Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

andre1969

In a bit of a defense, I think that 4-cyl version of the LaCrosse is the eAssist "light hybrid" model. So yeah, the majority of them probably are the V-6 model.

Here's the cheapest V-6 LaCrosse that our local Fitzmall dealer group has. MSRP of $38K, but an internet price of $33,764. Premium I, FWD, V-6, leather, sunroof, and Onstar.

For comparison, the cheapest Chrysler 300 MSRP's for $31,000 but is internet priced at $26,369. It does have leather, and the 8-speed automatic mated to a 3.6 V-6. But no sunroof, no nav.

uplanderguy

Personally, I think the Impala is better looking than the LaCrosse

Something I noted at the auto show, was that there is no way a protective side molding will be offered on the Impala, the way the upper bodyside creases fall and with the lower-door indentations. The upper model has a chrome side molding very low where it won't do diddly for ding protection. Sheesh. I made sure I had the dealer look for an '11 Malibu with the side moldings, and I see they are still available on the '13 model Malibu. I hate that they're going away, and also feel most cars these days look naked without them...in the old days, with bright trim around the wheel openings and rockers, side moldings cluttered the styling but I don't think so anymore.

stever

The Lacey Act of 1900 was amended in '08 to include wood imports. Gibson had information that it was importing a protected wood and chose to ignore the information, and agreed to pay a fine in lieu of criminal charges. I would hope that the justice department wouldn't play favorites, but they let Gibson off the hook here. (NY Times)

Taylor Guitars had no problem figuring out the system and uses Madagascar woods from sustainably managed forests. Gibson just tried to game they system and got caught (twice).

gagrice

Some coincidence the raid came right after Obama's visit to India. And Fender was getting wood from same vendors and was not raided. Gibson settled rather than fight. Obama told Gibson to move their operation to Madagascar. More jobs sent overseas. So much for buying American. The law is phony.

PS
The 2008 amendment was only for plants.

stever

lol, wood's not a plant? The Times is wrong? The WSJ too?

I see logging trucks here every day. Let 'em use American hardwoods. :P

ateixeira

I think he meant production plant, as opposed to very small mom-and-pop guitar makers.

stever

Just cracks me up when people talk about imposing tariffs and buying American and then when someone sidesteps the rules and illegally imports something, the claim is made that it hurts American jobs. :-)

gagrice

There is NO American hardwood except Koa that is good for guitar making. And it is now protected. The beginning of the end for good acoustic instruments was when the Brazilians stopped selling US whole Rosewood logs. No other wood on earth compares. Indian Rosewood is crap by comparison. Mexican Rosewood is not bad. But I don't think it is available in the USA. My classical is from Mexican Rosewood made in Mexico. I love that guitar. I sold all my Martins made with Brazilian Rosewood. Electric guitars it makes no difference. Maple is good for them. It was all political.

PS
Sitka Spruce is the best sound board wood.

anythngbutgm

Sitka Spruce is the best sound board wood.

To strum, Yes. For finger picking, I'll take Cedar

Most of my guitars (2 Fenders, 2 Taylor, Martin D15 "Hog") are American Made. I also have 4 bass guitars that came direct from Carvin guitars in Cali...

My wifes Outback came from Indiana

lemko

This TV was different. The on/off switch wasn't your typical electromechanical switch, but was an electronic device activated via a touch pad that swung down diagonally on a little door on the console. Too late now. My wife wanted new carpet in the basement and the TV went out with the trash when I cleared the area for the new installation.

andre1969

the TV went out with the trash when I cleared the area for the new installation.

Kind of a shame to see that old electronic stuff go, but I guess there's really no market for it. Even nostalgia buffs probably aren't going to pay much for them.

Between my garage and my grandmother's place, I think we have something like 5 tv's that don't get used anymore. There's an ancient sucker out in my garage, that my roommate says is from the late 40's. Plus, an early 80's Phillips or Magnavox 25" console that one of my coworkers gave me back in 1999. Over at my grandmother's there's my old 19" Toshiba, some old '80's 25" console that my uncle bought back in the 1980's, and a 32" tube tv that I put out in her garage a couple years ago, figuring it would come in handy if we ever needed it again. Highly unlikely, because if one of the newer flat-screens ever breaks, there's no way in hell I'm going to lug that back-breaker back into the house!

Now that I think about it, I think Grandmom has an early 90's Zenith 19" portable sitting around, somewhere. Used to be in her bedroom, but she hadn't watched it (or rather, in her condition, listened to it) in years. Dunno if my Mom got rid of it, or just packed it away somewhere.

That's one dangerous side effect of having too much storage space...there's too much temptation to just pack stuff away for when you "might" need it, rather than simply getting rid of it!

fintail

I've heard early VCRs are minor collectibles - seriously. My family had a top-loader Sylvania VCR from 1981 that lasted until 1996 - under constant heavy use from 3 kids. Its cheap replacement didn't last a third of that. A Sears brand ("LXi series") TV purchased at the same brand died around 1995.

Some early TVs have value, mostly stuff from the 40s, early color units, Predictas, or something in a designer console.

My grandma has a late 80s Daewoo TV in a spare bedroom. But even as she is within spitting distance of 90 years old, she has a Vizio flat panel unit in the living room.

andre1969

One of my friends has an old BetaMax...Lord only knows how old it is. I told him that he should definitely hold onto it. He's very anti-clutter, so I told him that I'd even be willing to store it for him it having it sit around was bugging him.

I had a few old VCRs still sitting around, but ultimately threw them out in the late 1990's. One was an old GE top loader that I bought in 1984. I think my Granddad helped me out with that, as well. It was getting to the point that it would eat tapes, wouldn't always record, and my then-wife had ripped the top off of it in one of her moods.

I bought a new tv, a Sanyo I think, 32" in 2000. By that time, VCRs were so cheap that they gave away a free one with the purchase of this tv! I didn't need it, so for awhile, I just let it sit, in the box, and used it as a prop to keep my bedroom door open, which was a little off kilter and would swing closed on its own. I think we gave it to my roommate's grandmother for Christmas.

fintail

There are weirdos who collect obsolete things - someone would want a working betamax I am sure. I have an uncle who collects old calculators and transistor radios, for example. Some of that stuff was made in the USA, too.

My mother has a VCR-DVD combo unit from around 2004 - but I think she has finally moved past tapes. All made in China now (maybe Korea or Taiwan if you are lucky), of course.

lemko

My parents had this old Magnavox VCR they bought around 1980 or so and the thing was nearly as big as the top of their console TV! It was also pretty heavy too!

fintail

Probably a metal case.

Here's a youtube video of the exact model we had - I remember the "wood", the "chrome" knobs, and the aux inputs on the front like it was yesterday. Even during malaise, some things were overbuilt. I don't even want to know how many high-inflation dollars my parents spent on it.

xrunner2

the TV went out with the trash when I cleared the area for the new installation.

Whoa. Don't know about your area/city, but here in my area of N Illinois it is illegal to toss out TV at curbside. In fact, the sanitation engineers doing the collecting will just leave it at the end of the driveway. A very prominent big box electronics store was, still might be, accepting old TVs for recycling. Took a number of those things there including a Sony Betamax HiFi VCR.

lemko

If the garbage men don't take it, the "scrappers" will. There are guys who go around the neighborhoods in pickup trucks on garbage night who grab stuff like old appliances and electronics left at the curb.

andre1969

Around these parts you have to either take your old tv to the dump, or call special/bulky trash. The regular trashmen who come by twice per week won't take it.

I think all electronics are that way, including VCRs, DVD players, stereo equipment, computers and monitors, etc. Which reminds me, I think we have a few old CRTs stuffed away here and there.

I have a feeling that, if I die prematurely, my heirs are going to be cursing me as they sort through all of my old belongings!

gagrice

You are correct most classical guitar makers use a fine grade of cedar for the top. I keep looking for a nice Taylor that someone no longer wants. They are probably the best acoustic guitar made in the USA right now. The best acoustic steel string guitar I currently own is a Yairi. Not up to my old 1950s-60s D28 Martins, but good sounding. And all solid woods, with ebony finger board. Made in Japan. Though my Sequoia was made in Princeton Indiana.

dieselone

Whoa. Don't know about your area/city, but here in my area of N Illinois it is illegal to toss out TV at curbside.

Same way here in central Illinois. Trash haulers can't take any electronics and in my neighborhood, the HOA would come screaming if I left a TV in the front lawn. They'll throw a fit if I leave my trash can out to long.

When I purchased a new TV a few months ago, it was big enough where I needed it delivered. Best buy hauled away my 35" Sony Tube and an old 27" RCA from the 80's I needed to get rid off. Really hated to let the Sony go. That was a nice TV from the late 90's. But it was just way to heavy to mess with, so to the recycle pile it went.

busiris

Best buy hauled away my 35" Sony Tube

Yes, that must have been a real "hernia helper"!

xrunner2

When I purchased a new TV a few months ago, it was big enough where I needed it delivered. Best buy hauled away my 35" Sony Tube and an old 27" RCA from the 80's I needed to get rid off. Really hated to let the Sony go.

Same here. Had a Sony 32 inch flat screen, very nice picture that was perfect, no problems. But, it weighed 165 pounds. Bought a 46 inch Samsung LED from a big box electronics store in Glenview, Ill a few years ago. They delivered the new 46 inch tv in a box, but more importantly, they hauled away the old Sony.

So now, what is the connection to buying American cars?

stever

So now, what is the connection to buying American cars?

Hm, you could have offered the manager $50 less and hauled the TVs yourself in your big Dodge Grand Caravan?

(If you had gotten a hernia moving the TVs, you could go to Mexico for cheap - medical tourism you know. ).

xrunner2

Hm, you could have offered the manager $50 less and hauled the TVs yourself in your big Dodge Grand Caravan?

OK. Thanks for getting us back to cars.

Test drove, extensively, vans 13 years ago. Dodge Caravan, Toyota and Honda Odyssey. The Dodge engine sounded and felt like a cement mixer. Not to mention the reliability concerns. Ended up with the Honda Odyssey, still have it as our UTILITY vehicle, and it has been great. A fine piece of engineering by Honda. As usual.

stever

I tried to buy an Odyssey in late '98 but the dealer made me walk, so we wound up with the Quest. My brother is on his second Odyssey (nothing wrong with the first one, an '05, just miled it up). His makes me want power sliders; great feature camping when you don't want to wake people up closing the doors late at night.

xrunner2

I tried to buy an Odyssey in late '98 but the dealer made me walk

Yes. The power sliders on Ody are great. Was Honda the first to offer these? On a tangent, our Chicago area is originator of sliders per White Castle. Which Frank Sinatra cherished years ago.

We had a Suburban for many, many years and it was getting tired. So, went to look at and drive 2000 models. Suburbans were OK, but way, way overpriced for utility compared to Ody, Caravan and Toyota. Test drove them all, so did wife, and we decided on the Ody. Hung onto the Suburban for a few more years since we have the garage and barn space. The Suburban hauled some very dirty things in those last few years. Like, many, many rolls of sod. Bales of straw. Etc.

stever

I had access to a '69 VW Bus back in my Krystal Hamburger days, LOL. The small town diners in N. Mississippi sold a form of "sliders". Oatmeal burgers, some of which were pretty tasty. The worst ones were floaters - they'd toss the patty into an inch of hot grease and when they were done, they'd float to the top.

We had, iirc, 9 bales of hay in and on top of the Quest one day. Made in Ohio btw (/topic - the van, not the hay).

Oh, no idea who came up with the power sliding doors. One of those foot operated power hatches would be great too.

lemko

...I believe only Chevrolet still offers the classic van tradesmen all know and cherish. Ford got rid of the Econoline and replaced it with the goofy Transit and Dodge vans have long since vanished in favor of the Sprinter with various marques names. My uncle had a 1967 Ford van I thought was pretty neat where the engine sat between the two front seats. It would get pretty warm inside that van as a result. He later replaced it with a new 1977 Dodge van which he put hundred of thousands of miles on in the next 20+ years.

robr2

IMHO, GM keeps the Chevy/GMC van around because they don't have their own European van to sell in North America.

The Opel/Vauxhall Movano sold in Europe is a rebadged Renault. Unless they can work out a deal with Nissan, GM will plod along with their 20 year old, smaller, less efficient design.

andre1969

It's amazing how long some of those vans stayed in the marketplace, relatively unchanged. The Dodge van, I think, went from 1971-2003. The Econoline went from 1975-2013. It got an aerodynamic restyle for 1992, but it wasn't all-new, but rather a heavy facelift. Sort of like the 1991 Caprice compared to the 1990, or the '92 Crown Vic, compared to the '91. And the Chevy van went from 1971-1996. I think the 1997 was a total redesign. I had often heard that the '71-96 was only offered with the 350 as its largest engine, which hampered its desireability in the Class-C motorhome, box truck, etc market, but Wikipedia does show the 454 as being offered, as well as the 6.2/6.5 Diesels which, IIRC, weren't exactly small engines.

My stepdad bought an '85 Chevy van. Initially, he wanted an Astro, but when he checked them out the Astro, even though it had the largest cargo area of the minivans, was still no match for a "real" van. And, the van was cheaper than an Astro at the time! He had these delusions of starting his own plumbing business but that never took off, so it was pretty much limited to towing his boat and such. It was such a stripper that it didn't even have air conditioning, so it could be a bit of a sweatbox in warm weather. Thankfully it was white, though. Ultimately he sold it to a friend, around 1998 or so I think. I believe it only had 20-30,000 miles on it.

andre1969

Does Ford of Europe have anything like the Sprinter, or the Movano? While the Transit seems like a good idea, I don't see it as a replacement for a "real" van like the old Econoline, but rather a reincarnated Astro or Aerostar.

Also kind of interesting that Nissan saw fit to start building their own interpretation of a van....that NV or whatever they call it. To me it looks like a cross between a pickup truck and a van. A long nose, but not quite enough to be a pickup, and tall, but not quite tall enough to be a "proper" van. Kinda ugly, but it probably gets the job done. I wonder how many of them they sell? I've actually been seeing quite a few of them around.

dieselone

It's amazing how long some of those vans stayed in the marketplace, relatively unchanged.

No kidding, kind of unfortunate too. I thought about getting a conversion van a while back. While AWD is offered on the GM vans, they never offered the 6 speed transmission. No way will I have a 5.3/4speed combo again. Just not enough torque/gear ratios for pulling a heavy load. Plus the 1/2 ton vans just aren't rated to tow what a 1/2 ton SUV can, which is a bit of a head scratcher to me. Plus the conversions are fairly expensive.

andre1969

I'm surprised they even offer half-ton vans. IMO, that's just an accident, waiting to happen. It's easy enough to overload a half-ton pickup...Lord knows, I've done it enough times with my '85 Silverado. I've been behaving with the Ram though. So far, at least.

gagrice

It looks like Ford will be bringing this Van to replace the E series van. It and the Transit are and will continue to be built in Turkey/Germany. GM has the last of the big vans Made in USA.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/09/05/replacement-for-ford-e-series-van-reve- aled/

gagrice

Plus the conversions are fairly expensive.

I kind of like conversions. I had the MB Sprinter conversion for a while. It got great mileage with the diesel engine. It was only tow rated for 5000 lbs. We still ended up staying in Motels so kind of a waste and a hassle finding parking spots it was LOOOOONG.

robr2

Does Ford of Europe have anything like the Sprinter, or the Movano?

Yes - the new full size Transit will be offered starting this fall.

Ford Transit

It will be available in 4 configurations, 6 wheelbases, 4 heights. It will offer both an Ecoboost V6 and a diesel 4 cylinder. It will replace the E series and it will be made in the United States - Kansas City to be exact.

As for the Nissan NV, it's is basically an extension of the Titan pickup line. It made more sense to modify the Titan and build it in Canton, MS to fully utilize the line instead of building a new line to build the Renault here to avoid the chicken tax.

gagrice

Will Ford bring the new large vans with windows like the Transit Connect, to avoid the chicken tax?

robr2

It and the Transit are and will continue to be built in Turkey/Germany.

Even Fox news has this one right. The article notes the new Transit will be built in Kansas City -not Turkey. Depending on the article noted, the Transit Connect will be built in either Turkey or Spain.

robr2

Will Ford bring the new large vans with windows like the Transit Connect, to avoid the chicken tax?

Our posts are crossing - the full size Transit will be made in America so it's not a factor.

gagrice

It looks like the MB Sprinter is made in USA along with the Nissan NV. The only one offering decent mileage would be the Sprinter Diesel. I got 25 MPG on the highway with my MB Sprinter conversion van. UPS and FedEx have a lot of them around here.

gagrice

the full size Transit will be made in America so it's not a factor.

I misread the Ford Transit news report. Big one built here, small one still coming from Turkey. And they say the new large Transit will have a diesel option. Should heat up the van competition.

Ford’s Struandale Engine Plant in Port Elizabeth, South Africa, will increase capacity by 31,000 engines a year of the 3.2-liter five-cylinder Power Stroke diesel that will be an option on the new 2014 Transit that goes on sale in the U.S. next year. It will be paired with a 6-speed automatic transmission built in Livonia.

http://www.freep.com/article/20121218/BUSINESS01/121218037/Ford-small-diesel-eng- ine-Transit

robr2

It looks like the MB Sprinter is made in USA...

It's not built in the United States. The cargo version is made in Germany, then disassembled and shipped to South Carolina for reassembly to avoid the chicken tax. I can understand why they do so - less than 17K Sprinters were sold in 2012. Ford sold 122K hence assembly in the United States.

UPS and FedEx have a lot of them around here.

As they do nationwide. They really don't have a choice in Euro style vans. The Transit and the new Ram ProMaster will get their share of the delivery market.

busiris

As cars get more and more like computers (and software), are the beginning to be sold like them?

http://blogs.motortrend.com/should-automakers-be-selling-beta-cars-28191.html#ax- zz2M8SC7S5v

ateixeira

That's not limited to just EVs by the way. Any car can have issues. Look at recent Ford product launches.

stever

A journalist is looking for proud owners of cars 11+ years old to ask why you love your car. If you love your old car and would like to share your story, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Monday, March 4, 2013 at noon PT/3 p.m. ET.

marsha7

"have fuel records from 1979 and we filled the tank on the farm with diesel for $1.57 per gallon."

You still have papers from 1979???...even the IRS can't go back that far...:):):)

gagrice

I just cleaned out a storage I have had since 1990. My records go back to when we bought the farm in 1976. I have started to shred a lot of old stuff. It makes good mulch around my trees. I have an industrial shredder that can take a dozen sheets at a time and make little bitty pieces. I got tired of paying $1700 per year for a storage and bought an 8 by 20 container. Should have done it a decade ago. Now I am finally getting organized. Have everything I own in one place. First time in 40 years.

lemko

Top 10 Reasons Life Was Better in the 1950s

stever

The writer obviously didn't grow up in the 50s as I did. Lousy schools (in the South), less crime my foot (my old man drove drunk a lot and the cops let him go because they knew him) and the "despite the racism, homophobia and extra racism" comment about sums it up. My folks always worked two jobs to put three kids through school.

Don't get me started about the smokers everywhere. Or about the rip-off mechanics who would put grease on the shocks to rob the senior drivers. Or about cars breaking down all the time.