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If you have a net profit you cannot have a loss. Net profit is all revenues less all expenses in a given period.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Really? Tell me would you rather sell one car over a 10 day period with a $2K profit per car or two cars over a 5 day period with a $2K profit per car?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The only way you can not cut into another dealerships profits is to stop selling cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Then they shouldn't bug us who state from the get go that they are only looking and won't be buying.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In hindsight, it probably would have been better for him to call the DMV for his information but then the salesman would not have had the opportunity to turn a phone inquiry into a sale down the road. I know, you want us all to buy TODAY but that doesn't always happen. On my last new car it took two years between first contact and sale. I made sure to buy from the same salesman I had first spoken to because he had treated me right. If he thought I was a stroke or asked stupid questions he never let on. If he had "played dumb" or given me attitude I would probably not have sought him out.
Your responses confirm something I've suspected for a while. Auto salespeople must be under brutal pressure from management right now. It must be similar to the movie "Cadillac Man" where Robin Williams has to sell a certain number of cars to keep his job. Tactics like asking the salesman to reimburse the dealer for a missed up is why I went to work for myself. If feel sorry for anyone in sales these days. If I had any money I would go out and buy something.
BTW jmonroe, where I come from when you call someone a "cooch" you are insulting their manhood. If I were you I would drive down to where Moo does business and buy the most expensive thing on the lot---with cash! That will show him who's boss.
And to Moo, remember, it ain't some punk kid who can flash enough green to buy one of your cars.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
There is a serious disconnect betwen the sales folks and the customer side in here. I understand that a salesman wants to connect every up into a sale but that is plain unrealistic.
I actually wish I'd done jmonroe's trick of calling to ask what the document fee is. I tend to forget about that until it comes up and here's what should be a done deal that's back at a little bit of haggle. I hate that. It's been a few years since I bought from a dealer - maybe three - but the doc fee came up as a short issue. I hadn't been jipster about things at that point so there was room for them to just take it off the price of the car.
I was nearly ROTFLMAO with that comment.
I just got home from doing some shopping, ate, and decided to catch up on some post reading but before I was going to say to a poster EXACTLY what you said, I wanted to read all the posts that I missed. I’m glad I did. You took the words right out of my mouth.
To all you sales people out there:
Don’t take it out on a customer because you chose the profession you’re in. We or at least I never knew a phone call was so important. I remember a guy here (who shall remain nameless, he knows who he is) who once said if he were in your biz (having to live solely from commissions) he might consider buying the receptionist a lunch or three, candy, maybe even earrings (ok, I made that one up) if she could find her way to slip him more phone calls than his fellow salesman. Man, was he ever jumped upon for that one. Given that a guy could blow a call with a guy like me, just trying to confirm something, that may be the best way to survive in your biz.
Boy, the things one can learn from a site like this. :surprise:
BTW jmonroe, where I come from when you call someone a "cooch" you are insulting their manhood.
If I was at my fighting weight I might be able to do something about that. Leave it to a young car salesman to know who they can push around.
And to Moo, remember, it ain't some punk kid who can flash enough green to buy one of your cars.
Now that may be the best way to get his attention when I talk. You seem to be talking pretty good for me today, ‘farmer’.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
And I don't have a problem with any questions that might sound silly to me but might be important to a customer. But some of us salesguys were just giving everyone a play by play of what happenned behind the scenes when someone calls with various questions that don't result in an appointment, name, or phone number.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Do watch out though. There's a lot of us out there and we all have dumb questions....
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
You sure did fool me. I guess I was reading between the nouns/verbs.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Speak for yourself 'fez'. Mine was just "simple".
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I would like to sell 10 cars with a $10K profit, but that wasn't what the thread was about, was it? why don't you re-read and offer something of value?
Moo, I'm surprised at you---such a nice young man, loving father of a precious two year old---resorting to name calling. You know that this is not in your nature.
Moo isn't alone in this. Some of you others know better than to act that way. I thought that we learned long ago to agree to disagree but not to attack. As salesmen, you know how to be diplomatic. That's one reason you have been successful and respected.
I have been waiting for this to happen. All of you, admit it or not, are under tremendous pressure to produce. Government and big banks have laid you out to dry. You're angry, frustrated, and having a hard time. Try to remember that we feel the same way. I know that you need to vent. You should vent. Let's not take it out on each other. Though some of us are salesmen and some of us are customers, we have enjoyed the back and forth together. Let's continue in that vein.
Here's my take on what happened. Jmonroe had heard about the $65 increase but wasn't sure it was true. He figured that a dealership would know. He tried to get it verified. He got a little upset when he couldn't get a straight answer from the salesman. Perhaps it would have been better if he had used another source. Still, this sounds like something that I would have done. A salesman is the first person that would have popped into my mind. At least we now know how important those telephone calls must be. Don't be so hard on jmonroe. He loves cars like you do. Another thing is that jmonroe's age has nothing to do with what he does with his time or what information he wishes to collect. I believe that he, like me, still works part time for a living. We're not just some old people sitting in a nursing home with nothing better to do than make crank calls to a dealership. You know us better than this.
There are very few people on this thread that I wouldn't trust or that I don't respect. I don't want that to change. It is too hard to find such a group. To those of you who are salesmen, I want you to go to work tomorrow and be especially nice to people---especially to those over the age of 50.
Keep posting. At least jmonroe was worth about 100 posts. :P
Richard
If I recall correctly, and I do, the OP was about floor plan and insurance costs and whether to go high volume mini or low volume high profit.
You recall incorrectly the OP had nothing to do with that,
Now if you are referring to the post that you replied to (that led to me replying to you) the poster (Driver100) was talking about what is the best business model, high turnover with low profit margin or low turn over with a higher profit margin.
So reread your last portion of your post and follow your own advice.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I didn’t mention it but I tried a couple of other sources before turning to a dealership. You know you can’t always trust those guys to be straight forward
Another thing is that jmonroe's age has nothing to do with what he does with his time or what information he wishes to collect. I believe that he, like me, still works part time for a living.
Part time HELL. My employer has me working a full 40 hours a week. I’ve been doing this stint (my last) as a consultant with my old employer since May of 2007. Some of the people around here actually think I’m a regular. While I don’t do this for my health, Mrs. jmonroe likes the idea that I’m out of the house (she looks up at the ceiling and says, “thank you, thank you” more times than I can count). She didn’t like it when I wouldn’t raise my feet when she pushed the sweeper around said I caused her extra work, her sanity, and stuff like that.
At least jmonroe was worth about 100 posts.
I’m worth a lot more than that; just ask my employer.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
... high turnover with low profit margin or low turn over with a higher profit margin...
So why don't you enlighten me and explain your initial and somewhat sarcastic response:
Tell me would you rather sell one car over a 10 day period with a $2K profit per car or two cars over a 5 day period with a $2K profit per car?
Surely, as a CPA you understand the difference between low profit margin and high profit margin. Yet, you took the liberty to fire a one sentence response with a condescending tone with an example of high volume and low volume with THE SAME profit margin?
My point, if you are going to fire off multiple one line posts and dish out sarcasm, don't get your undies in a bunch when someone returns serve. If your initial response was not intended to be sarcasm, well then we can hug and move on.
You know, I just never thought of that. I don't know why I don't google things more often. It must be my generation. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. I should know better and it sure would have saved the aggravation that I placed on the sales guys here. Although the post numbers would have been down for this board and then our hosts commissions would have been down as well.
Oh well, you can't please everyone.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The bottom line is, old school still runs the show at most dealerships. Until those old guys die off the car business will be business as usual.
That is why I encourage consumers to make an educated offer instead of the lame old " I just want your best price".
I just don't understand, that's all.
I don't understand why the amount of the doc. fee increase would be such a big deal especially if you aren't about to pull the trigger on a new car.
Ther are a lot of things I don't understand and that's OK.
I don't understand why the color of a used car would be the almighty MOST IMPORTANT thing. I would think the condition and price would be much more important.
I don't understand why nearly every customer over the age of 60 can't believe cars don't come with full sized spare tires anymore.
I don't walk into a Barber Shop unless I want a haircut and I don't go into Best Buy unless I am there to buy something.
Before I was in this business, it usually took me a few days to decide what I wanted. Not months or years but that's me!
I guess this is why restaurants have menus, we are all different.
We have hired salespeople in the past who have worked in horrible stores and I can't believe the stories they can tell.
I wouldn't have lasted a week.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I never said it was “such a big deal”. I just wanted to know what it was. Just wanted to be informed so I wouldn’t be one of those customers that car salesman hate to deal with when my turn in the barrel comes.
I don't understand why the color of a used car would be the almighty MOST IMPORTANT thing. I would think the condition and price would be much more important.
I’m with you on that one. I bought my fair share of used cars while I was in the process of trying to feed a few mouths. I knew I had to give up something for a good reliable used car although I did get lucky a few times and got exactly what I wanted but I had to buy privately for those.
I don't understand why nearly every customer over the age of 60 can't believe cars don't come with full sized spare tires anymore.
Alright then, try to splain that one to me why don’t ya.
BTW, go google “pennsylvania car document fee” like ‘speterson1’ ask me to do in post 39905. I think it’s hit no.9 (right below the one for PA). It looks like you guys in WA are in for a windfall also, but I’m sure you knew about this.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Just yesterday our UCM bought a 2008 at the local auction. We usually don't buy domestics but he was able to get a great deal on it.
I thought of Richard and I looked it over and sat in it. Very very nice car! Only 14,000 miles. Silver with a black top.
I hadn't heard anything about raising doc. fees in WA until I read that article.
One more thing for people to complain about I suppose if it happens.
I don't see how an extra 100.00 per car deal will save a failing store.
My name is XXXXXX, internet manager for XXXXXX, XXXXXX's NEWEST Honda dealer. I have some exciting pricing and trade values to share with you but, the number you provided; 555-555-5555 does not seem to be working. You are welcome to give me call to discuss pricing, but I will not provide pricing to someone who will not share accurate information with me.
I got the following reply back today:
Within my initial email, I included a phone number that was not correct, as I prefer not to be contacted by phone. Your rude reply was enough to ensure that I will not purchase a vehicle of any sort from either your or anyone else at a dealership that employs such tactics. Do not contact me again, either by phone, email or postal mail. I will consider any such contact harrassment.
I looked back at six months worth of leads and found that my closing percentage for people who provide false information was ZERO.
So dealers, how do you address these leads(which you probably paid $20.00 for)?
Just this past weekend when I was helping Son #1(the car geek) with a plumbing repair he tells me he's going to go to one of these road course things in PA. I’m pretty sure he said it was called Beaver Run not too far from here. It’s a 12 turn track (?) that you have to take a least a one hour class prior to going out with an instructor. He’s going to run his V6 Altima around on this course. I guess he didn’t learn his lesson when he did rally racing a few times with his first new car, 91’ Grand Prix. That car died, engine and transmission at the same time, in the spring of 97’. He assured me that this kind of track isn’t at all like rally racing, just a real fun thing to do. He’s a big boy now so I don’t tell him what to do but, boy, you should have heard his mother when he mentioned racing.
I said I’d try to find out about this since I thought I heard you say you were involved with this kind of stuff (instructor ?). He also said he wanted to let his 7 year old go out on a kids track in one of these suped up lawnmower engine buggy things. So, how do I go about scraping Grandma off of the ceiling? :confuse:
FWIW, he said if he gets turned onto this he might even think about getting a BMW since he's heard they're great at this. I knew you'd like that part.
Any help would be appreciated.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'll make this my last post on the matter. I stand behind everything I said. I'm not making any judgement calls except for what I read on here. I can't vouch for anything the salesperson did or how he acted. I wasn't there. What I can go off of is the way that Jmonroe is acting. His mentality is one of a "chooch" or a "grinder". For some reason, $65 was a big deal to him and even though he is not buying, he decides to rattle some cages at the dealership. Why? I'll never know.
The salesman could have been the biggest jerk in the world. I can't talk to him about it though because he isn't on here. I can talk to Jmonroe and he acted out of line.
I'm not mad at him. I'm just disappointed.
Also, we get many e-leads that you know are just a result of dreaming and surfing. Although the closing ratio is again zero, all responses are polite.
It is not surprising that the follow up phone call or e-mail results in "oh, my 13 year old son must be surfing again". Closing ratio on all e-leads - good month 10% - normal 5-8% The vast majority of e-leads are not serious.
When I was an uneducated buyer, I would get peeved when I sent an email for an internet quote and get a phone call reply. While I never sent wrong info, I just tried not to give any. With a better realization of the IQ process, I understand your pain.
These days, when IQ shopping, I provide the full gambit of info, name, rank and serial number. I have no problem getting a phone call first. I have found by doing this it really forces the salesman to show his cards. If I get a detailed email response, I will continue to deal with that dealership. If I get the Bob Barker "come on down" spiel I move on.
Now, your guy was just an [non-permissible content removed]. But some people for various reasons just can't get calls during the day or may not want others to know they are car hunting.
I always preferred to get an email first acknowledging my email with a courtesy request to place a call to me, and allow me to leave a window for a good time to call.
You'll be glad to hear this. We're going to trade the Explorer in another year. I'm going to get my wife that CRV that she loves so much. She deserves some compensation for my car antics.
Richard
PS: Thanks roadrunner!
I will always try at least one phone call before I trash them. E-mails cannot replace conversation to get all the info in a timely fashion - and to build a relationship.
When family and friends ask me BEFORE they buy a car, I'll be as candid as I can.
That said, I think a person should buy a car THEY like and not something someone else thinks is best for them.
Had you asked my opinion before buying I would have shared it with you.
Enjoy!
If by chooch or grinder you mean a pretty savvy car buyer then I agree.
IMO anyone who will not answer a question as harmless as the one asked by jmonroe is not to be trusted...at all...and I would be gone at that point.
$65. a big deal? Well I have heard more than one salesperson here say they would let a customer walk over a set of floor mats. So I guess it depends on who's $65. we are talking about.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'll call and leave four messages and send three emails and hear nothing in return.
If they insist on giving me a bad phone number they should at least make it look bogus instead of picking numbers at random.
I think a lot of just think it was a total waste of time for him to bother someone with such a trivial call when he already seemed to know the answer and wasn't even in the market to buy a car.
As far as 65.00? There have been times when a customer has managed to grind every last cent out of a deal to the point there isn't any more to give.
Now, as you say, if the doc fee is the only thing standing in the way of a deal, particularly on a Porsche, then I would find a way to work around it.
So, is asking about the doc fee an opportunity to qualify a prospect? Or, would you consider such a request a mere "stroke"?
I don't disagree with your assessment, btw.
Just as an update, I think I got the last call from the Hyundai dealership last night. They called and said we were $2,500 apart on the deal (down from $3,000 apart the day before). This was from the SM. I politely thanked him and his sales person for their time and said I couldn't move any higher than my original offer.
SM said he didn't have any more room to "overallow for the Tahoe". He had already told me he was "to the bone" on the demo Genesis I liked.
The SM in turn thanked me for the opportunity and to keep them in mind if I'm ever in the market, again.
Here are the final numbers on a Burgandy over black Genesis V6 with Tech Package....demo with ~3,000 miles....MSRP $40,300 (inc some sort of "wing" emblems replacing the Hyundai logo).
My offer...
-'07 Tahoe LTZ w/~40K miles
-$10K check + TTL (and $250 doc)
Their offer....
-My Tahoe
-$12,500 check + TTL and doc
Nice dealership. Nice people. Great car.
NO DEAL!
>After meeting with PIADA and discussing our dealer's concerns, PAA agreed to amend theprevious draft legislation to allow a maximum licensing cost of $140 for electronic documentary preparation, and a maximum $100 licensing cost for non-electronic documentary preparation.
40.pdf
If played right, is there any advantage for the internet buyer vs. the walk in, from your perspective?
Solution to your problem? You need a web developer to update your website so that they use a telephone verification system such as this
http://www2.telesign.com/faq.php
"TeleSign's Telephone Verification Service forces users to provide you with a working, traceable telephone number. This effectively de-anonymizes your users and stops fraud. When using TeleSign's Telephone Verification and PhoneID services together, you can even limit the types of phone numbers users can give you. For example, you can stop users from entering VOIP phone numbers or require that they provide only mobile phone numbers. "
I get those leads too but give them opportunity of doubt that they miswrote the phone number and mention it in the reply email.
A lot of my email replies are:
-------------------------------------------------
Thanks for inquiring,, blah blah, this is what you'll get by dealing with my internet dept:
- I list a bunch of free stuff/benefits
The stock number, make model, you inquired about is in stock. We also haver similar models that you might be interested in.
What kind of info can I provide you on this vehicle, or if you prefer would you like to set up a time to meet and see it in person?
--------------------------------------------------------------end
I had a manger who had a good line to say to anyone who wouldn't provide me a name or phone number.
"If we can't get past the simple stage of exchanging our names and phone numbers, how am I going to sell you a car?"
And as for your uptight email shopper, although he told you not to contact him, I'd send him an email anyways, just cause he's an idiot. In it I'd write " Judging by your first email you wouldn't have bought a car from us anyways, as those who are serious provide real contact info. Good luck shopping."
I seriously doubt you'd get in trouble, or that he'd file harassment charges. If he did, just say you missed the last line.
I had people who bugged me to send them photos of cars, which I went out, took,, uploaded, and sent, only to be blocked by them :surprise: Idiots.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I'll try to get them to make an offer with a commitment to buy. And if my manager accepts the offer, I'll try to get a deposit over the phone or email right away. I prefer it that way instead of throwing randon numbers into thin air hoping the numbers will please the buyer, and waiting for a response.
This works well for buyers who know what they want, don't need to drive it, and just want to finish up the buying process.
Otherwise I don't bother shooting prices over email, as 99.99% of the time it results in nothing.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Being high end, most of our customers have already hit Auto Trader or our web site before they come in.
Maybe that will work better?
You’re right about that so I guess you’ll have to take my word for it but lets suppose you (as a future car buyer) had made the call and got the “deflection” (your word) or in my word a less that forthright answer, how would you have felt about this? I’ll go right back to what I said before, you guys preach about wanting an informed customer but do you really? I guess a buyer should only do their research away from the dealership/salesman and only show up to lay down for the sale.
What I can go off of is the way that Jmonroe is acting.
I wasn’t “acting” in any particular way. I find it impossible that you can’t understand that I was merely trying to get some information. Never knew until all these posts by salesman that a phone call was all that important.
His mentality is one of a "chooch" or a "grinder".
So, you’re still into name calling I see.
For some reason, $65 was a big deal to him and even though he is not buying, he decides to rattle some cages at the dealership.
Didn’t I already answer that, a couple of times?
I can talk to Jmonroe and he acted out of line.
I'm not mad at him. I'm just disappointed.
Now you know how I feel.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl