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Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave
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Comments
I doubt if they did make a reduced-length version it would weigh 800 pounds less.
Have you seen the Enclave concept car in person at the auto shows? No one there thought it was stodgy. Quite gorgeous and forward looking.
I looked at that video of the Enclave on the Buick website, and thought it looked quite nice in motion. Doesn't look bulky or stodgy at all. The size does give me some concern, though, as it might be more space than I need. I'll wait for the gas mileage figures to come out--if it stays in the mid-to-high 20's, that's just as good as many smaller SUV's.
Take a look at any of the 'Consumer Guide' issues the past
few years and your not going to find any Tahoe 22 mpg/hwy. Even GM states '14city/18hwy'. CG's 'tests' seem always less than the MFGs ratings(ie Tahoe 12.2mpg,usually in mixed driving, in a non company/normal driving test)...If CG tests,say a Acadia FWD out at 18/24hwy, then I'm buying.
I'm going to wait for a non bias(CG)test 1st. Based on Mfg
leaked figures,my guess realistically is 16/21...but hopefully better...and 18/24 is marginal for me.
Take a look at any of the 'Consumer Guide' issues the past
few years and you won't find any Tahoe at 22 mpg/hwy. Even GM states '14city/18hwy'. CG's 'tests' seem always less than the MFGs ratings(ie Tahoe 12.2mpg,usually in mixed driving),but if an Acadia rates in a non-company test at 18city/24hwy, then I'm buying. I'm going to wait for that non bias(CG)test 1st. Based on Mfg leaked figures,my guess realistically is 16/21...but hopefully better...and 18/24 is marginal for me.
Your numbers are a bit confusing though. The only Tahoe at 22 city is the new 2007. The GM stated 14/18 is for the old one? Many improvements were made to make the new GM full size SUV the best rated full size SUV made.
Bottom line is that the curent EPA numbers are only really good for comparison purposes. Compare the GM 22 mpg to the XXX 19 mpg. The GM will probably get 3 mpg more than XXX but will depend on how you drive and all testers will get different numbers depending on how they drive.
Realistically very few will ever get 18/24. With my driving style I would expect an average of about 20 but I do almost all short city drives. I am currently getting 17 in my Envoy XL.
Please explain to me why..."realistically very few will ever get 18/24" when a tank like the Tahoe is now in the 20 city mpg range? So, why couldn't anyone expect more from sleeker more nimble versions.?. from GM. Personally never owned an GM but feel/looks like they've most probably got it right this time, only if the mpg is there....
My point is that very few will hit the epa mileage numbers. The Tahoe is rated 16/22 while the new Acadia is 18/24. So it is rated about 2 mpg more in both city and highway. With my driving style I get about 18 with the Tahoe. So with the new Acadia I would probably get 20.
The Acadia is a big vehicle. It weighs alot. I am guessing but it probably has the same or larger frontal area (drag)than the Tahoes. It will have a taller dimension from the floor to the roof than the Tahoe.
If I look at the competition the closest I can find is the smaller MDX which is rated at 17/23. So the MPG looks to be there.
18/24mpg SUV as I only mentioned those figures in my initial msg as a bottom line fuel reqirement...as I'm in need of mucho cargo capacity and have been wanting to get out of my van the past 2-3 years. I only reqire the space a half dozen times p/yr for 2-4 days at a time and my ego does not appreciate the caravan year round. And to drive a compact SUV and then be at the mercy of rental companies for 'appropriate' vans as I need it,is not comfortable feeling either.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116089
I like everything about these GM crossovers(ie styling and
'stow n go' like 2nd/3rd rows) w/close to Van cargo utility
...So, does 50/50 city/Hwy driving translate to EPA 21mpg
Average and therefore actual normal driving equates to a
19mpg in 50/50 mixed driving.?. Still will wait on tests on realistic driving conditions prior to jumping the gun.
I am sorry. I am completely lost now on what you are saying. Or are you trying to be funny in that statement?
But your 2nd statement does sound correct. I would guess that someone driving somewhat fuel conscious would get an average of 19-20 mpg with 50-50 mixed driving.
In looking at the MDX numbers I would say the Acadia would get 1 MPG more than it. So perhaps your source for mpg would be a good place to get your estimate?
best guestamate figures of 17/25. So, here we go on the subject of 'differential'(between city mpg and hwy mpg):
A. 2006 Tahoe 5,050#/285hp 14/18epa = 4mpg differential
B. 2006 Durango 5,000 /230 14/18 = " "
C. 2006 Armada 5,300 /305 13/18 = 5mpg "
D. 2006 Murano 3,550 /245 20/24 = 4mpg "
(crossover)
However, there are a few SUVs out there that do have that
'epa rating' differential between city/hwy of 6mpg. and the ford Freestyle crossover has a epa 19/24(5 dif)...So that is why I'm courios about the 17/25mpg(fwd; 8 dif) you're figuring on/calculating based on other like designs.
Now, Acura MDX does have the 17/23mpg with a 6 differential city/hwy mpg...but where would we get off figuring that a GM engine would be more efficient (both w/265hp) than a quality Japanese product...and considering the MDX is 2-300
lbs. lighter also. I'm on your side Professor...I want to be the eskimo and I want you to sell me that fridg/an air conditioner/and an Igloo cooler too. I really want this GM
crossover scenario to panout for them and the consumer...I need that product as fuel efficient as possible...but then there is reality....Hope I clarified/unfunnied it for you.
you worked out a guestamated Acadia 17/25epa based on the Acura MDX's(17/23)epa. Sorry, I misunderstood you and just wanted to know why you gave a bigger(3-4mpg)city/hwy spread in a guestamation for the Acadia of 17/25mpg. I have misunderstood and did not know that GM/others must have come up with this and not your EPA guestamation..I told you in the beginning,that I'm ADD...so tolerance is an OK thing.
For the record though...If I were offered a 'brand new' 2001
Lexus and a 2006 Cadillac(equive. model and price)I would
have to go with the "not necessarily the state of the art"
Japanese vehicle over the GM product. However, saying that, the Acadia base unit sounds like it is going to be aprox. 10k less than the MDX base unit, plus the Acadia's stow 'n' go seating and extremely grand cargo space(for an SUV)is the key for me if the economy is reasonable. I do feel GM will give me a dependable product if they[consumer guide]can clean up the fuel economy for a teacher just trying to buy USA. I'm driving USA now, but they are not making it easy for us to be loyal,but I'm holding out.
But, yes the Enclave looks to have a higher spread than typical SUV's.
Probably due to better aero, 6 speed and lower rolling resistance car tires.
As far as price I cannot believe it will sell for $27K ($10k less than base MDX). That would be quite a deal and I hope I am wrong. My guess would be around $35k base but I am only guessing. Great base price would be $32K.
the mid 30s. The 'base' Outlook should have everything I need and nothing I don't. How serious are you looking at these GM crossovers. It appears the Outlook is coming out
1st/then the Acadia/and then the Buick...from what I've read so far.
The Outlook should be the least expensive. Where are you getting the mid $20's price?
'saturn' for model and pick 'crossover' for category. If it
does not come up... hit 'view all' button and then scroll down to Saturn Outlook...hit 'more info' and scroll down to the bottom of the article. You'll find the Acadia and the Enclave while scrolling to Outlook, but the Outlook does have the most complete info of the group.
I'm sure the mid 20s means 27k, but then if I can have that cargo utility I so dearly need/with adequate fuel economy,
then I'm covered, if the mid 20s is a reliable number. This keeps me out of another van for another 10 yrs. Just out of couriosity, what did you end up with and why would you still be interest in these new crossovers at this point?
Rather have a vehicle more like a car but none fit my needs. I will probably buy a crossover in 2 years when my lease is up.
I really liked the Pilot but I felt it didn't have enough room. The Freestyle I never cared for due to lack of power and styling. I think its a ok vehicle for most people though. Right now I am very interested in the Acadia and will probably buy one a year after its released due to the fact that I need two new vehicles and can't afford both at the same time.
The GM vehicles interior dimensions I would like to see are not available yet. The spaciousness dimensions I would compare are from floor to ceiling and interior width. I thnk these will be bigger than almost any vehicle on the road today. The dimensions like headroom and legroom can be deceiving. The seating position can be low and uncomfortable to give great headroom numbers.
I also would not worry about quality. Nowadays GM has their first year quality under control and seems to be better than the transplants everyone compares them too.
crossovers'(ie Pacifica/Freestyle) and their predecessor type trucks and etc.
The CX9 data never mentions it's width, under 71"(would imagine)like most of their cars and also never mentions(that I'm aware of)the maximum cargo space expected.?.(suspecious...and pretty low I would think). It looks like a wagon to me and should be campared to the other wagons that pretend to be SUVs like the subaru/outback/Legacy sort of stuff....And not sure how the Edge enters this arena of 4000-5000# vehicles with 7-8 seats plus 200+ to 300 hp movers. You are right that it(Edge)is smaller,but lets try to keep the comparisons in this hemisphere or the subject of focus; The Big mid-sized SUV crossovers similar to GMs new ones...
">link titlehttp://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingCX9
The Ford Edge is definitely too small to to be on my shopping list.
I think you're right about the Edge, though: isn't it the size of the Mazda CX-7? No 3rd row seating, too, for now. Not really in the same category, but still interesting to mention since I wasn't aware the Edge was coming out until I read it here a while back!
2nd row seats do not seem to go down entirely flat and the center area ID of the cargo area has, I guess wheel well protrusions that do not seem to be evident in the GM versions(GM nicer cargo bays).
Any data you can come up with on the CX9 fuel economy at this time. This really means a lot...say 2mpg x 20gal. would mean 40 more miles p/tank and x 52 weeks(if no road trips)=s 2,080 extra miles p/year for the same $s. If the CX9 could do something like that, then I may be able to overlook the cargo bay deficiencies that seem apparent and important to this consumer...but on the other hand the high 20s for a base CX9 and mid 20s for the Outlook eats up the 300 p/year gas saving and I'm back with a GM crossover(both above pricing per edmonds'site). A tank a week is pretty common on the West Coast.
The midsize SUV trailblazer is 74.7" wide while the full size Tahoe is 79" (same as Enclave).
The only reason I mention the CX-9 is that it seems to be the closest competition to the Enclave/Acadia/Outlook, i.e. in terms of "car-based" SUVs. It's definitely larger than most midsize SUVs out there, yet a bit shy of the larger Enclave. I think its price-point will also be close to the GM products.
I'll have to see all of these in person to make up my mind. Right now the only possible way I'd get the Mazda is if the Enclave or Acadia is just too darn big and drives like a boat.
Things would be so much easier if I didn't want a usable 3rd row seat...
scenario for me...baring 30% better handling, plus a 2-3 mpg better fuel advantage w/pricing in the mid 20s. I don't expect 'any' of those variables will surface...plus we're back to...what is the CX9's 'useable'cargo volume...which seems to be a secret. When anyone locates a reputable source/figure on that,please advise... anticipating 75-85%
of the new GM crossover's volume from my bird's eye view.
Seattle Times Article
http://www.bridgeportautogroup.com/index.shtml
Site does not list pricing,but has some good info.
In a comparison with the Ford Edge which I will also be considering, it says the Acadia has advantage over the Edge in that it includes standard 4 wheel disc brakes and the Edge doesn't even offer it.
Thats bunk. The Edge also comes with standard 4 wheel disc brakes. As far as I know.