Yes. Kia also tried to sell the "Opirus" (Amanti) in Europe at a huge price, I don't know if more than a few actually sold, likely to dealers. Not a good way to jump in.
40K Euro...seriously. If they have the stones to try Europe again, I bet it won't be grand enough for that price, and will fail again.
Each new H has to be light years ahead, they don't have a choice, do or die.
That seems to be an H theme..."wait for the better version"...we even get it with the Genesis and Equus...better engines and suspensions are always just around the corner. Unwise.
Asian makes have much smaller shares in Europe than in NA, so H would have an easier time there, and its smaller cars are liked enough (but anything larger than an Elantra is seen as crap). Toyota also has a much more boring rep there than here, hard to believe that's even possible.
It took quantum leaps to catch up...it took less than a decade.
For months I have been seeing MY, and at first I thought it was a Ford term for their Sync or whatever. But now I know I am totally confused. Googling was no help. The time has finally come to ask...what does MY stand for?
I found a NY article in 1998 about why Lexus succeeded . Enjoy. And I can certainly say that BMW 7 series are bought b'cos it is a BMW and not a Suzuki 7 series irrespective of how good the Suzuki is .. Brand name and recognition - Luxury brand name and image. Perception is realty. Read and Enjoy !! :P
Every Tundra I've seen is owned by a white collar type. 6k a month is a bad number, no matter which way you look at it. Toyota just needs some new product.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
that was gagrace. I still remember that. A guy up the street drove a light green RX450h, but must have taken too much ribbing. He swapped it for a black GL450.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Every Tundra I've seen is owned by a white collar type.
Interesting observation. I never thought about it until I read your post, but now I realize that you're right. Just about all of the honest-to-goodness working trucks that I see in my neck of the woods are American-made.
I did see a Tacoma with a small plow on it, maybe a 6 footer. See plenty of old Chevy/Fords doing that hard type of work. Interestingly, to me anyway, is the 2011 F150 is not supposed to be used for plowing due to the change to electric power steering. Get a Super Duty if you want to plow with a new Ford. Toyota sales equivelant to Ford Super Duty = 0.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Thats a generalization. Any proof of that ?? In Texas , in the truck center of the world -- I see a lot of Tundras used for construction purposes - the 07+ Tundra that is. Tundras are getting popular here whereas 4 or 5 yrs it was just the Det 3. :P
There are several people at work that have Ox face Tundra's. Haven't seen one in the parking lot at work lately. My old Explorer still gets there every day. I see many more Titan pickups. If you said your friend was a professional hunter and did engineering as a hobby, I would consider him to be more blue collar.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I have yet to see a Tundra at a work site. Many of my neighbors are in construction and trades and they all have Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, and Dodge trucks.
Absolutely, I agree completely. But at the time the Celica arrived wasn't Ford pushing Mustang II's? I was too young to remember but I don't recall them being very well regarded...
I remember the Mustang II. They aren't well-regarded now and I didn't like them then. However, they were a hit in the market following during the early 1970s "energy crisis." By 1973, the Mustang was really pudgy and needed to go on a crash diet. Seems it resorted to anorexia or bulimia. It lost weight and a LOT OF MUSCLE too! :sick:
The LF-A is ok. There are several Porsche cars that will blow it into the weeds. A run of the mill 911 Turbo S will get you to 60 MPH half second ahead of the LF-A. And leave you enough money to buy a nice home in many parts of the USA. When Lexus can get you from 0-60 MPH in 3.1s, and sell you the car for $160K, they will have matched the competition. They have a LOOOONG way to go.
I agree completely Gary, the LF-A is a bit overpriced for what you get. And for the money I would also agree that a Porsche, or AM, F, etc would probably be the choice for a majority of the population who can actually afford such a car...
Still, as a halo car, it showcases the engineering and design prowess in the Toyota camp. They haven't really flexed their supercar muscles before so it could just be an example of things to come. :shades:
Lexus shows the LF-A on their website starting at $375K. That eliminates about 99% of the World wide buyers. It sounds like they want to recoup their R&D with a couple hundred sales. Not sure their production plans. If I was spending that kind of money Ferrari is still aesthetically more pleasing to my eyes. Face it, someone buying a car like that want people to look. I don't think it is there yet. This beauty is $150k less:
Where we differ is your claim that a luxury automobile has to be sold and serviced by a completely separate dealership setup.
A Faberge Egg is still a Faberge Egg, whether you find on at Walmart or a Sothebys auction.
The same goes for a Gucci handbag.
While the method in which a product is sold and serviced does, to some, influence their buying decision, it has far less to do with the product classification.
As an example, the BMW 7 series, by any qualified reference you wish to obtain, is considered a luxury brand in the USA. If, overnite, BMW implemented a policy to import their entire product line here and sold them along side the 7 series (and serviced them along side as well), the 7 serice would still be considered a luxury vehicle.
How did Lexus, even with designs that are often called bland, become one of the top-selling American luxury cars, behind only Lincoln, Cadillac and Mercedes?
Hmmm... Even your own souce considers Lincolns and Cadillacs as luxury vehicles... Even though they are serviced at Ford and GM dealers along-side Aveos and Fiestas....
I rest my case.
But, its all in good fun. Some folks get way too involved in these things.
I'm with you on that one. I want something I can live in for that much loose change. I am sure the LF-A will find buyers. Always people with money to burn.
Fleets will buy American most of the time no matter what. There are a few exceptions - maybe in places like SoCal. I've seen the beach patrols use imports.
Another exception is the post office, because they like to get Right-hand Drive cars, so JDM works for them.
Few and far between, though.
So Tundra's selling to the personal use market.
The supervisor at Bartley corp got one, though, and that opened the flood gates. Now the VPs are getting them. They've used GM, Ford before that.
It does have a wonderful muted burble going on there. I love the sound of an 8. But a 10 is unique enough that I actually prefer it over a 12 or even the 16.
Price makes my nose bleed. But the price of a lot of cars makes my nose bleed.
Seriously - at the auto show, here's a sampling of prices that might make you pass out:
VW Touareg: $54k Jeep Grand Cherokee: $46k Dodge Durango: $47k Ford Explorer: $46k
I guess it's a good thing for the manufacturers, that they're able to get more for these, but didn't $50k used to get you an Escalade or Navigator? What happened?
I was experiencing total sticker shock.
I did see a VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI for $28k that was nearly as nice as that T-reg for half the money.
You can still get good values but you gotta shop around and limit the options. An Elantra Limited with heated front and rear seats was $19.9k.
Even minivans - I don't think I saw anything under $30k, and I'm not talking about loaded. Loaded ones were mid $40s.
Did you see the opening shot of the instrumentation? In 5887 miles, avg MPG was 4.1. Seems about right, lol
8800 rpm redline..it sure has learned breathing..
In my mind, it's an odd commercial though. But I suppose it does typify your average LFA pursuer. Someone with more money than brains...being impressed more with its ability to shatter a glass than carve a corner...
Thats a generalization. Any proof of that ?? In Texas , in the truck center of the world -- I see a lot of Tundras used for construction purposes - the 07+ Tundra that is. Tundras are getting popular here whereas 4 or 5 yrs it was just the Det 3.
The Toyotas don't sell as well up north because people know their frames rust out within 10 years. Chevy advertises that their pick-ups are the longest lasting (by largest percentage of registrations since 1985). I don't see Toyota claiming that title unless they replace all their Tacoma and Tundra frames every 10 years.
Comments
40K Euro...seriously. If they have the stones to try Europe again, I bet it won't be grand enough for that price, and will fail again.
Each new H has to be light years ahead, they don't have a choice, do or die.
Was it lemko that called the RX a Faberge egg? I suppose that's as nice a term as I can use :shades:
I totally agree.
They should have waited for their newer/better products.
Having said that - I believe Hyundai will soon be the #1 selling Asian brand in Europe. That's not small feat given it's a crowded, mature market.
Each new H has to be light years ahead
Not really, they've been growing steadily. The quantum leaps have been more recent, though.
I'm actually going to check Google Maps and look in the parking lot, see if we can make out which cars are parked there, LOL.
BRB...
Too small, can't make out which cars.
I do see a TON of convertibles, and almost every other car has a moonroof.
It's the LifeTime Athletic on Google Maps, zip 20854.
We go to a Chinese restaurant next to there, I'll count the cars next time.
Asian makes have much smaller shares in Europe than in NA, so H would have an easier time there, and its smaller cars are liked enough (but anything larger than an Elantra is seen as crap). Toyota also has a much more boring rep there than here, hard to believe that's even possible.
It took quantum leaps to catch up...it took less than a decade.
I know. That's why it fits so well.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But, if you bothered to read my earlier post, you would have seen where I showed documentation.
Again, I have no problem with anyone's opinion, but when they start claiming it as fact, I draw a line.
Look at post 13014 for your request...
LOL!!!
I don't know if I have seen the "benchmark" term applied to those cars by any non-fanboy sources yet.
That's my guess and I'm sticking to it!
It took me ages to figure out CPO, forgot to try to Google it but when i finally did it came right up.
Read and Enjoy !! :P
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/21/business/making-its-marque-at-the-top-toyota-s- - -lexus-offers-a-lesson-in-brand-development.html
The Celica started out as a copy of the Mustang.
6k a month is a bad number, no matter which way you look at it.
Toyota just needs some new product.
A guy up the street drove a light green RX450h, but must have taken too much ribbing.
He swapped it for a black GL450.
Interesting observation. I never thought about it until I read your post, but now I realize that you're right. Just about all of the honest-to-goodness working trucks that I see in my neck of the woods are American-made.
See plenty of old Chevy/Fords doing that hard type of work.
Interestingly, to me anyway, is the 2011 F150 is not supposed to be used for plowing due to the change to electric power steering.
Get a Super Duty if you want to plow with a new Ford.
Toyota sales equivelant to Ford Super Duty = 0.
Mustang was redesigned in 2005 and refreshed in 2010.
Lexus today, in NA anyway, sells on name as much as any other highline make.
A huge part of that success is indeed the "experience"...you get kissed and coddled, and some love that. Brilliant move on Toyota's part.
I hope the GL is a diesel, if not...meh, not hugely different in my eyes.
Maybe all those Tundra's are in Texas. They sure aren't here.
I know one guy that owns a Tundra. He's an engineer and a huge hunter. So he's kind of blue collar.
Haven't seen one in the parking lot at work lately.
My old Explorer still gets there every day.
I see many more Titan pickups.
If you said your friend was a professional hunter and did engineering as a hobby, I would consider him to be more blue collar.
Man, I would love to see Toyota take a risk on a "retro" remake.
(Had the term "chick's car" been coined back then? I don't think so.)
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-turbo-s/
Still, as a halo car, it showcases the engineering and design prowess in the Toyota camp. They haven't really flexed their supercar muscles before so it could just be an example of things to come. :shades:
Where we differ is your claim that a luxury automobile has to be sold and serviced by a completely separate dealership setup.
A Faberge Egg is still a Faberge Egg, whether you find on at Walmart or a Sothebys auction.
The same goes for a Gucci handbag.
While the method in which a product is sold and serviced does, to some, influence their buying decision, it has far less to do with the product classification.
As an example, the BMW 7 series, by any qualified reference you wish to obtain, is considered a luxury brand in the USA. If, overnite, BMW implemented a policy to import their entire product line here and sold them along side the 7 series (and serviced them along side as well), the 7 serice would still be considered a luxury vehicle.
How did Lexus, even with designs that are often called bland, become one of the top-selling American luxury cars, behind only Lincoln, Cadillac and Mercedes?
Hmmm... Even your own souce considers Lincolns and Cadillacs as luxury vehicles... Even though they are serviced at Ford and GM dealers along-side Aveos and Fiestas....
I rest my case.
But, its all in good fun. Some folks get way too involved in these things.
I'm with you on that one. I want something I can live in for that much loose change. I am sure the LF-A will find buyers. Always people with money to burn.
Fleets will buy American most of the time no matter what. There are a few exceptions - maybe in places like SoCal. I've seen the beach patrols use imports.
Another exception is the post office, because they like to get Right-hand Drive cars, so JDM works for them.
Few and far between, though.
So Tundra's selling to the personal use market.
The supervisor at Bartley corp got one, though, and that opened the flood gates. Now the VPs are getting them. They've used GM, Ford before that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-F_0HHGMIk
Price makes my nose bleed. But the price of a lot of cars makes my nose bleed.
Seriously - at the auto show, here's a sampling of prices that might make you pass out:
VW Touareg: $54k
Jeep Grand Cherokee: $46k
Dodge Durango: $47k
Ford Explorer: $46k
I guess it's a good thing for the manufacturers, that they're able to get more for these, but didn't $50k used to get you an Escalade or Navigator? What happened?
I was experiencing total sticker shock.
I did see a VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI for $28k that was nearly as nice as that T-reg for half the money.
You can still get good values but you gotta shop around and limit the options. An Elantra Limited with heated front and rear seats was $19.9k.
Even minivans - I don't think I saw anything under $30k, and I'm not talking about loaded. Loaded ones were mid $40s.
Yikes.
8800 rpm redline..it sure has learned breathing..
In my mind, it's an odd commercial though. But I suppose it does typify your average LFA pursuer. Someone with more money than brains...being impressed more with its ability to shatter a glass than carve a corner...
Battle of the Supercars featured an LF-A and it did well on that show, FWIW.
The Toyotas don't sell as well up north because people know their frames rust out within 10 years. Chevy advertises that their pick-ups are the longest lasting (by largest percentage of registrations since 1985). I don't see Toyota claiming that title unless they replace all their Tacoma and Tundra frames every 10 years.