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Do I need to go on?
just trying to be helpful,
L
Must say the showroom is impressive, with nice seating's and interior decor, at my local dealership. Beyond that, it is all the same. Parts is parts, is how the saying goes.
L
Isn't there a safety benefit to the high beltlines - better side impact safety? Or is it all just for style and perhaps just a feeling of safety (and maybe less safe due to less visibility)?
How about the RAV 4 V6 for compact SUV's?
All that and the average transaction price is still thousands less than Civic and Corolla. Being better than the Cav isn't a high enough bar for the Cabalt.
I, and I doubt anyone else, ever said that buyers of Toyota and Honda don't care about styling. Rather, their appearance is fine.. A OK. Not every car can be a stunner. I actually guess that the Balt is as good or as bad looking as a Civic or Coralla. It just falls well short in so many other ways.
All that and the average transaction price is still thousands less than Civic and Corolla. Being better than the Cav isn't a high enough bar for the Cabalt.
I, and I doubt anyone else, ever said that buyers of Toyota and Honda don't care about styling. Rather, their appearance is fine.. A OK. Not every car can be a stunner nor does it need to be. I actually guess that the Balt is as good or as bad looking as a Civic or Coralla. It just falls well short in so many other ways. That's why I see it on sale for $10,995.
But back to what I was saying, in looking at the Lumina 4-dr going to the wayside & the Impala coming on, it was really a rename, especially on the 2-dr. When myself and co-workers got the first looks at the design freeze (I want to say early 1998, I think I typed 1997 in my earlier posting in error) we made a big stink about the rear tail lights (only 2 per side instead of the requisite 3, an Impala trademark) and other things. And seeing as I was rebuilding the '66 SS at the time and pops had previously owned a '65, '74, and an '80, we on the home-front were a little upset as well. Also look at the green-house, switchgear, seats and seating position, layout...c'mon, the GM-10 / W-Body only allowed so much. Do I really need to go on?
And I'd never forget going to the Auto Show in January 1999, and most everyone that was at the Chevrolet section hated that car, with the majority of us stating "It's a rebadged Lumina!" We all wanted the '96 Impala back, or hoped they rushed the Nomad concept into production. And this, my friend, was not from industry insiders, but the buying public, young and old.
Again, just changing the front and/or rear clip or doing a rename does not a total redesign make, not when the BIW is the same, a-la badge-engineering. Which is what you seem to have problems with. Hate to bring up an old topic, but when the dreaded "badge-engineering" comes up and what makes something badge-engineered you'll come up with this, that and the other stating it's not, when in fact it is. Then the topic goes back and forth, forth and back on what qualifies as B.E. and what you say does not qualify B.E., when you feel GM hit their marks when in fact they did not...on and on and on. :sick:
I think we've beat this and the Cavalier/Cobalt to death, you want to move on or keep rehashing? See you tomorrow, I have to check outside for storm damage...
L
your enclave of knowledge source,
L
Let's just hope it doesn't turn into the car you knew America would build. :sick:
Maybe it's too flat?
The interior looks nice. The big question is how will the base model interior look? Certainly it's way better than the current model wich is completely homely.
As for the front end, I think that they need to tone down the air dam, so that it doesn't look like a third grille. But they should also move that upper grille down a bit. Stuck up high on the front of the car like that, it makes me think of the upper grille on a '61 DeSoto!
Still, the car does look like it has potential. One thing that bothers me about the one interior shot I've seen, though, is that it looks like it has small-car seats. Could just be the camera angle distorting it, though.
As for the current Malibu, maybe I'm being too kind, but its interior really doesn't bother me. It's not the most attractive, but I didn't think it was too bad. Big step up from the '97-03. And sadly, I still remember the Corsica! :sick:
L
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For awhile, I remember thinking that the Lucerne's rump reminded me a bit of a '95 Cavalier, but yeah, I see a bit of '98 Corolla there, too.
I don't know how to reason with you if you find this to be the case.
All that and the average transaction price is still thousands less than Civic and Corolla. Being better than the Cav isn't a high enough bar for the Cabalt.
Is it a jewel or a rock? Jewels sell for more than rocks.
Of course some people think the Balt is as nice as an Accord.
Throw that Balt in the lapidary tumbler!
Speaking of Alante's, I wonder how those held up compared to the Mercedes. With FWD, was it ever really considered a contender though to the SL ? I did Mercedes came up with a modern look soon after the Caddy Allante.
I asked the saleman about the HP not being higher, and he said they kept it lower so the transmission would not blow. Interesting.
Loren
I see the bigger problem being that in five years, SS might mean something totally different....again. If Chevy just sticks with SS = "sportiest version of this car that we make" and Pontiac likewise with GXP, it will be understood what those labels mean. Instead, we get SS, or RS, or Eurosport, or ES, etc. Honda is fairly consistent with trim level designations...DX, LX, EX, (and Si for the Civic); it's been that way for a long time. Not so with GM. Pontiac had SE, GT....then GT, GTP....now GT and GXP...no consistancy at all. No one knows what the hell they're looking at from year to year. Just pick something and stick with it!!!
There was no need for GM to distance the Cobalt from the Cav because the Cav was a terrific car loved by consumers and the automotive press. The Cav always sold primarily to individual buyers on it's merits not just because it was cheap, so much so that there were few left to be sold to rntal agencies.
or
The Cobalt is outselling the Civic and Corolla because it's a pace setting design. GM's designer really went all out to think outside the box and when they come up with a less refined car in favor of more HP, they read the compact car market perfectily. An usable backseat even in the 4 door and 17 inch rims just complete the value proposition for small car buyers.
The GM loyalists can just pick one and we'll move on
Hey, watch that remark...you've seen me in one of those wretched little things TWICE now! :P
Actually, I'd imagine that there are a lot of people who do care about cars, AND are pretty well-loaded, but just don't want to spend a lot of money on one. In my uncle's case, he has a commute that's up to 130 miles round trip, depending on where his company sends him. He has a '97 Silverado, but once it started getting up in miles, he bought his '03 Corolla as kind of a "sacrificial lamb", to run into the ground, and keep the miles off his truck.
I think the Corolla has about 143,000 miles on it now, whereas the truck has around 110,000. So if he'd kept on driving that truck, it would have about 253,000 on it now, presuming it was still running.
One thing I thought was amusing though, is that even my uncle gets sick of the Corolla after awhile, and does prefer the comfort of his truck. I thought that was actually a bit odd. Now in my case, I'm 6'3", and when I squeeze into that Corolla, it makes me think of those women that would come into Al Bundy's shoe store and try to squeeze into shoes 3 sizes too small. It has an odd position that would almost favor someone with really long arms and short legs. Which is actually my uncle's build. I figured he'd fit in the thing perfectly. But I guess the truck's seat is still higher off the floor, and you don't sit right up against the side of the door in the truck, like you do with the Corolla. I've found that when I drive the Corolla, I actually have to lean inward a bit, because the B-pillar is so close! Might just be a big car/small car preference, though.
I'd estimate with my uncle's driving habits, mostly highway, that Corolla has saved him about 4,000 gallons of gas in those 143,000 miles. I figured 18 mpg for the truck, 36 for the Corolla. It was probably worth it for him.
In my case though, I figure if I had that Corolla instead of my Intrepid, it would've saved about 1900 gallons over the 135,000 miles it's gone. In this case, with my more local, stop-and-go driving with occasional trips, I'd estimatte a lifetime average of 23 with the Intrepid and guessing maybe 34 with the Corolla? Considering that I'm not comfortable at all in the car for more than a few minutes (those trips I took to PA in it were a real learning experience!), the comfort trade-off might not be worth the fuel savings. But then, you never know. These days, it's rare that I'm driving a car for more than 20-30 minutes at a time. And to be honest, I don't think my Intrepid is the best long-distance car, either. It's not THAT generous in legroom, the dead pedal is in an awkward location, and the floorpan is at a slight angle. Where the Corolla is what I call a "10 minute car", I'd say my Intrepid is maybe a "45 minute car".
I agree. You will not catch me in a little car for more than an errand buggy. I would not go on the freeway with any of the little cars being sold today. There are TOO many big heavy vehicles to contend with. I felt small in our Passat wagon on the highway. It would be a minimum size. The LS400 is barely big enough. Prefer PU or SUV for safety. IIHS statistics agree with you and I.
Little cars especially the Yaris, Metro & Fit size should not be allowed access to high speed highways.
When gasoline prices were climbing, I was thinking about getting a little hooptie like an Aveo or Cobalt, but the price of the car would wipe out any money I'd save on fuel.
Now, a 1974-like fuel shortage would be another matter.
Just make sure when you try to avoid an accident (which I am sure will happen a lot more than you're in an actual accident), your suv or pu didn't get to rollover, ESPECIALLY on the highway.
Little cars especially the Yaris, Metro & Fit size should not be allowed access to high speed highways.
Hey, if your pu or suv takes that much more longer to brake, that much more easier to roll, and that much more difficult to manuever, I think it should be the other way around.
We have done the whole "buying a car to save $ for gas" thing and the calculations never work out in favor of buying a new car for the gas savings. Unless you were going from a M1A1 tank to a Prius. If you are getting a new car anyway, then looking at gas savings makes sense.
I just can't see how zipping around in a small car is LESS mentally debilitating than driving a land-yahat. I used to have an old S-series saturn and I now have an Outlook. The Outlook is better in every respect (except gas) than the old S. But, the S was still way more fun to drive around in. I could zip around traffic and into tight spots that the Outlook could only dream of.
Well, my 1985 pickup has been whacked three times in the past year. First by a 2000 Infiniti I30, second by a 2003 or so Hyundai Elantra, and third by a hit-and-run in a parking lot somewhere (rear bumper got bent up slightly and I didn't even notice it for a couple days).
Yeah, these little cars might be more nimble and could possibly brake quicker, but somehow many of their drivers missed the memo! :P
As for rolling over, now SUV's might be a different story because you do have a lot of bulk up high, but with pickup trucks, I don't think the center of gravity is really all that high. Sure, you sit up high in the cab, but there really isn't all that much mass high up. Just the roof over your head and the pillars. I'm sure it's easier to roll a pickup than most cars, but I'd imagine that SUVs are still in a league all their own.
Plus, it takes considerable talent (or bad luck or stupidity) to roll a vehicle. You have to be doing something really crazy or stupid. They're not going to just flip on their backs if you look at them funny. :shades:
With traction control and stability control, my SRX should be fairly stable if I don't push it too hard. I think that it has more capability than I do, but I am not going to see. Where a lot of people get into trouble is going off one side of the road and then over correcting.
Either way, they both look worlds better than those Japanese litter boxes with covers.
Unless that Civic is a Si.
Also, I'll bet that not many people WANT a Corolla, Yaris or Cobalt, instead that's all they can afford so they are stuck with it. Not all the people are as fortunate as you due to their background, surroundings and many unknown reasons. This will really be a nicer place if we are willing to step back, put ourselves in other people's shoes and be more considerable.
Also, by the way, for many people driving is not an enjoyment, they merely just trying to get from A to B. In that case, a Civic, Corolla or Cobalt serve them well.
Has nothing to do with me being "poor" or not being a car enthusiast, I, like others just prefer smaller cars.
I'll take that Japanese litter boxes with covers called Honda Civic Si over any domestic compacts.
At least a new Civic or Corolla comes with bumper to bumper and powertrain warranties. What does a 3-year-old Buick come with? A bigarse land yacht gas guzzler. I would dump my girlfriend on the spot if she ever suggests to get a Buick. Luckily she knows better than that. :P
Lemko, yes I know your girl is happy with the LaCrosse and the Toyota dealer scare the *beep* out of her. There, saved you a post didn't I?