Stories from the Sales Frontlines

joel0622 · September 2007

With very analytical people I show the true numbers. The ACV of there trade against the discounted selling price of our car. I treat them just like a plan customer just not at a plan price, and I always show them a complete OTD price not a here is your price now you need to add tax to it. After I show them the OTD I tell them that Ford offers a $XXXX rebate on this car and it is there money to do with what they want, they can apply it to the price or Ford will mail him a check.

dino001 · September 2007

I like it. If I could only meet more people like that, not ones who start conversation with "what is your monthly payment now and how much do you want it to be?" . My answer to that is "the payment will be what it needs to be for the given term and rate - for now it doesn't matter" - they often still don't get it.

I guess in your line of work you meet too many people who can't see beyond their payment or trade number (single button) so it takes some time to get that across. I generally have no problem with that as long as they don't insist on their approach for too long. When they have no answer for simple questions like "what is the assumed rate", or similar, there will be most likely no sale.

jmonroe · September 2007

Lets exclude the subgroup of those who would argue about 50c/month payment or $10 tax/stamp calculations - just those who simply come prepared and demand a deal that is (really) skinny but doable...

How many times have we heard from the guys in the biz here say, we like dealing with informed buyers, it makes our job easier, we dont like the grinders who try to burn up our day only to walk for $50!!! I dont think anybody would argue with that.

However, my experience shows that they all want that whale and will break their back trying to reel it in but when push comes to shove, they quickly reel in that minnie and try for the whale with the next guy. And Im sure theyll tell us that it works often enough, so why not try it? Again, who would argue with that.

Now, if I were in the market for a car and wanted a Ford, Id have to consider driving to our buddy Joels store in Tenn. Do you think hed try that stuff with us?

jmonroe

roadburner · September 2007

I always show them a complete OTD price not a here is your price now you need to add tax to it.

I always negotiate an OTD price. The last time I had a trade I knew(thanks to Bill and Terry) the auction price for my trade as well as a fair retail price for the CPO Five I was looking at. In KY sales tax on a used vehicle is calculated on the price of the car less the trade-in allowance so it was dead easy for me to calculate a ballpark OTD number. The dealer quoted an OTD price, I made an offer, they counter-offered, and I accepted. Done. No hassles with doc fees, etc. Just write the check and go.

greanpea68 · September 2007

Mack ,

Sorry you didn't get your trip. Those are the things people don't think about when surveys are important. Are they using your CSI for the year or just those three months?

master_ryu · September 2007

Sorry I don't have a story. I just have a questions for those in the business.

I'm currently looking to buy a car within the next few weeks. I already have financing at a credit union, so I will just go in to negotiate price. What proof, if any, do I need to show the dealer that I have financing? The bank said that they can only proceed the loan when they see a Purchase & Sales agreement (among other things). How will the dealer verify that I have financing to be confident enough to dish out the sales agreement? What if the credit union is closed that day? Is there any chance I can drive away with the vehicle before the loan check is issued to me? What if the purchase OTD cost of the car is slightly greater than the loan that I have with the bank? Do I just pay the difference right then and there to the dealer? Sorry too many questions, I know. But I've never really financed a new car.

isellhondas · September 2007

You won't have any problems. We do this every day.

The store will simply have you fill out a credit application. They will pull your credit and simply hold sign you up on an "Option Contract". they will then fax your Purchase Order to your lender for payment.

The Option Contract protects the dealer in case, for some reason your lender won't grant you the loan.

joel0622 · September 2007

How will the dealer verify that I have financing to be confident enough to dish out the sales agreement?

I have never had it be a problem but if your worried ask your bank for a pre-approval letter.

What if the credit union is closed that day? Is there any chance I can drive away with the vehicle before the loan check is issued to me?

I take hold checks all the time. Meaning you write me a check and then I hold it till you bring your bank check back to swap with me.

What if the purchase OTD cost of the car is slightly greater than the loan that I have with the bank? Do I just pay the difference right then and there to the dealer?

Yes, if the bank says the max you qualify for on a particular car is $20K and you need $21K then you right a check for that when you are taking delivery.

Be advised, if the bank says you are pre-approved for say $25K that does not mean $25K on any car. They will not loan you $25K on a $15K car, the car must fit the guide lines of the loan, so make sure you ask your banker what they are. Some do 80% of MSRP, some do 100%, and some do more. Just double check to make sure before you take delivery on a Saturday afternoon only to find out on Monday morning you need to come up with $3K.

fezo · September 2007

Hey! You are only one step off of the bobst method - and for a 5 yet!

Bases on about the last 20 posts there is much to be said for the bobst method. It's taken me a long time to not worry about which little pile of money can be reduced without increasing another pile.

When I bought the latest van I balked at the doc fee. The sales manager gave me the line about how they "have to" charge it and it "has" to be the same amount for everyone for fear of lawsuit, but he knocked that amount off the price of the van in the same breath. Fine. I'm not worried about how you get the number as long as it's the right number.

isellhondas · September 2007

We charge a 50.00 doc fee and everybody pays it including me.

I don't think I've ever heard a complaint about this.

master_ryu · September 2007

Thanks IsellHOndas and Joel,

One more question. Let's say my preapproved amount is $29,000 and the OTD cost comes to 31,000. Can I ask the dealer to leave the car there for the next couple of days until I return with the bank loan check and the remaining $2000? (or most likely something like a $24,000 loan check and $7,000 personal check).

epiney · September 2007

We charge a 50.00 doc fee and everybody pays it including me.

What price do you charge yourself? Do you ever complain about the grinding :P

im_brentwood · September 2007

Sir Fezo is right.. Im only 32.. been dealing with this, this time around, for about a year and a half now.

It stinks but ya do what ya do, right? And I am taking it easy.. some people I know have been incredibly supportive, some have been the absolute opposite.. one nitwit who I thought i was friends with is convinced I am faking it... he has a standing offer to come along with me when I go in for chemo.

epiney · September 2007

one nitwit who I thought i was friends with is convinced I am faking it... he has a standing offer to come along with me when I go in for chemo.

I think you should stick him into the machine :mad:

Take care...

roadburner · September 2007

Your in my thoughts and prayers, Bill.

roadburner · September 2007

Fine. I'm not worried about how you get the number as long as it's the right number.

Exactly. I show up with the check for the OTD price, sign all the necessary documents, and they deliver the car. End of story.

smithed · September 2007

I really enjoy reading posts you fellows write here. I'm a physician and, as a group, we get our knocks too. But most of the car salesmen I've met have seemed like decent fellows, trying to make a living. At least I didn't think they were lying to me.

Maybe I'm gullible. Actually, I think they know I read Edmunds and have some idea of what is going on. By the way, my services are discounted too, highly discounted. :shades:

stickguy · September 2007

Man, you are in the wrong part of Jersey. Get away from the shore, it is cheaper to the south!

I haven't bought in 2 years, but IIRC the doc fee was, at most, $119. The year before, different Honda dealer, similar money. Might have even been less.

Are you sure the $400 wasn't including the registration fee? The new 3 (or is it 4?) year registration was pretty steep, I think $239 or so? So if you put the doc fee with that, you are pushing $400.

$120 is still a lot, but probably not too far out of line for what they do. $400 is just a rip off though. Of course, if they just reduce the sales price to offset, who cares?

chuckhoy · September 2007

When I did this a few months ago, I told the bank what I wanted my limit to be. More of a safety precaution on my part. I got approved and I asked the loan guy that exact question. His response, after running my credit, was "I wouldn't worry about it. You're good for a lot more." I guess it depends on your situation. If the bank saidd that $29k was all you could get, I think you may be somewhat stuck. If you asked for $29k and there was no problem, you are probably good for more. I would just ask them.

fezo · September 2007

This particular dealer is one I normally don't work with and, of course, now I remember why.

I suspect that next time I may well decide that it's worth driving over toward Cherry Hill where I know a couple of more cooperative sorts.

Of course what I'm really expecting to do next time is have brentwood find me something nice. Had I realized at the time where he was I would have done that this time.

qbrozen · September 2007

Stickguy has it right, i think. I typically see about $150. I know I've seen $99, but I can't remember where. I believe the Dodge dealer we got my sis's Caliber from was like $239. I have argued doc fees on occassion. It all depends on the "deal" otherwise. In the case of the Dodge dealer, I complained at first, but in the end they came down to invoice minus rebate on the car (i was looking for invoice + $100) and they gave her $1k extra on her trade then we intended ... so I didn't bother arguing over the doc fee.

fezo · September 2007

There you go! As long as the number at the end is what you were looking for don't quibble about how they arrived at it.

michaellno · September 2007

Here in Colorado, the doc fees at the local Saturn store is $389.95! I don't know how much it is for other makes, since I've only bought Saturns for the past 5 years.

When we bought our VUE last month using our GMS discount, they reduced the selling price so that the doc fee worked out to be $75, which is what GM allows.

BTW, that $389.95 figure is hard-coded on the contracts, so I suspect that if you didn't want to pay it, the price of the car would be reduced by a like amount, as noted above.

dino001 · September 2007

Of course. Final number is one to look for. The contention starts when they state "the price is", "you pay", "we sell it for" $17K, but later you learn it is $17K+$500+$200+$150+TTL+whatever they can extract from you at F&I (which of course doesn't mean you have to give up).

jipster · September 2007

High doc. fees seem another way for dealerships to screw over their salesmen. It takes the $200-$500 that would have been put in the salesmens profit column and puts it in the dealerships. So what would have been a good deal for the salesman becomes a mini.

As a consumer I focus on the OTD price and let the dealership worry about what goes where. But, I do worry about you guys in the biz making ends meet. Perhaps you could ask for a % of doc. fees from your dealerships?

jmonroe · September 2007

...and they gave her $1k extra on her trade then we intended ...

C'mon, those guys never "give extra".

So admit it, your calculator needs new batteries ! :shades:

I couldn't resist

jmonroe

jb_turner · September 2007

Why do people get caught up in fees so much? it is the OTD price that matters..... If a dealer had a doc fee of 1k and the lowest OTD would you go for that dealer ot the dealer that had the lowest doc fee but highest OTD?

chikoo · September 2007

whoa....

My credit union just sends me a check for the dollar amount that I am approved for. I just have to fill in the VIN# and the dealer name and hand it to the dealer. Done!

joel0622 · September 2007

Thats great, but what does that have to do with the questions that were asked? If you were to fill the VIN in on a car that does not qualify for financing at your CU then the draft is useless. Unless you bank at the one CU in the world that has no stipulation on year model, miles, and loan to value.

lrguy44 · September 2007

I'm a physician and, as a group, we get our knocks too.

So when you bill someone, is that a Doc Fee? Can we negotiate that? :shades: :sick:

snakeweasel · September 2007

If I could only meet more people like that, not ones who start conversation with "what is your monthly payment now and how much do you want it to be?" .

I recently ran into someone who asked me if they could get me into the car I was looking at and keep my payments the same would I buy today. I was tempted to say "Yes if I didn't have to put anything down".

oldfarmer50 · September 2007

"...I'm a physician...my services are discounted too,highly discounted..."

OK doc I'll offer you $399 cash to fix my knees, that's my final offer or I'll walk..er...limp.

epiney · September 2007

Is that an out the door offer?

lrguy44 · September 2007

I totally refuse to pay the doc fee!

mackabee · September 2007

Thanks. Just for those three months. What really gets me is that one survey is all it took to take me down. And what really hurts more is that it was a referral customer. She is actually the roomate of one of our service advisors not the guy on the RAV4 as I originally thought. I sat down with our customer relations manager this morning and went over the surveys and found the culprit. I actually lost by tenths of a percent. The target was 94% and that survey dropped me to 93.75% Another thing, we have a used vehicle store which don't get surveys at all and I beat them out but yet a couple of the salespersons there are going.

Oh well, time to move on and go on to the next one. I remember when that survey came in our GM called me up to ask me what was up since we did everything possible to get this girl done. Her credit wasn't the greatest and we took the deal down to the bare bones, even discounted the extended warranties and pro-pack which she wanted. :confuse: She called me to apologize but it was before the contest ended and I had no idea that it was going to lose the trip for me at that time.
Mackabee

mackabee · September 2007

Dang Bill only 32? I thought I was young to come up with this disease. I'm praying for you too.

God bless. How many treatments did you have to go through? any surgery? You don't have to answer me here if you don't feel comfortable. E-mail me or message my carspace. Do you have any neuropathy?
Vic

mackabee · September 2007

Yeah, there are some very inconsiderate people out there. I remember one guy said this to me: "That's the best cancer to get if you're going to get cancer." another one said "You're going to die from it. It's just a matter of time. Once you get it you can never get rid of it." Gee thanks buddy, with friends like you who needs enemas.

Mackabee

master_ryu · September 2007

Just curious. To those in the business: what is the one thing that a customer could say to make you give in and reduce the price even further? "I'll buy now if you give me this price" "I'm comparing prices around town" "You're so good looking" heh

jmonroe · September 2007

Why do people get caught up in fees so much? it is the OTD price that matters.....

I hope you don't think I get hung up over a doc fee, because I don't. If the doc fee is too high have them back it out of the price; it's the only sensible thing to do or you can walk, right. FWIW I've already said the doc fee in PA is $55 and that I feel is a legit charge for that work.

If a dealer had a doc fee of 1k and the lowest OTD would you go for that dealer ot the dealer that had the lowest doc fee but highest OTD?

Is this a trick question, I've never been too good with word problems.

jmonroe

british_rover · September 2007

You would be proud I delivered a shinny 2004 Ford F-150 Super Cab to a guy this evening to replace his 1999 Silverado.

Oh and Craig you would feel bad because I took a couple out of a 2002 Odyssey and put them in a 2007 LR3 today as well.

micosilver · September 2007

Just curious. To those in the business: what is the one thing that a customer could say to make you give in and reduce the price even further? "I'll buy now if you give me this price" "I'm comparing prices around town" "You're so good looking" heh

"Further"? Do you mean you will make an offer, and then say " I will buy today if you will sell it even cheaper?"

You have a very weird perception of auto business..

im_brentwood · September 2007

Vic,

Yeah... 32.. got diagnosed right after Xmas 05. Had skin cancer, but b y the time my stupid butt got to the doctor it had speread to lymph nodes..etc. Twice we though we had it and I was in remision, this last time it's back again.. Metastises or whatever they call em popping up like Dandelions on my lawn.

Right now I'm 6 weeks into an 8 week regimen of chemo so we shall see... it makes me tired and cranky, which makes for, like.. Bill x 3 plus exhaustion.

Surgery? Yeah, lymph nodes, laproscopic, a laproscopic biopsy recently that got me a staph infection.. ad nauseum.

NO health insurance.. $260K+ so far :sick: It will be some time before I am back behind the wheel of an Italian car, but it was that or the alternative.

Stay positive, listen to your doctor and drink lots of scotch, works for me.

Bill

british_rover · September 2007

NO health insurance.. $260K+ so far It will be some time before I am back behind the wheel of an Italian car, but it was that or the alternative.

I try not to get political on this board but damn do we need health insurance reform.

You were lucky to be in the financial position to cover that kind of expense.

I was listening to NPR this morning or last and they talked about the new campaign the National Cancer Association it working on. You can listen to the story here.

Their research has found that because of advancements in treatment and prevention more people are dying of Cancer because of lack of health insurance then any other reason.

lrguy44 · September 2007

Works for me too - My bypass went ok but home health care did not catch the infection. At my 3 week check up the surgeon took one look at my chest and threw me back in the hospital. The infection got to my heart sack and my sternum disintegrated. one more major surgery to clean it up, 3 days on a ventilator and in coma, then the plastic surgeon sliced my pecs to make a sternum or me. $350k not including the 60 days of antibiotics. Thanks to work and Tricare (ret military) - $0 out of pocket. I was lucky and your day will come too.
It is tough not to get depressed - but remember, there are many people rooting for you. Keep plugging!

mackabee · September 2007

You've got it! Doc fees, CSI, VDQ, Full moon, you name it, they do it.
:sick:
Mackabee

mackabee · September 2007

Speaking of billing. I'm thinking of billing the prospects that didn't buy from me but wasted countless hours of my time.

How do you guys think it would go over if a person recieved this in the mail:

Auto consulting fee:
First hour; $100.00
any 15 minutes there after $35.00 rounded to the next 15 minutes.
Hours billed this visit: 2 hours
Your bill: $240.00
Previous balance $100.00
Total due upon receipt: $340.00
Please make check or money order payable to: Mackabee c/o Mackabee Auto consultants
$25.00 late fee for any bill not payable by due date.
$100.00 fee for bad checks.
We appreciate your business and hopefully you will avoid these charges by buying a car next time.

Mackabee

mackabee · September 2007

I would be leery of someone like that. Did this happen at the supermarket or the mall?

Mack

mjfloyd1 · September 2007

Bill,

?melanoma
?interferon

Stay positive buddy. Hope all works out for you.

Mark

chikoo · September 2007

Oh No. I do have to tell them make/model/approx mileage. The CU then send me the check, overnight Fedex.

snakeweasel · September 2007

Happened at a dealership.

Stories from the Sales Frontlines

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy