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The Fiesta is very nice though. I have sat in one but not driven. And at that price, yo uare going to be at a much, much lower price point.
but no chance in the world I would ever be driving a car with roll up windows again!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And this car is well-engineered. Do your research...I am convinced that this would make a fun and reliable daily driver for meh-self. You don't get compromised road grip and steering nor do you get dumpy handling with this little mighty-might. Not at all. This is a light and small rig, only about 2,500 lbs.
Ford has stuffed lots of noise-dampening material underneath and around the cabin, reviewers are shocked at how quiet it is inside the cabin for a subcompact.
One negative is that passengers in the back don't have a lot of room. They need to be about 5' 10' tall at most and not too wide. So there's a negatory about the 2011 Ford Fiesta. But that's not nearly enough negative to break a deal for iluv.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Still all in all, I am now more interested than ever to drive an Abarth. WHY do we have to wait a whole extra year for it?
Also sat in the Fiesta which is a very nice piece of work (the 5-door that is), and only $17,4 for a manual SE with the moonroof. Lots of value there, and good looks and interesting color choices too!
And I had another sit in the CRZ, about which I like so many things, but probably not enough to pull the trigger.
PZEV, check.
Interesting interior and decent looks, check.
Comfortable and supportive seats, check.
Long front overhang and no factory moonroof, ummm?
Puny 10-gallon gas tank, ummmm?
Rated 31/37 with the stick, giving it virtually the same fuel economy as the afore-mentioned Fiesta and Mini Cooper while being much slower into the bargain and having two less seats, ummmm?????
But one of my last stops was the Mini Cooper, and I think that still is #1 in my mind. It's in a whole different class from all the other subs out there, even though it is only about $3000 more, similarly equipped (and $0 more than a CRZ).
I am also more of a fan than ever of the Juke, which is sort of like a jacked-up Mini: 188 hp from a small fuel-efficient turbo, a wheelbase of like 96 inches, and tons of personal customization available. Only problem is it has a torsion beam rear unless you get the AWD, which I wouldn't want. And it has Nissan electric steering, which is never a good thing for people who want to be involved in the drive.
Next step: test drive one of these things.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The suspension of the Fiesta is Front Independent MacPherson strut with stabilizer bar and Rear Twist Beam with coil springs. This has really impressed test drivers so far, helping the car to deliver in the twisty department, which is appealing to me. Steering is accomplished with Ford's EPAS with power rack and pinion. Apprently Ford's engineers have built-in what they call a "nibble" steering system that automatically makes the small adjustments for you (it's true, making those all the time can be annoying) when you're cruising down the expressway, purportedly making the experience much less taxing in the long excursion department. Long, long drives would go much smoother and be less tiring on you. Sounds interesting, when can I test drive? My local dealer advertises an S sedan in that great blue Ford color and 5-speeds, and it has the single-CD player, which would work fine for me, but when I go there to the sales lot they only have the 3 hatchback Fiesta's. And they all have automatic tranny's. :sick:
I want a 5-speed stick in my Fiesta S sedan! Oh well, I guess there's no rush to trade the Lancer in. I'll look later. Kind of entranced by this new Fiesta though, it's now my No.1 future's car to invest time and fun research time in.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Every car in this class (except the Mini and the CRZ) has Mac strut front suspension and a torsion beam rear with coil springs. The Fit is more of a handler than the Fiesta is, but it handles better at the expense of ride comfort. If smooth as she goes is what you are looking for, the Fiesta is best in class bar none, from what I have read. However, I am not sure reviewers are doing many active comparisons to the class oldies, like Aveo and Accent, any more because there are so many new entrants in this class.
Fiesta has two other things going for it on paper: class-leading fuel economy and being the only sub-$20K model with an available factory moonroof. Only thing is, I sat in one with a moonroof yesterday, and it is a very small moonroof which is pretty much all located behind the driver's head, which kinda takes some of the fun out of it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't care all that much about the peppiness, but a MT would be fun, and could make it seem a bit peppier. Then again, is was nice going from my 100 hp Caravan to the 170 hp Quest (and the Quest has more torque, and the mpg is better).
This is the new family friendly XLT Premium wagon:
Inside Line
It's tighter than that. The front seats have to be moved up for adults to fit behind you, basically.
I'd hate to be a product planner at a automaker. We complain that we don't get the Euro stuff, then a company brings something niche-y over, then we complain about what it doesn't have. The cars normal Europeans drive everyday ARE slow. And, I don't know if i'd call the Transit Connect mileage lousy. People on the TC forums are getting a solid mid-20's combined and up to 28-29 highway...same as a Mazda5 with a lot more room. Would it be better with a stick, diesel, awd, and everything else people say it needs to succeed? Maybe. Would you buy one for $31k? Probably not, but Europeans would.
But lets think like Ford for a moment: the first time someone suggested bringing this over in a meeting, they likely got laughed out of the conference room. If you are going to bring over something that really has no precedent in the US market, you're going to go bring a tight assortment to lower initial cost and risk. What would be least risky in the US? Yep, AT and gas engine. Cargo-only version and version with second row. Few colors, few options: these things are going to have to get disassembled at port anyhow, so let's keep it simple. Let's see if they sell, and if so, we'll revisit the offering. And it looks like that's what they are doing...now for 2011, there's a more passenger-friendly XLT Premium (dumb name), and if that sells, maybe they will take it further. I too would prefer a stick, however.
(Sidenote- I'd bet Ford does not have an existing small diesel that can meet US emission requirements; the astronomical cost to develop one for a model that may or may not sell is not smart business. Don't forget, Honda poured money into developing a diesel for the US and failed the initial test...they elected not to continue.)
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
The Mazda5 has nothing on this for utility, although it does have an available stick shift, something it seems like they could give the Transit Connect without much cost (and they really should offer the stick, for the mileage benefits you mention and others).
I sat in a Mazda5 and while I don't remember exactly what it was that made an impression on me, my overall thought was that it is ripe for a remodel, which I guess it gets shortly eh?
As for the Fit, the thing that always makes it stand out is the space for cargo and people behind the front seats. Thing is, while that is nice and all, some people like me buy subcompacts to be their commute cars and don't really need the space. By contrast, the Fiesta is so small in back that even a child would have a tough time fitting once the seat in front of them is occupied by an average size adult.
My priorities in no particular order are emissions rating, fuel economy, and handling. The Fit does well in the handling department, but only average in the emissions department and with the advent of the Mazda2 and Fiesta and the continuing existence of the Mini and Yaris, it is distinctly BELOW average in the fuel economy department for this class.
Also consider that several cars in the COMPACT class, a whole size bigger, substantially beat Fit's mileage now, including the new Cruze and Elantra and supposedly the new Focus that will be available in just a couple of months.Even the Civic's mileage is about even with the Fit's, and they will need to improve that rating substantially for next year's redo if they hope to keep the Civic fuel-economy-competitive.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
I like Ford's little van but let's remember diesel costs a bunch more than gas here in the USA. Around me there is a big difference - $2.99 for regular vs. $3.53 for diesel.
Shifty feels the same, and the relatively low depreciation for the Mini also supports this view. If the Mini puts more of a smile on your face that the others when you drive it, that's certainly worth a premium.
Have you test drive a Mini, and. if so, what are your impressions?
You mentioned the Cruze's fuel economy. Would you consider one?
Check out a new Elantra - handsome, and 40mpg no matter which model (or even transmission) you choose. Manual or auto, both come with 6 speeds, too.
But my '99 Quest has been getting low 20's combined and for a long time there I was able to get 27-28 on the highway without trying too hard.
Regular gas around here is running $3.09 right now, before my grocery coupons that usually knock it down a dime a gallon. Sure makes the idea of the bigger Prius that's coming appealing. But it would be nice tooling around in a blue Transit Connect , and the ground clearance would have to be better. A 5 speed and routinely hitting 30 mpg would be a bit sweeter.
I think we would have liked the Elantra Touring we looked hard at during Cash for Clunkers too Juice. Not exactly a subcompact any more than the Prius is though.
I like the idea of the "Prius5" too, but I'm guessing it won't be cheap. I have to think there are a lot or Prius owners that would trade up to it.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
My '04 focus was rated at 33 mpg highway, but the one time I took it on a long trip, I averaged 37.5 mpg, uncorrected for the 2% under measurement of the odometer.
Last month, I was just able to beat the 27 mpg highway rating for my AWD Fusion on a return run from Indiana. Whole trip was 25.8.
But yes, I was intending to get out there Saturday but couldn't make it until yesterday. It was obvious the tides have turned - GM and Ford were crowded; Ford had a whole line of Fiestas people seemed to really like while the Volt was a mob scene! Honda in particular was where the crickets were chirping, but Toyota wasn't packed either.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Would I consider the Cruze? Well, it is supposedly the "small car that drives like a big one" even more so than the Cobalt was, and that one was already steeped in that characteristic. Me, I like small cars to drive like small cars but I realize that is the minority view in the U.S. So I would consider one but only if I were shopping for compact cars instead of their smaller siblings, and then the Mazda3 would probably win the day for me. Of course, the Mazda has one of the lowest fuel ecnomy ratings in the compact class, so perhaps I would end up with a Civic as a compromise. I find all the compact cars fairly uninspiring right now, including Chevy's "small car that drives like a big one".
I wish they would fix up the Aveo into something even a LITTLE BIT competitive, because I would love to see how they might best the Fiesta.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
But all of the features included starting with the more than capable 1.6L I4 producing 120hp at 6,350 rpm. Toting sequential multiport electronic fuel injection. It's just that Ford has tuned this thing so tightly to how I would like it, tight for twisties but yet reviewers are saying that it actually smoothes over normal potholes and bumps, much like a larger luxury car would. They accomplish this with Independent MacPherson struts with stabilizer bar in front and Twist Beam with coil springs on the rear, known pinnings, yes, but that's just what you want in the rear to provide the hold around turns, but still providing some give...and take. I want to test drive one of these to experience the "nibble steering", it supposedly helps keep your steering wheel corrected automatically while on the expressway.
I'll test drive one before too long and make sure the test drive includes a freeway excursion. This could be my return to the domestic manufacturing field. I am so impressed by Ford lately. I had heard of this car for months (actually years) but after studying the way Ford has engineered this car intensely I am really, really impressed.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But I'm very glad the Fiesta is back, and if they ever build an SVT version I will be a lot more interested than I am currently!
Come on Fiat, move up the debut of the Abarth!.... ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Unfortunately, there are very few options that are small and RWD, but almost any of the older classics that are set up like that will pummel a Mini day in and day out. I'd in fact rather have an old BMW 2002 or even a Volvo 240 turbo over yet another front wheel drive car that's more fashion statement than it is an actual driving person's car.
This also applies to most of the rest as well. It's not just Mini that's the problem here. The thread asks what's wrong with today's compacts? It's that with the advances in technology such as stability control, traction control, ABS, and so on, there are still no affordable RWD (and very few AWD) options despite FWD no longer being an absolute must.
Note - you can get an AWD version of almost every last car sold in Japan. In Japan, that is. Want an AWD Fit? An AWD Civic? How about an AWD Corolla?
OK - that's the second problem. The cars do exist but aren't imported here because.. I can only assume that it's because the people in Japan and Europe think that American's can't drive their way out of a shopping mall parking lot.
:sick:
I will commiserate with you regarding the total lack of small sporting RWD cars, but that doesn't change the question, which is what are you going to do when it comes time to replace your car? Wait several more years in the hopes that more RWD choices will become available? And when they do offer one, it is always big-engined because RWD is the "sporty" choice, so any car with RWD "must" have a ton of power and crap fuel economy. Look at the Genesis coupe. How big of a whale did that end up being? Yes, it handles relatively well and it has decent fuel economy, but I doubt it would beat 30 mpg (or even APPROACH 30 mpg) in daily commuting, which makes it totally unacceptable to me for that purpose.
When all the cars get back to being RWD, which they should have done a decade ago, there will be small, low-powered cars that are truly fun to drive just because they are so light and they are RWD. But it isn't going to happen for a long time.
And AWD? AWD sucks down the fuel economy of every car it touches. I can barely average 28-29 mpg in my Subaru, which ISN'T used for commuting and only makes 170 hp. There are a number of RWD cars available with more than 300 hp that will also beat my Subaru for fuel economy!!! I like the driving characteristics of AWD, but unfortunately it hurts fuel economy way too much to be viable as a commute choice.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I test drove a previous generation Mini (not the "S"), and based on that, can relate with what you said.
But as you said, a lot of folks will use these new Sub's strictly as a commuter vehicle, so that means they're using their larger vehicle for other trips, vacations, etc., but if you had the Fit, you could hold 2 adults and 2 kids and their luggage for all sorts of weekend and longer road trips. So if a person had a Fit, it could be used more as a multipurpose vehicle for commutes and family road trips.
Because of the versatiility of the Fit and it's interior space, it could be used instead of a larger vehicle for other uses. So if a person is really insterested in MPG and emmissions, it's best to look at all the vehicles driven in their household and maximize all of them. Bottom line for me is that some of these Sub's are too limited in their use (i.e.commuter car only). Of course your second "big" car could then be the Fit
Mini Cooper S - Slalom 68.1 34.2 turning radius.
Lexus IS250 - Slalom 68.2 (one size larger vehicle no less) 33.4 turning radius.
RWD is a massive improvement.
I'd love to see a RWD mini again.
:confuse: again :confuse:
But BMW already tried that, and we got the 1-series, which is basically 95% of a 3-series at 97% of the price. Nothing small, light, or fuel-efficient about that model.
If these automakers could just get a half ton of lead out of all these models (and in some cases a WHOLE ton), they would be a lot more fun. As it is, I have to buy a Mini or a Fit just to get the curb weight under 3000 pounds!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A RX-8 is considered light at 3000lbs. 3000lbs in a car that size is really quite heavy.
MY 1967 Mercedes 230S was 3000lbs exactly. We're talking the size of a Camry, with thick sheet metal and zero plastic anywhere. The driver seat alone weighs as much as a Fit's entire set of seats. Something's dreadfully wrong. It's almost as if they are bulking up the cars with dead weight on purpose.
I change my mind - #1 is now "weight". A small car should be small and lightweight as well as also safe. If Volvo of all people could do it 30 years ago, they can still do it today.
Hey, didn't you read where I said 'cept the Mini-Cooper? I prefer the 2011 Ford Fiesta more than the Mini-Cooper, though I bought a VHS copy of the movie 'The Italian Job' with Charlize Theron and Mark Wahlberg because of the fact that they used Mini-Coopers in the movie. The City of L.A. told the movie's producers that they would have to turn the Mini-Coopers from ICE engines to all-electrical propulsion to go to underground L.A. to film. So they did just that, and, what's more, they converted the Mini's to all-electrical propulsion within a few days is all. So I like Mini's, too, I just don't love them.So, can't cha just tell that engineers could make better progress building all-electrics for the masses, if they only had the backing of local and city and state governments and the U.S. government. The U.S. government is working on supporting all-electrics, though they could sure be doing more. But that is amazing how fast those Mini-Cooper's in 'The Italian Job' were converted!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Autoblog spec'd out a Countryman at over $47 grand:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/23/mini-countryman-configurator-powers-up/
And that's before the John Cooper Works treatment.
For that sort of money the label should say "Porsche" or "Lotus".
As bad as it is now, I bet it'll get worse with the new, tougher, rating system. Gotta get those '5 stars'...wonder how that'll work with the new tougher mpg regs :confuse:
Did you see NHTSA's new test where they slide sideways in to a telephone pole?
Because that happens to often in real life, all those soccer moms power drifting their family cars.
They're grasping for straws and now testing unlikely events.
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In addition to more safety and convenience features, new versions of existing models have gotten larger in recent years. There are signs that this trend will not continue, or may even be reversed in some cases. For example, the next generation Civic and Accord will be slightly smaller than the current ones, from what I've read. It'll be interesting to see if they will also be lighter. I'm not counting on much reduction, but maybe there will be some. Also, Audi, for one, is taking weight out by materials substitution.
Incidentally, I agree with you regarding the negative effect that pedestrian safety is having on style. I don't know about you, but for the first time in my life I'm having a difficult time identifying quite a few new models, because the lines and styling cues have become so similar in many cases.
Fatter cars for fatter people maybe? 2006 Civic doesn't seem smaller than a 1993 Accord.
The high snout look along with gaping mouths is definitely from pedestrian requirements. It's far from attractive.
Amen to that. BMW X-series are tricky to spot in isolation. Is it an X3 or an X5 ? Is it an X3 or an X1 ? Saw a new Audi A1 yesterday. In the mirror I thought it was an A3 until it passed me and I saw the badge. Ditto A4s and A6s. Small hatches from Japanese or Korean manufacturers ? I give up. At least the RR Phantom is still distinctive - as it darned well should be for the money. Think Rolls Royce attitude to pedestrian safety is : "Hey, look, I'm huge, you can't not see me ................now get out of the way". I rather like that.
If it had been an F-150, she'd gone to hospital.
http://www.caranddriver.com/
I know it's out of the range of this category, but the Mazda5 is kinda like an enlarged Fit:
Mazda5
Length: 181.5 in. Width: 69 in.
Height: 64.2 in. Wheel Base: 108.3 in.
Ground Clearance: 5.5 in. Curb Weight: 3422 lbs.
This thing is a blast to drive around town - you can throw it into corners and curves and it just sails through with minimal body roll. The engine is always peppy enough to feel fast and fun, although as anyone (like myself) who drives daily in a car powered by a 1.5L engine will tell you, the real oomph is above 3500 rpm. That's fine by me - just makes it more fun to drive when you are in that sort of mood. :-)
It has an excellent shifter, with short throws and well-defined gates. It has a light, easily read clutch and strong brakes. And the seats in the Touring are better than those in the base car - firmer and made of a different material. I would definitely go with the Touring for the alloys and cruise alone, not to mention those seats.
Inside, the Fit has it beat (of course) for rear-seat flexibility and potential cargo space; the 2's back seats fold but create their own shelf when folded, so it isn't flat from tailgate to the front seats. Curious that Mazda couldn't figure THAT out better after how many years of making hatchbacks. You can also see where cost-cutting took place - the headliner is ultra-thin, there is only one grab handle (for the front passenger), and the dome light is straight out of 1975 in design and operation. But overall it's a very nice little package for $16,5 - $1000 less than a Fit Sport which DOESN'T have the ESC the Mazda2 has at that price - you have to go for the NAV package to get ESC in the Fit, and I believe they only offer it with the automatic transmission too, thereby pushing the price over $20K while also sucking all the fun out of the car with the mandatory slushbox.
Right now this is my favorite car in its class with a price well under $20K. If I were going to spend more than $20K my money would still be on the Mini Cooper I think. But I hope Mazda sells lots of Mazda2s - spoke to the sales manager and he says the green is the most popular color for 2s, and that would be my choice also. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
the "pod" at the bottom of the center stack where the shifter sits is so big that it encroaches on your right leg
Mazda needs to hire more ergonomicists. Seriously.
The CX9 has a bump in the center stack right at my knee level wish limits knee room, plus it's hard.
The Miata (2008 and prior, at least) have bottle holders in the doors that torture your left knee.
Memo to Mazda: humans have legs, and they want to be comfortable. Putting hard surfaces up against those does NOT help. Wake up!
I got the 08 Miata but I rigged some black padding that blends in fairly well to rest my left knee. It went from terrible to tolerable. Thankfully it was fixed for '09.
I know one 08 Miata owner who took a dremel to the door panel and cut out that bump, seriously!