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Comments
Yeh but if the car manufacturer makes lemons they will make money on the parts!
Anyway, I was only joking about car manufacurers making lemons to make more from repairing the cars. I wasn't being serious. I respectfully hope that ends this discussion.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'm sure you won't do any harm and its certainly worth trying.
P.S. Must be Bon Ami, no other cleanser works like this stuff!
Again, enjoy your new ride. It's a nice one.
Acura dealer wants me to bring in the Tahoe to appraise it. I told him I thought it would be a waste of his time, and of my time. He said "I've got nothing but time".
May stop by for them to take a look-see. Still want around $25K for the Tahoe. If they want to deal on a TL SH AWD-Tech in that $37K range, we may do some business.
Two different cars, though. Genesis is a luxo ride. Although the TL has all of the same features, they drive very differently. Both really nice cars.
There is no required document fee in Ohio. The dealers got the maximum amount they are allowed to charge upped to $250 based on the last bill I saw in the ORC. I'll check into that. You don't have to be charged any doc fee in Ohio. The auto dealers lobby got its maximum raised.
"ORC Section 1317.07 Increases Document Service Fee to $250
"On June 30, 2006, an amendment to section 1317.07 of the Revised Code, which governs retail installment contracts, took effect.
"That section now provides that a seller entering into a retail installment contract can charge a fee of up to two hundred fifty dollars for preparation of documents related to the sale. Previously, the maximum fee that could be charged for document preparation was one hundred dollars.
"As a result of the amendment, motor vehicle dealers selling motor vehicles to customers under retail installment contracts can charge the customer this two hundred fifty dollar document preparation fee in addition to other fees associated with the sale of the vehicle (taxes, registration fees, etc.). It is important to note that the dealership is not required to charge the document preparation fee.
"The Department of Public Safety, Bureau of Motor Vehicles did not play any role in the adoption of the amendment to section 1317.07, and receives no portion of the document preparation fee. Instead, the fee is retained by the motor vehicle dealer."
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Why do they pass out crap like that? This is the day of the internet. Do dealers actually think a person that comes to them via the internet hasn’t looked around? The guy that was closest to me called and left a message last Wednesday saying he’d like to talk to me. I knew he didn’t have the car I wanted because I was at his store the previous Sunday but I decided to call him so he would know I was serious about the color combo I wanted and no further discussions were needed. He proceeds to tell me that he did a search for my color and there wasn’t a car like that for 3000 miles. I didn’t want to give him a geography lesson so I just said thanks but I had already found one so please take me off his list.
Yesterday I got not one but two standard form emails from that guy (that were the same as his original email to me), wanting to know how he could help me. I wanted to respond with (1) listen to what I say when I talk and (2) don’t lie to me again but I was nice and responded to both of his emails saying I had now bought so please take me off his list.
How much do you want to bet I get more blast emails from him? :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Just as well. I ended up with a 99 Celica which satisfied my convertible lust and has a back seat so the seven year olds can come along. They love the thing.
I wish I could get Mrs. traindriver interested in a Gen!
Great Lakes, I'm guessing...? Saw them on Ebay a few times. Would work out nicely for me too -- mom lives near Cleveland.
There is no required document fee in Ohio. The dealers got the maximum amount they are allowed to charge upped to $250 based on the last bill I saw in the ORC. I'll check into that. You don't have to be charged any doc fee in Ohio. The auto dealers lobby got its maximum raised.
I saw on the paper work that $25.50 of the $275.50 were real fees that the state of Ohio charges to do some paper work. I can’t tell you specifically what the names and the break down were because I’m now at work. Do you really think I was going to tell everyone here that I balked at a doc fee after all I went through a few weeks ago here.
The deal I got in Ohio war far better than what I could have gotten in the Burgh and my son would have joined in on the dealers side about this fee. Remember what he said on the drive over to look at the car, “don’t screw this up over a couple hundred dollars” and although his mother wasn’t exactly crazy about me buying a car I didn’t need she agreed with him. Can you believe that, she agreed to give money away without a fight? This very same girl that when I forget to take a food coupon to the grocery store (on the few times I try to help her out with that stuff), goes nuts yet says be nice how you talk to the salesman as he’s pulling Franklin’s out of my wallet. :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
That's the place alright.
Talk to Andy. Tell him you want a deal like he gave jmonroe.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The Hyundai dealership is trying to sell what they've got right here, right now. That means all V6s. Probably doesn't have any V8s coming in on the horizon, either. So, what does he have to lose? Tell me I can't get a V8 and hope I'd deal on a V6. As nice as those are, you really peaked my interest in the V8.
Up till now, I though the V6 offered handling advantages over the V8. Now, I'm not so sure. Believe it or not, it seems maintenance charges on the V8 would be less than the V6, too.
It didn't help that I still had the TL test drive relatively fresh in my mind, either.
I'm in the minority on the styling of the TL. I happen to like it.
Still, although I've kind of talked myself into wanting either the Genesis, or the TL, I need neither one of them. The Tahoe is soldiering on just fine. I don't have "bumper-to-bumper" coverage, but still have the 100K powertrain warranty on it.
I hope you are going to enjoy your nice new furniture.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Here is my stroke story. A week and half ago we found out that our Odyssey is being repurchased and we need to find a replacement. Last weekend we test drove a few vehicles, frustrated a handful of salesmen and decided to buy another Odyssey. On Friday I decided to stop at a Honda store to check out colors, new features, and most importantly to make sure that new vans don’t have the “feature” that mine is being repurchased for.
At first the salesman asks me what options I want. I tell him that I want EX-L DVD and no NAV. The smile comes of his face: “So you are familiar with this van?” I decided that only the gray van will work (sorry Isell). Of course he doesn’t have gray one with options I want in stock. Next, he tries to switch me to different color, or to gray one with NAV, which I decline. He is visibly frustrated now, but offers to test drive one in different color.
During the test drive he is trying to qualify me; do you have a trade-in, why are you buying a van, how many kids do you have . I either give him short answers or deflect his questions. I just didn’t want to give him any unnecessary information. At the end of the test drive, I told him that I’ll buy this van in gray but not today, however he is welcome to throw a number at me.
Inside the SM tells me that he is not giving me a number because he doesn’t know what incentives are going to be when I decide to buy. I told him that he can give the number based on current incentives that expire on April 3rd. He gives me a number that is $400 over invoice plus $400 in junk fees. That’s about $1500 more than other are reporting on Prices Paid Forum. I ask the salesman for his card with his email address, and I will email him an offer when I am ready. The SM says that this is it, he is not discounting the van anymore because this invoice is XX, which was $1K higher than Edmunds and other sites are saying.
I thank the salesman and leave. The salesman was visibly POed, and I am sure he has a few chose words for me. But you know what, I don’t care. I will shop for the vehicle the way I want to do it, and if it’s frustrates some salespeople, that’s their problem. I have to feed my family just like they do.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Also, don't accept as gospel all of the so called "prices paid" numbers you may read about.
You didn't give him enough information to really work with....aside from color and options. Nothing wrong with being rigid on those points. isell knows better than me, but I'd think an Ody with DVD, but no Nav is going to be fairly rare.
You asked for a price. The SM gave you a price. He made it clear that he was "all in" at that price.
Now, you may not like that price. But, he gave you what you asked for, based on the information you provided him/her. You're not buying "right now", but just kicking the tires a little bit.
Truthfully, if you're serious about buying a vehicle, tell them. To me, that's the only way for them to take you seriously. Tell then what you want. Tell them the price you have in mind. It's either....you have a deal (or close to one), or you don't. If they're $1,500 off on the price you're looking for, tell them that, too.
You go in with an attitude, you can't expect anything more than an attitude coming back at 'ya.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
My old Honda dealership was in the automall so it was always packed with people, mostly looky loos. I hated it when I was about to eat and the manager would get me to help out a tire kicker who would go on and waste your time.
So your guy didn't even know what he wanted, yet he wanted the best price. :confuse: Once in a while I get people who ask me what the best deal is on the lot. I ask what they're looking for and all they say is best deal. I ask what price range they're looking at and they tell me it doesn't matter. So I usually respond with a "great, since price range doesn't matter, and you want the best deal, I have a Rolls Royce in the back that we're knocking $50,000 off the sticker price, that's the BEST DEAL." Usually that gets them to give me a price range I can work with.
As for low balling, that's what you have to do. Chances are the customer doesn't even realize it they are getting an absolute best rock bottom price, and will end up buying something completely different than what they're looking for. :sick:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
So we're crooks cause we do a deal that he wanted, and are kind enough to refund the deposit on an agreed deal he cancelled.
He should be fined that $500 for being a rude idiot. I don't know why people can't act in a normal civilized manner.
If this would be real estate he'd be sued for not buying the car. It's a situation happening here in Vancouver's real estate market. 1 - 2 years ago there were huge lineups of people buying presale condos that haven't been built yet. Everyone was plunking down deposits on one, and even multiple units of yet to be built condos. Most were speculating that prices will rise. Now that the condos are finished, they can't get mortgages to cover the current market values of the condos which are 10-25% lower than what the price was at presale time. With most people only having 5% down, they're short about 5-20% of the purchase price, ranging $25-$100k.
So now they can't get financing for these condos, and are not only not getting their deposits back but the developers are actually suing them for the market difference and for not fulfilling their contractual obligations. :surprise:
It's a crappy situation for everyone, but I wish some car buyers would realize how much we bend over backwards for them even when they renege on the deal they made and just happen to "change their mind".
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Allie told us how she had helped a friend named Mark get a job as a salesman there because, "He was an even bigger klutz than me." One day he took a customer's driver's license into the showroom to photocopy before going on a test drive. Turning back to the customer, he walked right through a plate glass door, saying, "Here you go," and handing back the license as if nothing had happened. As he turned away, Allie saw blood spurting from his knee where an artery had been severed. They wrestled him into the break room and a mechanic in the service bay, who had been a medic in Vietnam, staunched the bleeding. They rushed back outside to tend to the customer and discovered he had a long shard of glass protruding from his foot.
To read it all go to:
Confessions of a car salesman
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
People like to brag how little they paid for things, the only problem is many of these claims are ficticious, and impossible in some situations.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The reason the salesperson was probably irritated was because you were carrying yourself around with a chip on your shoulder. Much like you do in these forums whenever you talk to salespeople.
Just because someone chooses to sell cars doesn't make them a bad person. Why play 'hide the weenie' with them?
Are you planning on buying an Odyssey this month? If so, make an offer that is based on the information that you have picked up. If not, then why bother getting pricing? As they mentioned, market and promotions change, nothing is guaranteed.
Check the video. Very good program.
marketplace video on CarFax
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Second, any time I see a unbelievable price, I ask if there was a trade-in involved. I usually discount or completely ignore any price when a trade is involved, because there is no way of truly knowing where the money went.
I also think it is useful to pay more attention to who the dealer is. If you see a few, I got a great price from Berge Ford.... then it's probably a good idea to get a quote from them.
What really drives me bonkers is when people post...I bought a car yesterday for $xx, did I get a good deal??? I am always tempted to say, hey you should look 3 pages back, another poster bought that same car from the same dealer for $3,000 less!!!
Honda is repurchasing my van. Once the numbers are agreed on, I have to drop my van off at a dealer and have some documents signed. Those documents are sent to my lawyer, who will receive a check from Honda. The lawyer will cash the check, take his cut, and send me a check for the balance. Then, I can take that check to a Honda store and buy another van. In the meantime, I’ll have to drive a rental. Therefore, I am serious about buying this van, I just don’t know when; it should be within a month. However, when I get the check, I need to do the purchase quickly, and that is why I am trying to determine exactly what I am going to purchase now.
I told the salesman that I am going to purchase this van, but not today. I didn’t explain all the reasons why because I didn’t feel it was necessary for him to know since it would not have changed anything.
You asked for a price. The SM gave you a price. He made it clear that he was "all in" at that price.
And I respect that. There was no point of telling him that I think that I can get this van cheaper because he was “all in”, and he wasn’t going to entertain any offers. I didn’t give the salesman all the info that he wanted because I didn’t want to prolong the discussion while they were trying to overcome my objections.
The point of my post was that the salesman got frustrated and POed because he wasn’t able to follow his script and close the deal. Every customer has his own process of purchasing and communicating, and it usually doesn’t coincide with salesman’s expectations. Salespeople should understand that and not get frustrated.
I am not upset nor am I blaming anybody. I am just telling a story where I managed to PO a salesman while I was acting in my self interest.
That was me. After my home got hit with a ton of wind and tree damage last Fall, I had asked about DirectBuy while I was rebuilding everything. Plenty of very kind posters warned me off. I actually took their pre-sales "tour". They had some nice stuff. But, found that I could do just as well shopping at other more traditional places. And, I didn't have to pay the exorbitant fees Direct Buy wanted for the privilege.
Yet another "benefit" by cruising the SFTSFL thread.
I am on my second Ody (an 03) and was just curious what your issue was with the vehicle? Our experience with this one has been pretty good other than the trans dropping at 58K.
Not sure what your needs are, but last go around we looked at every mini-van on the market and came down to either the Sienna or the Ody. Those two seemed to offer the best cargo space and value.
We are probably going to replace ours in the fall after the extended warranty ends, so let me know how your search goes.
Also, why do people try to hide a payoff when working a deal? It is an important part of the equation. It has no bearing on what a trade is worth, but for some reason people expect for the dealer to be upfront even when they are not.
I have never heard of such a thing!
I also understand not wanting to go through the whole sales presentation if you're a little ways off in making a decision, but need to move quickly once you do.
Personally, I'd tell any dealership you visit that "Honda is buying back my van. I'm waiting on their check. I want a grey EX-L with DVD but no NAV. Can you get one? If so, when? If not, how close can you get to what I want? My check is going to be for $xx,xxx. I want to buy for the check amount" (knowing that the lawyer has to take his/her cut, and that a new one may or may not cost more than the amount you end up with).
Then, let them go to work for you.
I'm of the mind that the more information you give a dealership, the better they'll come up with what you want, whether it's the model, the color, the options, the price, or the time frame you need it in. Who knows, they may even GIVE you a loaner car to use until everything lines up....your check, the vehicle you want, etc.
I know I've had cars that were totaled out from a wreck. In the time it took for me to get an insurance check, and the time it took me to pick out another car (sometimes a week or more), I've had dealerships let me use their "demo cars", gratis, until the entire transaction, check, new car location was done.
If you tell them the facts of your purchase, and the parameters involved, there are no objections to overcome. They are what they are.
This will be our third Odyssey. Leased ’04 was flawless, ’07 had this one issue. Hopefully, ’09 will be flawless also.
We test drove Sienna before we purchased the second one. Similarly equipped Sienna is more expensive, and suspension is much too soft. Too much body lean while cornering.
You know I tried that with a Toyota dealer last weekend, and it was painful. I took my wife and let her do all the talking. It took 4 hours and we left empty handed.
The salesman took half an hour to prequalify us. We talked about three vehicles and test drove two. The salesman did a 30 minute presentation on each vehicle, and then a 30 minute test drive. That presentation process was mostly unnecessary because we did our research online, but we didn’t want to cut the salesman short.
I would have bought that car in a heart-beat... given you $9,601 to boot. Sounds exactly what I would be looking for in pre-owned, still considering new though.
You could have driven that sucka to Louisville, we could have had lunch at Hooters, transferred the title, then you could have walked or hitched a ride back to the "burgh". Oh well... congrats on your Genesis.
What's wrong with telling them how many kids you have or what your job is? Unless you are shopping for a vehicle that doesn't fit you or you can't afford, why not tell the guy? How else is he going to learn whether you really want/need that car and are serious enough to have means to get it?
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I find it hard to believe that a salesman would take 30 minutes to prequalify someone who had done research and knew what vehicles they were interested in. Qualifying involves vehicle type, new or used, budget you set, trade info and equipment preferences. Then, a 30 minute walk-around (even on a car as unique and different from an engineering standpoint as ours) is about 25 minutes too long. A professional will find out what is important to a customer and stress those "hot buttons". An hour driving - unless you wanted more wheel time - is too long. The whole process with 2 cars and drives should have lasted an hour at most.
$200 a month for 2 years sounds reasonable if you are going to save $1000s every time you buy. But, they talk you into buying stuff and most of it could be bought for less if you shop around. The program is on this coming Friday on the CBC 8:30 Eastern Time. They'll have it at there website after the show...which I can pass on if any one in the USA wants to see it.
Lately they have busted other scams including the amount of sugar in kids cereal. If the cereal companies want to advertise their products on TV they had to get the amount of sugar below 12 grams......most were a few grams above. How did they do it? By removing some sugar? No! What they did was make the serving sizes on the box smaller!!!! They must think we are really stupid!
This week they had people who come to your door selling natural gas or electricity programs. I don't know if this goes on in the US? The people who come to the door do all kinds of things and lie about anything to get a sale. They make $100 for every plan they convert, and some can sell 15 a day. Usually these companies do not save, in fact they usually cost $1000s more than the original company.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
There is a bobst method of selling too you know.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Glad you like the program. It is one of the few where our tax dollars actually do something worthwhile.
I saw that program and it is not to keep foreign food out. The problem is often we don't know where some food originates and that might be important to know. For example you might bring in tomatoes from Mexico, make them into catchup, then label the bottle made in Canada, because it was assembled in Canada. Some people might not want to eat tomatoes made in Mexico for some reason. This would happen with food from China too, and people just might not trust food grown in China, but if it is made into something else in Canada the label just says produced in Canada.
For the last few years it has amazed me that we get strawberries and rasberries etc, all year long, at reasonable prices, because it has become affordable to ship the product from California, Florida, Chile and Mexico and many more places...and I am certain there would be riots in the street if we couldn't do that.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
GG, Once the show airs on Friday you can watch it online at;
Marketplace CBC
CBC is the government funded Canadian Broadcasting Corporation or as we fondly call it, The Canadian Broadcorping Castration!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Just saw a news report on TV that used car prices are going higher, and new car prices are the lowest compared to salaries in over 20 years. By the time you figure in wear and tear etc, on the used car, and with the incentives on a new car and a long warranty.....although the used car seems like less, it will probably cost you more in the long run.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Definitely a tough choice. The positives about buying jmonroe's 2006 Hyundai would be, the year or two left on the bumper to bumper warranty, the 7 years of powertrain warranty, low miles, as as isell likes to say... due to exceedingly/extraordinarily high depreciation on Hyundai's, they are a very good used car value.
Ignore my previous post. Your unclear post made me write stuff that probably does not apply to you.
> I told the salesman that I am going to purchase this van, but not today. I didn’t explain all the reasons why because I didn’t feel it was necessary for him to know since it would not have changed anything.
Yes and No. Sometimes it helps you bond and finally get a good price, and more importantly, better service.
Volkswagen contributed about 2 million and Hyundai around 3 hundred thousand. Not much but it was something. These two companies were the only foreign auto makers to contribute anything at all.
Jm, you can drive that new Genny with pride. BMW, Porsche, Toyota, Nissan, Honda and all others, nothing but condolences. Just something to ponder.
Sorry houdini, but that information is essentially an urban legend...
For example, check out BMW's 9/14/01 Press Release. The BMW Group donated $2.4 million in cash and equipment.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
But new ones are going for about $15,000. The used one will be 11 or $12000 once it gets to the lot. $3000 or $4000 or even $5000 more for a car with 7 years 100000k mile warranty is probably the better buy. Once the word gets out how fabulous the Genesis is Hyundai prices will go up!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
If possible I would like our host to delete that message.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Wait!!! Maybe this can be my next strategy when car shopping...act like an uninterested PITA squawking for best offer in hopes to get "balled" Then, as soon as I get the low ball - say, "ok, lets write it up!" Is this the dawn of the balledst
methedmethod???I did lmao about one thing. All that talk about doc fees and you ended up paying $200+ for it. That's ok. When it is in the price agreed upon, it doesn't really matter. You have me beat. I paid $389 but it was in the deal that I negotiated. Your wife and son really know you well. They prepped you about the $200 before you got there. That was so funny.
In a post last Friday, you asked what happened to Mr. Nice Guy. I try to be nice, want to be nice, and should be nice. I guess that guy stepped on one of my raw nerves. When you start bad mouthing my buddies, I will get my dander up.
Enjoy the new wheels. "Nice" things happen to "nice" people.
Richard
PS: Let's see now. Will Mrs. JM be getting 6 or 8 chairs to go with the new table? Oh, I forgot. She'll have to wait to measure the dining room in the new house. :P