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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Proton is a Malaysian company. They own Lotus now.
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Clarkson is a very amusing guy, but very, very hard to please regardless what he drives. The Kia Magentis that he feels is so bloody awful is the previous generation Kia Optima, which was actually a pretty good car. Clarkson's been known to serious pan Bentley's too, so you really have to take his reviews with a grain of salt, and a lot of humor. Hmm . . . I wonder what kind of gas mileage that previous generation Hyundai Accent with the 3-cylinder diesel would deliver??
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I wonder what kind of gas mileage that previous generation Hyundai Accent with the 3-cylinder diesel would deliver??

    In US gallons but using British rating system, combined mileage rating was 47 mpg with the diesel. British standard yields much higher number than EPA rating does.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    2008 Mini Cooper S Clubman: curb weight 2,712 pounds. :surprise: :mad: :cry: :sick:
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    might be your right, but are you really using your noggin if you insist on "riding with the flow like that, come what might or come what may?" I hate to be this way, but you're asking for a prolonged hospital stay or death if you insist on trusting the morons of the area you're riding in to not run in to you. Motorcycles are bad enough. They can't always be seen, yet, they still try to creep up in to an area on the road and you can't see them they have a huge thrombo over it and stare at you with that "you moron!" look in their eyes if they have to watch out for you and tap their brakes. How 'bout stayin' awake and not cutting up and around where you don't belong, you dork? Motorcyclists are doing somewhat fine to just be allowed to drive those deathtraps freely about our nation's highways and biways. Really.

    A guy in Tucson finally put the bike away after getting spat at, cussed at constantly, and, lastly, having a full bottle of beer thrown at him. He suffered a bruised kidney and was obviously, quite ticked off after the last one. He had put up with this type of abuse for many, many years, but the beer bottle chuck did his bike-riding career in.

    He now drives a car. They didn't say what kind of car he drives, but, a guy like that would really have to be a glutton for punishment if he bought a SmartForSomeone. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    A guy in Tucson finally put the bike away after getting spat at, cussed at constantly, and, lastly, having a full bottle of beer thrown at him. He suffered a bruised kidney and was obviously, quite ticked off after the last one. He had put up with this type of abuse for many, many years, but the beer bottle chuck did his bike-riding career in.

    Wow, yet another reason to be ashamed of my country. This society totally sucks. :cry:
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I recall having bottles thrown at me when I was on a bicycle. I have never had any problems on a motorcycle and I don't think that the former bicyclist would need to worry about a Smart car either. The only reason the person threw the beer bottle is that they knew that I would never catch them on a bicycle. That type of humor isn't funny to the beer bottle throwers when they have to respond to their action in the form of getting a good old fashioned [non-permissible content removed]-kicking when they finally get out of their car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    right on bro! What kind of a cowardly idiot throws bottles at people on bikes? May the bird of paradise pop his waterbed!

    Oh, don't even go there...what's with the people of this country that can't seem to stop leaving babies and puppies in hot cars in the summer? What the? I mean, how can you totally forget about a live creature you're leaving in an enclosed car?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmmm....0-60 in 7.6 seconds WITH a turbo and WITH an alternator that disconnects on acceleration? Yep, it does sound a bit porky, but at least you still get the torque steer!

    I'd never buy a turbo MINI. One turn in the Mazdaspeed3 cured me.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Is it just me or does that seem really, really slow 0-60 for the Clubman?

    The regular S is in the mid 6 range 0-60 and the clubman is only a hundred something lbs heavier. I don't see that little bit of extra weight adding a second to the 0-60 time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Might be harder to launch a turbo for the 0-60 numbers. Also, if the gearbox is the same as the 2007, it's geared rather long I thought.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    They tested the 2007 Cooper S at a 0-60 of 6.9 seconds so that number for the clubman just seems a little on the slow side. I wonder if maybe the gear ratios are different.

    2007 MINI COOPER S
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,686
    right on bro! What kind of a cowardly idiot throws bottles at people on bikes? May the bird of paradise pop his waterbed!

    Back when I delivered pizzas, one of the guys I worked with admitted to slapping a bicyclist on the butt one day. He was a passenger in a car and they were passing a biker on a hill. The guy was standing up to pedal, and I guess that tight, spandex-clad butt was just too much of a temptation...so he smacked it!

    He said the guy just gave him a startled "what the HELL?!" sort of look. Sounds amusing on the surface, but it was really dangerous as hell...could've caused that biker to lose his balance and crash.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,946
    there was a video floating around ... i think about a year ago ... of some kids carrying on in a car. I think one of them was trying to reach out to hit a biker (maybe skateboarder??). He had the door open and was hanging out. anyway, a passing car smashed the kid's face. OUCH!! hmmm.. i bet its on youtube...

    ahhh... here it is.
    WARNING: this is a bit disturbing!

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They're pretty harsh, eh?

    The Optima isn't that bad, and that's a previous generation one. They're comparing pricing for imports, but imagine the other way around, i.e you are in Korea, and price a VW import.

    Plus, they keep saying get a used Golf, ever driven a 2.slow? Hello?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,686
    The Optima isn't that bad, and that's a previous generation one. They're comparing pricing for imports, but imagine the other way around, i.e you are in Korea, and price a VW import.

    My friend's mother has a 2002 Sonata, which is what that Optima was badge-engineered from. I don't think it's a bad little car at all. It was pretty roomy inside, actually, and I thought it had some nice materials. Maybe some of the hard plastics and switchgear and such aren't up to Honda/Toyota quality, but I thought they made up for it with nice carpeting, fabrics, etc. Hers is a V-6 though. I'm sure that Top Gear Optima was a 4-cyl, since they were testing cheaper entry-level cars. I'd imagine the 4-cyl, in addition to being slower, also has softer springing and cheaper, smaller tires and wheels. The one they tested was also an automatic. Don't the British tend to hate automatics with a passion?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I also noticed the Getz they tested was well equipped, for instance it had a moonroof. I seriously doubt an equivalent VW costs the same.

    I hate when people do that, gotta keep it apples to apples. In that scenario, I'm sure the Getz costs a lot less.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,328
    Sounds amusing on the surface, but it was really dangerous as hell...could've caused that biker to lose his balance and crash.

    Not to mention that the driver had to be a bit to close to the biker to be able to do that.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,686
    Not to mention that the driver had to be a bit to close to the biker to be able to do that.

    Well this dude was a wiry little sucker. I could easily imagine him taking off his seatbelt and climbing up and leaning out the window to smack the guy. Still, not exactly safe!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,328
    I could easily imagine him taking off his seatbelt and climbing up and leaning out the window to smack the guy.

    Well then he could have very easily had fallen out. I believe the technical term for that would be poetic justice.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What do you guys think of VW's competitor to the Smart series?

    Should they bother bringing it there? Or bring the Lupo instead?
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    It's a goofy thing, but VW needs something to reclaim their small-car mojo here. Everything they sell now in the US is too big and too heavy.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    I would be very concerned about getting a VW in the smart car class. VW has some serious quality and dependability issues with the mainstream vehicles they sell in this country. The one reasonable caveat that people give who prefer VWs is their verses their counterparts is performance and handling. Neither of those qualities will likely be in attendance with a sub compact entry level car from VW. All you would have is the questionable dependability.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,686
    I got a ride in a VW Golf yesterday. Not sure of the year but it had 61K miles on it, so it was at least a few years old. I have to admit I was pretty impressed with the interior room. Now the wheel well did cut into foot room, somewhat, but legroom in that car was still impressive...like 1979 New Yorker impressive!

    Of course, you wouldn't be able to put anybody in the seat behind me except for a circus dwarf or a double amputee, but I was still impressed. And it was one of those cars where if I had to, I could move the seat up a bit and still not be cramped, if I had to free up some back seat room.

    I think it's also amusing how the Germans can make an interior that's mostly hard plastic but it ends up coming off as simply stark...not cheap. Of course, by 61000 miles, a VW could be pushing the end of its useful life! :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, then, if you want dependability, what about the Toyota iQ:

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3378

    Not only that, it's a 3+1, so dad could pick up both kids if mom gets caught up somewhere in the minivan.

    The idea has more legs than the Smart.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I always believed there was room in the VW lineup for the Polo/Lupo to be sold here in the states .. could compete against the Versa, Yaris, etc.

    I believe that we'll be seeing the Opel (Saturn) Corsa in 2010-2011.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think so, too.

    The Golf V has grown, and you might even say the GTI is a bit heavy/big to fill the mission the original 1984 model had.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The iQ is probably a "conceptized" successor to the Aygo. I doubt the 2+1 seating would ever see production.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, they can't possibly have two models smaller than the Yaris.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    It might have about 18-19K miles to go before things start with a check engine light.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sad, but true.

    My friend has her Passat 1.8T in the shop...again. She's had a Ford Five Hundred loaner for so long that I thought she had traded in for the Ford.

    Engine troubles, too.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    1.8T is a bad motor.

    I thought they solved a lot of the problems with the 2.0T but a coworker has that engine in his Passat and is constantly having problems with it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah? They were both technically advanced engines at their launch, so that's a shame.

    The 1.8T had lots of ignition coil problems, but she's having these issues right now, long after those were supposedly resolved.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Also sludge problems on the 1.8T. Also timing belt problems.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    It just may be that VW is how the Germans get revenge for losing WWII.
  • tgkoenigseggtgkoenigsegg Member Posts: 52
    Yeah the 1.8T isn't bad bad. It is just an expensive engine to maintain. Actually many if not all VW's are expensive. For our Jetta, we got a new clutch, the VW dealer wanted $1,800 and we found some specialists that charged $1,500. This was only for a basic 5 speed.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    Darn, I only paid a bit over $1050.00 to rebuild a Ford automatic in my sons Mustang in 2000. But then C&D or motortrend stated that on one of their long term reports on one of their VW said the 1.8 burned oil like a rotery and VW told them it was normal. Just picturing a cheep entry level sub compact from VW gives one the creeps thinking about all the dealings you can have with some of the worst service represenitives in the free world.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The 1.8T is bad. It might be the age (3-5 years/80-10K miles) of the VWs that two of my friends have and I get to experience it regularly but that makes for a really poor excuse considering that the baseline for comparison is my 1998 Accord with ~181K miles. The 1.8T is lacks linearity in power delivery, is unpredictable and has a pronounced turbo lag. That wasn't the case when I first test drove (1998 Passat 1.8T). Perhaps it is the age after all, and I'm glad I didn't buy into the VW turbo hype and went for the more logical choice. Both of these friends have spent a combined ~5K over few months in fixing their cars.

    And the check engine light in one of them is "on", again. This time the dealer says it might be a part of a recall, but who knows? While still paying for these cars, they are both looking into Hondas and Toyotas.

    When 1.8T arrived, it got high marks for improved quality and power and torque. By the time reality struck, it was replaced by 2.0T that is being called improved quality and getting high marks for power and torque... will history repeat itself? I won't bet against it.

    And they suck gas too. Those two cars are averaging only 21-23 mpg when I drive, on premium grade. It doesn't bode well for them when I consider that my Accord is still getting 25-26 mpg, on regular. While the numbers appear to be close, it is like spending 20-25% more on gas. Not something that makes sense in a subcompact.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,686
    Darn, I only paid a bit over $1050.00 to rebuild a Ford automatic in my sons Mustang in 2000.

    The last time I had a transmission rebuilt was back in 1997. It cost $650. It was a Torqueflite in a 1979 Newport. I forget which one it was though...probably the 998A. I have a feeling that if I ever need another tranny rebuilt, I'm in for some serious sticker shock! :sick:
  • wave54wave54 Member Posts: 211
    Well this YouTube video shows a Smart car crashing into a concrete barrier at about 70mph. The car survived, but would you?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s
    -------------------------------------------------

    I wonder how the Chinese look-alike (i.e. blatant rip-off) would do?
    Shuanghuan Noble
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,708
    Something like this:
    image
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 237,123
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  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,328
    There's no place that I rather be than right here with my red necks, white socks and blue ribbon beer.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    VW/Audi warranted some of those 1.8Ts out to 75,000 miles if you have all the service records.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I know, that is why I said 18K-19K miles later (with 61K miles). :) It happened with one of my friends, the other, a little later.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    with all this talk about super sub compacts it seems very unlikely the American public will embrace Smart cars if even europeans haven't. We simply seem to want more room. And from past experience we want more power.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    True. If I'm buying a car, I would prefer to have some utility out of it, at least more than a motorcycle or a scooter.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    it seems very unlikely the American public will embrace Smart cars if even europeans haven't

    They have about a dozen other (cheaper) cars that size to choose from.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The car is okay, the price point is real bad IMO.

    I think most Americans feel they don't get their money's worth when they order expensive lamb chops and they are the size of a matchbook cover. They'd pay $6 bucks for "lamb nuggets" but not $25.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I have a feeling it would look like that 2CV that disappeared when it got hit by that big truck in that other video. :D
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