Sales are considered quite brisk for the Genesis in this market. I'll post the numbers when I find them.
I'm more interested in what people are trading in on them.. I think it's a great looking car, but I don't think traditional Lexus or MB buyers will be the ones buying these. They may take a decent share of the $40,000 market, but I don't believe they will hurt Toyota. I believe people that may have considered a foreign brand but choked on the prices will look at this and think it's a bargan. Having the auto journalist praise it will give them confidence in their purchase. Unfortunately though since it seems auto journalist get to drive free rides from the mgfr's we can't see how many of them would actually buy one.
I did stop to look at one. Nice ride. Maybe someday, but I'm not in the state of mind to drop 40K on a Hyundai. There are a lot of things on my list in that range right now, (especially with bargan prices) that I like better, or even as well. I would not want to go a few years second guess myself about buying it. I trade often enough that I know I will lose money but I'd have to see the 2 and 3 year value of these before I'd take a leap of faith on one of these.
I agree and tend to think the target that will be drawn from is Caddy and Lincoln shoppers/owners.
I would take a gamble on $40K with their new take-back commitment...better than the competition at this point. Very good marketing technique and shows they stand behind their customers.
No way on earth! Trading a Caddy for a Hyundai ANYTHING would not just be a step down, it would be akin to falling down the Empire State Building's elevator shaft!
I agree and tend to think the target that will be drawn from is Caddy and Lincoln shoppers/owners.
Another thing that might happen is that the Genesis will keep owners in the Hyudai fold. People who have been happy with their Hyundais and Kias in the past, but are now in the market for a more upscale car, might otherwise move on to a Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, or whatever. But now the Genesis might keep them in the Hyundai family.
So even if it doesn't win over many Lexus et al buyers, it might keep some people from becoming Lexus at al buyers in the first place.
That is exactly what GM has failed to do over the last 30 years. They still got the old Buick & Caddy guys that are still alive. They just have not built much that appealed to us young guys... :shades: Toyota and Honda have done a good job at keeping the customer coming back. Sounds like Hyundai is doing the same. My sis loves her Tiburon. She had a little Chevy Cavalier coupe that fell apart before it was paid off. The Chevy dealer which she had bought it from would not even take it in trade. She was desperate and someone told her to try Hyundai. She did and will never go back to GM. GM has made an art of losing one customer at a time. That is one American brand I will not lose any sleep over folding.
So even if it doesn't win over many Lexus et al buyers, it might keep some people from becoming Lexus at al buyers in the first place.
I'd expect that a majority of buyers fall into this category... Probably a combination of the Japanese Big 3 luxury makes, more Lexus/Infiniti than Acura.
Well, the G8 GT bases for about $32K, and has the same hp. What remains to be seen is how well equipped the SHO is for $38K as opposed to the G8. The GXP is $38K but has the 401 hp eng.
Even the G8 is cheaper and with RWD, I assume the better performer. At around the same price, the G8 GXP is a lot more of a performer. The GT is about $2K cheaper and rated equal to the SHO.
But it is a real nice package. I liked the original SHO but the Suzuki engine had major problems. Looks like the new engine will be very capable and durable.
Even the G8 is cheaper and with RWD, I assume the better performer. At around the same price, the G8 GXP is a lot more of a performer. The GT is about $2K cheaper and rated equal to the SHO.
RWD vs AWD. I think we should see how the feature list compares also. I guess if you can have a 3 season car the G8 is fun too. Or by the time you get snow tires and wheels some of the price differential may disappear.
I liked the original SHO but the Suzuki engine had major problems.
I always thought it was Yamaha, not Suzuki, and I don't remember hearing about issues with it. Maybe the later ones with the V8 ('97-99 or something like that)?
I think the regular Taurus will be enough for my mom to drive around. I don't see myself in the market for a full-size sedan with a slushbox anytime soon. I think the safety features like forward collision warning and blind spot detection are going to be helpful as well.
I really like the Genesis, but I think they are a little optimistic about its competition, or not so much optimistic as miss-marketed. Like I said, I would cross-shop it with a G35/M35(7)/ES350/MKS/CTS/C280 (or whatever number the c-class is now) but I don't see it stealing sales from the 5 or 3 series, e-class, or bigger Audis.
You may be right about the Yamaha. Anyway, don't get me wrong, AWD is great and I prefer it. I was in a 330xi for 3 years and there was no comparison if you want bullet-proof traction. I could carry hilarious speeds into corners and the control never faltered. Unbelievable. Of course, with 365 HP's, you would need to be careful in the new SHO unless the chassis components are up to the performance of the engine.
I will actually favor the SHO over the G8 if the dynamics are similar.
My point was the pricing is a tad too high. It's a changing world regards to proper pricing. The D3 will need to understand that going forward.
I agree. It's no BMW, Audi or High-End Lexus...but it is direct comp with Caddy and Lincoln. With the new take-back agreement, I'm sure sales will continue to rise for this new player. At $36K, the V-6 is priced to steal sales from Detroit.
Unlike the SHO V6, the SHO V8's valve train was an "interference" design, one that is shared by many engines built today, meaning that the piston will collide with the valves if the camshaft or timing chain fails. Due to some cam sprocket failures, the engine acquired a reputation for potentially catastrophic failure.
Cam trouble
Soon after the introduction of the SHO V8, widespread problems with the cam sprockets began to surface. Ford had used a relatively unusual method, called "swaging", of affixing the cam sprockets to the camshafts. The cam sprockets were fastened to the hollow camshafts by forcing a metal ball which was slightly larger than the interior diameter of the camshaft through the center of the camshaft, thus expanding the metal slightly and creating a mechanical bond between the cam sprocket and the camshaft. This method proved to be inadequate, and thus on some engines, the cam sprocket could break loose from the camshaft and spin independently from the camshaft (or "walk"). This would result in the camshaft stopping and thus not activating the valves, allowing the pistons to hit the valves, ruining the engine. The preventive measure of welding the cam sprocket to the camshaft soon proved to be a fix for engines that had not suffered such a fate yet [1]. Another such fix is "pinning" the cam sprocket, or inserting a pin in the sprocket to keep it aligned on the camshaft. There were calls for Ford to provide a recall, though none ever happened, potentially because it was a limited-production vehicle.
Ok, I've had my troubles with interference engines as well, rebuilding one twice, and finally selling it, so I get it. Question though - if Yamaha built the motor, wouldn't the design weakness be more attributable to Yamaha than to Ford? Other than for Ford to "step up" and fix the failed motors, which would have been nice.
Absolutely, it would be attributable to Yamaha but since Ford made the decision, the cars are what they are. One more example of curiously bad decisions among the D3.
I am sure the new SHO will be far better reliability wise.
Ford isn't Honda. Like the rest of the D3 they have a customer be damned attitude once the vehicle is out of warranty even for known issues. This is why they've got perception problems even if they successfully restructure themselves. They are probably going to need at least 3 -5 years of trouble free quality history before people flock back.
Yeah right. I have never seen a Nissan go longer than 90k without major service done
Technically, I have to agree with you. My Mom & stepdad bought a 1991 or 1992 (I forget now) Stanza. Around 90,000 miles, the transmission started to go, although they were able to limp it to around 110-120,000 miles, when they sold it.
They replaced it with a 1999 Stanza. And wouldn't you know it, that damn thing dumped its transmission at 35,000 miles! However, the car now has about 278,000 miles on it, and never had anything else go wrong, just regular maintenance stuff. So I'd say it's more than redeemed itself! :shades:
lilengineerboy: I always thought it was Yamaha, not Suzuki, and I don't remember hearing about issues with it. Maybe the later ones with the V8 ('97-99 or something like that)?
There was a problem with the V-8 engine used in the final SHO. The exact nature of the problem escapes me, but it inevitably resulted in an expensive repair. It had the potential to completely ruin the engine, if I recall correctly.
I've not heard of any engine problems with the early SHOs. A co-worker had a brand-new 1992 SHO (dark green) and it was a very nice car. I wouldn't mind having one today.
The new SHO looks great. But then, so does the regular Taurus. Ford displayed the regular Taurus at the Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., auto shows, and it is very sharp...I can see this one as being a big success. As long as people have the money to buy one, of course...
This is where Ford is really succeeding. They have several things in the pipeline coming soon that make you stop and say "I have to take a look at that!!" I expect to see them increase market share. They'll be more limited by what the size of the total market is over the next two years than anything else.
The point about Ford customer service is well taken. Traditionally it has been awful. I have no idea if they've worked on that.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I didn't do anything much to my '99 Quest until ~125,000 miles when I decided to replace the plugs, belts, etc. I think that was premature. Still on the original timing belt at 130k. Not sure what you mean by a major service. I had some actuators replaced under warranty and the usual 30 and 60k service and replaced a CV-boot/axle.
Of course, mine was assembled in Ohio and has some Ford parts in it, so maybe that's why. :shades:
I've always bought GM cars. I have to admit though that many foreign cars almost got my money because some of them were honestly better. (I'm sorry, there is no American alternative to a WRX....I dont think the Cobalt SS is quite there). I continue to buy American though for two reason, I still like them and it keeps money here. Are foreign cars better? maybe to probably. Do Foreign car companies have factories here and employ thousands of American? Yes, but in these times, there has to something said for supporting American made goods. We can gripe about the quality, but if everyone here is out of work, no one is going to be able to buy any car...foreign or domestic
Do Foreign car companies have factories here and employ thousands of American? Yes, but in these times, there has to something said for supporting American made goods.
You realize you just contradicted yourself there?
Let me ask you this...which would you prefer to buy? A Toyota Camry designed and built in the US (out of likely some foreign content) but ultimately run by a guy in Japan? Or a Ford Fusion designed here but built in Mexico, though it is run by Alan Mually?
Me, I'd buy the Fusion, but I hate Toyota. If my sole desire was to pay as many Americans as possible and keep as much money here as possible, I'd buy the Caaa....I'd buy a Toooy....I'd find another Japanese brand built here to buy, I just can't bring myself to buy a To...Those.
Do Foreign car companies have factories here and employ thousands of American? Yes, but in these times, there has to something said for supporting American made goods.
You realize you just contradicted yourself there?
Let me ask you this...which would you prefer to buy? A Toyota Camry designed and built in the US (out of likely some foreign content) but ultimately run by a guy in Japan? Or a Ford Fusion designed here but built in Mexico, though it is run by Alan Mually?
Me, I'd buy the Fusion, but I hate Toyota. If my sole desire was to pay as many Americans as possible and keep as much money here as possible, I'd buy the Caaa....I'd buy a Toooy....I'd find another Japanese brand built here to buy, I just can't bring myself to buy a To...Those.
There was a number posted in here earlier that says the "T-company" employess 30,000 US workers, while "F-company" employees 240,000 US workers.
There was a number posted in here earlier that says the "T-company" employees 30,000 US workers, while "F-company" employees 240,000 US workers.
Might be so, but another question is, when you buy Car X, how much of that money goes into which economy and how fast, you know?
Well, Toyota engineers are typically paid a low base salary and then given an end of year bonus to bring them up to, or above, industry norms (this is why Toyota's announcement that it was cutting or reducing bonuses was particularly hard to swallow).
Engineers for the motown teams are paid a normal wage throughout the year, and occasionally given a merit increase an or bonus at the fiscal year end, depending on where they are in the payscale. Bonuses are taxed at a higher rate then base pay, IIRC.
Buying X car actually includes transportation, state and local sales taxes, property tax for the dealership, plus all the people that designed the vehicle and each component. So far, the Venza, Sienna and Tundra are the vehicles from "T" company designed on this continent. As Ford makes all these plans to bring over European models, there is still a considerable amount of work to make the vehicle suitable for the N/A market, so there is still a lot of desgin/engineering input.
I read last summer that Ford was closing a few N/A plants to retool them so they can make stuff other than SUVs or trucks. That will give them an Edge to Flex their manufacturing muscle by allowing them to Focus on the Fusion between manufacturing cost, location and efficiency. :P Sorry I kinda got on a roll there.
I read last summer that Ford was closing a few N/A plants to retool them so they can make stuff other than SUVs or trucks. That will give them an Edge to Flex their manufacturing muscle by allowing them to Focus on the Fusion between manufacturing cost, location and efficiency.
And when they're the last US Manufacturer standing, will they have a Fiesta? Or go on an Expedition? Maybe they ought to Explore the Taurus Constellation? If so they'd better bring some Rangers, or they might never Escape. :shades:
Well, Toyota engineers are typically paid a low base salary and then given an end of year bonus to bring them up to, or above, industry norms (this is why Toyota's announcement that it was cutting or reducing bonuses was particularly hard to swallow).
Engineers for the motown teams are paid a normal wage throughout the year, and occasionally given a merit increase an or bonus at the fiscal year end, depending on where they are in the payscale. Bonuses are taxed at a higher rate then base pay, IIRC.
If Toyota is making a profit and GM isn't, then maybe Toyota is *shudder* doing something right here..maybe their pay scale is more in line with making the product profitable.
".....If Toyota is making a profit and GM isn't, then maybe Toyota is *shudder* doing something right here..maybe their pay scale is more in line with making the product profitable."
And when they're the last US Manufacturer standing, will they have a Fiesta? Or go on an Expedition? Maybe they ought to Explore the Taurus Constellation? If so they'd better bring some Rangers, or they might never Escape.
Thank you for that. I feel like I have found my place in society now. I don't know what that says about you, however.
If Toyota is making a profit and GM isn't, then maybe Toyota is *shudder* doing something right here..maybe their pay scale is more in line with making the product profitable.
But no one is making a profit. And I agree, its good for Toyota in a Walmart kind of way...implying a bonus and getting people to work at below market rates. As a non-unionized master degree'd engineer, I'd be annoyed, but as my Safety Engineering Professor used to say, "What do I know?"
>If Toyota is making a profit and GM isn't, then maybe Toyota is *shudder* doing something right here..maybe their pay scale is more in line with making the product profitable.
>Problem is, as of today, Toyota isn't profitable. --cooter says
Maybe the government who allowed the foreign imports unbridled access to the markets here with quid pro quo needs to subsidize GM's higher cost structures for employing US UAW workers.
Or the US could encourage cheaper Indian and Chinese built imports to come into the country to give Toyota some competition. The government might add requirements for part time and full time employees and how they're covered for retirement and healthcare by Toyota. That would help the new fresh imports give us what we want, better cars at lower prices.
Let me ask you this...which would you prefer to buy? A Toyota Camry designed and built in the US (out of likely some foreign content) but ultimately run by a guy in Japan? Or a Ford Fusion designed here but built in Mexico, though it is run by Alan Mually?
Heck, I'm more inconsistent than that! I wouldn't buy a Toyota, yet I have Toyota stock!
Now, to be fair, if Toyota made something that I really wanted, I'd buy it. So it's not like I'm going anti-Toyota to make a statement or anything.
Bonuses are taxed at a higher rate then base pay, IIRC.
That's the dumbest thing I've seen here so far. Sorta like a union worker complaining because they take all his OT pay in taxes so why work it?
It is true that the more you make the higher the tax bracket, but in and of itself a bonus is not taxed any differently than normal wages. That is $100,000 in pay will pay the same taxes as $50,000 in pay and $50,000 in Bonus money.
It is true that the more you make the higher the tax bracket, but in and of itself a bonus is not taxed any differently than normal wages. That is $100,000 in pay will pay the same taxes as $50,000 in pay and $50,000 in Bonus money.
Sorry, I found the disconnect. Bonuses are taxed as supplemental wages (different then overtime) so 25% is withheld instead of whatever % is taken from a normal paycheck. Overtime is taxed as "wages."
>Bonuses are taxed as supplemental wages (different then overtime) so 25% is withheld
But the actual tax is whatever is computed for April 15 return. The amount of withholding doesn't mean anything other than you lose use of the extra tax money, if any, withheld until the tax form is filed and fulfilled.
>Bonuses are taxed as supplemental wages (different then overtime) so 25% is withheld
But the actual tax is whatever is computed for April 15 return. The amount of withholding doesn't mean anything other than you lose use of the extra tax money, if any, withheld until the tax form is filed and fulfilled.
We're in agreement sir, I was explaining why I was confused on the topic.
But you would be surprised at how many blue collar workers think that they do indeed lose all (most of) their OT to taxes. I hear this all the time. Yet they have no problem saying that someone who makes more in base pay than they should indeed pay more taxes. It's the same thing. You get taxed on how much you make reguardless of how the company distributed it to you.
But you would be surprised at how many blue collar workers think that they do indeed lose all (most of) their OT to taxes. I hear this all the time.
I think the problem is that a lot of people, blue collar or not, just don't look at the big picture on taxes. They just see what a hit they take on their paycheck when they work overtime, but don't realize that when it comes time to do their taxes, it all evens out. I remember a few years back, I ended up putting in 50 hours of overtime one week. Now I don't get time and a half for overtime, just my same hourly rate. But, let's say I made $50K per year. That's about $24 per hour, or ~$960 per week. Well, that one week I worked 90 hours, my pay would've been about $2160, and they took out taxes based on me making that every week. So for that one week, they taxed me as if I made about $112,000 per year!
However, if that was the only overtime I worked that year, my W2 at the end of the year would have shown me making $51200, instead of $50000. Since they took out too much in taxes that one week, I'd get a refund.
I have a feeling that most people just don't look that far into the future, or just don't fully understand taxes. And sometimes, I think the tax codes are written just to keep us working stiffs in the dark!
I could really screw them up by asking them to take 8 additional exemptions on their W-4. At least they would feel better about their pay check. By April 15th, they would have a heart attack!
Comments
I'm more interested in what people are trading in on them.. I think it's a great looking car, but I don't think traditional Lexus or MB buyers will be the ones buying these. They may take a decent share of the $40,000 market, but I don't believe they will hurt Toyota. I believe people that may have considered a foreign brand but choked on the prices will look at this and think it's a bargan. Having the auto journalist praise it will give them confidence in their purchase. Unfortunately though since it seems auto journalist get to drive free rides from the mgfr's we can't see how many of them would actually buy one.
I did stop to look at one. Nice ride. Maybe someday, but I'm not in the state of mind to drop 40K on a Hyundai. There are a lot of things on my list in that range right now, (especially with bargan prices) that I like better, or even as well. I would not want to go a few years second guess myself about buying it. I trade often enough that I know I will lose money but I'd have to see the 2 and 3 year value of these before I'd take a leap of faith on one of these.
I would take a gamble on $40K with their new take-back commitment...better than the competition at this point. Very good marketing technique and shows they stand behind their customers.
Regards,
OW
Another thing that might happen is that the Genesis will keep owners in the Hyudai fold. People who have been happy with their Hyundais and Kias in the past, but are now in the market for a more upscale car, might otherwise move on to a Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, or whatever. But now the Genesis might keep them in the Hyundai family.
So even if it doesn't win over many Lexus et al buyers, it might keep some people from becoming Lexus at al buyers in the first place.
Yes, they did!
SHO Time
365 HP EcoBoost engine. Modified suspension tuning. Should be a good time.
I think pricing is in the mid-30s.
I'd expect that a majority of buyers fall into this category... Probably a combination of the Japanese Big 3 luxury makes, more Lexus/Infiniti than Acura.
Regards,
OW
Relative to what?
That amouts to what, 12,600 for the year?? That doesn't amount to a whole heck of a lot.
But it is a real nice package. I liked the original SHO but the Suzuki engine had major problems. Looks like the new engine will be very capable and durable.
Regards,
OW
Considering the sales is holding steady since November. Not too bad.
Regards,
OW
RWD vs AWD. I think we should see how the feature list compares also. I guess if you can have a 3 season car the G8 is fun too. Or by the time you get snow tires and wheels some of the price differential may disappear.
I liked the original SHO but the Suzuki engine had major problems.
I always thought it was Yamaha, not Suzuki, and I don't remember hearing about issues with it. Maybe the later ones with the V8 ('97-99 or something like that)?
I think the regular Taurus will be enough for my mom to drive around. I don't see myself in the market for a full-size sedan with a slushbox anytime soon. I think the safety features like forward collision warning and blind spot detection are going to be helpful as well.
Audi must not be selling to Hertz anymore.
I think that "competition" might be slightly ambitious too.
Unless of course, that's about all they're making..from what I hear, they're selling pretty close to 100% of the ones they ship here, even now.
I will actually favor the SHO over the G8 if the dynamics are similar.
My point was the pricing is a tad too high. It's a changing world regards to proper pricing. The D3 will need to understand that going forward.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
It was a Yamaha engine in the original SHO. And I'm not aware of any major issues that engine had.
Unlike the SHO V6, the SHO V8's valve train was an "interference" design, one that is shared by many engines built today, meaning that the piston will collide with the valves if the camshaft or timing chain fails. Due to some cam sprocket failures, the engine acquired a reputation for potentially catastrophic failure.
Cam trouble
Soon after the introduction of the SHO V8, widespread problems with the cam sprockets began to surface. Ford had used a relatively unusual method, called "swaging", of affixing the cam sprockets to the camshafts. The cam sprockets were fastened to the hollow camshafts by forcing a metal ball which was slightly larger than the interior diameter of the camshaft through the center of the camshaft, thus expanding the metal slightly and creating a mechanical bond between the cam sprocket and the camshaft. This method proved to be inadequate, and thus on some engines, the cam sprocket could break loose from the camshaft and spin independently from the camshaft (or "walk"). This would result in the camshaft stopping and thus not activating the valves, allowing the pistons to hit the valves, ruining the engine. The preventive measure of welding the cam sprocket to the camshaft soon proved to be a fix for engines that had not suffered such a fate yet [1]. Another such fix is "pinning" the cam sprocket, or inserting a pin in the sprocket to keep it aligned on the camshaft. There were calls for Ford to provide a recall, though none ever happened, potentially because it was a limited-production vehicle.
Other than that, I heard it was a good car.
Regards,
OW
I am sure the new SHO will be far better reliability wise.
Regards,
OW
Technically, I have to agree with you. My Mom & stepdad bought a 1991 or 1992 (I forget now) Stanza. Around 90,000 miles, the transmission started to go, although they were able to limp it to around 110-120,000 miles, when they sold it.
They replaced it with a 1999 Stanza. And wouldn't you know it, that damn thing dumped its transmission at 35,000 miles! However, the car now has about 278,000 miles on it, and never had anything else go wrong, just regular maintenance stuff. So I'd say it's more than redeemed itself! :shades:
There was a problem with the V-8 engine used in the final SHO. The exact nature of the problem escapes me, but it inevitably resulted in an expensive repair. It had the potential to completely ruin the engine, if I recall correctly.
I've not heard of any engine problems with the early SHOs. A co-worker had a brand-new 1992 SHO (dark green) and it was a very nice car. I wouldn't mind having one today.
The new SHO looks great. But then, so does the regular Taurus. Ford displayed the regular Taurus at the Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., auto shows, and it is very sharp...I can see this one as being a big success. As long as people have the money to buy one, of course...
The point about Ford customer service is well taken. Traditionally it has been awful. I have no idea if they've worked on that.
Of course, mine was assembled in Ohio and has some Ford parts in it, so maybe that's why. :shades:
You realize you just contradicted yourself there?
Let me ask you this...which would you prefer to buy? A Toyota Camry designed and built in the US (out of likely some foreign content) but ultimately run by a guy in Japan? Or a Ford Fusion designed here but built in Mexico, though it is run by Alan Mually?
Me, I'd buy the Fusion, but I hate Toyota. If my sole desire was to pay as many Americans as possible and keep as much money here as possible, I'd buy the Caaa....I'd buy a Toooy....I'd find another Japanese brand built here to buy, I just can't bring myself to buy a To...Those.
Go ahead and say it. You'll have to eventually. Especially if they end up owning Ford and GM
You realize you just contradicted yourself there?
Let me ask you this...which would you prefer to buy? A Toyota Camry designed and built in the US (out of likely some foreign content) but ultimately run by a guy in Japan? Or a Ford Fusion designed here but built in Mexico, though it is run by Alan Mually?
Me, I'd buy the Fusion, but I hate Toyota. If my sole desire was to pay as many Americans as possible and keep as much money here as possible, I'd buy the Caaa....I'd buy a Toooy....I'd find another Japanese brand built here to buy, I just can't bring myself to buy a To...Those.
There was a number posted in here earlier that says the "T-company" employess 30,000 US workers, while "F-company" employees 240,000 US workers.
Might be so, but another question is, when you buy Car X, how much of that money goes into which economy and how fast, you know?
Might be so, but another question is, when you buy Car X, how much of that money goes into which economy and how fast, you know?
Well, Toyota engineers are typically paid a low base salary and then given an end of year bonus to bring them up to, or above, industry norms (this is why Toyota's announcement that it was cutting or reducing bonuses was particularly hard to swallow).
Engineers for the motown teams are paid a normal wage throughout the year, and occasionally given a merit increase an or bonus at the fiscal year end, depending on where they are in the payscale. Bonuses are taxed at a higher rate then base pay, IIRC.
Buying X car actually includes transportation, state and local sales taxes, property tax for the dealership, plus all the people that designed the vehicle and each component. So far, the Venza, Sienna and Tundra are the vehicles from "T" company designed on this continent. As Ford makes all these plans to bring over European models, there is still a considerable amount of work to make the vehicle suitable for the N/A market, so there is still a lot of desgin/engineering input.
I read last summer that Ford was closing a few N/A plants to retool them so they can make stuff other than SUVs or trucks. That will give them an Edge to Flex their manufacturing muscle by allowing them to Focus on the Fusion between manufacturing cost, location and efficiency. :P Sorry I kinda got on a roll there.
And when they're the last US Manufacturer standing, will they have a Fiesta? Or go on an Expedition? Maybe they ought to Explore the Taurus Constellation? If so they'd better bring some Rangers, or they might never Escape. :shades:
Well, Toyota engineers are typically paid a low base salary and then given an end of year bonus to bring them up to, or above, industry norms (this is why Toyota's announcement that it was cutting or reducing bonuses was particularly hard to swallow).
Engineers for the motown teams are paid a normal wage throughout the year, and occasionally given a merit increase an or bonus at the fiscal year end, depending on where they are in the payscale. Bonuses are taxed at a higher rate then base pay, IIRC.
If Toyota is making a profit and GM isn't, then maybe Toyota is *shudder* doing something right here..maybe their pay scale is more in line with making the product profitable.
Problem is, as of today, Toyota isn't profitable.
Thank you for that. I feel like I have found my place in society now. I don't know what that says about you, however.
If Toyota is making a profit and GM isn't, then maybe Toyota is *shudder* doing something right here..maybe their pay scale is more in line with making the product profitable.
But no one is making a profit. And I agree, its good for Toyota in a Walmart kind of way...implying a bonus and getting people to work at below market rates. As a non-unionized master degree'd engineer, I'd be annoyed, but as my Safety Engineering Professor used to say, "What do I know?"
>Problem is, as of today, Toyota isn't profitable. --cooter says
Maybe the government who allowed the foreign imports unbridled access to the markets here with quid pro quo needs to subsidize GM's higher cost structures for employing US UAW workers.
Or the US could encourage cheaper Indian and Chinese built imports to come into the country to give Toyota some competition. The government might add requirements for part time and full time employees and how they're covered for retirement and healthcare by Toyota. That would help the new fresh imports give us what we want, better cars at lower prices.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Let me ask you this...which would you prefer to buy? A Toyota Camry designed and built in the US (out of likely some foreign content) but ultimately run by a guy in Japan? Or a Ford Fusion designed here but built in Mexico, though it is run by Alan Mually?
Heck, I'm more inconsistent than that! I wouldn't buy a Toyota, yet I have Toyota stock!
Now, to be fair, if Toyota made something that I really wanted, I'd buy it. So it's not like I'm going anti-Toyota to make a statement or anything.
That's the dumbest thing I've seen here so far. Sorta like a union worker complaining because they take all his OT pay in taxes so why work it?
It is true that the more you make the higher the tax bracket, but in and of itself a bonus is not taxed any differently than normal wages. That is $100,000 in pay will pay the same taxes as $50,000 in pay and $50,000 in Bonus money.
Sorry, I found the disconnect. Bonuses are taxed as supplemental wages (different then overtime) so 25% is withheld instead of whatever % is taken from a normal paycheck. Overtime is taxed as "wages."
But the actual tax is whatever is computed for April 15 return. The amount of withholding doesn't mean anything other than you lose use of the extra tax money, if any, withheld until the tax form is filed and fulfilled.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But the actual tax is whatever is computed for April 15 return. The amount of withholding doesn't mean anything other than you lose use of the extra tax money, if any, withheld until the tax form is filed and fulfilled.
We're in agreement sir, I was explaining why I was confused on the topic.
I think the problem is that a lot of people, blue collar or not, just don't look at the big picture on taxes. They just see what a hit they take on their paycheck when they work overtime, but don't realize that when it comes time to do their taxes, it all evens out. I remember a few years back, I ended up putting in 50 hours of overtime one week. Now I don't get time and a half for overtime, just my same hourly rate. But, let's say I made $50K per year. That's about $24 per hour, or ~$960 per week. Well, that one week I worked 90 hours, my pay would've been about $2160, and they took out taxes based on me making that every week. So for that one week, they taxed me as if I made about $112,000 per year!
However, if that was the only overtime I worked that year, my W2 at the end of the year would have shown me making $51200, instead of $50000. Since they took out too much in taxes that one week, I'd get a refund.
I have a feeling that most people just don't look that far into the future, or just don't fully understand taxes. And sometimes, I think the tax codes are written just to keep us working stiffs in the dark!
Regards,
OW