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Weight distribution? Sounds more like inept engineering by GM. Of course they also designed a Chevy Baretta or Corsica that required jacking up the engine to replace 3 of 6 spark plugs. Many other instances of poor engineering.
Try to remember to replace batteries in our vehicles no later than the 4-year mark. Cheap insurance against getting stranded and maybe at the most inconvenient time. If a normal car battery were to cost say $1,000, then understand maybe being a hero, postponing for as long as possible. But, with batteries maybe around the $100 mark, it is not a big deal to replace every 4 years, or sooner. What is $100 when a weekly fuel fill-up might be $60 or more. Or, a dinner for two on Saturday night is say $70. $100 is chump change.
I wonder why they put it back there on the Riviera and DeVille? On my 2000 Park Ave, which is on the same basic platform, it's under the hood, in the usual spot.
Now my 2000 Intrepid's battery was in a bad location...down in the lower part of the front right fender, in front of the wheel opening. I've heard that you can get to it from under the hood, but all the intake stuff that was in the way looked too hard to take off without breaking something. So, when I changed its battery as a precaution, at the 5 1/2 year mark, I ended up having to jack up the car, take the tire off, take off an access panel at the front of the wheel well, and change it from there.
Of course they also designed a Chevy Baretta or Corsica that required jacking up the engine to replace 3 of 6 spark plugs. Many other instances of poor engineering.
I wonder, did anybody else ever have that problem with their transverse-mounted V-6, or just GM? I would think that most V-6 minivans would be hard to get to, but perhaps not?
For newer cars with all the additional electronics, you're right, it's better to do them sooner than later.
This is factually incorrect on so many levels, I can't let it go.
It wasn't the "Baretta" (sic) or Corsica, it was the V8 Monza of more than a decade earlier, and it was one spark plug IIRC although I am less certain of that than I am that it was absolutely the Monza V8 model only (not four or six-cylinder versions).
The battery being someplace else than under the hood is not only good for weight distribution, it's good for keeping the battery lasting. Heat kills more batteries than cold. Next month my Cobalt is 60 months old on its factory battery. Note to xrunner: you still jump the car from under the hood even with the battery in the trunk.
I replaced the battery only once and it was 16 years old when I sold it. :shades:
For some reason though, I seem to recall some transverse-mounted V-6 where they had to loosen the motor mount and tilt it forward a bit to get to the spark plugs in back? Dunno which engine it was, though.
As for annoying spark plugs, the worst that comes to my mind is the #2 plug on any Pontiac V-8 with air conditioning. The compressor pretty much obscures the whole plug, so I don't know how they get to it. I wonder if they have to loosen the compressor?
I seem to remember my Granddad jacking up Grandmom's '85 LeSabre and going through the wheel opening to get to some of the plugs. I also did that with my Mom's '86 Monte Carlo. They might have been accessible from under the hood, but it just seemed easier to get at them through the wheel well.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_remove_the_rear_spark_plugs_on_a_Beretta_wi- th_a_V6
I actually owned a V6 Beretta for five years and 74.9K miles and I'd like to think I'd have heard of this issue--but I haven't. I've heard 'they're a b****', but never the OP's 'having to...' line.
OK. Battery in the trunk of a sports car where ideal 50-50 weight distribution is desired. But, a Deville having a battery under rear seat for weight distribution? Anybody aware of Deville drivers ever attempting spirited driving on the twisties? No. More likely these drivers drive their cars as merely appliances to get from point A to point B.
Ever drive an empty small pickup? There's a reason they had rear wheel only ABS.
Poor engineering is alive and well in Japan also. My 2008 Nissan Frontier developed a leak in the windshield washer reservoir. You have to remove the right front fender to get to it. And It was not covered by the BtoB warranty. So $300 later, I am a wiser buyer. Nissan gets scratched off my list of automakers.
The service people had no logical explanation on how that could happen with the tank completely enclosed.
As nose-heavy as FWD cars can be, having the battery in the back might still be useful for balancing things out somewhat. It might make for a slightly better ride, moving a bit more weight to the back.
My 2000 Park Ave feels like it hits the bumps pretty hard with its front axle, and then the rear feels like it bounces more than it should. I don't know how its weight distribution is, compared to my old Intrepid, but I don't remember the Intrepid doing that. The Park Ave is about 400 lb heavier though.
I think the weight distribution for many FWD cars is around 65% front, 35% rear, whereas with RWD cars, it's often around 55% front, 45% rear.
However, I'm sure weight distribution doesn't tell the whole story. Many FWD cars have the bulk of the engine either on top of, or even a bit forward, of the front axle. With just about every RWD car I've had, I think the front of the engine is about lined up with the front axle, so the bulk of it is aft. So even if they are heavily weighted toward the front axle, the bulk of the weight is at least within the wheelbase, rather than being front-heavy.
Years ago, had a Pontiac Firebird with air conditioning. During winter, when else, the heater core which was inside the car failed, coolant dripping on front floor. Needed to replace it.
Had Firebird shop manual and it had detailed instructions on replacing heater core including how to get at hoses at firewall. To get to hoses, instructions were to take off right front fender. Insane engineering. The manual did not say that hood had to also be taken off. Did that, then had to do something through front grille to get at a bolt or two for front fender. Then, finally was able to take off front fender and get at 2 hoses going through firewall.
That was not all. To get at heater core inside the car under right dashboard, had to remove A/C ductwork. But, to get at some of ductwork, had to remove center console.
Of course, heater core failed in January here in northern Illinois.
And, heater core was NOT the only poor engineering I experienced on this Firebird.
I suspect the protection of the battery from high temperatures is a prime reason. WEight distribution has to be helped. But it costs more to run the power lines to the battery in the mid and rear locations, so there must be benefit.
I know the battery on my 98 leSabre under the hood had a sweater around it. It was a coat of 1/2 in or thicker foam that appeared to be there to help protect the battery from quick heat soak from the engine after the car was shut off.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When I had the spark plus extraction issue on my Expedition, I was told if the heads needed to be removed, the whole body needed to be lifted off the frame. I was quoted like $2,500 just to pull one cylinder head. Thankfully they were able to extract the spark plugs the broke off and that still cost me nearly $1k for new plugs and one coil pack.
I've heard those gen Firebird/Camaros are a nightmare to get to the rear plugs.
I know many transverse mounted v6's require loosening motor mounts to rotate the engine enough to get access to the back plugs.
It would be interesting to see very well designed and controlled tests on heat under the hood of various cars. All tested under very similar conditions - outdoor temperature, humidity, full-sun or heavy overcast day, run fixed amount of laps on closed circuit such as Daytona, Taladega, Indy, etc at same speed for all cars, say 70 mph. Maybe 10 lap runs after each car is brought up to normal engine operating temperature. Of course, a number of temperature sensors under the hood and connected to computer in car and doing data collection and charting.
Then, find out which car makers do the best job of not only minimizing heat generation under the hood, but dissipating it as
I wonder if that would've also applied to any car on the Fox platform, or if there was just something special about the design of the T-bird/Cougar versions? Maybe the dashboard was just different enough to make it more annoying, perhaps?
I think one reason cars are so hard to work on these days, is that they probably build them to go together as quickly and cheaply as possible on the assembly line? But, what initially gets built quickly and cheaply, can't always be taken apart quickly and cheaply to get to various components.
New cars are actually quite cheap to buy nowadays, when you factor in inflation, and the the amount of content, safety features, etc. But, I think we ultimately have to pay for that low cost up front, when things do finally start to break.
Heat definitely kills batteries, the cold (unless the battery were to freeze) usually just reduces output and capacity.
I think one of the reasons batteries don't last particularly long in my SUVs is due to how much idling I do in the summer heat. Launching and retrieving the boat and jetski means I might idle an hour in 90+ degree heat. Heat definitely builds up quick under the hood while parked all day outside on black asphalt then add a running engine with the a/c running full tilt. I bet having the battery out of the engine compartment would extend it's life by quite a bit.
I had a battery die in the Expedition two years ago this July and it was a hot day. Battery could only muster a click.
The hours required sounds about right. My brother in law used to have a late 90's F150. He was laid off from work in late '08 and the next week the heater core went out. So, he dug into it himself to safe some cash. It took him 2 days. IIRC he said the job called for about 8. I guess it was a nightmare, but he did say after he got it apart, there was a much easier way (likely the correct way) to do it and if he would have known about it, it would have saved him a bunch of grief.
But yeah, nobody wants to smell the sweet aroma of antifreeze in the car. That generally is the smell of money;)
It probably would have been worth it to buy it and pay to have it done, as I doubt the heater core in that car would have been much different from the one in my Malibu. But, that winter was the coldest I could ever remember, so the last thing I wanted was a car with no heat!
American car (companies) are getting slammed in the EU.
"Americans focus on General Motors' troubled Opel unit and Ford's losses on the continent, but every mass-market brand in Europe faces huge challenges.
Hammered by shrinking sales and economic crisis, it's likely some won't survive in their current form.
Fiat might be in the worst shape of all, if not for its control of Chrysler."
Shrinking Europe confounds carmakers (Detroit Free Press)
So does my 1999 Wrangler. My 318ti and Mazdaspeed have underhood batteries totally enclosed by plastic boxes; the Mazda's battery box even receives a constant flow of cool air whenever the car is moving as an air duct runs from the intercooler's hood scoop to the battery box.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The E24 7er is a particularly horrible job; you have to remove almost all the interior trim from the front sets forward- including the center console and the A-pillar trim.
I had a Ford mechanic R&R the core in my 1984 T-Bird Turbo Coupe and he charged less than $500 IIRC. He used some secret technique. I didn't ask, I just knew I had a functioning heater in my work beater for not too many $$$
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
On the 1979 R-body, Chrysler tried something called a "ThermoGuard", where they actually put the windshield washer reservoir in a thin enclosure that surrounds the battery, on the sides that face the engine compartment. I'm not sure how well it worked, though, and IMO it makes the battery hard to take out. So in both of my '79 New Yorkers, I simply took the things off. Of course, that now means I have no windshield washer capability, but it's not like those cars are constantly getting driven in bad weather, or getting the windshields mucked up, anyway.
I ltook back out the new thermostat not liking the 195 engine temp and only put the cooling fans fuse in from April to Nov. With the new h2o pump I should have put the thermo back in at start of winter but lost track of where i put it. 120 F engine doesn't give much heat on 25 F mornings. The seat heater comes in handy.
Took a look at the DeVille front brakes and the pads have about .2 inches left. I sprayed some liq wrench on the bolts and tried to break them loose without any luck. The brakes are like the '98 Mustang, with springs under rubber boots over the caliper pins allowing the caliper to slide. The 15mm bolt wouldn't turn with just a wrench and a hammer. I don't want to take the caliper completely off to just put new pads on. I think there is threadlock epoxy on the caliper bolt threads. The pads are evenly worn inside and out so the caliper is not seized like the Mustang was last year. trying to find out if I'm trying to loosen the right bolts.
Oh, no doubt. My Malibu needed a parking light replaced under warranty, and it required removal of the front bumper fascia! When I mentioned that to a Chrysler Service Manager, he said, 'I'd like to laugh, but we have product like that too'.
I used to have a lot more 'pride of ownership' than I have for probably twenty years. Cars are so much more appliance-like than before then IMHO.
Not to mention that's not very good for the engine to run that cool.
I didn't keep it that way for long, though. Maybe a month or so.
My 2000 Park Ave has a digital readout for the temp, and it usually seems to top out at 176 degrees.
Looks more like European automakers are getting slammed. Our ties may be tenuous. GM needs to dump Opel. Who cares if the fat cat family that owns PSA go bankrupt? VW probably has the best World wide product distribution with the US market virtually untapped by them. They are number one in two of the largest emerging markets Brazil and China. I was really surprised by the Fiat Chrysler marriage. I thought Fiat was all but dead at the time. The EU is suffering from their Socialist programs same as we are. None of which are sustainable forever.
That's assuming the temp gauge is accurate. They likely aren't. When I was having trans trouble with my Suburban, the tech plugged in a scanner which I remember seeing 185 for water temp while my dash gauge showed over 200.
Right. Our current regime bailed out the bankrupt American car company GM and illegally gave haircuts to bondholders and special deals to unions at the expense of we taxpayers. So in "Buying American cars, what does it mean" what does it mean that we taxpayers bailed out a company that was failing massively over the last couple decades. There was a better alternative.
Sometimes they're still not *too* hard to get to. I remember replacing a headlight bulb on my 2000 Intrepid, and it was fairly simple. Just take out two really long bolts, and the whole assembly would pull forward, and all the bulbs in it would just twist out. The taillights were pretty easy to get to as well, although I think I did have to pull a piece of trunk trim loose to get access. The only light I remember being a real pain was the license plate light. It was a tight squeeze, and you had to almost be ambidextrous to reach it.
This happens in cities all over the country - it's part of the cycle of boom, bust, regrowth.
Here in Boston, the neighborhoods of Charlestown, the North End and the South End have had this renaissance in the past 15 years or so. Now South Boston is the new hot area and Roxbury and East Boston are both seeing some interest.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd