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Comments
Excellent reply DITTO!
Merry Christams or Happy Holidays,
MidCow
PS: ADVICE from an "elder": Don't crash in your tin can least you meet your maker
Here is a Christmas gift:
You don't seem to present yourself as an "elder."
Opinions are like you know what, unless like me you have actually owned both automobiles your opinions carry no weight, in my book, and I am sure many others reading these boards.
Are you implying your opinion is a fact because you happen to have owned both of these vehicles? I think you need to learn how to differentiate a fact, from an opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion in this forum.
According to the IIHS stats, (who I emailed and got a personal response from), re: Honda Civic sedan and VW Jetta are identical in width at 69in!
The Jetta is almost 2 inches longer...but that's not the reason it's tested as a midsize. Apparently, 3,000lbs is the cut off. Civic is ~200+ below, Jetta is ~200+ above the 3,000 mark.
Below is a quote of the email respose I received when asking if the Jetta and Civic were comparable in term of safety given their separate classes.
"Thank you for your email. Our vehicle classifications take weight into account as well as overall size. Indeed, the new Jetta is not that much bigger than the new Civic, but it weighs nearly 500 lbs more. At 3,214 lbs, the new Jetta tips into our midsize category because the weight cutoff for small is 3,000 lb. Hence, it is a small and light midsize car. The older design was a heavy small car at 2,932 lbs – just 70 lb shy of the small car weight limit. The new Civic is also heavier and bigger than its predecessor, but at 2,751 lb, it is still under the weight limit for our definition of small car. Despite the different size classification, it’s probably OK to compare Jetta and Civic because our size classes can span wider weight ranges, but ,I wouldn’t advise comparing ratings for cars that are much more than 500 lbs different. :surprise: In the case of all other things being equal, the heavier one will generally provide better crash protection. "
(Okay, I added the surprise Icon!)
------------------------------------------------------------
That’s the best compliment I had in a long while and I thank you sincerely for it. Being "older” doesn’t mean acting like a prude or a cigar smoking stuck in the mud old fart. I act like a kid, live like a kid, and enjoy life like a kid which is to some "mature" individuals chagrin, and I feel sorry for those individuals. I don't care what others think, only one being matters to me as he is my only real superior advisor that I can actually respect and believe.
Married 30 years, 54 years old, had a ton of jobs and even more cars, debt free except for this Jetta which can be paid off tomorrow if desired, have enough investments for my age to retire comfortable, have a son working on his doctorate at only 23 years of age, so this immature older guy has done what most consider a fair job in this life.
Fröhliches Weihnachten
You mean you can't hold a job? LOL
(((APPLAUSE)))
It wouldn't be fitting to mention my graduating #1 in my class with a 4.25, getting a full college scholarship, and managing to keep my original job, because that isn't the point of my conversation. Besides, my opinions don't matter to you, you ignore facts or slam the fact that I use them.
Think what you like, but this "kid" seems to have more support on this board than you've garnered, despite your impressive and irrelevant abilities to change jobs, live debt free, and raise children. If this thread is such "a big waste of time" well, by all means, don't post.
FWIW, I am a HUGE fan of the Jetta GLI, I just think the rest of the line is overpriced and underwhelming. Note my presentation of opinion, and that I didnt pass it off as fact.
And finally, welcome to the Edmunds.com TownHall! 7 years fashionably late to the debate, given your vehicle accumen, but oh, what an entrance!
~alpha
BRAVO!!
Good luck with your Civic. You seem like a civic minded individual. Punn intended! Happy Holidays!!
The Jetta is the choice I made and glad I did, the Civic was a mistake and one I'll never make again, call it education at the Honda dealerships delight.
You will never convince me that selling the Civic was a mistake, the more I drive my Jetta the more I like it, the more I drove the Civic the less I liked it. I made my judgment based on true experience unlike this forum provides, mere words.
That said, I do wonder why you purhcased it (the Civic, lest my antecedants be confused) in the first place, it being such an inferior vehicle and all. My other contention is that you deem the opinions, as well as presentation of objective factual comparison between the two, irrelevant when it comes from those of us who have not owned both [vehicles]. This is simply absurd, given that these comparison forums exist explicitly FOR debate. If we all only commented on those vehicles we've owned, nobody would be here, and very little use would these boards be of.
Again, my perceptions may be swayed by the last generation Jetta; I felt it was something unique, special in the segment and had competitive advantages against its peers. The new Jetta, straddling the compact and midsize segments but commanding midsize premiums, seems to have lost the youthful trendiness of its former self.
Remarkably, the GLI, which I have not driven, seems to be VERY impressive, at least on paper. With light optioning and a stick, the GLI stickers only a grand above the anemic overweight Jetta 2.5 Pkg 2, while offering much more performance hardware and seeming personality.
Seasons Greetings to everyone!
~alpha
You are quite justified in asking that question. I had the 05 and to be honest it was defective to the point I have an attorney bugging me to pursue legal action although I refuse to do so for personal reasons. I bought the Civic out of pure frustration, nothing more, and that in itself was a stupid thing to do. I am human with emotions and they took over while common sense flew out the door. I "thought" I could live with the Civic but after owning the Jetta, NO way in Hell was that even a possibility, it was that much difference. I spent good money doing it so I am sure you believe me one that one!
Please do not comment about me especially when you are just plain wrong.
*)I DO NOT own a 2006 anything.(HINT: click on my name to see bio.)
*)I have said several times in the past that VWs need to be maintinaed while Hondas are designed to be ignored. (not an "admittal".... just facts)
Perhaps you would do well to read this forum FROM THE BEGINNING to see what comparisons have been made between these 2 fine automobiles. You seem to be re-hashing what has aleady been said in the past and somehow tagging myself as "not admitting" things... when in reality, I am the one that originally said it!
I maintin that it is not fair to compare these 2 automobiles too deeply. Some folks (myself included) have gone down the "Honda trail" in the past and have now graduated to Volkswagen. The Civic DOES NOT HAVE the 12-year/unlimited milage warantee that I require.
To be fair, I want to clarify that this is only the rust-resistance warranty. The basic warranty is 4 year/50,000 miles, and powertrain is 5 year/60,000 miles. In some areas (like SoCal and the South U.S. in general, rust warranty's aren't as important, b/c of the lack of road salt (warm climates=less snow=less salt to melt ice on roads. I don't have an opinion to add here, just additional warranty information.
Thanks, and y'all all have a Merry Christmas!
Last Friday, I got a chance to testdrive a Jetta value edition 5MT. This was a part of the two week effort to buy a commuter for my wife. Here are my impressions.
Pros
1. Nice interior. I do not believe in bogus marketing phrases like "german engineering", but I do believe that Europeans still have an upper hand when it comes down to "taste". Jetta's interior was a good example of that.
2. Nice ride. Although not as sporty as the Mazda 3, or even the new Civic coupe, it drove very luxury-car-like, not in an overly cushy way, but in a smooth, confident way. My wife loved it.
3. Nice steering. Again, not particularly feelsome, but it was very nicely weighted, felt natural, and above all felt very precise. I'm very surprised that an electric assist can be this good. Nice job, VW.
4. Nice manual tranny. Not quite as precise as Honda's, which is very hard to beat in that category anyway, but a little better than the Mazda3, which in itself is quite good. It had a nice shifting feel, and the clutch was neither stiff (like my WRX) nor sticky. (like the Mazda 3)
Cons
1. Low-tech engine. Granted, it was better than I expected, in that at least it gave me a good oomph around 20~30MPH in the first gear. But from that point and on, there was nothing much that I liked about it. It sounded reluctant after 5K RPM, and I just couldn't get used to the detroit-pushrod-like 5.8K red line. This torque biased iron block may not be all that bad for my wife's driving style, but it certainly didn't win my heart.
2. Strange exterior design. To me the front end of the car and the rear end of it just don't mix and match. No wonder, one is from a C-segment hatchback and the other is copied from the biggest sedan they sell. I'm actually a big fan of the MK V GTI, and I love the way it looks. But with the Jetta, they created an odd profile that makes it look like a Corolla.
3. Not much excitement anywhere. As nice as it was, there was nothing that really stimulated my inner-child like the way Mazda 3 did. But I understand this is not really a con for many others.
Overall, I think the value edition is a good deal for those who enjoy a nice, relaxing drive. Compared to the 06 Civic coupe that I drove a week ago, the Jetta clearly focuses on more mature crowd.
This is partially because of the new Jetta growing old, and partially because of the new Civic growing young. I actually found the Civic to be a terrific car, just a tad bit juvenile. On the other hand, I also found the Jetta to be an excellent car, just a tad bit senile.
To me the Mazda 3s hits the right balance in between, but I know it's not in the discussion so don't flame me for mentioning that. :P
-------------------------------------------
Funny and what makes life exciting and why we all don't want the same women. I not only drove the Honda, but owned and drove it for over 4000 miles and hated the five speed from the first to the last day of ownership. I feel the Jetta has a MUCH better shifter.
Shifting steady since 1967, and I "think" I know what feels right, and weird---for example that 06 Civic I owned and dumped for another Jetta, which IMO a much more desirable automobile on all levels.
Ah.. sure.. you must know what feels right FOR YOU. Let me just say one thing though, if you somehow think that your "experience" gives your opinion any more validity than others', which by the way is the impression I got from the very moment you stepped into this discussion, I gotta tell you, many editors of car magazines that you are so willing to bash have a lot more experience with cars than you've ever had. That doesn't seem to make you care about their opinion at all does it.
I'm glad that you are so madly in love with a VW, so much so that you willingly took the financial loss associated with ditching a month old car. Me personally, would not do such a thing, but whatever float your boat I guess.
Hondas are Hondas, point A to B tools to be trashed when finished with and why the sales figures are high, so many trashed versus the Real automobiles. Your opinion is like a smelly breeze, it gets blown away when reality comes near it.
Precious
Although I do not totally agree. (some Hondas are on the verge of being classics) Certainly the Civic fits into this category as a disposable car. The Jetta is in a different "class" than that. (not one of the shoehorned "classes" that magizenes attempt to create) Most magizenes compare NEW cars... those should be pretty nice. I look at what a car will be like in 10-12 years.
The lack of the 12-year/unlimited milage warantee on the Honda may be the easiest way to see how these 2 automakers see their wares. The body on the Volkswagen is dipped and galvonized to protect it from corrosion...the Honda is apparently not expected to last that long.
That is why I have been saying for months now that this forum which is attempting to compare Jetta & Civic is not really a very good comparison..... However, for the folks that insist on comparing these to automobiles, there is hours of reading that hits on most of the fine points contrasting these 2 automobiles.
I might add this fact since we are on this subject: Having owned the 05 Jetta and now the 06 Jetta with the 06 Civic in between and driving all exactly the same way on the same highway at the same speeds, same all around conditions. I get passed or pass many tractors and whether I like it or not stones get kicked up, it's impossible to avoid driving those roads everyday. On both Jettas I had minor stone chips but on the Civic it seems a small stone hitting the finish absolutely does way more damage. It seems to make the paint come off in circle like shapes, some as big as a dime. The Jetta seems to reflect that kind of damage and instead a small hair line like crack appears with the paint still mostly intact, in fact nothing that goes down to bare metal, unlike the Civic. The Civic must use softer less resistant paint and coatings because it does damage a lot easier, and this is not my imagination. In fact on my current 06 Jetta a big tractor recently kicked up a BIG stone which resulted in a small dent on the very front of the hood, but the paint is almost completely intact, where on the Honda the paint would have come off to the size of a quarter. I had the oil changed today at the VW dealer and was told by the body shop that the small mark can be rubbed out and then the bender mender guys can put out the dent, no body work required. Honestly and NO slam on the Hondas, but the Honda's paint and coating don't hold up anywhere as close as the VW does. At 4000 miles on the Honda I had probably ten paint chips and with two VW's and combined mileage of 12 K I have three stone chips and that is counting both VW's. As they say, you get what you pay for.
The Jetta also uses MUCH thicker metal for the body. Here is an interesting story that shows this fact clearly.
On a coworker's Jetta, when the light hit it just right, I noted that all the horizontal surfaces appeared to be slightly "rippled" underneath the paint. When asked about it, he explaind that when he lived out west, there was a hailstorm which hit all the vehicles in the parking lot. He went on to say that most of the Asian cars in the parkinglot were deemed TOTALED (unsalvagable) by the various insurance companies....while his Jetta was found to have minimal damage to the metal and just needed some fresh paint.
Again...the deeper one looks at comapring these 2 automobiles, the more we see that they are very different. The Volkswagen is much more solid from a very real point of view. Perhaps that is why the Jetta does not have that "tin can" feeling every time one slams a door closed.
1. It's hard for me to compare seats because the 04 seats were really uncomfortable and then became fine as they broke in. I really hated the 06 seats as first but they are breaking in nicely. There were both rock hard to start, but I think you want it that way. They will stay firm over the long term. It really depends on your preference. Both are on the firm side and both are on the well bolstered on the side and in the back. Both have curves for your lumbar spine as opposed to the relatively straight seats of a mazda3 or a corolla. The lumbar curve in the 04 was too high. This lumbar curve is about right. One thing that annoys people however, is the upper part of the seat back which is angled forward on the 06. However, if you like to drive with your seat reclined, it helps to tip the upper body forward to reach the controls. The headrests are further forward in the 06 but if you recline like me, it is easy to get used to.
2. Straight line holding there is absolutely no comparison. The new car is much, much more stable at speed and easier to center. At 70 mph in an 04, the rpms were much higher and the car would toss all over the place. Getting passed by a truck would send you over to the side. This one is truly stable at higher speeds. The new steering is designed to keep center much easier. It is almost effortless to keep the car straight. The one disavantage may be over grooved pavement as you mention. The reason is that the steering is more touchy and there are less revolutions of the steering wheel for a turn of the wheel. Therefore when the groves move the car a bit, the slight movement translated to your hand and then the wheel cause the car to jump a bit more than before. The better handling overall however, can make up for it.
Hope that helps!!! mcam
Warner
PS - Haven't done a long trip yet where I can evaluate the seats....most of my trips are in the 20 mile range. I will update with an opinion on the new seats vs my '04 (which I like a lot) after I have take a long trip. Let's face it, a seat would have to be pretty terrible to bother someone after only 20 miles. I drove the '04 on a 1300 mile trip (straight through driving - I stopped for 2 hours at the half way point to pick up what I went driving for) and had ZERO back pain complaints to report. Every vehicle prior to this would have hurt my back after than many miles sitting and driving (20 hours out of 22 total for the trip were driving hours).
Warner
You had a Civic for 4k miles and had chips the size of dimes? I have seen nothing like that on my '98 Civic and am regularly on the road w/ dump trucks licking out tar bits. Nothing even remotely close. I can only assume the paint on the new Civic is better as the tech improves over time.
Dime sized, sheesh. Does any of your anecdotes not suffer from over-exaggeration?
Wow, I don't have chips like dimes, or that many chips to speak of, really, after 156,000 miles on my 96 Honda. Tailgating can be a culprit to getting rock chips, I have learned (by watching my father learn the hard way), so I tend to keep the "2 second rule" minimum on the freeways when I can. I can't always, when I'm in bumper to bumper traffic, but a knowledge of back roads keeps me out of that when it is too hectic. I wouldn't care to go 85 with cars within 5 feet of me in all directions, so I take secondary roads when the rock-chip threat is really high.
If your chips were as big as they say, I think I would have gone to my dealer infuritated and seen what they could've done about it. Unless you were following the money truck, you should never have round DIME SIZE rock chips!
----------------------------------------------------
You're correct and just another good reason I no longer own a Honda....I do like rice though, with sweet and sour sauce on it.
HOWEVER, I beleive the original poster said this happened when being passed. I can attest that the ONLY 2 times I have gotten rock-chips in my windsheild is when I was being PASSED.... not from following too close.
So, in this case, it seems that it may not be the drivers fault.... but the paint which apparently is not sticking well to the surface of the automobile.
Perhaps the BEST way to protect the paint is by using a product such as invinca-shield
Bpeebles, this is directed at you at all but the other posted who suggested the paint chips resulted from not following the 2 second rule. I am well aware of that rule, also always scan your environment way out and behind yourself. Like I said, driving 38 years and do understand it's workings.
Unless I want to go 85 to 90 MPH to get ahead of giant tractors I need to let them pass me by. They are so big that they create a vacuum as they go by picking up road debris which ends up stoning one’s car. I had one recently go by me at 90MPH and kick up a stone. There was a 800 number and a dispatch number clearly visible on the back of the tractor which I called. I was told that I need to call my personal insurance because unless the debris fell off the tractor they were not responsible. I was so lit up I called the state police and they basically reiterated that statement, although they took the license number and my name because I told them he was going at least 90 mph. This happens all the time, it really can't be helped unless you sit home on welfare. I have lived and know what’s fact and what's not. The Honda chipped up a hell of a lot easier than the Jetta ever did, by far. Their paint sure doesn't stay on like it does on the VW and when it comes off it comes off in a big NOTICABLE chunk!
Believe it or not, I have zero reason to be untruthful. The Civic was a fun little car, it really was, but it's no Jetta by any stretch and this topic IMO is irreverent.
In reality , on my drive to work, it would be unusual to see more than five other cars on the road during my whole drive into work.
Speaking of Pittsburgh, my Jetta TDI can travel from Vermont to Pittsburgh on ONE TANK OF FUEL. (I did it last summer) I still had enough fuel left in the tank to drive around for a couple days before filling up.
There is no other automobile sold in North America that could match the ecomemy of my Jetta TDI. (56 MPG)
It seems to me that VW has an image problem and most of it seems to be deserved:
(1) Not very reliable, need to be tuned, AH!, because it is German?
(2) Atrocious service. Many VW dealers do not have stellar service. It seems they are pretty far down on the Customer Service evolution scale.
I want something that is RELIABLE and fun. Did I say REALIABLE. It is no fun being stranded in a car break down even if the car had impeccable German road manners before breakdown.
I think Honda has oustanding safety and outstanding features besides very very high RELIABILITY. Add a 197 HP and a 6-speed and you have an unbeatable combination of fun, performance and reliability.
Too me I prefer a 8,000 rpm redline over a 4,400 rpm redline.
Bpeebles said:
"There is no other automobile sold in North America that could match the ecomemy(sic) of my Jetta TDI. (56 MPG)"
What about a Honda Insight 5-speed which by the way has better acceleration or the Toyota Prius ? I looked long and hard at the economics of a high mpg car and the trade-off of performane and fun just wasn't there for me. I bought a 6-speed 2005 Honda Accord Coupe which gets 29-32 mph travelling and I have a 2006 Honda Civic Si on order. I plan to have fun and enjoy life.
REV' M UP,
MidCow
P.S. - Diesel has finally gotten down to the price of premium.
P.S.S. - In 16,000 Miles on Accord I have only been to the dealer for free oil changes and one tire rotation.
You are misinformed about the so-called "hybred" vehicles. Please allow me to give you some highlights.
*)They ony get the claimed MPG during stop-n-go driving.(Running on Battery and regenerative-braking)
*)On the highway, they are constantly running on the gasoline engine...thus get gasoline econemy.
*)They are TERRIBLE for the envrinment because the battery-packs are full of yukky chemicals that need special handling.
*) The battery-packs NEED to be replaced regularly at the tune of many thousand dollars ($5000?).
In the end, those "hybred" vehcles are a gimmick that may look good in the short-term. Looked at in the long term, they make for a car that no-one wants to purchase second-hand because of the high-cost of replacing the battery-packs. (The automakers LOVE this idea of an unwanted second-hand car becasue they will sell more NEW cars)
As for the price of Diesel fuel... it would have to be about 2X the cost of gasoline JUST TO BREAK EVEN with your gasoline-powered Hondas. Apply some high-school math and see for yourself. This does not even include the intagable fact that I only have to stop for fuel about every 750 miles. I have better things to do than stopping to refuel my car. (more time to do what I want!)
I am not misinformed about Hybrids. Much of you information is wrong>
(1) some Prius owners didn't get advertised MPG, but almost all insight owners have.
(2)Doesn't make snes what you are saying. The Insight gets 66 mpg. The Toyota HSD system is a full hybrid and yes the citiy mileage is better becuase at low speed it is fully electric.
(3) This has not been proven at all. There is some additional environmental polution during manufacturer of batteries but, this is still in debate. Diesel is much higher poluter, even with the low sulphur diesel that will be in the US in a couple of years.
(4) Battery replacement cost is unknown. Also, the $5,000 is the FUD highend if all electronics and traction battery had to be replaced. Modular replacement is already taking place at a much lower cost. Also the batteries have a 8 yr 80,000 mile warranty longer in CA.
Your break even anaylsis is way off. New Hondas are rated at 30/40mpg. You said your TDI gets 56 mpg highway. Are you saying the new Honda Civic only gets 28mpg highway ? That is what your simple math implies. Even my Accord gets better than that. The Civic Si will probably get close to the rated 32 mpg highway.
Oh! Yah just to be fair the VW Diesel oil changes coast around $100 This is 3 to 4 times an oil filter change in a gasoline engine. Also, since the German car must me maitianined frequently, I asume you and your service manager are on a first name basis. I don't even know my service adisors name.
750 miles without stopping on a 14.5 gallon tank wow wow!
Even at 56 mpg that is running you gas tank pretty low, only 1.1 gallon left. Even on long trips I usually stop to get food, stretch, and use the facilties every couple of hundred miles.
Cheers and yes Civic Si is still better,
MidCow
Both the Civic Hybrid and Jetta TDI will be in the February issue of Consumer Reports, and, in my opinion, they use a very standardized economy loop that yields real world fuel consumption that is remarkably close to what I've managed in my cars that they have tested. We'll see which model does better.
~alpha
Just look at the price and size, they are not even in the same class. Comparing a Golf to Civic would be better.
Offline, I have mentiond to several people about this very forum comparing civic and jetta.... most of them were surprised that this comparison is even being attempted.
In any case, over the past months, we have pretty much exhausted all attempts to compare these two automobiles and have described the differences quite clearly. (While also showing the lack of simularaties.)
I do have a new bit of new information; (not really a comparison)
On the news the other day, discussing the eating habits of americans and the problem of obesity, it was mentiond that the new-style Civic has seats that are W-I-D-E-R than the past generation Civic. The reason for this was said to be becasue average size of Americans has been getting bigger and Honda decided to make wider seats to accomodate.
My thoughts exactly. I enjoy carving up a curvy road every now and then, which my Accord does nicely (06). For the most part, I am driving to school or work, though, and not taking my car to the dealer once a month is a bonus to me. It is a choice to be made, albeit a tough one.
Bpeebles, this is directed at you at all but the other posted who suggested the paint chips resulted from not following the 2 second rule. I am well aware of that rule, also always scan your environment way out and behind yourself. Like I said, driving 38 years and do understand it's workings.
Believe it or not, I have zero reason to be untruthful. The Civic was a fun little car, it really was, but it's no Jetta by any stretch and this topic IMO is irreverent.
I don't doubt your driving skills with 38 years experience, I too have a rock chip on my windshield (of the 96 Honda) which actually came off a dump truck going the opposite direction on a two lane road! I also know where you are coming from as far as the 2-sec rule not being possible is concerned. When I don't have 8:00 classes in the morning, I work 8-5, and work in Birmingham, which for all its traffic, at most has only 4-lanes per side of the interstate, traffic space is limited. I, luckily, have a few options on my route from home, which I often take. It takes me longer (55mph instead of 80mph haha) and is a few extra miles, but it is much less stressful than battling traffic and idiots on the road doing 8 things when not one of them is steering! I can't attest to the Civic's paint, just our Accord's, and we don't have rock chips that large. I didn't doubt your honesty, because frankly, why would I? LOL. I also believe the topic is irrelevant. The Jetta is much more on par with the Accord, as it offers more car than the Civic.
bpeebls, I do not understand your continued claim that the Jetta and the Civic are NOT in the same class.
1. If one agrees that a Golf is in the same class as the Civic, then so is a Jetta. A Jetta is nothing but a Golf with a boot.
2. The price difference between a Civic EX and a Jetta 2.5 is not greater than the difference between a Civic and an Elantra. Just because German makes overprice their cars does not mean that their cars are a class above what they should be.
3. Availability of some fancy options does not put it in a class above either, otherwise a Mazda 3 will be a class above a Civic.
4. You've made a claim that VW cars have stronger and longer lasting body panels. From this you somehow reached the conclusion that a Civic is "disposable", and ergo a Jetta and a Civic do not belong in the same class.
So how is having some rust after 10 years any worse than having your 1.8t engine replaced after 40k? When so many things go wrong in modern VW's (and let's not even argue about well established statistics with personal anecdotes, I also know a guy who voted for Ralph Nader and that didn't send Nader to the White House.) and so many things need to be replaced, are you REALLY driving the same car after ten years just because it's got less UNDERBODY RUST even though it doesn't have the original ENGINE? It is simply amazing to me that one can claim a car that tops the reliability survey as "disposable" and one that breaks by far the most in small car segment as a keeper. To me that just seems like a cultural bias against Asian made cars.
Happy New Year.
I don't think so, sorry. The Accord also stays out of the shop too much to be "on par" with the Jetta.
Thick as a brick=Jetta
Um, accelerates like one, too!
I have to mention, that it strikes me as funny that despite the obvious advantages of the Accord over the Jetta, someone will still pay thousands more to get a much smaller, much slower, and much less economical/reliable automobile. Is it because it is premium? Don't think so, b/c the Phaeton is turning out to be the flop that many predicted. Sales have gone from slow to stopped, and production will soon cease; W-12 Phaetons will be available special order. It sounds like VW needs to kick up the quality, improve it's own image, swap most of its dealer staff, and start fresh, because they aren't ready for the big time. **Steps off soapbox**
I also realize Honda isn't a premium (i.e. Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, BMW) brand, but it doesen't try to be.
Those who want to seriously compare the two subject vehicles need to step up and do so. What I need to do is remove any further posts that do not have that purpose in mind. So that's what I'll be doing from here on out.
but one thing i noticed about both new models, the german jetta looks more japanese than it used to, sort of like a better looking corolla. when i look at the new civic, it conjures visions of a bmw/audi flavor. go figure...