By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Most others do not have one. Remember that MotorTrend test mentioned that?
If you can't use neutral or turn off the engine, your only hope is the brakes or the brake-throttle override.
I watched some videos about how the CTS pedals are designed (at least on the Sequoia), and they show that there are really only 2 moving parts - the pedal itself, and the spring that pushes it back. So in the case you mention, we know it's neither of those.
The electrical connections are weather-sealed. So corrosion is not likely, plus they'd have that evidence if it were, so that's out.
The pedals use magnetic field generators, so the sensors are actually measuring the strength of a magnetic field. It's not an electronic position sensor, there's actually no physical contact at all.
That points to magnetic interference as a possibility, not electrical failure.
LaHood's team spent 10 months reviewing the software code and found nothing wrong on that side.
Something as simple as Reflexology shoes could potentially interfere with the magnetic field, however. Everyone may get a laugh out of this:
http://www.vitalmagnet.com/ is the URL for anyone who cannot see the embedded image.
Here are magnetic insoles:
http://www.buyamag.com/insoles.php#reflex
Check out these magnetic boots built by NASA (ironically):
Any how, not to go off on a tangent, but the possibility of external magnetic interference is more feasible than it being the electronics.
As mentioned recently, this is not a Toyota phenomenon. Every manufacturer gets SUA complaints.
But like I said in the "I like manuals because" forum, this entire topic is a non issue in a manual transmission car. There is NOT ONE documented case of SUA in a standard transmission equipped vehicle. Not one!
So this would suggest that, at least, some (all?) of these people were naturally predisposed to pushing in the clutch in order to regain control (which makes sense as they do that constantly in the normal operation of the transmission) Compared to auto drivers who don't really put it into neutral (as in neutral-only) very often, so they would lack that natural inclination in an emergency. Some drivers are on top of things enough to that, however. For example, anyone who has slipped an auto into neutral when sliding on ice up to a stop sign, likely has the wherewithal to think of neutral right away when faced with a SUA. And we know that some out there do. That guy that nursed his WOT Lexus into the dealership is just one. There must be others too, or there would be greater numbers of crash instances one would assume.
Do they represent the majority though? IMO, no way. Most would be on their cell phone and freak first.
Or....one can assume that the common denominator here is the auto tranny and the many electronic controls at play as that tranny communicates with all the other numerous vehicle 'safety' systems like ABS, ESC, TC etc etc. When you have a computer with the ability to actually apply a braking force at one or more wheels without any proactive input of the driver's foot on the brake, that in itself would suggest that there is a LOT of electronic potential intervention at work here. Now factor in a PC crash, and, well...maybe that truly does give us SUA in some of these instances.
That was not always the case, so those manufacturers used to be able to provide a lot of car for the money.
That is not the case anymore.
How have the J3 done in competition in the pickup truck arena?
No doubt, this is the same tech that, when I take a car into a dealer to correct a problem, the reply always seems to be...
"We couldn't find/see/hear anything out of the ordinary..."
LOL...
Still, that's hardly anything more than anecdotal "evidence" of electronically-induced UA.
I do think, however, that its unfortunate that the car wasn't impounded so that it could be examined by independent experts. It may have shown a real flaw that needs correcting. At this point, IMO, its not much more than hear-say evidence.
I'm guessing Toyota regrets not being able to look at the car as well, before the parts-swapping began.
That is not the case anymore.
I'm not sure that I understand what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that Japanese cars built in the Home Islands are in some way superior to the same cars built in US factories? That hasn't been my experience. One of the best cars we've ever owned was an Ohio-built Accord.
How have the J3 done in competition in the pickup truck arena?
IMO, not well. In fact, I've noted before that this is one area in which the D3 unquestionably excel. No argument about that. But I will say again - & I don't think that you'll disagree with me - that Asian competition is the main reason why American sedans have improved so dramatically over the past 15 or 20 years. It would be a bad thing for American consumers if this competition didn't continue.
I've noticed a pattern here - you always ask how the Japanese do in traditionally American segments.
Toyota should be Toyota, not Ford or GM. One might even argue that trying to be like GM caused all their recent hardships (too big, grew too fast).
JDM makes have their own strengths, tradionally smaller, lighter cars that are fuel efficient. Sure they want to diversify, but why try to be Ford?
You've asked where is their Mustang, where is their HD pickup, but why should they even be in those segments? I don't think they should be.
Toyota is a leader in hybrids and should primarily stick to those core strengths.
I'm sure if you think about it enough, even you will agree.
Of course they do - wide roads, long distances, over-sized payloads.
Things that simply do not apply on a small island like Japan. Large pickups would not even be suitable for home-market (JDM) consumption.
It's the same reason GM doesn't make many Kei cars. They bought the remnants of Daewoo instead (now GM-DAT).
Chrysler will use Fiat.
Ford lets Europe do their small cars.
Brands should primarily stick to their core strengths.
That is simple and you have said so. The PU market is big and big profits compared to Camry and Corolla. And the hybrids have to be even tighter profit margins.
Compare Tundra to the Titan and Ridgeline, and you'll see what I mean. Toyota has done was Honda and Nissan have failed to do - get a pickup to even be CONSIDERED for purchase.
There is no HD Tundra and I don't think there should be.
IMO, I am simply amazed that none of the J3 have brought a full-sized diesel powered truck to mkt in NA. It seems to me the logical thing to do to get those customers who pull heavy loads long miles and whose confidence in D3 had been lost for whatever reasons. Since Honda doesn't really have a normal full-sized pickup, it makes one wonder why, that Nissan, (at least) didn't try to corner the mkt in that way when they finally did their Titan, since it was obvious that Toyota wasn't doing anymore diesels since their Land Cruiser.
There is a torque race on with the D3. Ford now bragging 800 ft-lb with their new 6.7 litre. Honda of course could absolutely blow the world away by bringing a REAL heavy duty truck to the NA mkt. Offer a 6.5 to 7 litre sized inline 6 (the best configuration for longevity) complete with manual and auto tranny choices.
People have had poor experiences with each of the D3 for different reasons, but there is a reputation out there that Honda has captured among the masses, for dependability. If they did it right the first time, news that Honda was bringing a real truck to us, would spread and then as happy owners bragged how great it is, they could grab many sales away from the D3. But really, Nissan blew it the worst when they not only brought a troublesome, fuel thirsty full-sized truck here, but did so without a big diesel option. That was their perfect opportunity. Nissan built very good diesels for years back in the good ol' days.
Toyota should still do it since the other 2 seem to be asleep at the wheel. Which brings me back to my original question. Does anyone know the real reason we don't have a Japanese or Korean diesel presence in NA any longer?
But that's just it. Even if it actually does have a better year-end mileage figure (I'm skeptical) that would only apply to warm climate areas. If you factor in the considerably less than average FE in climates that are warm for only 6 mo and often below zero the rest of the year, that same Prius can't begin to show impressive numbers compared to the TDI.
We have talked before about emissions costs being the reason we don't have that great CRDI Honda diesel. Now granted, VW has had years and years of (almost) consistent diesel offerings (Cda didn't have a TDI for the years 07 and 08) and MB has been off and on over the last 40+ years, and BMW has been off more than on with diesel offerings over that same time period...and mostly only in recent years, but if they can do it in niche vehicles whose sale numbers pale in comparison to the number of Accords and CRV's Honda could sell if their CRD was available here, then it doesn't add up that meeting emission costs are the only reason.
I know someone may consider me conspiracy-minded, but I am not kidding when I say that I think the emphasis is not so much on emissions as the kazillions lost on tax revenue of the gallonage not sold, due to the difference in FE between a gas and diesel. All of our governments, both USA and Cdn, have gotten very used to that income. As it is we have many bridges and other roads that are overdue for replacement, and to kill off an extra 30% loss of tax income, just pushes those tasks further out of reach.
In Cda we have what they call 'Drive Clean'. Ugh...everytime I think of the hypocrisy in that name, I throw up a little in my mouth. It is tailpipe exhaust emission testing. Anyway, the way the tests are administered is corrupt, as is the designated government assigned garages that are authorized to do the tests. You may 'purchase' passes for vehicles that fail, etc etc etc. Furthermore, the actual emissions that apparently hurt out air, are manipulated and messed with. They put emphasis on the various different noxious gases and particulates, but never do they show a graph that shows the bigger picture, when the actual gallonage difference is calculated. So much more work can be done on a gallon of diesel compared to a gallon of gas. But alas the masses buy up what all they are selling, and nothing ever changes. If change does happen, it is only the level of bureaucracy and blind-folding increases.
Toyota was one of the first companies here to advertise higher mpg figures from autos vs the manuals. They managed this by using way taller final drive and gearing ratios, that, not unlike crash safety testing, are designed to excel at the given test that they know they have to perform. But you take those same vehicles out into the real world and drive it normally and you can't begin to come anywhere close to the gvt findings of how many mpg you could expect to get. In Cda, our Energuide ratings are quite a bit more optimistic than your own EPA, especially since your EPA was revised a few years ago.
A perfect example, would be a...let's say an 05 Toyota AWD Sienna. Rated for 22 and 32. Maybe with one person only, the driver, on a perfectly flat stretch of road with no A/C on on a 70 Feh degree day, and only for maybe 2 miles out of a 50 mile trip, might it possibly pull that off.
VW Amarok is new, wonder if they'll bring a TDI here, given they're a diesel pioneer? In fact I wonder if they'll bring the Amarok here at all.
In Brazil Toyota sells diesel Hilux pickups and SW4s, but they would not meet CARB emissions.
Did you know diesel in Brazil costs HALF the price of gasoline? Half, seriously. Less than Ethanol, even. But it's not the low-sulfur variety.
Jealous? There's more diesels there...
Fiat, Chevy S10 and Blazer, Ford Ranger and F250, Troller, at least a couple of years ago when I last visited.
Reverse conspiracy theory?
Interestingly enough, while back down in the city visiting about 8 years later, I was sitting at a set of lights and my friend says, Steve, isn't your old truck? I look and sure enough it was! Same colour, the guy was sitting with windows up in A/C comfort. The truck had been well used though but was neat to see it. Aside from the fact just how rare that combo is (probably the only extended cab with A/C ever sold here) there were a couple of identifying marks that I knew it was my old truck. Maybe I am easily amused, but that was pretty cool. I once got 52.5 mpg on a return trip from TO to Binghamton NY with A/C on. My usual was around 42 flogging it most of the time. If I owned that truck new today, I would invest in a turbo for it. That would have really woken it up. It had pwr steering too..woohoo..
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/recallpolitik/
It is widely believed on both sides of the Pacific that Toyota was made an example of in order to demonstrate to a Japanese administration unpopular with the American in particular, and to the world in general, what can happen to a nice company if a country doesn’t play ball according to American rules.
J3 decided small and mid size cars, D3 trucks and SUV's.
Currently, it looks like the D3 can also compete in small and mid size cars in addition to doing very well in trucks and SUV's.
I'm kind of nationalistic, so I would rather see our country do better than any other country.
So would I, but you & I both know that this won't happen in the absence of stiff competition.
It just seems wrong on a number of levels that at a time when we have been given another chance, that we would have an attitude that doesn't involve toeing-the-line unless having to because of watchdog competition. It might be basic human nature, but if so, it is one of our least admirable traits.
I'm sort of old - old enough to have bought my 1st new car in '74 - & I'll never forget how bloody awful cars were back then. They're exponentially better now, & no one can convince me that this would have happened without competition from imports - both Asian & European.
Many, many years ago, I flirted with socialism, but age & experience have changed my views. It's been a long time since I found competition "unfortunate" & "shallow".
Mid-size, yes. Fusion and Malibu at least, 200C is only half way there.
But small?
GM had to buy Daewoo. To this day they compete primarily on price.
Chrysler's small cars are also uncompetitive. The Caliber may be their weakest product. The partnership with Fiat makes a lot of sense, because Fiat can keep the trucks and minivans and phase out small and even medium sized cars.
Ford is perhaps doing best here, with the Focus and Fiesta, and say it with me - FINALLY! After selling us a lame refresh of the old Focus that didn't even save them money.
Small cars I'd say 1/3 of the D3 are competitive, Ford, and only as of 2010/11.
Mid-size I'd say 2/3, GM and Ford.
Pinto? Vega? Escort? Omni? Cavalier? Caliber? Cobalt?
I don't think the D3 have ever really been known for small cars. They even keep changing the names!
I have to disagree with that statement. I bought my wife and two kids a 1982 Ford Escort. It was a demo with less than 10k miles. They drove it to over 120k miles without any major expenses. It was SOOO much better than the POC 1979 Honda Accord that cost me nothing buy money to keep running. Including an engine overhaul at 60k miles. Body parts for the Escort were so much cheaper also. It was well into the 1980s before Honda got their act together. I did like my buddies 1986 CRX. Fun to drive. Probably the last of the decent Honda's. I know the 2010 Accord is a noisy POC.
Changing names is like admitting defeat - the kept needing fresh starts. Cruze is yet another new name. They're also changing Aveo, again. Ford dropped Escort. Let's see what Chrysler does, but I doubt we'll see another Neon.
And a big part - perhaps the most important part - of "good ol' fashioned pride" is the satisfaction that comes from whipping the competition. Any athlete will tell you this.
Sorry, but I fail to see what's "unfortunate" & "shallow" about this. I guess you & I see the world differently.
Small cars mean small profits!
And, I would bet GM and Chrysler management agreed at the time.
Therefore, coupled with cheap gas prices until the 70's, its no surprise the US had to play "catch-up" to Japanese & European companies for 30 years, whose manufacturers had no choice other than to manufacture small, fuel-efficient cars if they wished to survive.
That was then, though, and this is now. There is no valid reason that I can see why US companies should not be able to go "toe-to-toe" with any manufacturer today.
I still worry that the D3 rely on cheap oil to truly thrive. Hemi this and that, sure, but what if gas hits $4 and stays there?
I'm more impressed with what Ford is doing with EcoBoost, plus their recent small car effort (Fiesta, Focus). It hedges their bets when their cash cows' (pickups) sales drop whenever oil spikes.
Chrysler has the Hemi and the Pentastar V6, but all their eggs still seem to be in the "oil is cheap" basket.
GM is somewhere between the two. Volt is cool but won't do much volume, Cruze Eco is a good idea but why not Eco all Cruzes? Hyundai managed.
Toyota is salivating, on the sidelines, just waiting for $4 oil. Their Prius V will be a sure-fire hit if gas goes up. Nothing would help them more, nothing.
Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem?
I had that problem with some of our printers - they put a chip in the toner cartridge, so the printer freaks out if you use a generic or refill even the OEM cartridge.
I have no doubt things like this are done to eliminate competition and establish a monopoly.
We stopped buying those printers.
The Magnussen-Moss warranty act says a warranty must be respected as long as replacement parts meet OEM specs, so the OEM have to at the very minimum share what those specs are. At least!
Any how, the Cobalt wasn't that small either. They're actually longer than our Subaru Forester.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20110214/BLOG06/110219943/1489
He went from a position of "stop driving" them to "safe to drive" last week, both quotes.
But the Cruze is pretty big compared to its predecessors so it may very well be bordering on mid-size now.
I don't even hear compact sedan used that much anymore. Now anything below midsize I've heard people just all group into small sedan.
We were recently in Buffalo, NY and had an 11 Camry as a rental. It was smooth and quiet and got us 34mpg on the highway.
My problem with it was that it is somewhat bland...no personality at all; however, it did its job for us well, and had room for 5 when we needed it. Utilitarian, for sure; however, not sure I'd rush out to buy one....it drastically needs a re-design!
according to YouGov/Brandindex, a company that tracks customer perception of popular brands, Toyota saw a sizeable boost in its reputation in the days following the announcement.
Let's see the impact on sales. There could have been Toyota intenders on the sidelines who were motivated by this news and feel OK buying now. There's still half of February left, so we should see at least some effect this month, the full effect in March.