Stories from the Sales Frontlines

sterlingdog · May 2009

"Either one of the options scares people."

The little grey men don't scare me half as much as some men walking around now on this planet. No, I am not making a joke. We can't be the only ones walking around in a solar system.

Richard

snakeweasel · May 2009

When talking to people about these last two options for power, they usually mumble some lame excuse and wander off. Either one of the options scares people.

The problems with the last two are that 1.) there would be so much opposition by certain groups against nuclear power plants that they might never come on line in enough numbers and if they do it would take a long time and have very high costs, and 2.) Little grey (green, or blue or orange with purple stripes or whatever color) are not going to come to us and tell us their secrets. If there is some other solution (which I believe there is) we will have to find it ourselves.

snakeweasel · May 2009

The one thing about fast recharging batteries is that no matter how fast a battery is capable of being charges it can only charge as fast as the delivery system can deliver the electricity to the car. Are you going to grab a high tension electric line and plug it into your car?

snakeweasel · May 2009

The electric motor is not the source of power (the battery is) but it is the agent that propels the vehicle and no other propelling agent is present such as an internal combustion engine.

In the case presented there is another agent an ICE that produced the electricity. Without that ICE there is no electricity and the car doesn't move. So while the ICE doesn't directly propel the car indirectly it does.

sterlingdog · May 2009

What happened to the theory that was proposed years ago that cars could run on processed animal manure? Rumors abounded that the oil companies paid off or ran off these proponents. Perhaps, over the years, the theory was proven to be invalid. Your expert opinion please.

Richard

jmonroe · May 2009

I read an article recently (sorry, I didn't save the link) describing a new kind of battery that recharges on the order of 100 times faster than current batteries.

Since were getting technical here (making corrections and all)dont all batteries provide power via their ability to produce current at a given voltage? Does this new fast charging battery produce ohms?

Not sorry; I could have resisted but didnt.

jmonroe

fezo · May 2009

boom - ridiculous offers than ever lately, on both new and used, accompanied with the "you're bankrupt so gimme a car for nearly free" attitude.

Look, if you'll give me a new car for $10 I'll come pick it up. You'll do it because times are bad for you guys...

fezo · May 2009

Are you going to grab a high tension electric line and plug it into your car?

No, I'll get you to plug it in for me.

jmonroe · May 2009

We can't be the only ones walking around in a solar system.

I agree but were probably a civilization that is still young enough to think that politicians are the answer to our dilemma. When we grow up well correct this situation.

jmonroe

graphicguy · May 2009

imid....I saw the same jump yesterday. 40 cents/gal.....a 20+% jump.....IN LESS THAN A 24 HOUR PERIOD!!!!!!

Again, we saw this last summer.....followed by the precipitous crash.

Read an article a couple of days ago from one of the oil comapines stating the reason for the runup was because oil stockpiling has slowed. Well....DUH! The stockpiles are overflowing. They can't store any more oil.

Price/gal has gone up about 75 cents/gal over the last 5-6 months. That's a 50% runup....for a weak demand (and falling) commodity. SImple economics should tell the oil industry that this will result in disastrous results.

It's only a matter of time before the next fall comes for oil companies. As a taxpayer, I DARE any of them to come to the gov't for a handout when that happens....especially if they didn't put all the crazy amount of money they made last year to good use.

speterson1 · May 2009

I could have resisted but didnt.

LOL! That was good...

I knew a girl in college who thought a superconductor was a man with a baton who won a lot of prestigious awards...

perhaps Leonard Bernstein with a cape?

dino001 · May 2009

I think you are forgetting we are not the only people on this planet. There are a few other people, like - in China. Last month they sold 25% more cars than last year. They restarted their construction (they actually had a real stimulus with about the same amount of money going just to infrastructure as our Pelosi's 2009 Pork and Relief Act. So what do you think are these machines are powered by? The stockpiling has slowed because more and more got shipped to Asia rather than simply put in storage tanks...

Believe it or not, it is a good news. A few American companies may get their orders jumped-up because of that. But the price to pay may be gas going up, perhaps not to $4.20/gal, but soemwhat.

tidester · May 2009

Are you going to grab a high tension electric line and plug it into your car?

Of course, not, silly! High voltage would destroy my battery. :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

jimbres · May 2009

While I don't pretend to be an expert on this stuff, I don't think that the oil companies call the shots on pricing. This is largely OPEC's doing. After prices crashed last fall, OPEC members agreed on production cuts; so far, they've lived up to that agreement.

Saudi Arabia, traditionally OPEC's swing producer & the member with the largest spare capacity, is known to be unhappy with these cuts. If the Saudis show their displeasure with Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, OPEC's leading price hawk, by cranking up production, then prices will plunge.

As long as the OPEC member states stick together, as they're doing now, the Western oil companies will have little or no pricing power. I'm much more put out with Chavez, who either doesn't understand or doesn't care about supply & demand, & with Saudi Arabia, for not standing up with Chavez, than I am with Exxon-Mobil.

tidester · May 2009

Rumors abounded that the oil companies paid off or ran off these proponents.

I don't buy into conspiracy theories.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

Kirstie_H · May 2009

Neither do I, and that one just doesn't stand up to logic. If someone discovered an alternative to oil, the oil companies couldn't come up with enough money to pay them to keep it off the market. The product would be so valuable that the pay-off price would be astronomical.

tidester · May 2009

Does this new fast charging battery produce “ohms”?

I don't understand the question but I can tell you that if cap and trade legislation is passed then alms would be in order for most drivers. Try selling cars when fuel prices exceed car payments.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

boomchek · May 2009

Look, if you'll give me a new car for $10 I'll come pick it up. You'll do it because times are bad for you guys...

For $10 a car I'll buy out my own inventory and resell the cars at $1000/pop.

fezo · May 2009

Oh, you're no fun. I had the trip all planned...

crkeehn · May 2009

Yeah, I'd be in line also. See, three cars sold in just a short period of time. :shades:

wlbrown9 · May 2009

Part of the answer to 'Green Energy' could be geothermal. Very little pollution and no radioactive waste for the next generation to worry about disposing.

http://www.rasertech.com/geothermal/geothermal-multimedia/geothermal-process-ani- mation-video

fezo · May 2009

See that? He's looking so carefully at profit that he's completely ignoring volume.

This makes him just the opposite of the Big 3...

wlbrown9 · May 2009

Plug in Hybrid Electric would be a good first step. One example is a work truck or SUV with a 40 mile electric range, then the generator kicks in and averages around 35 MPG hwy. About a 400 mile range on the 12 gallon tank for longer trips. Need more fuel, just pull up to the gas pump. Normal commute, use mostly electricity from an overnight charge.

http://www.rasertech.com/media/videos/electric-h3-hummer-unveiled

http://www.rasertech.com/media/videos/rasers-extended-range-electric-fleet-truck-

This would be perfect one for me. My round trip commute is just about 40 miles. Weekends, my normal trip to the golf course is about the same. So, if I drive 40 miles most days, the batteries furnish most of the mileage. Say for this example I average 5 miles a day on generator @ 35 MPG, average gas per week would be 1 gallon. 52 gallons a year. Add maybe another 150 gallons for long trips or more driving without being able to charge. Total yearly usage around 200 gallons maximum.
Total miles 15,000 - 18,000.

Now I drive around 17,000 miles a year..old Trooper get roughly 17 mpg, new Outlook gets around 21-22 mpg. So, current usage is roughly 800-1000 gallons.

Potential savings 600 - 800 gallons a year. I know my electricty usage would go up, but if we got enough of these on the road and cut our liquid fuel usage enough, perhaps in a few years we would avoid the need to IMPORT foreign oil. Might not save me money in the short run, but if we can get off foreign oil in the long run I think we will all save money.

I know this would put the pollution monkey on the utilitiy companies back, but it might be easier to manage at the power plant that on the street.

Perhaps 10-20 years from now, fuel cell, extended all electric or even mass transit may be ready to take over a lot of the load.

jmonroe · May 2009

For $10 a car I'll buy out my own inventory and resell the cars at $1000/pop.

Alright, since I'm a laydown I'll fall for that price. :P

jmonroe

driver100 · May 2009

What happened to the theory that was proposed years ago that cars could run on processed animal manure?

Wouldn't that smell bad??? :confuse:

driver100 · May 2009

For $10 a car I'll buy out my own inventory and resell the cars at $1000/pop.

They had a segment on the news that people are just giving up on expensive cars and boats. Lots of new cars set on fire just outside of towns. Lots of luxury boats with all the names and serial numbers removed. Seems, there are people who can't keep up the payments any more.....so you probably could take over payments for $10 for a fairly new car.

snakeweasel · May 2009

I knew a girl in college who thought a superconductor was a man with a baton who won a lot of prestigious awards...

Nope a superconductor is what Superman becomes when he retires from crime fighting and starts working for the railroad.

sterlingdog · May 2009

That wasn't the point of my post. I take it that you and kirstie never heard of the theory. That was the question. To hell with the rumors.

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

Notice that I used the word "processed".

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

We'll have to ask the little men what they did with their politicians. I could think of some neat solutions.

Richard

sterlingdog · May 2009

"As a taxpayer, I DARE any of them to come to the gov't for a handout..."

Amen to that!

Richard

driver100 · May 2009

I was just reading in the car section of todays newspaper to keep your operating costs low you have to consider depreciation. The car that depreciated the least (in Canada, probably U.S. is similar) would be a Mini Cooper. At a cost of $25,800 in 2005 it should be worth $14000 after 4 years or 54.3% of it's original value. Cost to won is actually just $3000 a year or $250 month

Highest on the list was a Lincoln. A 2005 cost $43865 and after 4 years is worth $7800 or 17.8% of it's original value. It costs $9000 a year or $750 a month to own

I don't think very many people think about this when they buy a car. The other thing to consider is that a 4 year old Lincoln makes a great used car.

Average depreciation after 4 years was 37.8% Cars higher than average were mini 16.5% higher than average, Toyota 13.5, Honda 13.2, Acura 6.6, Mazda 3.8, VW 3.1, Mitsubishi 2.4.

Many are below average but over 10% below average in order Cadillac -10.1, Chev -10.2, Saab -12.8, Buick -14.1, Jaguar -14.2, Mercury -18.7, Chrysler -19.8, Lincoln -20.

(lease guide rates are a little different)

houdini1 · May 2009

I don't think very many people think about this when they buy a car.

That is one of the first things that I look at as it is your biggest expense of owning a car.

isellhondas · May 2009

Yes, unless you drive your cars into the ground or keep them 15 years. Then it doesn't mattter very much.

deltheking · May 2009

Thats why a pre-owned 2 or 3 year old model with low miles from a brand that depreciates really fast--well that is a great deal!!!
Any 2-3 yr old used car-can net u lots of savings as the maximum depreciation has already occured !!
And u can still drive them into the ground !

jipster · May 2009

Yes, unless you drive your cars into the ground or keep them 15 years. Then it doesn't matter very much

You guys have the script all messed up. Isell is suppose to say depreciation is the biggest expense in owning a car. That's why he loves selling Honda's. I'm suppose to say, "Yes, unless you drive your cars into the ground or keep them 15 years. Then it doesn't matter very much.". And Houdini is make some lighthearted joke about how we never agree on anything. Now, let's get it right next time guys! :P

houdini1 · May 2009

I am addicted to 2 year old Lexus LS's. Bought a 2006 LS 430 CPO last year with 29,000 miles for $32,000. It's been great. What can I say. I like nice cars but I am cheap !!

jipster · May 2009

Thats why a pre-owned 2 or 3 year old model with low miles from a brand that depreciates really fast--well that is a great deal!!!

I think you get the best overall value (i.e price and reliability) with a used car about 4 or 5 years old. That's another big chunk of depreciation taken out, with very little, if anything, lost in reliability or extra maintenance costs. As an example, my 5 year old Buick Regal: leather, power seats, auto climate control, 54,000 miles, excellent condition. The sticker was around $25,000 , I paid around $6,600. :surprise:

jmonroe · May 2009

What can I say. I like nice cars but I am cheap !!

That's what I'm supposed to say. :confuse:

jmonroe

snakeweasel · May 2009

I don't think very many people think about this when they buy a car.

Seeing that I usually keep a car until it falls apart thats one of the last things I think about.

tidester · May 2009

I take it that you and kirstie never heard of the theory.

Of course we've heard of it. But half of your message in the same paragraph was about the role of the oil companies in suppressing technology so the thrust of your message was related to conspiracy theory. I expect you, in particular, to communicate more clearly than that. :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

sterlingdog · May 2009

When a person writes a paragraph, they usually have the "thrust" of the message in the first half. Secondary details complete the paragraph. I should have had you in my creative writing class.

Be careful using the word "thrust". If you weren't such a nice guy, I could have a real come back using that word. :P :shades: I know. Being a senior citizen gives me such license these days.

Richard

tidester · May 2009

Being a senior citizen gives me such license these days.

Hmm. Pleading a geriatric defense sounds a little desperate but we'll give you a pass on this one.

However, back to your point, the waste material that you described does contain a fair amount of usable energy. Toward the end of WWII, the German people had become seriously short of resources and many resorted to burning cow droppings and whatnot for heating and cooking. I don't know how economically feasible it would be to process the material for use in cars. Kirstie's correct analysis likely tells the answer.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

bolivar · May 2009

Most energy companies have already dabbled in geothermal.

Do you have any idea what kind of nasty contamination is in the water that comes up out of the ground? You can't replace valves and piping fast enough to keep ahead of the corrosion from acidic and particle contamination.

Nuclear. It's our only viable option.

houdini1 · May 2009

Excellent. A man after my own heart !! And a darn fine car.

houdini1 · May 2009

Agree on the "Nukler".

houdini1 · May 2009

I don't consider myself a conspiracy nut but I do believe that when some person or business who has enjoyed tremendous success sees a new development that could threaten that success, they will tend to behave in their own self interest.

stickguy · May 2009

alternative fuel options are a big deal in research these days (since my son is about to start college as a chemical engineering major, we spent quite a bit of time recently hearing about, well, chemE!)

THere was also a good article in (IIRC) C&D this month (Bedard probably) about the real cost of fuel production (and how much the govt. subsidizes it). Interesting read.

Bio fules weren't too bad, and have the potential to come way down (note this isn't ethonal, which is still pretty much a loser plan).

If they various plans to convert pond scum, garbage and cellulose pan out, we should have plenty of raw material!

Although if I understand what you get, it probably makes the most sense to convert over to deisel engines to effective use the stuff (not sure how much harder it is to convert all the way to gasoline).

Hey, putting around in an old VW rabbit deisel running on old cardboard is still better than walking, or paying $8/gallon for gas.

ANd, veering back toward the topic, think of all the new cars tha wil lbe sold!

jmonroe · May 2009

Nuclear. It's our only viable option.

Since I have a dog in this fight nobody would listen to what I have to say about this. So Im out but really Im in.

jmonroe

xrunner2 · May 2009

Nevertheless, hydrogen can be stored safely.

What about the Hindenburg?

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