By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Not until now, anyway.
That does it, I'm going straight to the hosts here to have his dues increased if he continues to talk about me like that. :mad:
BTW, I see you go buy the handle 'golic'. You're not one of the Mike and Mike guys on that ESPN radio show I listen to in the morning are ya? Nah, probably not. He'd be too busy for this stuff.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I expected hand-wringing and contrition. I have lurked on this board long enough so that I should have known better. :sick:
Since no one else has said it, allow me to say, "Good post!"
Ah, c'mon Captain, not you too !! :confuse: I wasn't really "concerned", I was just trying to confirm what a fellow PA guy said here last week. That's all, it's just that simple.
Good to have you back here though.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But I must say that in my 15 plus years in the car biz I have never seen anyone so concerned over Doc fees ... It really is not a big deal.
So your customers are less proactive than Mr Monroe... okay. You sell Land Rovers, right? :shades:
He wants an A4 Avant. A car that here in Texas is like the Easter Bunny, and Santa Clause, a figment of your imagination.... He has to have a certain color, certain trim, and the car can't have been test driven. I find a couple due to hit port, but the store they belong to won't give them up. I find his second color choice here in town at another lot. So we begin to talk price, he of course "just wants the best price" I get an offer out of him that's just below invoice [not gonna happen] but before this, he wants to know the name and phone number of the store who won't give up his first choice. I give it to him because I have no fear of them selling the car to him under invoice, or him getting on a plane to Colorado to go get it because he has a trade here.
I give him willingly the competition's number, 10 minutes later I get a call from the service rep saying that Bob had left a message and wanted to get the same #'s from him I guess because he didn't think I was giving him a valid phone# [dip $%#@ should have tried it, he would have found out I wasn't lying to him] and wanted advice on how he should deal with me. Should he continue what he was doing, or be "up front" with me.
So, this guy is going through Audi brand specialists like there is no tomorrow trying to accomplish Lord knows what, and acting like everyone is trying to screw him. All the while we are just scratching our heads thinking, what is this idiot thinking?
Where is my motivation to sell him a car? I'll make a $200.00 mini, he'll give me a bad survey, and it will cost me $800.00-$1000.00 to sell this guy a car.
So yes, we want educated customers, If you don't trust what we say, then check facts some place else, but don't waste my time, and burn through people trying to get something that's a figment of your imagination..............
That's an odd approach. If they sign that they are ready to buy today, that's not a binding contract on a worksheet. But you're using lack of a signature there to not give a realistic price; if the price were right they might be buyers that day.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I wouldn't waste my time.
I had a similar guy here in the showroom a few months ago. I don't take floor ups but I upped him cause everyone was busy. Wouldn't even give me his name. :confuse: I answered all his questions, he wanted best price, I offered a test drive, he accepted, and when asked him for his driver's license, he suddenly ran out of time, and had to go. I gave him a brochure, and on the way, out of my sight, he left the brochure at the service dept desk, as if he wasn't even interested in the vehicle.
Like wtf? What are we doing here? What am I a town entertainer for morons that are bored?
And this guy you dealt with, anyone that blows through salespeople will ALWAYS be unhappy and NOTHING will please him EVER.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
None the less, an interesting one for the history books............
I don't think anybody "jumped on him" We just responded.
Come to think of it, in 14 years, I have never had anyone callor show that level of interest over a doc fee either.
"Do not contact me again, either by phone, email or postal mail. I will consider any such contact harrassment."
Tell me was there some indication that the preferred method of contact be something other than phone? It's rather irritating to have to give out my number when I want to conduct the business via e-mail and have several unwanted phone calls. Especially since you calling me is on my dime.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
1. Why provide a false phone number instead of no number?
2. Why a fake name?
3. Why not say in the initial e-mail (as some do) the a return e-mail is preferred?
There is nothing gained by a lie on either side of the equation.
I got a machine generated E-mail saying someoen would be in contact with me. I then get one that says come up and talk. I specifically said in the first E-mail that I was 100 miles away and needed answers to questions before I would travel that far to look at a car. I get another E-mail saying to come up followed a few days later by a message left on my machine to come up and talk.
I decided they weren't interested in selling the car.
After all we’ve learned about phone calls the last two days you’d think a salesman would be the last person who would want to call someone without prior approval. Don’t they know the trouble that could be brought down upon an everyday person by doing that?
I guess when the shoe is on the other foot it fits just fine. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Within my initial email, I included a phone number that was not correct, as I prefer not to be contacted by phone. Your rude reply was enough to ensure that I will not purchase a vehicle of any sort from either your or anyone else at a dealership that employs such tactics. Do not contact me again, either by phone, email or postal mail. I will consider any such contact harrassment.
I think it is unrealistic to expect a car salesperson to spend a half hour preparing a price quote, and you being upset at a five minute phone call.
Until car dealers come up with a true internet buying site, where you pick the car you want, go to the check-out page, and give your credit card deposit, and bank information for a wire transfer or credit application to finalize the purchase, you really need to talk to someone.
But that's just me.
Now watch the idea of a relationship get attacked!
If my kids ever put me in a home that's EXACTLY what I'm gonna do all day. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I acknowledge that I think this was an unusually wacky dealership.
This article from Edmunds seems to indicate that a doc fee of over $100 is excessive.
Edmunds Daily
Doc Fees Explained
We got an email from a buyer in North Caroline who said he offered TMV to a Lexus dealer for a 2006 GS300 AWD. They said they would consider the TMV number plus North Carolina tax, tag ( $69.00) and documentary fee ($399.00).
The buyer asked us to explain the components of TMV so he could decide if he is being taken over the coals or being treated fairly.
Here's the breakdown...
New car buyers pay for the car which is represented as our TMV price plus state and local sales tax, registration fees and a document fee. In some areas the "doc fee" is capped by the state at a certain amount, usually $100 or less. In areas were there is no regulation of the doc fee some dealers use this as a way to make extra profit. This allows them to quote a low price on the car knowing they will make money on the doc fee. That's why, when you are quoted a price that sounds good, you should ask what your "out the door" price is before you agree to anything. This will reveal hidden fees such as inflated doc fees, other bogus charges or the cost of alarms that are basically unnecessary. If you are getting a great deal on the car, you can swallow a high doc fee. But if you are at TMV already, a $399 doc fee is unacceptable. After all, a doc fee is literally to cover their cost of preparing the contract. Is this worth $399? Go to another dealership or tell them you will only pay TMV plus a reasonable doc fee – about $100.
To read it; doc fees
I would conclude that a phone call to ask what the doc fee will be is a fair question. And, if it wastes a salespersons time or if a dealership doesn't have a descent or fair way to talk to a perspective customer about it, the dealership has a problem. If they would penalize a salesman because he couldn't turn a simple question into a sale that dealer should be out of business anyway.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
a local dealer has what my wife wants, small suv with the exact equipment she is looking for.
it is a volvo/lincoln/mercury dealer and i have never dealt with them before.
i saw another vehicle at the ford dealer i use for service and have bought many vehicles from in the past.
we like it except for the fake chrome wheels ford has now.
i don't really like the sales person i will be dealing with, but i want to give them a shot.
too much stuff going on this weekend, so i will send an email for a quote next week. i bought a car 5 years ago from this guy starting with an internet quote, but i bought my last one from someone else and didn't feel bad because of the poor sales experience i had at that time. because i know so many people working at this dealership, i will give them another try.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Why would your local dealer know what the sales tax is in another area? Call a dealer in the other area and ask them.
What list are you talking about?
Which two shall I answer?
1. Why provide a false phone number instead of no number?
Could the inquiry have come from a site that requires a phone number? If so the you have enter a phone number. My recent purchase I originally contacted them through their website that required a phone number.
2. Why a fake name?
Depends on who is making the inquiry, Well known people do often hide their identity as not to draw attention to themselves or not to have someone take advantage of them.
3. Why not say in the initial e-mail (as some do) the a return e-mail is preferred?
Yeah like that works. Try it some time and let us know if it works.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think it is completely realistic to expect not to be called if you request not to be called. Remember a phone call is very intrusive while an e-mail is not.
you really need to talk to someone.
True but I don't need to talk directly to someone in the initial stages of the purchase.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
So if you are busy when they call, tell them when it's convenient, or offer to call back.
True but I don't need to talk directly to someone in the initial stages of the purchase.
I think the sooner you actually "talk directly to someone" the better the chances of getting exactly what you want.
You're the one buying a car. You're the one asking for information, including confidential pricing info, and asking to be contacted. Nobody is cold calling you and "intruding" unexpectedly trying to pitch a car sale at dinner time. Nobody picked your name and number randomly out of the phone book. You initiated the contact.
If you don't want the "intrusion" or to be contacted, or remain anonymous, there's plenty of sites out there, one of them which we're on, that can provide you with more info than most salespeople might know about the vehicle of your dreams.
Sooner or later you'll need to give your name, number, address, and other info. The sooner we get to that, the sooner we can move on with the details of the transaction. The only reason I see someone hiding their identity with such inquiries, is because they have no intention of coming here and buying from me.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Why have a website at all then?
If a dealership isn't 100% into internet sales, please pull the plug on the website. (especially if you don't bother to list trim, colors, options, etc.... I can make the educated guess that a Honda dealer has a few Accords in stock and the BMW place has a 3 series sitting around)
Jmonroe, I personally don't see the big deal about calling a dealer and asking a 30 second question, if for no other reason than to find out just for the hell of it. Good grief. :sick: :confuse: Anyone in the business over 48 hours should have known the answer off the top of their head. I'm sorry if that cost someone an "up." If it did, it's a ridiculous way to "allocate" customers. A customer shouldn't be intimidated from window shopping or asking questions, whether they are 6 hours or 6 months from making a purchase, on account of some internal allocation system.
Amazon is 100% into internet sales. They have product to buy, then you check out. Done deal. No test driving the merchandise, no legal documents to sign, no DMV requirements.
All you can hope to do on the internet is gather some information, and some dealers make it easier than others. Do they like sending out quotes? Most assuredly not. Why? It simply drives down margins. They would rather have you sitting across the desk with the hots for that new car.
But I really think some folks are cheap, and cast too wide a net in the all important quest to save a few bucks. They will knock themselves out to save a hundred bucks.
As for fees, I agree 100%. Anyone on the sales floor should be able to answer that question in about 5 seconds. As far as the why's and wherefore's, that is up to the owners, and I doubt the sales staff can do a thing about it, so there is no point in asking. Seems to me there is a seperate topic on Doc Fees somewhere on this board.
All IMHO, of course.
What I meant was that they have a dedicated department fully committed to conducting as much as possible via the internet: having accurate and descriptive inventory online, quoting firm OTD prices, etc. as opposed to the internet model that is just a modern version of "come on down and lets talk."
Do they like sending out quotes? Most assuredly not.
Then don't create a "front" and pretend as though you do. Someone soliciting RFQ's has no desire to dance the old dance or else they would have driven down to the lot to be "upped."
You've stumped me now....if they don't want a quote, what on God's green earth are they asking for?
If he was from across town, I would give him the lowest possible price I could.
Make sense?
Seriously, this is just too hard. I like to be in the drivers seat. The info is out there. Do research, find your price, then use the Bobst method. Has always worked for me.
I do think it's a little snarky to ask the dealership to do the legwork for them to acquire the car they want from the competition. I certainly wouldn't be too forthcoming with information about the other dealership.
Then again, if you really want to stick it to the competing dealer, I would indeed give the potential customer the information and let them deal with it.
I've always had a deal already done on a dealer trade before the trade was physically made. It was always predicated on my final inspection and test drive, however.
That said, I did have a deal fall through on a car for my son (before we bought his Hyundai). It was on a Nissan Sentra. In that case, we came to a deal. The options (or lack thereof as it was a "stripper") was at another Nissan store, in the same city, owned by the same dealer principal, but was at a different Nissan store across town.
Car is delivered to the local dealership. My son and I go to inspect and test drive. We go to get he paperwork finished. And magically $300 shows up on the deal that wasn't disclosed before.
"What's that for?"
"Mr GG that's the cost of transport to bring the car in to our store".
"It's only 20 miles away. If I had known you were going to charge me for that, I would have gone to your other store to begin with".
Things got a bit heated as I balked and backed out of the deal. They said I had agreed to the deal based on final inspection and test drive (which I did). They also said it was "binding". I did give them $250 as a deposit based on the terms laid out, which was supposed to go towards the purchase price.
Finally, the General Manager got involved. I explained to him that at no time did I agree to pay a fee for the car to be driven across town to the local dealership. He went into a monolog about how they had to pay for a driver to go pick up the car.
As I always get copies of all paperwork I sign, the GM and I go through the deal sheet, what I signed and the terms (final inspection and test drive), and final numbers. Nowhere was it disclosed that I would pay for having it driven from one dealership to another (again, owned by the same person).
The GM agreed to waive the fee. But, the damage was done. I decided I didn't want to do business with a store(s) that did business like that. I was then turned back over to the SM to unwind the deal and for me to get my deposit back. He wasn't real happy, but I didn't care. He told me that they gave me everything I wanted and that I should go through with the deal. I wasn't about to at that point.
To add insult to injury, they said they couldn't refund the deposit as they could only do it by check (I left a CASH deposit). Frustrated, I told them to issue the check the next business day. I waited for it to show up in my mailbox....one day, two days, a week. No check.
By this time, I'm beyond mad. I pay a visit to the store again. I bypass the Sales person, the SM, and park myself in the GM's office (who wasn't there at the time). I wait until he arrives (about 20 minutes later) and demand my deposit in cash. He does a little two step about how it has to go through the business office which was at the HQ office (and also happened to be at the store where the Sentra was transferred from.
I didn't budge. I wasn't leaving until I had my deposit. He makes one last ditch effort to save the deal. I refuse. Finally, the GM goes to some office at his store and comes back with $250 in cash.
I leave without a handshake or a good bye.
Never do business with that store, or any of the stores under their banner (which is quite a few stores).
I tried to imagine what I would do if I had to unload that many vehicles and price keeps being the variable most likely to adjust. Auction seems likely to move a lot in a short time since they all have expiration dates (model years) stamped on the VIN. I'm thinking half MSRP or maybe half invoice.
Something has to unclog the ports, abandoned airports and test tracks already storing these unsold units away from public view. Dealers may or may not get a crack at this super sale, but it has to happen and soon. Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
-- I don't think that is a fair strategy. If you invest considerable amount of time with one guy then after you get the price, pick up the phone to give another salesman a deal for 5 minutes for $100??
1. They added an undisclosed fee to your agreement AFTER the deal was finalized (signed)
2. They rescinded the fee when you complained about it (even though they gave you some garbage about it first)
So, why didn't you buy the car? My assumption is that the test drive went well or the deal would have been called off for that.
If the other dealer was owned by the same group, why couldn't you have gone there instead?
That all said, $300 for a driver to bring the car across town (20 miles) is ludicrous at first - let's look at those numbers (snake, help me out here if I make a mistake).
-Getting a car involves 2 drivers (the guy who brings your car back has to get there somehow)
-One driver drives 40 miles (both ways) and the other drives 20 (your car)
-Total miles are 60 ($5 per mile)
-Total hours are about 2 (overestimating, but it is a city), so the cost is $75/hour
-Let's say the dealer pays these drivers about 15% of the fee, or $11.25/hour
I want to get into this racket - that fee is, in fact, exorbitant!