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The UAW and Domestic Automakers
We're certainly in a time of transition for the UAW and the domestic manufacturers. Will there be a win-win resolution for both sides? Is there a middle ground, or is the final result going to be the end of one or more of the manufaturers, or the end of the union?
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But job banks and flexibility restrictions... that's just dumb.
They have to make concessions in all aspects of their contract, given the current market. But if I were them, I'd make the strongest concessions in the job banks and inflexibility rules. Those don't do anything towards giving hard workers a fair deal... quite the opposite. At the same time, they can't make heavy concessions on wages and benefits. That would negate the point of their existence, and no one ever voluntarily agrees to that.
They have in their favor the fact that transplants' wages aren't bad - it wouldn't kill the unions to drop their wages closer to those levels, unlike the ones Delphi asked for. Second, public opinion is affected by Delphi's stupid moves (in a PR sense). The news articles went like this: Delphi asks for wage cuts; Delphi gives nice golden parachutes; Delphi asks for drastic wage cuts; Delphi gets really big golden parachutes. If it looked like everybody was losing, maybe they could get away with it, but...
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On the other hand, if the UAW has decided that the Big 3 are going down no matter what, they're going to squeeze everything they can get out of them. I have a feeling that's the case.
I thought that the deadline got extended to Jan.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20051123-1406-delphi-uaw.html
story
Do they figure out a way to reach an agreement or do you think the whole thing is going to have to start from scratch?
anyone?
for all the debate about the UAW that went on in the "can GM survive ..." discussion, this is pretty dead.
Maybe we'd only get responses to our posts if they offended someone else?
I think American Manufactoring and other company's atleast deserves fair trade, level playing field, real currency values, etc.
I guess President Bush doesn't want that. Perhaps the Big 3 didn't line his pockets enough ????
Obviously Big Oil, and the Airelines did.
Bush made it clear that he isn't going to a damn thing.
I agree it's the Big 3's fault in many ways. They haven't made the cars people want.
The ones that will be hurt the most will be Americans:
The UAW active and retirees, Big 3 Management, Auto suppliers, and many other area's. I guess we will see the biggest unemployment numbers, since the 29' Crash. I guess history does really repeat itself, because Black Tuesday might make a comeback.
I suppose president Bush slept through that Chapter in American History
rockylee
That's what it's going to take to fix the US economy and base for the FUTURE.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Lot easier it say that domestic manufacturing needs to learn to compete. Who in US can complain about a company that cannot compete? We are based on the strongest and smartest survives.
Harry
President Bush, Bill Clinton or the Pope (past or present) have nothing to with what the company or that company does now or 10 years from now ....
Let's be honest .. you can't produce any product nowadays unless you're competitive .. that means you can't pay someone $40+ an hour to build vehicles that are in a $20 or a $30 an hour business .. those days are over, and have been for the last 7 or 8 years.
When the UAW had their Ford meetings 4/5 years ago, the union "negotiated" away the right for Ford employee's ability to purchase their other Ford products on the "A" plan .. that means Volvo, Jag, Mazda, etc etc -- what kind of negotiation was that.?? .. "lets cut our nose off to spite our face" - that's what that's called ..l.o.l... probably missed 45,0/60,000 purchases a year - but the UAW sure showed Ford, or rather they "showed" their members they had some horsepower - or .. what were they showing .??
I have no problem with anybody making a good wage for their job ... but having people running around filing grievances, having employee's with hangnails getting 60% of their pay because they can't do their job (or anyone else's) is absurd ....
Did you know that in most UAW plants they have area's that are filled with leather lounge's, TV's, books, DVD's, snack bar area's that the employee's entertain themselves in for 8 hours a day .. thats because the the UAW has convinced the Big 3 it's cheaper than putting them on Workmans Comp and cheaper than taking the daily fines, and with the big 3 that's millions of dollars a day .. but we don't know, cuz' the UAW won't allow it ...
Believe me .. I have nothing against unions in the long hall with all of the wonderful things they have done in the past, especially with me coming from an Union town and having family and friends in the Electricians, Teamsters and of course the UAW unions ...
But let's be real here .. when your best Union negotiation issue is "allowing" the workers to have a $7 deductible on prescriptions vs a zero figure is not negotiating .. having the workers spend an extra $125 a month to insure their wife and 3 kids on Major Medical certainly isn't the sword of Damaclese .. but the UAW sure wants their members to think it is ...
Dealers profits have been cut back on most models by 20/40% - but still sucking it up to stay alive ... but the UAW sure wants to make sure they promote their view that they can save and promote their members ... where are they going to promote them to, the unemployment line.?
You want the UAW to stay alive with all of it's "existing" members.? .. then start having some meetings to promote some major cost cutting, start changing some minds and not with pathetic scare tactics ... it's ok to pay for "some" of your Life insurance, it's ok to pay for "some" of your family benefits like dental work, it's okay to pay for "some" of your eyeglasses .. it's okay to pay for "some" of your major medical and it's even okay to "not" get paid $18 an hour to sweep floors ..... this program should have been instituted 10 years ago .. how many minds will they change now....??
George Bush ....? how about George Washington.? ..l.o.l.... Rocky - we need to get you out more, you're not even in the zipcode .. that must be some aquarium you live in ....
Terry
Terry
What does George Washington have to do with anything ? Yeah he had "Horsepower" with 4 legs ! :P
My point is Terry, President Bush could make changes to hold the Asians accountable for the undervalued currency problem. He also could be a leader and reform the language in the trade treaty's i.e. child labor, human rights, etc etc.
The Bottom Line is president Bush is a greedy CEO, who happens to be president. If you didn't line his pockets with cash, you're not going to be helped. I trust him, about as far as I can throw him. As far as our previous president's and congress, some of the stuff they've done to my country makes me puke. I might live in a aquarium, but it does have windows.
I guess I should be like everyone else, "like a cow going down the conveyor belt waiting to be slaughtered" and do or say nothing. :P
Terry, I have traveled around this great country. I however am not going to take the path to the conveyor belt. I'm going to take the opposite path the other's are taking when the road (Y's)
Well besides that, the rest of what you said I can somewhat agree with.
Rocky
Do not want to get in the middle of this one but I have been in a lot of UAW assembly plants and never saw a room like this. Sure you were not down the street in a private business? All the "free" time areas I have been at at plants are usually a big open area, a bit grungy with a lot of newpapers. Also the cafe food was marginal as food goes.
If you want to be specific .. the plant #1 is used for what they call: TWC (Transitional Work Place) and thats used for those they pay a 40 hour week for instead of keeping them home and paying all those high dollar WC fines for ... in the meantime they kick-back, read the mags, do some lunch, watch a little Jerry Springer and play some TW games (Tiger Woods) ... not to be confused with GW (Guaranteed Workplace) .... so what else would you like to talk about.?
Terry.
Accountable for what ....?? .. accountable because we "allow" the UAW to cost you and I money ..?
I guess you were asleep in business 101 ...
Terry.
I've been to quite a few myself .... Chryslers Jeep plant in Toledo, Fords Atlanta plant, Dearborn, Avon/Lorain, the Brookpark 1 and 2 plants, Charlotte, Parma GM plant, Lordstown, Bowling Green and the ol' Arlington Hts plant in Texas .... other than that .....
If you want to be specific .. the plant #1 is used for what they call: TWC (Transitional Work Place) and thats used for those they pay a 40 hour week for instead of keeping them home and paying all those high dollar WC fines for ... in the meantime they kick-back, read the mags, do some lunch, watch a little Jerry Springer and play some TW games (Tiger Woods) ... not to be confused with GW (Guaranteed Workplace) .... so what else would you like to talk about.?
I guess I misunderstand your first point. You said most all UAW plants have some area's that are full of leather chairs and union members sitting in them all day. Now I think what you are saying is that of all the UAW plants you have been at one has a room like this that is for the UAW folks that are laid off and get 95% pay for doing nothing. My fault. I really read what you said as most UAW plants have some kind of extravagent relaxing room the workers use.
I like I said before, belong to a union (not UAW) and don't see how I being a member of one hurts anyone else. :confuse:
Rocky
Every time I bought something produced by a union that had unreasonable demands (remember the 90% pay for laid-off workers? remember can't close plants with 10 years notice or something like that?) it has raised the cost of the automobiles, in this case. That has now come to bite the workers on the rump. They're probably going to play Delta pilots as they get their wages lowered. Trouble is they drove their own companies for whom they worked into noncompetitive positions vs. the currency enhanced, no pension problem, no health care high cost import cars.
And the managements of all 2.5 companies greatly helped with their ineptitude in negotiations as well as in management.
Having toured a GM plant 15 years ago roughly, I saw the workers who slept, played games. I did NOT see a leather-chaired lounge with a bar and TV set and computer games. Note: that plant has been razed. I believe the work went to a plant in NY and somewhere else. This was a plant where one of the (then) overpaid workers sold compressors he stole by slipping them out the dock somehow. Poetic justice. Now if only management could receive the same justice they have brought onto the workers, with help from the Unions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Is the UAW cutting off its nose to try to help its face?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Personally, I think the old social contracts of yesteryear (pensions, social security) are not going to be able to survive the brave new world of the future (high health care, globalization). Better to give everyone 401K's and/or pension "accounts" (i.e. here a set amount of money in your account every month).
Rocky
401's are all that will be left soon. With the new government requirements coming all US companies will be dropping the pensions as fast as they can. The rules are too restrictive and suck away too much cash from the bottom line.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Management at GM could be a foreman on the line at 6th level or it could be the chairman.
Lets assume you are talking about the unclassified level which is above the 8th level. An 8th level will be normally a college grad with a bunch of college grads under him (6th, 7th or 8th). He/she has a company car that is considered part of his job to drive and evaluate. They are qualified for a bonus based on his level/salary and may in a good year hit $7500? Not sure but maybe about 10% of their salary. (All levels are eligable but have a lower percentage of salary available). So that is the 8th level.
The next levels are unclassified (unless a technical 9th) and are considered management. A much larger portion of their income is bonus. Their base salary is maybe 10% to many multiples more than the 8ths. (Wagoner makes I believe about $2,000,000 base salary but it drops off quickly after that, the people working for him make about $750K base). This info is in the annual reports. The bonus percentage is based on a few factors-How well the group they work in does relative to helping the company make money, individual performance and overall company profitabity.
All the above is the similar for any large company.
In a very good year an unclassified can make from 50% orf their salary to double or more of their salary depending on their unclassified level. The person really responsible for the company (Wagoner) can make double (see the annual report). Those at lower levels have a smaller percentage possible.
OTOH, I have a cousin whose husband has worked for GM for 20+ years. He started out in Tarrytown, NY (I think they made the "dustbuster" minivans there). When that plant was closed down they moved to Oklahoma City, where they've been for the past 10-15 years. That plant, to my knowledge, has made the Malibu/Cutlass and now produces the Trailblazer/Envoy/Ascender.
Guess what? Now the OK City plant is slated to be closed, and it looks as if they will be moving again, this time to Moraine, OH -- if he is even able to transfer.
I feel bad -- they've established a nice life for themselves in OK -- one daughter went to school at OSU while the other daughter is still in grade school. Now they have to uproot themselves and move again.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
401K's aren't a secure fool proof retirement fund. :mad:
Rocky
I am hearing the strike threats daily in our local media on the part of Delphi. It will be bad if it comes down to that. BUt I don't think the UAW is going to "get it" without having tried to use a strike as the big club.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
401K's aren't a secure fool proof retirement fund.
401K's are not meant to be a guaranteed investment. The people at Enron who lost out on their 401K's did so because they invested too much in the company stock, not because the 401K's went down the tubes. If you make bad investments, there's no mommy or daddy to make it all better.
We have social security already, we don't need another government guaranteed retirement fund. They are already spending too much money anyway.
The only foolproof fund like that is a cowardly corporate golden parachute. I wonder how much Lutz or Wagoner would receive...
Rocky
As with all investments, you make your decisions and take your chances.
I agree diversification is probably the best way to have a 401K. It however has more risk than a roulette game in Vegas.
GM just announced that GM employees no longer have to buy any GM stock in their 401's.
I have no idea what you are talking about. 401's usually invest in the stock market which has been the best place to invest long term. roulette games have at least a 50% chance you are going to lose everything. To lose everything in the stack market is very hard to do(unless you invest in on e stock that may go under)
Some employees are given stock in their company and have restrictions placed on sales. In this case the employee only loses paper money if it goes in the toilet as they haven't invested anything.
Rocky, I have no idea what you are talking about here. No one forces anyone to buy GM stock except the very highest execs in the company ( I think like the top 50) and that is to assure that they share the pain if the stock goes down. Even the 401 does not require GM stock anymore.
I am going off what my pops told me. His supervisor said it's not forced but quietly expected if you want a good review.
Rocky
Sorry, completely untrue. Classified managers/engineers/PR/bookmakers, etc.(8th and below) have in no way any force or twisting of arms or any expectation to buy stock.
Unclassified directors have absolutely no force on them to buy GM stock. NONE, nada. The only ones who have to are at the very top.
United Way used to be that way and perhaps there are some pockets out there but do not let HR know that there is any arm twisting going on with the classified employees. GM can get in trouble if employees are "forced" to contribute to a charity. Now the unclassified's do have some unofficial requirements to contribute. But it is not that high of a $ amount. No where near tithing!!
Rocky
It was the article saying that GM wouldn't match 401(k)s anymore. I swear it mentioned that they were dropping a requirement that 4% of it be invested in GM stock. I'm not sure about that number at all.
I checked the website just now but didn't see the article.
Rocky
Rocky
What's untrue? I am just stating facts. At least here in Detroit.
True, there is no requirement for GM stock buying by anyone at GM anymore except for the top execs.