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General Motors discussions

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Obama forces Wagoner out as GM chairman; end of a 31-year career. Detroit News

    So, who would you recommend that the GM board appoint to replace Wagoner as chairman of the company?

    Chief operating officer Fritz Henderson would appear to be the most likely candidate in the early odds.

    Kirk Kerkorian may be available. :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >The only 2009 Yukon on the lot had a sticker

    Did you ask what rebates were on that car? Did you ask what their first offer might be for a selling price. That's the problem with comparing sticker prices. At the local Acura and MErcedes deal it would be how much extra they're going to add on after the price is settled.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Ouster of Wagoner by Obama is only symbolic if replacement is a protege of Wagoner. Supposedly, Fritz was in line to be the CEO after Wagoner might of left of his own accord. Fritz is a "finance" guy and one wonders what he was doing in last 10 years at GM with many of these years sustaining huge losses. How competent, or incompetent, was Fritz?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    At least now we can say GM is on the Fritz. :)

    GM's Fritz Henderson: The New Man On The Hot Seat (AutoObserver)

    "Indeed, in his first meeting with reporters after becoming GM's CEO, Henderson admitted Monday there's a greater risk that the company will have to reorganize through bankruptcy, because of greater demands from the Obama administration to get debt off its balance sheet. But he reiterated what GM executives have said for months -- restructuring outside of the court but with Washington's support is preferrable.

    Second, of course, Henderson suffers immediately and irreversibly from his association with the Wagoner regime. That's why many observers give him no better than a 50-50 chance of hanging on to his new job for the long term.

    It's very possible that the Obama administration simply had to have Wagoner's scalp immediately - because of GM's failure to come up with a viable survival plan by tomorrow's deadline - but that they can wait a while to take Henderson's. Perhaps they just want Henderson to plunge GM into bankruptcy court and preside over the triage then take his walking papers and catch up with Wagoner.

    Still, if Obama actually gives GM the opportunity to pull itself up by its boostraps with government aid, many industry watchers believe that Henderson would be a good leader toward renaissance. "He's a GM lifer and incredibly capable," said Joseph Phillippi, president of AutoTrends Consulting, in Short Hills, N.J., said about Henderson a while ago."
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Pay myself a hefty retirement bonus, grant myself a huge severance package, and then defect to China.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I would rather see a new CEO from completely outside the GM corporate culture. Maybe from a car company that knows how to make money----a radical idea I know.... :D
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >a car company that knows how to make money--

    Whom would you suggest?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    er....um.....ah.......well, probably someone from one of GMs overseas operations? Just as long as they haven't spent too many years on the 14th floor.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    I was serious in asking if there were any candidates. I wonder if someone from within GM, even foreign divisions, could be cold enough to what it will take.

    Walking in as a cleanup CEO has been done in different companies. Carl Icahn comes to mind. I can't think of any others; it's too late for clear thinking.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What about Jack Welch late of GE? He seems bloodthirsty enough to do any needed dirty work.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I would rather see a new CEO from completely outside the GM corporate culture. Maybe from a car company that knows how to make money----a radical idea I know....

    They should get somebody who's done a turnaround and cleanup. Like Mulalley. I had suggested months back that Steve Jobs would be great, but that was before his recent LOA at Apple. I doubt Steve would want that job even if he was healthy, but perhaps he'd welcome the challenge.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It would have to be a massive overhaul of personnel, like FDR and his team replacing Calvin Coolidge and his team. :P

    I just don't see this as a 'one man thing' . I think one lone stranger will get pecked to death in there.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    When Ford was in trouble just after World War II, Henry Ford II assembled a team to save the company later known as the "Whiz Kids." GM and Chrysler is going to need such a team to turn them around. Are the Super Friends available? I know the Legion of Doom is busy running Toyota and Honda.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I wish Vince Lombardi were alive. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    If the 1997 Philadelphia Flyers (Legion of Doom) are running Toyota and Honda, you should be happy. They reached enormous success, and then choked in one of the most humiliating failures in the history of the game :P
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Roger Penske, a car guy, former racer, hugely succesful race car builder, runs Penske business very well. He could be the one to turn GM around, but that would take away from all the fun he has in racing ventures. Unfortunately, he probably would not accept GM CEO job for any amount of money.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Now if THAT is true I should try one out. A Buick that had the feel of an Accord would be a nice vehicle.

    I haven't gotten to try out any of the new Buicks largely because I'm not in the market now.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No person in his right mind would except it unless he could clean house top to bottom. Even Obama, certainly not a "car guy" can see THAT far.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    While the final transaction price is most important, the MSRP is relevant as well. Raising list prices when sales are down is just plain stupid. Higher prices scare potential buyers away and they never even bother asking what the final price may be. GM can't afford to scare anybody away right now--they are fighting for their very survival.

    As to Acura and Mercedes, they are discounting their vehicles as well. I think I posted earlier that I paid more than $5K less for my MB C350 than a comparably equipped Cadillac CTS--that's not a good situation for GM. My 2005 Acura MDX cost me about $5K less than a comparable Tahoe and $7K less than a Cadi SRX. That's not good either. While these vehicles aren't directly comparable, people shopping in their respective classes might cross-shop these cars--I did.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually, raising list prices allows them to give a larger "Cash back" discount, heh. Cynical, underhanded...and probably all too true.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    ".....like FDR and his team replacing Calvin Coolidge....."

    Ummmm.......Didn't FDR replace Hoover?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, he sure did. Don't rely on me for American history lessons. I just do cars. :P

    Harding, Coolidge, Hoover

    FDR was governor of NY when Hoover was President. He ran for VP with Cox against Harding and lost. Coolidge was the VP.

    So really he ran against Harding and Coolidge and Hoover at one time or another.
  • riposteriposte Member Posts: 160
    It's been awhile. Hope everyone's been well.

    We are now exactly where I feared we would be in 2006, which was the reason for this thread.

    Anyone new ideas?

    Lately, I've been thinking that the only value in Chrysler is in OEM parts, JEEP, and the names of the divisions and models. Time for some Korean or Chinese company to swoop in and buy it up.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Raise some bucks, cut some expenses.

    GM plans to auction 100 specialty cars (LA Times)

    "The vehicles will be sold in Palm Beach, Fla., starting Thursday. The listings include a 1920 Chevrolet Model T truck; a 1999 Camaro Z/28 used in the movie "Runaway Bride"; and a 1978 Corvette Indy 500 pace car, one of only four made -- and one of two that GM owns. (It's keeping the first one that rolled off the production line.)"
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'd like to think that the Caravan still has value, but maybe I'm just being sentimental (although mine was a Voyager).

    Here's the link to your first post:

    riposte, "Breakup Value of GM and Ford" #1, 15 Feb 2006 10:27 am

    It looks like trying to change directions was about impossible for the big three since you posted that just over 3 years ago. Ford seems to be veering off on a new course.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well that's a whole lotta nothin'. Surely GM has a more interesting attic than that!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You were hoping for the 1973 Chevrolet Vega GT - Millionth Vega Edition? :)

    image
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Millionth Vega? Please. I'd hoped we were smarter than that......
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    You know, the Vega really was a pretty car for a subcompact. It sort of looks like a mini Camaro. It's certainly more attractive than the Pinto, Gremlin, or the horde of anonymous imports of the time. Too bad it was such a POS. :sick:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Well, yeah, that's where it fell down....

    My brother had a 72 Vega he bought new. Was the only person I knew to take a Vega over 100K but his FIL was a service manager at a Chevy dealer so when head gaskets popped and such he got teh work done free.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    My Grandmom traded in a perfectly good black 1964 Chevrolet Biscayne four-dour sedan for a mustard yellow 1973 Vega. Even to my eight year-old eyes, I could tell the car was slapped together from shabby materials. Even the "new car smell" was peculiar. The headliner was this perforated cardboard crap that was warped in a corner - not the nicely finished fabric headliner in the '64 Biscayne. Even the Vega's domelight looked like cheap crap and was mounted cockeyed. Many is the time I remember Grandmom going to the Chevy dealer with my brother and I in the backseat and she's outside explaining something to the mechanic with the car's hood popped. Funny, Grandpop's 1974 Impala was bulletproof.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh be still my beating heart :sick:

    Actually the Vega is a great example of how "goal setting" can be a dangerous practice, if the goal becomes more important than achieving something that actually makes sense.

    Were I in charge of GM I'd be certain that no "goal" is so rigid that it can't be constantly re-examined. Just saying "I want a car that gets 40 mpg and seats 4 people and it must sell under $20,000" might be a bad idea. Maybe it's too slow or too small for market conditions at the time, or has to be built so cheaply to achieve that goal that it exudes cheapness.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Yes. I'm sure the Aztek achieved its stated goal but who could have not seen teh disaster it would become?
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    It seems that the Aztek has become the poster child for bad design, even more than the Edsel and Pacer. I'm wondering whether, in a weird sort of way, this will make the Aztek a collectible in the future? I'll stick my neck out and suggest that the most recent ones, without the cladding, looked, well, if not good, then significantly less offensive than the original ones. Maybe I should buy a nice bright yellow or orange Aztek, with the tent accessory, while they can be purchased for a song, and are still available, and store it for ten years. By then virtually all of them will have been scrapped. On second thought...
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Could not have said it better myself. I agree with every word.

    I kind of felt guilty using the Aztek as the example - kind of like shooting fish in a barrel but you can't ignore the darn thing. It's definitely something taht passed all the little tests for what they wanted in a vehicle and somehow nobody stepped back and "Dang, that thing is ugly!"

    Like all Pontiacs of that time frame once you removed all the cladding and toned it down it was at least down to nearly acceptable.

    Here's where we need Andre - I think they sold a fair number more of those than Ford did Edsels. Maybe you could put that in the collection anyway. Just make sure it's out of public view. You could get one of those tickets for uglyfying the neighborhood.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Yeah, it would be kind of a counter culture thing.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    Actually the Aztek has been ridiculed only because it's GM.

    Let's look at the last two attempts by Camry with the pig nose and the jukebox rear ends on both cars. Now there's a car that fails in art class.

    Or look at the bathtub Accords in 03.

    The Aztek was designed to be different and works. Some of the color combinations and cladding may it look like a FJ by toyota.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There is not much satisfaction in being part of the "Freak Show" Owner's Club of America. Yes, you bring these freaks to shows and call them "collectible" (as are recycled bottles) but people might be laughing at you, not with you. :P

    Actually, if I put sunglasses on and squint, I could live with an Aztek for its practical utility, but when it's all used up, the recycler is the most merciful act for the car and for humanity at large IMO.

    One Pacer and one Edsel would have been plenty for the historical record.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    You may be right, imidazol97, but reputations are hard to change, and it takes time. I think it's more probable that people will agree with you in, say, 20 years than today.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, but there are far uglier vehicles than the Aztek. The Element is so ugly it makes the Aztek look sexy, but I guess it gets a pass because it's a Honda. I bet if the Aztek was a Toyota, it would be praised as an automotive tour de force?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, Hyundai pulled it off. I remember when a Hyundai was the next worst thing to a Yugo.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Well, Hyundai pulled it off. I remember when a Hyundai was the next worst thing to a Yugo.

    Hyundai's recent turnaround efforts have been much more impressive than GM's. Hyundai is a good example for GM to follow. Problem is that GM always follows. When they lead they get things like the Aztek and the Volt!
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I always thought the Aztek was way more ugly than an Element - more actively ugly where the Element is more passively so.

    I don't think anyone gave Honda a pass on the Element. In fact I wouldn't want to use "pass" and Element" in the same sentence. Kind of reminds me that I have to stay behind one because then I only see one side where if I pass it eventually I have to see three.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >I don't think anyone gave Honda a pass on the Element.

    I feel they do. After all, ... pause..., it's a ... Honda (inhale sound).

    If the Element were to have been from Buick, or Chevy, it would have been panned. Dumb. Only a 4-cylinder. Based on a little Civic. Oh, my. (Gasp)
    Only a five-speed transmission; must have 6 to be up-to-date. Dark ages.
    End comments if it were a GM product.

    The reality is that this kind of double standard has continued for whatever reason. People excused it based on their having had a 1989 Suburban that had a water pump go out--and worse. So the cars now must be JANG. That's what GM has to take on right away.

    They have to point out the double standard despite the product's having improved. They have to point out the problematic other vehicles, including Honda with their continuing transmission failure saga and now VCA. Then say that we made mistakes to keep our higher costs down and we've turned a severe corner with the new GM. Our vehicles form 200x to 2009 were much better built. Even consumer reports admits that through the years the difference between their blessed circle ratings have shrunk because the cars that were troublesome have improved, and in some cases the cars with great reputations have deteriorated some.

    They are going to have to use the media. Putting ads on Edmunds and Car & Driver ain't gonna work. And when a bad report comes out they have to address it head on to negate it just like Toyota has done with their sludge (of course toyo delayed a while). That's the change GM has to make to counteract the fun of people putting down every GM product as junk because they had a 1991 Vega that did something or they just thing it's fun to do so because they like their Accord and have never compared with a similar car in its class because they just go back to the dealer and buy a new one every couple years--or insert your favorite example there.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Actually the Aztek has been ridiculed only because it's GM.

    Once again, the GM inferiority complex kicks in. "The world thinks it's ugly just because it's a GM!" The world thinks it's ugly because....wait for it....IT'S UGLY!! :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    >I don't think anyone gave Honda a pass on the Element.

    We disagree.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Ask yourself why GM is doing none of these things. Answer: because their cars really DON'T measure up. Until they get the Cruze un-delayed, the only mainstream competitive car they have is the Malibu, and it's in the process of getting blown away by the new Fusion (at least ONE American car company knows what it's doing). Cobalt stinks, Aveo is at the bottom of it's class, Equinox doesn't hold up vs CR-V, RAV-4, Rogue, or Escape. Impala is so much of a joke that Chrysler's competitor is better. These are the mainstream bread-and-butter categories, and out of all of them, GM is competitive in TWO: Midsize sedan, and large SUV (Traverse is pretty good).

    Competitive in two, leading in MAYBE one (Traverse is that good, when you get down to it), and back of the pack in the rest. Not a recipe for success, especially for a company that needs huge amounts of sales just to keep up with their costs.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    You're kidding, right??

    image

    image

    This thin HURTS!! :lemon:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    OK, but would you finally start making unique concepts and forget about clones?

    GM to unveil smaller, more efficient GMC Terrain
    Robert Snell / The Detroit News

    General Motors Corp. will unveil the 2010 GMC Terrain crossover, a smaller and more fuel-efficient model, at the 2009 New York International Auto Show on Wednesday along with the Yukon Denali hybrid.

    The new crossover is being introduced amid a slump in truck and crossover sales for GM, which is subsisting on $13.4 billion in federal aid and has asked for up to $16.6 billion more. The automaker's truck sales, which includes crossovers, were down 47 percent last month compared to a year earlier, worse than the 36.7 percent industry decline in SUV/crossover sales, according to Autodata Corp.

    The five-passenger, four-cylinder Terrain, which hits showrooms in late summer, will get a segment-leading 30 mpg on the highway and also be available with a 3.0-liter direct injection six-cylinder engine.

    The Terrain replaces the Pontiac Torrent and shares the Theta chassis with Chevrolet Equinox. Production is scheduled to start in the third or fourth quarter of 2009 at the Ingersoll, Ontario, plant.

    This will prove another nail in the coffin. Another Equinox...perfect.

    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Now compare the Aztek to a Rendezvous:

    image

    image

    I never quite understood why the Rendezvous got a pass - maybe it was the cladding on the first ones that did it?
This discussion has been closed.