streams left and right. Since I now use my Ranger as my commuter to work, I get a kick out of all the magazines quotes saying "Tacoma kicks all butt off-road".
Allknowing--->I guess the 69 Charger, AKA. General Lee must be the God Father of off-roading... (Re. Jumping Post 2982)
Now I love my 1998 Tacoma and everything but, what the heck is Toyota thinking? Trying to squeeze every penny of profit out I guess.
Can someone enlighten me on this one/
And like I said before, on the IIHS site they rate the tacoma as the best in class.
Bottom line: from the info I see on NHTSA and IIHS, the ranger and tacoma are the 2 safest compacts out there.
What do you drive nowadays? That 4-months-in-the-shop-new-Chevy? Yeah, I'd say you're real safe then, not driving.
If you ask me, you're jealous and have buyer's remorse, and trolling here around here on the Toyota threads distracts you from your self-pity.
Besides, what's wrong with giving you a taste of your own medicine? Can't handle it?
Memory Defecit Disorder? Never heard that term before. Whatever it is, though, I'm sure stang has it. He can't remember his on-line temper tantrums, but others can, like myself and Yoda.
How can one have an intelligent discussion on anything with someone who lies? Need for me to post the links to your lies? But you seem to have a need here don't ya....yeah that's it....you need a life....haha
Yoda? where is he? He attacks stang and posts a link to who knows where....that's real good...who'd believe someone like that?
You state that you'd like to have an intelligent discussion. How do you expect to have one if you post trash like:
anytime we start comparing hard data between Chevy and Toyota trucks, you guys start acting like children and all the name-calling and issue-skirting begins
Looks to me like your trolling again....cause posts like the one above indicates that you want to stir that pot....don't ya, Pluto....
-well since I don't own a '99 tacoma then I guess I won't worry. thanks, dude.
Maybe they argue about everything except Ranger vs. Tacoma because it's a non-argument - we all know Tacoma is the one to beat.
Furthermore, maybe some of the Chevy and Ford posters are doing their best to close this topic - it's too embarrasing for them the way the Tacoma runs circles around Rangers and S-10s.
What a great tactic - stir up trouble, then delete yourself out of it!