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Among men only, or all drivers? :surprise: :P
I'd say all drivers. I have overheard in a restaurant pure idiots describing how wonderful they think their driving was, and I'll tell you, they must have encountered a truly brilliant driver that managed to pull off miracles to safe their sorry butt after hearing what they were bitching about. The most incompetent driver on earth would insist with conviction and white knuckles as they grab the wheel, that no one can touch them in the driving department...lol. This is one area were ignorance truly is bliss [roll eyes]
All kidding aside tho, that particular survey would allow too much room for error, even if for no other reason beyond the birds-of-a-feather factor. You could have a room of male friends that all drive heavy truck, (female too if u like) or all race cars or bikes (I do both) so the odds of that room quite literally having drivers with above average driving ability is greater than...say a room full of Wall St bankers who possibly half of them don't even own a car.
Of course I am not saying all heavy truck drivers are superior drivers...some are idiots just as there is in all walks of life. But we are talking odds, so...
And I likely wouldn't invite any poor driving truck driving friends over cuz we would not have that in common and their reputation would actually complicate my reputation each day.
I have more than 2 but just counting 2 of my closer friends who do drive heavy truck and including myself, we have well over 10 million safe miles between us.
That doesn't happen by accident..
It acknowledges that Toyota has problems, and are things getting better or worse for them?
Sales from #1 to #2, to #3.
'Short term' domestic incentives have been extended to what seems like the required strategy to move the metal.
Nobody is required to like a Toyota over any other vehicle, for whatever reason(s) anyone decides is important to them and they free to post about that here.
If anyone feels the Toyota brand is perfect, I am sure they can start a thread about it.
>Nobody is required to like a Toyota over any other vehicle, for whatever reason(s) anyone decides is important to them and they free to post about that here.
>If anyone feels the Toyota brand is perfect, I am sure they can start a thread about it.
X2
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Seriously though my experience with my 1990 Toyota Celica and my 7 month old 2010 Toyota Yaris have been nothing short of excellent. One problem with the annoying low tire pressure light coming on in my Yaris.
I mostly just watch in here because there's less serious discussion in here anymore than there was in the now closed Hyundai as a luxury brand thread.
"Toyota's legendary quality may be falling victim to record production volume."
With that we were off to the races.
Toyota's legendary quality may be falling victim to record production volume.
Vehicle recalls in 2005 compared to 2004.
Toyota +100%
Ford +20%
Chrysler -87%
GM -63%
#2 of 12442 Looks like Toyota... by lemko Dec 02, 2005 (9:12 am)
...really IS on its way to becoming the next GM.
#3 of 12442 Re: Toyota recalls double: volume hurting quality? [scott1256] by black_tulip Dec 02, 2005 (9:50 am)
Replying to: scott1256 (Dec 02, 2005 8:56 am)
That is a bit misleading. A more meaningful statistic would be recalls as a percentage of total vehicles produced from year to year.
For example, if in year 1, production=100 vehicles and recalls=20, and in year 2, production=500 and recalls =60, the quality actually went up, but this statistic would indicate a 3x increase in recalls!
Anything to sell a paper, I guess!
And yes, Toyota is opening a truck plant this year and is slated to overcome GM as the number 1 automaker in the world.
#4 of 12442 Quality and volume. by scott1256 Dec 02, 2005 (10:19 am)
From the article:
'Analysts agree the number of recalls could be a function of Toyota's rapid development.
"It's really a factor of the rate of expansion, the speed at which they're growing right now," said Erich Merkle, director of forecasting for IRN, a automotive consulting firm. Anytime an auto manufacturer opens plants and ramps up production, "you open yourself up for some quality issues." '
#5 of 12442 They better slow down their world domination.... by reddogs Dec 02, 2005 (10:32 am)
or their Empire might collapse from all these recalls....
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Go back & reread my post. As I've said more than once, I have no particular interest in defending Toyota, which builds rather boring cars. I've never understood mindless, blind loyalty to any single brand, although I will admit to a preference for German cars.
I'm making a simple point: some of the people who are tearing into Toyota have an anti-import agenda. They don't like any non-US brand; they're only here because they smell blood in the water. They know who they are.
That's all I'm saying. You can choose to interpret that as you will.
See? Too many names - I couldn't keep trck. Yeah. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.....
1. Nissans suffering from EXTENDED DURATION SUAs that result in Saylor like cases, result in Nissans swimming in the river ?
2. Nissan's treatment of workers / employees the way toyota treat theirs ? Even employing semi slave labour and withholding their passports ? Fighting small change with the widow of a deceased toyota employee who loyally was worked to death even though toyota already had billions ?
3. Shenanigan like behaviours that comes close to what toyota has done. We know it all already. I don't have to repeat all here.
4. And other toyota like mega problems that make one shake his / her head in disbelief ?
There is a difference between cost cutting and " wringing water out from a dry towel ". What toyota have done is the latter.
In times of ever occuring inflation and competition, everyones got to cut cost one way or another. But the difference between a good company and a bandit is the WAY they did it AND the PROVEN CONSEQUENCES for the consumer.
If toyota is a good company today, I will not bring up their past. But since they have gotten from bad to worse, its only natural that one will want to see their history too to see how much worse they have become. Hyundai, GM on the other hand have since gotten better and good, so I see no point in bringing up their past.
Yea, a lot of Americans do vote for toyota with their wallets. But hey, remember, a lot of Americans also voted for Bernard Madoff !!! A lot of Americans also voted for Bush !!!
Sometimes people vote because they have WRONG, or INCOMPLETE, or DISTORTED information. Tell me, does Madoff give those US investors proper information abt what he does with their money ?
Its the same thing. We all know by now that toyota is a master at covering up information, buying off witnesses, delaying recalls and working with other parties to ensure the public does not know.
And because of all these acts, very likely also bought off jd and other car magazines (hey, is it a surprise that a bank robber strikes twice ?), how can the US car buying public make their best vote based on such distorted information abt the so called toyota's quality myth ?
The fact still stands, Europe and China, the 2 other big car market in the world, voted otherwise. These 2 big car markets give most of their votes to American and European cars, and remember, according to jd power's esteemed ratings almost every year, European and American cars are supposed to be losers. Way below toyota. And in China, Nissan got the biggest vote among all Japanese car brands, not toyota.
Maybe only US car voters are the smart ones, and that the massive millions of other car consumers on the European continent and the Chinese all are clueless for buying so many jd power lowly ranked American and European cars.
"The one that pops out is Nissan," Anwyl said. An Edmunds review of comments about Nissan by participants in its online forums found that most had complaints about transmission problems."
Complaints about auto defects increased sharply this year (LA Times)
With your credentials, you should, even more, compared to the rest of us here, realise the difference between " COMMON problems " reported by various cell phone users and FREAK problems only found DOMINANTLY from ONE maker.
You maybe right with yr BB example. And I bet that the same will also be true for cell phones made by Nokia, Sony Ericsson, Motorola etc. I am SURE that some of their complaints are also due to user error, like getting wet. I won't argue with you on this one.
But, now pls open your mind, toyota's cases as compared to other car makers today is like this, to use an analogy : Say one day you realise that there is a rising number of Nokia phone users reporting that their cell phones suddenly burst into flames or making calls by itself without your order. And when you tried to stop the unintended call, you can't terminate the call. The phone kinds of have a mind of its own. Refusing your terminate call move.
And you hardly find the same case happening to BB or Sony Ericsson etc... Now, with such a STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT difference between Nokia and the others, do you really still think its because only those Nokia users are so absent minded that they actually wanted to dial someone, changed his / her mind, and then forgot and say " Hey, why did the phone dial away on its own ? "
And when the users say, " I did NOT forget, and I even tried to terminate the call but it CAN'T BE DONE ! ", what do you think will happen if Nokia says " No, that can't be true. It MUST be the users lying ! " The users must be fuming mad like those angry toyota customers today blamed for not being able to stop a normally functioning car !
Or will you say " It burst into flame because the user have stupidly sun bathed their phones for so long that it caught fire. " But strangely enough, you hardly ever see other brands catch fire like that.
Won't you agree that the reasonable think to say is " Hmm, yea, only Nokia phones have a spike in such strange cases, its highly probable that something is wrong with those Nokia phones ".
When you keep saying those toyota drivers are at fault, pls always remember to ask yourself " Then why is it so difficult to find EVEN ONE similar case of a Nissan, or a Honda or a Hyundai ? "
And remember, I am talking about SUA whose duration is so long that it results in spectacular crashes. Sudden surges in acceleration for a short period like 1-2 seconds are probably also found in other car makers. And those hardly result in fatalities because 1-2 seconds is enough for drivers to take evasive action.
Once again, you just don't see such spectacular SUA crashes happening to other car makers today. Again and again you hear toyota users say " The brakes have been applied, I have shifted to neutral etc. but the car still keeps speeding up ! "
Have pity on those victimised customers will you ? Wait till its your turn one day and you will realise how awful it feels to be blamed for something you did not do. And that you almost lose your life (or already) and still blamed for being so silly.
And/Or toyota, in order to follow katsuaki watanabe's " wring water from a dry towel " philosophy, lowered the spec too much and they did not anticipate that it will result in rust faster than previous specs.
And like I said, Dana have no choice but to pay up because they accepted toyota's order and they make the frames. But again, I don't hear the same case happening to Nissan, Honda, Hyundai....
It will be fun if someone can prove that Dana also makes frames for Nissan, Honda, Hyundai with no rust problems....
How about a link to something explaining that comment?
And/Or toyota, in order to follow katsuaki watanabe's " wring water from a dry towel " philosophy, lowered the spec too much and they did not anticipate that it will result in rust faster than previous specs.
And like I said, Dana have no choice but to pay up because they accepted toyota's order and they make the frames. But again, I don't hear the same case happening to Nissan, Honda, Hyundai....
It will be fun if someone can prove that Dana also makes frames for Nissan, Honda, Hyundai with no rust problems....
It's been covered already actually, but what he's gonna post up isn't going to totally answer your plea. You'll see..
I wonder if I should supply the poor soul a link to a company that sews it? They use an extra heavy gauge, and layers it so it's shiny side out on both sides..
1. Ford is an ex-convict, BUT today, it has turned over a new leaf, making good cars that is in high demand all over the world.
2. toyota, also an ex-convict, only gets worse. Continuing to rob banks, rob homes etc....
Now, who should I focus on ? Who should I continue to check on their past misdeeds to find out why he is getting worse ? And not turning over a new leaf ?
But more importantly- the noise. It was very noisy. Road noise especially over those NY roads was high. And the ride itself was not smooth. Also you can clearly feel the gas engine kicking in. Like -- not refined but crude and coarse.
I wonder why Ford put that hybrid in the Escape-- they could have put it in a more recent modern SUV like the Edge . I guess that would have been popular as a hybrid model. But putting it in basically a 10yr old Escape platform was not a great choice. B'cos the Escape hybrid gets pretty good fuel economy for an SUV. But the 2nd row seats were quite roomy with good legroom. While I was getting a taxi in NY - I always preferred the Ford Escape or Toyota Sienna. :P
The Prius though is much smoother and refined with less noise. Obviously it's not as quiet as say an Avalon but it is not designed to be like a big luxo boat. Very few Prius' in NY taxis- but I wont prefer it b'cos the rear leg room is small and cramped and the cargo space is very limited. But it is very popular as a commuter retail car here in NY due to its champion stellar fuel economy with the crazy stop and go traffic .Also, gas is again getting higher - touching 3.30+ ,so if gas rises further its sales will rise sharply. :shades:
By the way, did you see or hear the Akio Toyoda's rice bowl reference at Detroit auto show? Well as per you, Toyota is like that evil mom who feeds poisoned rice to her own kids-we Americans !!! And wonder wonder- we still eat that poisoned rice ,die but still want more of those rice bowls !!! LOL !! C'mon buddy ?? :P :shades:
Dana Holding Corp.
You have described the 2010 Honda Accord I rented for 2 weeks in Indiana last Fall. I have ridden in the back seat of my brother in law's 2010 Escape several times. I did not find it as noisy as that Honda. It was not up to my Sequoia. Then it had an MSRP $25k less than the Toyota Sequoia.
That's protectionism and won't make American cars any better.
The Big Three are making a comeback based on the *MERIT* of their cars, and I respect that. Competition improves the breed, protectionism does not.
The Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Edge Sport with MyFord Touch, and Chevy Equinox with a standard DI engine would not exist today if it were not for the pressure from the competition.
if it's possible for them to objectively discuss Toyota's problems
Good point.
They know who they are
So do we.
Not the best source, but a summary nonetheless:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DaimlerChrysler-Mitsubishi_alliance
A police raid on its headquarters in July 2000 uncovered hidden documents stashed in a locker, and soon after over 500,000 vehicles were recalled for repairs
Note the HUGE difference vs. the case against Toyota:
* Police obtained a legal search warrant
* Evidence was found, harmful to Mitsu
In Toyota's case:
* Evidence was stolen by a disgruntled ex-employee
* ex-employee was sued and lost millions in court
* ex-employee also had to pay punitive damages
* ex-employee lost 2 counter-suits as well
* "Books of Knowledge" convinced plaintiff lawyers to drop lawsuits
Like night and day.
Where are my 5 million serious problems? You should get busy, that'll take a while...
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA
Are you referring to Ford, who had double the complaint rate in NHTSA's ODI database prior to all the media hysteria?
I think so, but Ford's off topic. Let's talk about Toyota, LOL.
The supplier is responsible if the frames do not meet specs.
Dana agreed and paid up. If Toyota had lowered the specs, Dana would not be paying out millions.
Case closed.
Actually the panic already has started.
No sir, I'm talking about complaints from September 2009, the most recent available before media hysteria skews them.
That's very recent, not some decades ago past.
"Ford is statistically good," Anwyl said. "This is another data point that shows how domestics pulled even with the other manufacturers."
Go Ford, $18.70 and rising. TM is coming around. Just a long ways from their peak in 2007.
Lincoln needs a lot of work, but I hear they will start having unique designs and maybe even powertrains, and I agree with that strategy.
Buy and hold Ford stock, I say.
Looks like they will get lucky with timing.
Near me gas is $3.24 and diesel is $3.69! Yikes!
That said it has been proven several times since the first Prius hit our shores that we buy them as a knee jerk reaction rather than a true desire to own such a vehicle. Aside from the techno geeks and eco nuts they are just another car that gets great mileage. Will the value of the Yen make them less affordable than other options, like the Fusion Hybrid?
I agree, but I doubt GM, Nissan, or Toyota care, as long as they can sell them.
Fusion Hybrid competes with the Camry Hybrid. I don't think there is a people mover hybrid, so the Prius V has the first shot at that segment.
The potential is great, but I wonder if they missed an opportunity to give it more utility and meet the needs of bigger families.
Noise in a Honda? Oh, say it ain't so!
OTOH, a Camry or Corolla seemed more like what I would expect in, say... a Buick.
Its not that one is better than the other, its just that they feel different....at least, to me.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aMwWoD6G0Z9w&refer=latin_- - america
From the link...
The products of Latin American slave labor end up in cars and trucks made in the United States by Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Nissan Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. Pig iron that goes into steel used by Whirlpool Corp., the world's largest appliance maker, and is used in foundries at Kohler Co., which makes sinks and bathtubs, can be traced back to slaves in Brazil.