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The biggest mistake the Navy made was to quit building Nuclear surface ships other than CVAs. The nation should have continued building nuclear power plants.
These people should buy cars that don't depreciate sharply.
A three year old domestic or Korean car can be a lot of car for the money because they drop in value like a rock.
That's assuming a person picks one of the reliable ones.
Actually I fall into that category for the most part but that's with buying used cars mostly. The 00 Accord I bought new. In December we'll have had it 10 years which is a record for us. I'm not sure of the mileage (the light for the odometer burned out and the only time I'm driving the thing is at night) but my wife assures me it is past the 167K mark which was previously the highest mileage we've had on a car and on this one those are all our miles. The two previous cars to make it to that mark were bought used (80 Accord; 87 Maxima wagon).
The other cars in the stable were bought used. Two were very used (99 Celica had 119K when i bought it; 99 Camry had 91K). One less so (04 Ody with 22K).
Getting back to topic this shows that I might be back in the car buying market some time in the next year...
The other dealership (Neil Huffman Mazda/Imports) has more expensive service items, a $37 oil change, $200 trans fluid flush, but don't give you a heads up on the services you need.
I took my MPV into the Neil Huffman dealership for a $37 oil change and a second opinion on the brakes, (noted above). I wait about 40 minutes... they come back and say the brakes are fine..."look good", "Your van will be ready in a minute." So, I'm looking at the full circle inspection sheet, it says the battery is "bad" and the trans. fluid needs changing. What?? Why didn't my service advisor say anything? I ask the service manager what was wrong with the battery, he goes and asks the tech, comes back and says it's only pulling about 255 amps. Okay... well??? The dude doesn't even try to sell me a battery! Doesn't he care about leaving me stranded out with the hungry dingos and whatnot? I wasn't going to buy one of their $200 batteries anyhow, but still, it would have been a 5 minute install with about a $120 profit for the dealership if they had. He didn't try to sell me a trans fluid flush either, didn't even mention it. Maybe they were really busy and didn't want the bother?
Anyhow, went to Autozone and they put in a 8 year (3 year free replacement) Duralast Gold Battery for $89. The OEM Mazda battery almost made it to 5 years, which is pretty good.
The 2nd dealership is the better dealership. They know their cars and their customers. The reason they didn't offer to service the battery and fluid, was because they already knew you wouldn't purchase it from them.
They are that good!
That's assuming a person picks one of the reliable ones.
I don’t think you’d have a problem finding a reliable Korean car if you bought one made after 2002 so you must be talking about “domestics”, right?
As for depreciation, both the Korean and domestics would also be good as boat anchors; with the big difference being that the Korean’s will do that longer.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I wonder if that is an agreement they quietly came to. No use both dealerships doing exactly the same. So, one takes the cheap prices up front approach to lure you in, then charges high amounts for repairs you don't need. The second one charges the real prices upfront, so doesn't really try to add extra costs.
I think moo is right though. Somehow they know you, and are getting back at you for taking the car somewhere else when they point out a problem. Probably all those Autozone parts in your engine compartment!!!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I have to agree.... They showed you the qork order with what is recomended..... Are you upset you didn't get asked to the prom by the prom Queen? :P After you develop a rapport with people sometimes you just want to save face. If they did offer it would you have excepted? No and you already said that. Just keep going from time to time to find out what you need.
GOP
kirstie....I agree that once it's clear that there's a substantial move towards these plug-ins, someone....some company, will see the potential and make a move to capitalize on it. IMHO, it won't be the oil companies, though. They can't see the forrest for the trees. The Volt kind of changes that a bit. You don't need to plug it in. Its gas engine recharges the electric motor. And, if what GM is saying is correct, in normal commutes, the car could go for days before the gas engine even fires up to do a recharge.
Honda has its hydrogen car on the roads in CA. BMW has theirs on the roads in Europe. It's either the Netherlands or Sweden (I think) that has developed an entire stretch of roads with hydrogen refueling stations. Here in the U.S.? Good luck finding one. I don't see a big rush by oil companies to offer an outlet for hydrogen fuel. They certainly aren't on board to foster the technology. Why? They're stuck on their cash cow....gasoline. That's a very short sighted view of things. While they're putzing around with trying to manipulate the gas prices, they'd do themselves (and us) a favor by fostering these other alternatives and let gas prices rise and fall with the market. They'll give up short term profits for long term viability. Not to mention doing their part for the environment.
I think (I hope) that the public is much more aware and adjusting their driving habits, the kind of vehicles they're buying, based on the desire for less money out of their pockets for a fillup. That fact seems to have missed the oil industry.
(off my soap box)
Anyhow, went to Autozone and they put in a 8 year (3 year free replacement) Duralast Gold Battery for $89. The OEM Mazda battery almost made it to 5 years, which is pretty good.
Just curious but did Autozone confirm what the dealer found as to what the battery was capable of having pulled as a load? My experience with GM Delco batteries and GM belts and hoses of years ago is that they were better than the after market brands but I don’t think that’s the case today.
My last GM cars were a 95’ Bonneville and a 95’ Monte Carlo. The batteries in both of those cars lasted over 8 years until they gave the telltale sound of slow cranking. They were replaced with the best that Advance Auto had to offer at the time. I replaced the belts and hoses at about the same time although they were still holding their own at that age. I just didn’t want to take a chance any longer with them. Call me cheap or call me chicken but they went at that age. (Richard, keep your comments to yourself). :mad:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Well, I did come in to buy their overpriced oil change. And I have gotten oil changes there before...about a couple years ago. Last time I went for an oil change they over filled the coolant resevior... by a lot. This time they look like they underfilled it, and they put in the wrong oil 10w-30 instead of 5w-20. So, they still suck,
When I first came in today the service manager looked at me and asked if I was the one "upset" the last time I came in. What the? I said I asked for goodwill on a coil replacement about 10 months ago. I sure wasn't upset though. He looked at my address and said that is how he remembered. I'm guessing he's got me marked on his computer as a "troublemaker"... much like Edmunds does most of you. A blinking red light goes off every time you submit a post. :P
I had complained several years ago, when being given a phone survey. The car was still under warranty. That was the occasion they under filled my coolant, and something else stupid that I can't remember.
I was hoping to make this my go to dealership, and go ahead and pay more for the oil changes etc. Looks like I may have better luck going to Jiffy Boob. :sick:
Well, yes and no... it depends. I got a battery about $90 less than the dealership would have charged. So, no sense having them put in a battery. They're trans. fluid flush is about $70 more than the Oxmoor Mazda dealership. And their oil changes are just as inept as the other dealerships, but they charge a lot more.
They do offer better prices on parts and labor though. So, if I had a coil or PCV hose go bad I would go to them.
Yes, I had Autozone test the battery. The read out on their machine didn't indicate amps... just "bad battery". I thought they had to run the engine to fully test a battery, which they didn't do. :confuse:
I've noticed the van cranking slower this past winter, and I had been meaning to replace it soon. But, you know how us cheapskates are.
I'm glad I went ahead and replaced it, so I don't have to worry about the wife and kids being stranded somewhere. I did notice a belt squeaking a bit when checking the oil level, so I guess I'll need that checked out.
I am sure the buggy and whip manufacturers did their very best to suppress the technology being developed by the Duryea brothers and Henry Ford.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
You do NOT have to run the engine to check the battery. So don’t think they didn’t do a proper test. In fact, isolating the battery from the car is the best way to test it. The isolated battery test is intended to put a load on the battery that is greater than what the car will do. Thereby indicating what reserve power is available by the battery over and above the load that the car puts on the battery. This is not a new way of testing a battery, it’s been done like this since I can remember. However, with the testers that are available today, testing is more foolproof than years ago.
Just thought you’d like to know you weren’t jiped.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
It is highly questionable whether hydrogen caused the disaster (see e.g., Hindenberg Disaster).
But even so, modern technology stores hydrogen as a metal hydride so it's not in gaseous form. I've seen videos of high powered armor penetrating rounds being fired through containers filled with this solid state material - and nothing happens! There's an entry hole and an exit hole and that's it. And that was a couple of decades ago.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Thanks. I always thought putting the battery "under load" meant cranking up the engine rpm's.
.
It should be
But it always seems like the back bumper is the most prone to getting bumped. :shades:
No they should buy cars they like and want.
I never heard anyone say "I hate the car and it doesn't really fit me, but look at that resale".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You'll really like it there!
Someone flag you as a "troublemaker"?
Nah, couldn't have happened!
I agree. Just don't gripe when you go to trade it in and you find out it has little value!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I've had less problems overall with Jiffy Boob and Valvoline. Jiffy Boob didn't vacuum my interior and clean my windows like they were suppose to. Valvoline didn't clean out all the dead leaves and helicopters when they put in a new cabin filter, and I had to go back. But, they did put the correct oil in and topped off my fluids properly.
The guy who did my oil change today acted like he didn't want to be bothered by anybody, had that mad crazy "don't mess with me" look. He had his own service bay, doing nothing but oil changes all day.
Someone flag you as a "troublemaker"?
Nah, couldn't have happened!
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Thanks for your support.
I'm going go back in tomorrow and give that service manager a good piece of my mind for black balling me. Nobody jips the jip! :mad:
09 Honda Accord LX discounted price to the floor $19,500
09 Hyundai Sonata Base GLS -- // -- $16,000
Difference of $4500
Black book trade-in value:
04 Accord LX -- $8200
04 Sonata Base -- $3800
Difference of $4400
Any questions?
Oh, CU Sonata and Accord reliability rating is identical, and Sonata has better warranty.
Usually it is not an either or situation. You find several cars that you would be happy to own, THEN you can look at depreciation and add it into the final equation for which car to buy.
09 Honda Accord LX discounted price to the floor $19,500
09 Hyundai Sonata Base GLS -- // -- $16,000
Difference of $4500
Uhm, no. Difference of $3500
Seems to me like you come out ahead by $900 on the Honda in the end, using your numbers with a final difference of $4400
Further, let's look at percent of value retained
Initial Investment . Final Value . Lost Value . Pct of Value retained
Honda 19500... ... 8200 ............ 11300................ . 42%
Hyundal 16000... . 3800 ............ 12200................ . 24%
And let's look at it this way... Say you have a down payment of $2000
For the Honda you finance - 17500 for 60 months at 6% = $338.32 per month
For the Hyundai you finance -14000 for 60 months at 6% = $270.66 per month
That's $67.66 per month more for 60 months for the Honda.
And you say, you'll bank the extra amount .....Well.....
If you saved that money each month for 60 months, you'd have $4,272.89
(if you deposit it in a bank@ 2%) + your $3800 to trade for a new car = $8,072.89
However your Honda is worth $8200
$8200 - $8,072.89 = $ 127.11
Honda wins.
So, even if you were to religiously save the difference in a bank each month, you'll still have more money to put towards your next car purchase by buying the Honda.
FWIW
I was going to point that out but you did it much better lokki.
I like those other figures with interest and everything too - I am impressed!
As was pointed out, buy the car you want, but if a few cars are close consider depreciation. Would you buy a Lincoln knowing it will depreciate $9,000 a year and be worth much less than a 4 year old Honda? That's a worst investment than the stock exchange these days?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
50 worst cars of all time
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Very nicely done!!!!! I am going to have to use that close sometime! :shades:
GP
Argument of "but you will drive a Honda" ony works if you like Hondas.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The OP didn't list any rental fees......
GP
:shades:
Personally, when I shop I have several cars in mind that I think I might like. I do pay attention to resale value, but also to how long I think I'll own the car and which one I like best. I doubt very many people have just one criterion when shopping.
Oh, and when buying a used car, I think of depreciation more than when I buy new - mainly, as in what already heavily-depreciated vehicle will be the best value and will I enjoy.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
GP, of all people you should know what it’s like.
_______________________________________
2009 CR-V EX-L
MSRP-$27,245
Invoice-$25,342
Your Price-$24,842
Appearance Package-$895 Retail
Internet Special-$395
*This vehicle comes with door edge guards, wheel locks and pin-striping, splash guards.
Honda Freight-$670
Dealer Processing-$100
Sub-Total-$26,007
VA 3% Tax-$780
VA Tags/Ttile-$170
Total OTD-$26,957
There are Honda Dealers that play games. I am not one of them! This is an upfront minimum offer. I am not sending you a low ball quote with the intention of making up profit by over charging you for options that you may not want to pay for. Watch for qualifiers in the price quote such as " Price would be" or " Price plus options".
No other Dealer can purchase a Honda for less than Jim Coleman can. Bring any offer you have in writing, WE WILL NOT LOSE YOUR BUSINESS OVER PRICE!!!
___________________________________________________________
There are Honda Dealers that play games. I am not one of them!
What about that appearance package? Also, invoice price includes destination, “Your price” doesn’t.
I am not sending you a low ball quote with the intention of making up profit by over charging you for options that you may not want to pay for.
What about that appearance package?
This is an upfront minimum offer
Bring any offer you have in writing, WE WILL NOT LOSE YOUR BUSINESS OVER PRICE!!!
Self explanatory.
No other Dealer can purchase a Honda for less than XXXXXXX can.
That’s a true statement. Every dealer pays same price for Hondas, even though that this guy is implying that he is paying less.
That’s a true statement. Every dealer pays same price for Hondas, even though that this guy is implying that he is paying less.
I used to work in politics (for several political parties over the years). I remember a few years ago we were trying to come up with an effective slogan for a Republican candidate in a primary campaign, in an area where the person who the voters were convinced that a candidate was the "most Republican" was bound to win.
Our slogan: No other candidate is endorsed by Ronald Reagan.
OK, it was a joke and we never used it... but it was entirely true :shades:
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
An even bigger problem lies with the fact that Korean makes are always "back of book". Nobody pays book for these and anyone here in the business will confirm that. This could change in the future but for the time being this is the way it is.
As far as the warranty? The best warranty is the one you never have to use.
I'll be the first to agree that Hyundai has come a LONG way but when I start seeing ones with 200,000 plus miles still running like a Honda, I'll remain a bit skeptical.
LOL.... If there is one thing I hate... it is drunk posting, emailing, facebooking, anything that is electronically tracked and can be forwarded.... At least srunk dialing you could always deny....
Hope everyone has a great mothers day....
GP
We had a 2000 Accord, and it was flawless. 2004 Odyssey was also perfect. 2004 Acura TL has many issues, more issues than two Fords and GM I owned, but not as severe. Now, the 07 Odyssey was just lemoned for air in the master cylinder. The Honda TSB that describes this problem covers only 07 and 08 model years, so we tried to purchase an 09 Odyssey. The one we were about to purchase had same issue with its breaks. We test drove another one and the brakes were fine. We still purchased a CR-V, but from now on we won’t purchase a Honda automatically, we will look at other options.
While deciding what to replace the Odyssey with, I was driving a rental Sonata GLS. It is big, comfortable and has excellent gas mileage. My TL will be replaced with a Sonata. If I keep it to 100K+, it will be the best value on four wheels.
I disagree with you about Honda's quality not being as good as it used to be. I can't speak for Acura since I'm not involved with them.
Any car can and will have problems. I have never once got into a new Odyssey and found a problem with it's breaks and I'm in dozens of them every year. I don't doubt you had a problem, Stuff happens to ANY car and Hondas certainly aren't immune. You just cant realte your problems as the norm and jump to the conclusion things have gone downhill
And, todays cars are much more complicated then they used to be. The cars of yesterday didn't have computers, ABS, airbags VCM and all of the complex options people just have to have these days.
I'll say it again. Although I'm no fan of Korean cars, I'll be the first to say that they have, indeed come a long way. I'll be more of a believer in long term reliabilty when I see long term results.
I agree with that statement. When my father was a salesman (not cars) I heard that line more times than I’ve heard it from you. However, when like you say, a problem arises because nobody is perfect, it’s comforting to know that one manufacture has enough confidence in their product to put their warranty where their mouth is. Therefore, the next best warranty is the longer warranty without the additional cost. Especially when the reliability of both products is a toss-up.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Richard
Which is why I have my Mazdaspeed 3 serviced at Kings Mazda in Cincinnati. First-rate service and free oil changes for as long as I own the car. Yes, it's a bit of a drive, but I hate to deal with inept idiots- I have to do that enough in my real job... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Even my 3 year old Tahoe has been relatively trouble free (save for a couple of manufacturer recalls and an electrical glitch early in its life). It's also good to see the General is using much better materials in their vehicles, too.
For you gear heads out there, my local Chevy dealer, in an attempt to put me in a new car, let me drive his '10 V6 Camaro on Friday. While I lean towards the Mustang side of the stable when it comes to pony cars, the base Camaro has it all over a base Mustang. Pretty quick. Motor is refined (it should given the fact they lifted it from the Cadillac CTS). I know they were going after the "nostalgia" thing, but I really wasn't wowed by the interior. It just looked "funky" to me.
Still, nicely put together and a very nice effort by Chevy. I think they'll sell a bunch of them. Would love to get behind the wheel of the SS, with the 'vette engine. While my dealer didn't say how many they'd sold, he said all the SSs he received were all delivered to "pre-sold" customers who had waited as much as a year to get it. He still had a 4 month pre-sold backlog of SSs.