What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

stever · January 2013

ateixeira · January 2013

I'd like to see a Spark SS, even with just a slight bump in output.

I'd pick 500, Spark, iQ, and walking, in that order.

nippononly · January 2013

for them to offer a manual in the iQ, would make it my choice. I think I will be waiting a long long time though (read: never).

Almost bought a 500, but hated the fact that the only way that car is acceptable to drive is if you press the "Sport" button every time you drive it - you can't program it to default to Sport. It truly is a stylish little bugger. I bet the Abarth is a hoot, but then you are spending enough money where a Cooper S begins to be in reach, and I would go with the Mini.

ateixeira · January 2013

Is it me or does the 500 feel a little tinny? Base models are cheap, but Abarths can get up there.

nippononly · January 2013

I only drove a Sport, but it didn't feel particularly tinny. I imagine all the really little cars feel a bit unsubstantial if you are used to bigger cars, but the super low weight also makes them a lot more fun to drive. :-)

ateixeira · January 2013

For mid teens price, no complaints. Once you hit $20k I'd be looking at more substantial cars.

nippononly · January 2013

Well the Sport only runs about $18K and change...

As for me, I am all about lightweight transpo - my Yaris weighs 2300 pounds. If they stuffed a 1.8 turbo under the hood with 180 hp or so, and held the weight to 2500 pounds or less, I would be there no matter if the price went into the $20Ks. The thing already drives like a roller skate, it carves corners almost as well as an '02 Celica I had once upon a time....all it lacks is the power to really have fun. :-)

I would have two, a lo-po version to get me 40 mpg in my commute like the one I have now, and one more with the turbo for fun on weekends! ;-)

michaellno · January 2013

s for me, I am all about lightweight transpo - my Yaris weighs 2300 pounds. If they stuffed a 1.8 turbo under the hood with 180 hp or so, and held the weight to 2500 pounds or less, I would be there no matter if the price went into the $20Ks. The thing already drives like a roller skate, it carves corners almost as well as an '02 Celica I had once upon a time....all it lacks is the power to really have fun.

I would have two, a lo-po version to get me 40 mpg in my commute like the one I have now, and one more with the turbo for fun on weekends!

Can you say Fiesta ST? 197HP with the 1.6L EcoBoost and I suspect mid-30's on the highway. Haven't seen any official pricing yet, but I would think somewhere in the low 20's to start.

nippononly · January 2013

Yes, the Fiesta ST has not gone unnoticed by me, but is it available here? I hadn't heard that...

michaellno · January 2013

Yes, the Fiesta ST has not gone unnoticed by me, but is it available here? I hadn't heard that...

I thought I saw something on-line late last year that indicated the ST would be sold in the US.

Gotta love the whole "One Ford" mentality. Wonder when Europe will get the Edge....

:P

andre1969 · February 2013

Anybody have any experience/insight, good, bad or ugly, about the Mazda 2? I have a friend who lives in DC that wants a small car, and says he likes Mazdas, but is anything BUT a car person. Someone had told him to check out the Mazda CX-5. He asked me about it, and in describing it I made the mistake of using the word "SUV" so suddenly he has the mental pic of some mammoth, hulking thing...and packpedalling and using the word "Crossover" didn't undo the damage.

I told him if he wanted small, he should check out a Mazda 3 or the 2. I sat in a 2 at the DC auto show. For what it was, I didn't think it was a bad little car. Not my type of car, but I could see its appeal as a city car. Or, the type of car they try to pass off on you in Aruba if you tell them you want a "midsize" as a rental. :P

maxx4me · February 2013

well, the Mazda 2 really is a two seater. It is very hard to put an adult in the back seat. I love the CX-5 and the mileage it returns. It does appear as a pretty hefty SUV however. In comparison, the Hyundai Tucsan has a much smaller look to it. If he wants a new model, small urban car with some utility, I'd suggest looking at the Hyundai Elantra GT or the Mazda 3 hatchback.

ateixeira · February 2013

The 2 needs the SkyActiv treatment now.

stickguy · February 2013

not until it gets redesigned, and who knows if it will even stay in this market.

ateixeira · February 2013

Would be a shame.

tifighter · February 2013

The reviews of the manual version are super positive, but I think the AT is a 4 speed, which has to be a dog with the smaller engine. If your friend would consider a manual, it would be worth a test drive...its gotta be pretty fun.

bpizzuti · February 2013

Supposedly it's not sticking around as a Mazda, but the next-gen one will serve as the basis for Toyota's next Yaris.

qbrozen · February 2013

I've inspected and sat in the 2 a couple of times. Other than the tacky pattern on the seats, I like it alot. The backseat really isn't that bad. I have to push the driver's seat all the way back, which would only allow a child to sit behind me, but a shorter driver would certainly leave decent enough room back there.

hpmctorque · February 2013

I agree with your comments about the usefulness of the 2's back seat, inasmuch as this car would generally be used for urban driving rather than long road trips. My point is that rear seat passengers can put up with suboptimal comfort for short distances, as a tradeoff for the attributes of a small car for primarily urban use.

Every car requires compromises. It's a matter of choosing which compromises are most suitable for a particular individual.

andre1969 · February 2013

I have to push the driver's seat all the way back, which would only allow a child to sit behind me, but a shorter driver would certainly leave decent enough room back there.

I had to put the seat back as far as it would go, and wished it would have gone back further. But, I could still drive it, if I had to. As for my friend, he's about 5'11 or 6' tall, so a few inches shorter than me. My guess is that it would be okay for him. He's technically car-less right now, but he has access to a friend's 1992 Corolla wagon. I've ridden in that thing a few times, and the Mazda 2 definitely felt more comfortable. Up front at least. I've never tried the back seat of either.

One thing that really amazed me though, is how far small cars have come. This Mazda 2 was probably one of the smallest new cars I've sat in in awhile, but it didn't seem scary-small. In contrast, that '92 Corolla feels like a death trap. And to think, in 1992, that Corolla was probably one of the best small cars out there!

ateixeira · February 2013

I bet that makes for a better Yaris, at least if they give it a decent auto trans.

My 10 year old liked the atomic green Spark that was at the show, now that's scary small.

andre1969 · February 2013

I sat in the Sonic sedan they had at the auto show, and was impressed at how far the seat went back. But then I realized why it was so roomy...put that seat all the way back and suddenly you're essentially in the back seat!

But still, I'm glad to see they're finally making smaller cars that fit tall people, even if there is some sacrifice to the back seat. Most small cars have horrible back seats anyway, so what's the harm in simply giving the front seat more fore-aft travel?

ateixeira · February 2013

What movie was it where a bball star ripped out the front seat and just sat in the back seat?

bpizzuti · February 2013

That would be Police Academy, and Bubba Smith was a football player, not a basketball player. :shades:

I think if the new Yaris ends up with the SkyActiv tranny it'll be nice, but it'll also make the 4-speed auto in the Corolla look as ancient as it really is. Toyota might have issues with that, therefore it might not happen...

andre1969 · February 2013

I wonder why Toyota hasn't bothered to update the Corolla's drivetrain? I think the 2013 model is using the same 1.8 and 4-speed automatic that my uncle's 2003 has...and that sucker's going to be ELEVEN years old on Memorial Day weekend!

I guess it's still adequate enough, and it does still sell well. But, it's getting to the point that a lot of midsized cars are meeting or even beating its 26/34 EPA rating (it was 30/38 under the old system that was in place when my uncle bought his car).

As for the Mazda 2, it's rated 29/35 with the stick, 28/34 with the automatic. I have a feeling my friend would be happy with the stick shift. That fuel economy doesn't sound so hot for such a small car, but he doesn't drive a whole lot, so it's not essential that he get the best economy in its class. Plus, the low price will more than offset the somewhat low economy.

fintail · February 2013

And the car was a 70s Honda Civic/CVCC

ateixeira · February 2013

Hah! No wonder my search failed.

Here it is:

http://youtu.be/tAPk9KZbdAE

bpizzuti · February 2013

They probably haven't updated it because they think they can get away with it. They've got GM disease. Next thing you know they'll be flying private jets to Tokyo demanding a bailout because how could anyone have foreseen the downturn in their sales?

ateixeira · February 2013

Well, there is a price to complacency. It's the best seller, but look at what they're selling for. Mid teens.

Meanwhile Hyundai is selling tons of Elantra Limiteds for over $20k.

Which one has the better profit margin?

andre1969 · February 2013

Can you even get leather in a Corolla? I just went to fitzmall.com and looked up their Corollas. Most expensive one I found was a 2013 S automatic for $21,372. It has Nav, but cloth seats.

They're also showing an Elantra Limited for $21,669, and it has leather and Nav. They also have one for $22,488, but at a quick glance, I can't tell what it has that's extra.

fintail · February 2013

I think so. My wacky friend who bought a Prius C rollerskate claims he was looking at one with leather. He makes random rash decisions, surprised he didn't buy it.

On the subcompact car front, my sister has had her Sonic for over 5 months now, zero issues other than the rear windshield explosion.

ateixeira · February 2013

So, other that exploding shards of glass flying everywhere, it's fine?

Left over 2012 Prius c models are selling cheap, $18.6k when I looked. Navi/Entune for $20.4k, that's peanuts. A Yaris is only about $2 grand less, so you'll make that up on gas in just 3 years.

May as well get the hybrid roller skate.

Anyone here driven one?

fintail · February 2013

I was unable to find any similar Sonic events - I imagine her car just had defective glass. But she likes it. She claims she can't tell a difference in how it drives from her old Focus, which leads me to believe she just doesn't care :shades:

I have noticed commercials for leftover 2012 Camry and RAV4, too. Probably some deals to be had. My friend is only leasing his Prius, and doesn't intend to repeat it at the end - he'd get a normal sized one at worst.

I haven't driven it, but I have ridden in it numerous times. Those experiences give me no desire to drive it :shades:

ateixeira · February 2013

A tiny spec of contamination can cause that with glass. Strange, though.

Used 2012s cost more than new 2012s right now (CarGurus.com).

You have to compare the c to similarly sized cars - Fit, Yaris, Sonic, Spark, Fiesta, Mazda2, etc.

I know I'm the only person in America who likes small cars, though. :lemon:

fintail · February 2013

Especially if a new model is coming soon, a leftover can be a deal. Cheap RAV4s to be had I bet.

I don't mind small(er) cars, but I want something that handles OK and doesn't have a poverty spec interior.

ateixeira · February 2013

Last chance to get the wonderful 2GR-FE V6 in the RAV4.

Oddball trivia - it's the quickest Toyota C&D tested from 0-60.

No argument on the interior - it's cheap all right. Remember I looked at one and that turned me towards the Sienna. That and the wrong-way opening door, which they finally fixed.

And my 2007 is pre-cost cutting, the newer Siennas are not as nice.

After sitting in many Toyotas back to back with Fords and Chevys and Nissans, though, the yotas still seem to be the best assembled. Nissan is most inconsistent, some are nice others are crap. Chevys are nice when you get up to Impala/Enclave prices. Ford C-Max was the biggest disappointment of the whole show for me.

fintail · February 2013

Makes me not want to lose my embrace of lightly used highlines with a good CPO or aftermarket warranty.

When a mommymobile soft roader designed for people who dislike cars and driving is your fastest car, you're doing it wrong :shades:

tifighter · February 2013

The Sonic is another one I'd be curious to drive. It actually has some torque. I've been pretty happy with the Cruze rentals I've had, so a hatch version that's lighter and is available with the stick sounds pretty good. LTZ with the new big touchscreen could be a nice car.

andre1969 · February 2013

After sitting in many Toyotas back to back with Fords and Chevys and Nissans, though, the yotas still seem to be the best assembled.

We didn't really pay close attention to the Toyotas, other than sitting in a Camry to see how it compared to other midsizes. One thing I'll say for 'em...at least they're not using electrical tape for blackout trim anymore. :P

Actually, one thing I liked about the Camry was that it felt like the front seats used bigger cushions than most midsized cars. In some cars, like the Fusion and Accord, it seemed like they were using seats that were a bit small, like they were better suited for a compact car. The previous Nissan Altima seemed like this to me as well, but I didn't really notice it on the new one. The main thing I remembered about the new Altima was that the seats seemed thicker and plusher than in the past. I know they're bragging about using NASA technology or something like that, but I think the reason they're more comfy is simple...more cushion for the pushin!

ateixeira · February 2013

In that class the Fusion was a fail due to the tight footwell. Lots of intrusion near the dead pedal.

All the rest are comfy.

Altima is huge. Even the Sentra is huge.

Accord is comfy but the interior left me cold.

All of those felt too big for me anyway. I will check out a Versa Note when it comes out.

crkyolfrt · February 2013

A Mazda example..

I don't think I have ever met a person (outside of the salesperson representing his/her brand) that is ok with OEM option pricing.

Here are just a few absolutely RIDICULOUS prices for a couple popular options on a Cdn Mazda3 SkyActive GS:

- $535.00 !! fog lights

but wait, there's more...
- add another 105 bucks for the special combo switch if you happen to have auto headlights.. WHAT?!

- $195.00 block heater - give me a break already..

Lots of other examples, but you get the idea..NO THANK YOU Mazda..who cares how supposedly wonderful your new SkyActive tech is in terms of fuel savings if you're gonna rape us so blatantly for 2 options that basically should be standard on a 21k $ car in the first place.

$723.20 (incl tax) for fog lights????? Really????????

I think I have seen absurdity like this for fog lights in the past, but I think it was on some exotic EU prize or something..not a 2nd smallest car offering from a common average Japanese brand..

And this was a stand-alone option...not one of those deals where the price reflects other crap that is part of it.. ridiculous..

Only thing worse I've read here (new Accord forum) in the past week was 470. USD for floor mats..

ateixeira · February 2013

Just go aftermarket.

crkyolfrt · February 2013

Perhaps, but it is advantageous to take advantage of OEM wiring connections which are designed to resist corrosion. A bigger benefit for those who endure salted roads in the winter.

Remote start was another over-priced option and those can be very problematic with aftermarket.

IMO, cars destined for certain cold markets should come standard with block heaters. I give GM credit here in that I noticed recently all Sparks (and probably others) come standard with a block heater.
They are an engine and fuel saver and at 300 to 400 watts are super energy efficient for the benefits realized (faster heater/defroster too). And installed at the factory helps keep contamination levels in check.

ateixeira · February 2013

You can also get Navi on the built-in screen for peanuts, just buy an iPhone app for it.

The car is very toy-like, though. Check out the body color bottle holders in the doors.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2013

the Mazda2 is the one I would buy. I like the apple green color they have. There's a 60% chance I would buy a metallic green 2 and a 40% chance I would buy a red one. Silver? I don't know, I'll check out the look. But I'll never leave Mitsubishi. Come on!

I've inspected and sat in the 2 a couple of times. Other than the tacky pattern on the seats, I like it alot. The backseat really isn't that bad. I have to push the driver's seat all the way back, which would only allow a child to sit behind me, but a shorter driver would certainly leave decent enough room back there.

Looks like it should weigh about 2,000 pounds but I'll bet it weighs around 2,600 pounds, which contributes to it's ghastly mileage being seemingly low. But that's just fine with me. It won't handle like the 1991 Suzuki Swift but it has that great small car look that is timeless and wonderful.

nippononly · February 2013

Nope it only weighs about 2300 pounds, and the reason it gets such lousy gas mileage is that it is geared for acceleration. It's quite speedy around town. The auto is only a 4-speed, worsening the fuel economy even further if you don't shift for yourself.

bpizzuti · February 2013

Mazda has a 1.6L SkyActiv motor that would be better in there. Not sure if the 6 speed auto tranny would fit but it might.

ateixeira · February 2013

I'd be all over that for a test drive. On day one.

stever · February 2013

A reporter would like to speak to a new Fiat 500 owner. If you have purchased a Fiat 500 in the last 6 months and would like to share your story, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Friday, Feb 8, 2013 at noon PT/3 p.m. ET.

tifighter · February 2013

Yeah, you'd think if they can fit a 6AT in the Miata...

What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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