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He was running screamer ads on how we're out to rip you off, and what names we call you behind your back. You know, the typical sleazy car salesperson things that will wind you up and confirm your opinions if you hate our profession already. :lemon:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Had dinner with a group of friends last night. One of the people in attendance, whom I had just met, was relaying how he used to work for AIG as a risk evaluator (not sure what that means). Well, you can imagine what turn that conversation took. He's got his own take....none of it good, regarding AIG.
Probably a bit of sour grapes since he was let go from AIG about 7 months ago.
Anyway, he now works for some sort of credit collections agency. He's not real pleased about that. He did agree that it put food on the table, however. He offered some unique insight about the current credit crunch. First, he said that collections agencies are doing a booming business. No surprise there.
Someone quizzed him about their "collections techniques". First, he said that credit collections agencies will do more telephone collections than doing so through the mail.
He said their telephone people are instructed to get the delinquent person on the phone any way possible. The goal is to first, make contact. He said that's the most difficult part, as most, upon learning a collection agency is calling, do some crazy things. He said some pretend they speak a foreign language and are unable to understand the collections caller. He said some fein no knowledge that they owe anyone anything. He said many give the collections caller their "sob story" (his words).
He said 90% of those they contact have lost their jobs.
But, after making contact, it's their job to get money.....any money....from the delinquent person. They do that a number of ways. One was to get the delinquent person to transfer their debt to a credit card which has available credit. Another way was to get the delinquent person to give the collections caller their checking account, or savings account number so they can automatically deduct a set amount from the account. He said the collections agency will deduct the money until the account no longer has a balance.
I asked him about reports of "high pressure" tactics like threats made to the delinquent person. He kind of "him hawed" around about that tactic, but insinuated that they do indeed practice that technique. He wouldn't tell me what those threats might be.
All in all, I was fairly shocked by what I heard. I hope I'm never in a situation where I can't meet my financial obligations. But, knowing that there are people who are in dire straights (like a neighbor of mine), through no fault of their own, I can empathize with the delinquent people.
I never used to feel that way. You owe, you pay, regardless. I still believe you must pay your debts.
But, knowing what I know regarding places like AIG, and hosts of other financial institutions, who take public money for their own personal gain, I've changed my tune a little bit.
This fellow seemed nice enough. Clearly, he's been hardened by both his own misfortune, as well as what he now does for a living. Harassing down on their luck people is something I think should be put on a temporary moratorium, at least until the financial companies get their own houses in order, and off the public payroll (via bailouts).
Hmmm...you mean names like "chooch"?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Many violate federal laws about collections and contacts. Clark Howard recommends to tell them to bug off and not contact debtor again because so many of them try to get an account number under the pretense of settling the debt for a portion as total payment then withdraw the full amount, if possible. A certified letter is required to mandate them not to contact again under penalty of law. IF they wish to contact, they can always sue.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The problem with this, is that it is usually not standard practice for a company to turn someone over to collections after a bill is not paid in 30 days. Collection is typically a last resort, since a vendor is now only going to collect a fraction of what can be recovered.
I would venture to say, that the "harassment", could be avoided in most cases if the person would simply pick up the phone and work out a payment arrangement with the vendor as soon as they aware they can not meet an obligation.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
imid....that's the impression I got from this fellow about how they operate. Get access to an account (checking/savings), then drain it. I don't know if that's legal or not. But, he said that they collect fees, late charges, etc, as part of the debt, too.
When I asked what those other fees and charges were, he rattled off a litany of them.
golic....I agree with you. If there are issues, regardless of the cause, that cause someone to fall behind, the best thing to do is to contact the lender to come to an amicable agreement and understanding.
That said, this guy said he worked for U.S. Bank collections. I don't know if he worked for the bank itself? Or, an entity that's contracted with them. I didn't even know that U.S. Bank had any offices around my 'burg, other than the ones I see in the local grocery stores.
If he works for U.S. Bank directly, that means these tactics are sanctioned by the bank itself?
All I know is it all sounded just a bit sleazy to me.
Same technique the sales guys use when you make an internet inquiry. Maybe the collection agency should ask the deadbeats to "come on down".
"...He wouldn't tell me what those threats might be..."
They probably tell the debtor that they'll send Jipster over to their house to read his car buying book out loud, cover to cover. I'd pay to avoid that. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Whatever the collection agency gets over their cost for this bundle is profit for them.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Bingo, I'm the same way with all the recent financial turmoil. I heard AIG employess were told not to wear any clothing that says they work for AIG.
Regarding tactics used, my elderly mother was contacted for an outstanding debt that was fictitious, I know it was not valid, as my brother and I handle her finances. They intimidated her so much that she gave her finicancial account information. Luckily we were able to put a hold on things before any loss. It's a very common scam. These guys are in the same boat as the AIG execs that caused this mess.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Can't tell I don't trust them, huh?
I knew I wantedshe wanted.Son # 1 wouldn’t let this thing die. He’s the one that went out on the internet to find exactly what she wanted. He gave me the name of the place and I took it from there. I called the internet guy and told him his price was good but I wanted him to do better since I always found those internet prices to be a good starting point, like when I bought in 05’ and 06’. That didn’t work this time because the guy said they were all in on that price. I had to believe him because it was a great price. I told him I’d be trading you know who’s 06’ Sonata with 12,800 miles and other than needing a right side mirror that the main driver destroyed about 4 months after she got it, that car was near perfect (I told that tale already so I won’t repeat it, because this is a bonified sales story). I described the car and asked for a price before I was willing to drive to Ohio.
I know the sales guys hate to do this but I said that before I had a price, based on how I described it, I wasn’t willing to make the trip. I told him I needed a starting point so he went off and came back with a price they would give me. I said that is a good starting point but I felt my car was worth more. He said that is the maximum they would give me based on my description. That price was not bad either but this car was in great shape so I figured once they saw it they would give me more so I gave him a deposit on the Genny to hold it and said I’d drive over on Saturday. I also made it clear that the deal would be contingent on my satisfaction with the test drive and we would talk about the whole deal when I got there.
Of course Son #1 was going to go too, he wanted to see me finish what he started. On the drive over he said, “hey, don’t screw this up over a couple hundred bucks, OK ?
When I got there the guy agreed it was all I said it was but he was holding to his price of $9K (I know I said $9400 over in Real world Trade in Values but I found out I was wrong when I looked at my notes). I said I wanted more and he said wait a second. I thought he was going to get me a better price but he comes back with a print-out from KBB that showed that the “Excellent Price” was $9125 (which I also saw when I did my research) and he said that is with a good mirror. Since we are now into justifying prices, I showed him the Edmunds print-out which showed a higher price than his KBB paper. He then said, “yeah, there are all kinds of numbers out there but this is what WE go by. I’ve heard the same thing but I said I wanted more than his offer. Remember that bit about, “if you don’t ask you don’t get”, so I asked. He then asked me what I wanted and I said $9,600. He goes off again and I’m thinking ‘jmonroe, get ready for some horse trading’. He comes back and says, “will $9,600 do the deal?” I said yes and he said lets write it up. :surprise: I guess I left some money on the table but he met my price, nothing wrong with that.
The more I think about this the more I’m convinced that he wanted my car, to put on his lot as a super clean CPO (after they replaced the mirror) as much as I wanted his Genny. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s the only explanation I can think of. I can almost hear the conversation with a buyer when the buyer doesn’t like their price and they say, “look, we’re into it for more than that”. Oh, to be a fly on the wall paper that day.
That car is everything I have read about it, period. I better be careful with that thing or I’m going to have a bald spot on the back of my head from continuously hitting the head rest. You have to drive this car to believe it.
‘graph’, you said you drove the V6 and it was pretty good. Well, you now have my opinion on the V8, WOW !!
I let my son drive it back to the Burgh and he wasn’t disappointed either.
I hope I didn’t bore anyone with a real sales story.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Everyone says the v8 is even better. Congratulations on a fine new ride and I want a continuing honest assessment of this baby over the coming months.
There are a couple of guys on one of the Genesis boards that go on and on about how bad the suspension on the Genny is. I think they are full of it and probably work for Acura or Infiniti or someone like that. I sure did not notice any problems with the one I drove. Your impressions would be appreciated.
Jmonroe......stealth millionaire !!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
After so much time, both you and Richard buy new cars in a span of weeks? There's hope for the US economy after all.
Best of luck with the car and glad you had a pleasant car buying experience.
I don't believe it! Some people take a year to decide and some pull the trigger before you even know it (just joking Richard-your consternation paid off actually).
Congratulations, JM, it sounds like a great car and the color choice should look good.
Now you have really raised the ante here, who's next?
Thanks for helping the economy too.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I do like the Genesis a lot. That "cabernet" color is the one I like the best, too. I know you had a trade involved, but what price did you get? DId you get the "Tech" package?
Things are heating up I guess. I got a call from the Acura salesperson yesterday. Nice phone call. He was just following up on the "test drive" event they had for the TL a couple of months ago.
He told me that Acura has put some cash on the TL. I asked him what price he'd put on a new TL-Tech-SH AWD. He said he'd be in the $38,500 range.
Of course, if I were to trade that Tahoe, that would probably be where my disappointment would hit.
I was just thinking about the differences between the Genesis and the TL last night.
TL has AWD, and better resale.
Genesis at roughly the same price would have the V8, better warranty, Hyundai Assurance. If I were to go with the V6, I could knock off about $2K on the Genesis.
But, you and I are similar in our automotive "wants". If I drove the V8, that's probably the one I'd want.
Hyundai dealership and I were too far apart on the V6. I'll assume we'll be too far apart on the V8, too. Then again, I didn't do any shopping outside of the local dealer, either.
Anyway, love to hear more of your impressions as you pile up the miles. Especially, how it does in inclement weather (which gives me a bit of pause).
Yeh, I am just thinking, now we have the Jipst method and the "no muss, no fuss, jmonroe spur of the moment, no hesitation, no grinding, method" of buying a new car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I don't think anybody did except his son
We want to see the club marks!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I thought it was interesting that 25% of dealer profit is from new cars, 29% from used cars, and 46% from service and parts. Clever plan, making lemons...you make even more on the repairs!
Dealers have 5 or $10 million in inventory, and the slow down really makes it hard to keep operating.
They checked 5 dealers to get pricing on a Dodge Caravan (prices would be 15 - 20% lower in USA
MSRP $28,665 incl 1370 frt and delivery.
Dealer invoice $27465
Dealer incentive $2000 delivery allowance or consumer cash discount $6000 Don't know why that is one or the other?)
Total dealer cost $21456 (invoice minus cash incentive)
What was interesting was the price from 5 different dealerships;
$18835
$20180
$19385
$19584
$20958
So, it does pay to shop around, you can save about $2000 on a $20,000 car...about 10%!
They also did an interesting sale over the internet. They gave the details including their name and number and sent a list to 3 dealers to see who would come back with the best price. The one that came back with the best price they would go in to see. This doesn't work too well if there is a trade involved. Interesting concept though. I had a friend who sold his house that way when the market was good. 3 agents told him they were the best and go with them. So, he said I'll give it to the 3 of you...the 1st one to bring in a customer gets the commission!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Oh yeh, I forgot, congratulations on the new car......and on all the nice new furniture you will be getting soon.
Oh and the new house!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Kinda sounded like that.
I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that EVERY business has those types of people who will call you names behind your back. Weather it is best buy, sears, walmart..... I'll bet anywhere.... I didn't get a chance to read the original posters comments but from the responses I can tell it was just another persn pounding his chest..... I believe we should have a chest pounding policy here. You should have over a minimum of 500 posts on this forum before you get to get on your soap box and state your opinion....LOL Just kidding .... OK maybe I am not.
Anyway I love these car broker guys and self help books, they crack me up. They all pretty much say the same thing but with a different accent. As for the Edmunds confessions of Salesman... I thought it was pretty good, a little different than where I work but it gave me a feeling of a "old school" dealership. Ok just my 2 cents. Let me get a story out.
GP
OK now that was the funniest thing I have read all day! Good shot Fezo.....
Oh by the way JM congrats.... I knew it was only a matter of time for you to buy. It has been burning at you for quite some time. How much was the Doc Fee?
GP
Yes, sunday sales - and the dealership was packed (really, not kidding).
Ok I say.... I ask him what is important again?... he says" Well I want a good deal.... I know you guys hurting to sell cars and I want to steal a car!" Now, Petey is in a very agitated mood. VEry defensive. He doesn't want to tell me what he is ineterested in so I have no where to start. So I ask him. What else have you looked at. He says I just looked at a Camry....
I say Ok if you looked at a Camry you should look at Altimas.... He than gets angry again and says no I want a Maxima! And I want your best price....blah,blah
Now the Maximas range from $30k - $39k.... And they don't lease out as good as Altmas. The only ones I have available are fully loaded. So in my head I am like how am I going to show a great price but anyway I go out to the lot and show him the loaded up ones. He won't drive and ants to go bcak in and talk price.
So we are back in the showroom and the we have manager on duty who is putting together two other deals... people that are buying.
Right away he hits me with "you better give me your best price! and I am going to shop your price at 10 other dealers"
SO I say Ok , lets just say I am willing to work with you and I give the best price, are you going to do business with me today?
This is where it got fun.... Petey gets really angry that I asked him to commit if I give him the best price. He starts going off about the other dealers he went to. He goes" All you guys want me to sign papers saying I will do businees today, You want to run my credit, I am sick of all this S%^t"
I politley say to him , you know you can just call around and ask for the dealers best price instead of coming down. So because he was very difficult to work with and I had to give him a price. Guess he got.... Yep he got balled :P .... I used a car that I didn't have in stock. A base car.... Oh by the way "balled" means "Low ball" numbers. From the information he was getting at the other dealers I could tell they were low balling him too. I will admit if he does come back I will honor my numbers. If that vehicle is arrives in my inventory. But shoppers like that ussualy don't come back.... oh well. Win some loose some.
GP
The next day comes and we had a big snow storm so he says I'l be back tomorrow again (2 days later)
2 days later comes and he comes in.... All frantic.... I can't buy this vehicle because of the economy... I may loose my job blah, blah, blah...
I say OK I will be happy to return your money. Our store has a policy that when people give us checks we have to wait about a week or two to make sure the check cashes. Than we will give you your money back. Now the guys gets upset that he has to wait for his check to clear. He starts screaming at me, "you never told me you were going to deposit my check. If I knew that I would have never given you that. You poeple do horrible business here! "
Now I am a very patient person.....
He than says angrily and demandingly... I thought you were just going to hold it for me..... he said this a couple of times....after a couple times of this statement, I couldn't help myself.... All I said was " well I am sorry I deposited your check sir, but I thought we had a deal.".....LOL.... I can still see it today. After I said that he gets up screaming .... I am calling the BBB you guys are crooks and I want my money now!!! You better mail it to me and I better have it tomorrow!!!!!
Well in the end he got his money back.... but these are some of the fun things I deal with.
GP
I've never done that but I've sure been tempted.
As long as you'll honor your number I have no problem but, of course, that's on a car he won't want.
I could give a rip less over 200-500 dollars on a deal for a car that I'll drive for 6-8 years. What matters is that the dealership has a clue and a decent attitude.
My most recent dealership had neither, but I'm enjoying the hell out of the car.
It doesn't have to be difficult to be good.
Sad....really. I'm sure not all AIG personnel dipped into the public trough.....only those up top.
Still, that tells us how angry most of us feel about a company (any company) who takes bailout money. And in turn, takes that money to pay themselves millions.
That's wrong on many different levels.
Just like if I saw Chrysler, GM give out millions in bonus money, while begging us for a bailout.
No, I am implying that maybe some cars were made poorly so they would have to be repaired....a way for the car company to make more profits since 46% of profit comes from the service and parts department. Making lemons might be a good strategy....maybe that was the plan with Richard's Caddie.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Congratulations M, for just getting out there and doing it. Like you said, if you did your prechecks and have an idea where you want to be why torture yourself to save 50 bucks.
I think the economy is picking up, we (at thisw Post) have bought about 3 cars over the last few weeks right here. Suburu Outback is a car that should be selling like crazy. Excellent track record for safety and reliability, and pretty economical to run. A lot of baby boomers like them because of this and the all wheel drive. As we get more sensible in our old age Suburu sales should really take off. The new Foresters look pretty good too.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I’d like to tag onto this post and comment to a few posters.
‘magician’ (that’s you ‘houdini1’) : I saw a few of those posts with folks not liking the way the Genny handled, suspension wise. Son #1 is a driving enthusiast and he thought the car performed much better than he thought it would. He ought to know, he drove it for 2 hours back from Ohio and he kept commenting on how well it tracked. He knew his mother had fallen asleep in the back seat so he kept pushing it at times because there was almost no traffic. One time he stepped on it and held it there for a few seconds then he said, “did you feel like there was any loss of control when I did that”. I said, “no, it felt pretty solid to me but I’m not the one behind the wheel”. He said, “it didn’t feel any different sitting over here either. Tell me, how fast do you think I was going”. I said, “around 90 maybe 95”. He said, “add 10, I took my foot off the pedal when this thing hit 105”. :surprise: I said, “that’ll be enough of that. You better hope your mother doesn’t wake up. He said, “unless she can see the speedometer she wouldn’t know it any more than you did”. He commented again about how well it tracked and said, “it’s going to be hard to hold this thing under 70 because you don’t feel any lost of control at higher speeds. So be careful”.
I have no idea what those guys are talking about. I know one thing; they never rode in my Genny.
‘fez’: No one is posting for me, didn’t you recognize my writing style.
‘graph’: The MSRP was $42,100 (tech package, the whole works, including the cargo tray). The guys internet price for the V8 I got was $38,141. Much better than I could get here in the Burgh area. Best internet price here was $39,506. I know that had to be a starting point or why would I do business with them if they were firm on that price. Plus, they didn’t have the color I wanted so that ended that. That is why my son went on the internet prowl and like I said he found one. Near Akron but he found one. He’s good at that stuff. Just like when he was a kid doing something, playing ball, doing his home work, helping friends out with anything, he just wouldn’t stop until he got it done the way he wanted it done. Even though it’s my money he keeps spending it.
‘driver’: That ‘jip method’ was discussed before you got here and it ain’t any better now than it was then. He likes the time invested way. Whereas I like the 30 minute method, where you either go somewhere else or you buy that beauty, take it home and wax it. Real simple, huh?
‘kirstie’: I don’t know why you feel you were blind sided by my purchase. I never mess around too much. As for getting my salesman in here for his “version”, all I can say is he won’t be allowed to stray too far from his dealership until his baby seal wounds heal and he goes in for more training. Anymore deals like the one I got and he’ll be selling pop corn at the theater. However, if he does manage to stop by here, hit em up hard for the premium dues package. He’ll be easy to bump up.
‘gp’: The doc fee in Ohio is $275.50. Before going into the F&I office I thought I’d have some fun with the guy so I asked what the fee was (I already got this price over the phone but I wanted to hear it again just to be sure) and when he told me I said, “ that fee in PA is now $120, up from $55. So, since you’re not going to collect the PA sales tax because of some mumbo jumbo lack of agreement between our states, I don’t think I should have to pay anything for that since you’re not doing much for me in the way of saving me work”. Then I backed off. I could see him looking over at the sales tower. Then I said, “Ok, I’m just kidding”. He seem relieved and I felt I did all the damage anyone should be allowed to do at his desk and was looking forward to signing the papers in the F&I office then going to dinner. Yes, I bought. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've been waiting for a buying opportunity for the Outback. For several years now, Subaru has run Spring promotions. We bought my wife's Forester in 2007 with a $2000 rebate + 1.9% subaru financing through Chase. The 2009 Outback incentive is now $2000 rebate + 2.9% financing. Most manufacturers have you choose between the rebate and the special financing - but Subaru combines it. Its the best incentive on subaru vehicles right now - because the 2010 Outbacks will be a new design and I believe they are trying to clear out the 09's for an early 2010 release. The 2010 will be larger, but the 2009 is proven and good enough for me.
I loved my Chevy truck - but I could actually watch the fuel guage drop on my long commute. It was a great truck, the best I've owned, but I expect fuel prices to rise and a 107 mile commute would be more painful and it would be as unsellable as v-8 pickups were last summer. This was the sensible time to trade in my loyal friend and I was gratified that the dealer recognized its truly flawless (not one scratch) condition and perfect documented maintenance history.
Body is in pretty dang good shape. But what I did not during test drive/inspection, is that all of the glass is very badly scratched and swirled. I can only assume it was from the previous owner that used way to much force to scrape his windows (live in Alaska).
Anyways, it was cloudy when I purchased, hence why I did not notice it. As soon as it got sunny two day's later, it is horrible. I mean so bad that when sunny, and if I make a turn I get blinded by the distortion.
Do I have any recourse here? Or am I looking at a 3k glass replacement bill?
You were going to complain about a LOW doc fee. Did you want them to charge you more? :P
OK, so maybe the dealers sabotage the cars after they arrive at the dealership !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I also found that distasteful, but...back when we got sucker punched in 2001, the D3 boys all ponied up over 10 million each in cash to help in the relief effort. Each one also sent in teams of people to help out plus provided fleets of autos to help in the effort.
Volkswagen contributed about 2 million and Hyundai around 3 hundred thousand. Not much but it was something. These two companies were the only foreign auto makers to contribute anything at all.
Jm, you can drive that new Genny with pride. BMW, Porsche, Toyota, Nissan, Honda and all others, nothing but condolences. Just something to ponder.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Did you talk it over with the dealer? I would suggest starting there, the dealer might not be aware of the problem and if the dealer is honest will help find a solution.
You can ask a glass place if the scratches can be buffed out.
You can see if the car got a safety certificate and if the glass was good enough to pass the test.
You can try small claims court. I think the dealer has to sell the car in reasonable condition....that is glass should be clear.
If the car was bought on an "as is" basis, there won't be much you can do.
Try Edmunds sites as suggested.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have yet to see one of these onthe road so I "googled" and now I know what a Genesis is.
Looks pretty good!
You are allowed to keep his deposit, so you are being more than fair in returning it, even if it does take awhile since you have to make sure his check clears.
Once I put down $2000 for my 1992 Cavalier. Then I had a big situation with the company accountant. I bought some markers for $20 and left the expense form on her desk so I could get repaid.
I went back to my desk and I heard these high heels stomping down the hall into my office. She said she wouldn't compensate me the full 20 bucks because the company had an account at the stationery store and I had better go back and get the 15% discount. So, I said, if the owner of the company, a billionaire (Jimmy Patterson) needed the money so badly I handed over $5. She said I couldn't do that, I had to go back to the store. So, I had to drive back for the 2nd time to get back $3...it cost me more in gas and wear and tear on the car, not to mention my time.
Anyway I had just put a down payment on the Cavalier so I called the dealer and asked if I lost my job could I get out of the deal. They said sure. The whole thing blew over in a few days and I did keep the car. And it was a good little car (V6) but started to fall apart at about 70,000 miles.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250