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Comments
Would you get earrings too? The showgirl would be the best part. Make sure you have pre-nups. But, don't tell her ahead of time that you like Buicks.
Too bad that we would never find all that out from you because you would leave it in Vegas.
Doesn't say much about the new LaCrosse!
Heh. I never said it wasn't anything more than a nice reliable commuter-box. That's GM's other half of the problem. It isn't build quality. Their styling stinks and their cars are all without any real soul. It's not as bad as Chrysler was in the 80s, but wow - who hires those morons in the design departments?
"Hey - let's copy parts from four other cars!" doesn't work. Neither does copying some ancient car. I mean - if Mazda can make hot looking cars with a small fraction of GMs budget, GM certainly can do better. GM probably spends more on advertizing alone than Mazda's entire income.
But to be fair, is a current Maxima or Camry even up to early 90's Camry/Maxima standards? :P I think the '92-96 Camry was almost TOO upscale for a Camry! And the Japanese in general hadn't learned to embrace hard plastic so much back then.
Our 70 year old neighbor got a new Mercedes. His much younger wife kept saying he was an old foggy for getting the Merc, and he should have got a BMW!
I don't know what she would have said if he got the Buick!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I realize Buick doesn't conjure up much excitement, but in looking back, I wonder what people in the car review field disliked about the LeSabre. Was looking at one the other day, and it looked pretty good to me. I guess the Lucerne is OK, yet the backend looks like an afterthought. While it looked good on my Corolla and be for that the Camry, I don't understand why it is on the Lucerne? The look is OK in itself, but I am not so sure it belongs on the tail of this car. Looks to me like an Olds. Aurora had more presence on the road. Overall, Lucerne is a decent effort. Likewise the LaCrosse design, while not an in-your-face style, does what it is suppose to do - graceful flowing lines, looks like a classy Buick. If Buick wants to appeal to the younger buyer, both of these designs lack in that they are not radical enough. Not so sure they look like money too. Ever look at a car and say, that one looks like it would be expensive? Better than looking at a GM car and thinking, I wonder if those people are on vacation, as in it must be a rental car.
-Loren
My only real experience in recent times with a LeSabre comes from test driving a used 2000 model. This was around 2002 I think. Personally I didn't care for it, but most of its problems could have been easily remedied. For one thing, this was a base "Custom" model. I think the Limited might have had a better suspension. This Custom had wheels and tires on it that by this time were really under-sized. The rim was a 15x6, and I think the tire was a 215/70/R15.
I don't know what really was the "norm" by then, but my Intrepid has 16x7 wheels, and 225/60/R16 tires. And 7-inch wide rims had been common on Mopars for decades. My '79 Newport had them, although they weren't standard; it was a factory option.
Anyway, a bigger, wider wheel would have definitely helped in handling, and a lower-profile tire would have helped, too. Also, I imagine that this car was simply DESIGNED to isolate the driver from the road, and be a bit numb and wallowy, simply because that's what the Buick people thought a Buick buyer would want. The technology was certainly there to make these things handle better and give better road feel.
Otherwise, I just didn't care for some of the interior materials, which just seemed like they were getting a bit too plasticky.
FWIW, C&D tested an '00 LeSabre Limited back in 1999. They put it up against an '00 Concorde LX, which really wasn't a fair comparison, as the Concorde was stuck with a tiny 2.7. They admitted this though, and said that, based on their previous driving experience with the Intrepid/Concorde 3.2, that the 3.8 would still have been quicker. Anyway, the 3.8 LeSabre did 0-60 in about 8.0 seconds, and I think it went through the slalom a bit quicker than the Concorde, as well. At the time they were actually raving about what a good car the LeSabre was.
But then a few months later, the all-new Avalon came out, and they pitted it against a LeSabre and the headline read something like "Toyota Out-Buick's Buick!"
I'd always thought that if you could've taken an '00 LeSabre and mated it with an '00 Avalon interior, you'd have one helluva fine automobile!
Strange thing about the Lucerne...for some reason I actually LIKE the rear of it! :confuse: Atthis angle, for example. I guess I just like the way the C-pillar comes down to the quarter panel, and the car has kind of a long, low look to me.
In all fairness, I asked a neighbor how his 1988 gigantic Chevy wagon was doing. He said it is built like a tank, 100,000 miles and no problems. His 5 year old Malibu has had some expensive gasket problems.
Maybe GM made those 80's so good no one needs a new one for 20 years.
I have to agree with you completely about the GM line-up.
Nuttin exciting, except the Opti-Saturn! What hope does that have.
The top seller Impala hasn't changed in about 10 years. Back is to the wall, ninth inning, 2 men out...and this is the best effort they could come up with?
I have to really think world sales will make or break GM. The U.S. must be a way to break the union and get concessions, without plowing any more money in.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Come to think of it, I haven't seen her for about 2 weeks!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I could think of a lot more vehicles I'd rather lay $38,000 down for. Audi, Acura, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, or 2 Azeras to name a few!!!!!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
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Looks more like a miniature 57 Buick?
This one looks like a squished up Mustang;
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2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
In this picture it does look pretty good. I have seen them on the road though and that rear end seems to go on and on.
I guess if you lie down on the sidewalk when you see one coming, and get that 45 degree angle from the ground, it will be a great looking car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I share those exact sentiments, driver. Old people have to drive something! IMO, the LaCross is a small improvement over the Regal, Century - but the Lucerne does not top the Park Avenue, or even the LESabre IMO. And what IS up with that back end?? Looks like they ran out of money after the C-pillar and couldn't afford to design a rear end....
The Cadillac CTS better have gadgetology and be priced fairly, have a nice comfy interior, otherwise I'm going to bail. They make cars like the G6, that are decent, but for some reason refuse to build vehicles like the G8 or Velite. :confuse: It will be dissapointing if the CTS isn't competitive, and the G8 get's put on the back burner, while the Torrent is still being produced. :confuse: That along with the Equinox are the biggest jokes to run off a GM assembly line. :mad:
Rocky
Rocky
I definitely like yours more. IMO that roof line would look good with 4 doors which should be allowed with a new GTO since 4 doors are so popular.
It is really nice looking....I'd like to see some head lights personally....if done right they look better than hidden lights.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Rocky
Not a case of refuse, it's a matter of GM not having the funds to develop these cars. The Torrent is cheap to develop since it's just a rebadged Equinox.
I'm tired of the money issue as a excuse. GM still has Multi-Billions in the cash coffers, and the only way to make money is to invest it in R&D. The G8 anyways was going to be a rebadged Holden Commadore with an american interior and exterior.
The Velite would be costly, but if you want to save the brand you can't keep delivering cars like the Lucerne and LaCrosse the way they are and expect everyone to buy them up. :mad:
Rocky
That was good, Rocky. Maybe it's time that you were promoted to the management team.
The basic strategy should be: Build a few incredible, distinct and interesting cars in popular segments in order to win back buyers, put a lot of marketing muscle behind the nameplates of these cars in order to get maximum brand mileage out of those great products, and use these to create new demand for GM products across the rest of the line.
Why don't they just do this? Surely the largest automaker in the world could make a killer sedan, a great small car, a class-defining crossover and a couple of other popular models that could accomplish this? (Personally, I would bring back the El Camino or something similar by modifying the Holden Commodore "ute" for the North American market. Absolutely no competition in this class, and it would be more fuel efficient and more car-like than the trucks currently on the market.)
It's not as if they haven't been able to build good small cars and smaller engines in other markets, so I see no excuse other than incompetence at the top of GMNA. Maybe we should be hiring the Europeans and Aussies to run the company?
I'll take you with me and surely we could get these cars built right ?
Well MY GAWD Socala, we always get the standard excuse of no money. Well if you don't risk any then how is one going to get a return ?????? " You got to invest a little to get alot" and rebading a Cobalt isn't going to cut it :mad:
Just like we were talking over in the Acura forum. You have to start out with a desirable product that consumers want, before you can reskin it.
Wouldn't this type of logic raise red flags ? Acura can reskin a Honda Accord because it's a desirable product to begin with. They can enhance the interior and exterior to create a truely desirable product in Acura TL trim which is a high volume car for that very competitive segment.
Rocky
Cadillac: LaSalle (formally Lucerne), CTS sedan and coupe, Deville base and performance DTS (RWD and yes with a name,and performance like a STS), Eldorado Coupe (smaller size, with 3.6V6 and V8), Escalade (for Cadillac cowboys, and rappers, and richer soccer Moms),
Chevy: Nova (RWD, mid size in i4 and 3.6V6), Camaro (off the Nova chassis, 3.6 V6 engine, DoD V8), Impala (FWD), Malibu SS or MonteCarlo SS (large, RWD, V8 only, NASCAR entry), Corvette (3.6 V6 and V8)
GMC: all trucks,vans and SUVs / crossovers
Pontiac & Buick meet retirement
Saab- sell it!
Saturn: Opel small cars, and sports cars from Germany.
Need a hatchback with high gas mileage, a small sedan.
Aura, and upscale coupe version.
-Loren :shades:
Not a bad idea Loren. I don't like the Sell Saab idea though. What happens to Hummer ? :surprise:
Rocky
"Got to tease ya a little" :P
Not a bad plan. I think GM doesn't have the money in the coffers to pay off the Pontiac/Buick franchisees. It cost a bundle to close down Oldsmobile. Cheaper to just keep giving them crapier cars each year so they eventually go out of business naturally.
Be sure to try to take a kid, son, daughter, grandchild and see the movie "cars". There are some great looking cars in the movie (maybe Pixar should be designing GM cars), and it just gives you a refreshing perspective on life...the animation is incredible!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
True, they need Saab for a European presence and to develop and get something going in a Euro car.
Hummer they need for military use, but I just read where they are so top heavy they roll over too easily...you would think their engineers would take that into account!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Loren
Rocky
-Loren
Why-Oh-Why do Buick/Pontiac/GMC get both the Buick Enclave and GMC Arcadia, and nothing for Chevy to compete with Ford Edge/Freestyle? Chevy has no midsize SUV but the aging Trailblazer which won't be redesigned any time soon.
First of all outlook/enclave/acadia are not edge/freestyle competitors. They are much bigger.
Chevy has enough models in its lineup. Its time for others in GM lineup who have been neglected to get some. While we are on topic of chevy, whats with the new silverado's design. Now will all the chevy guys who dont like 08 redesign cross over to blue oval?
Hi jjaxon, unfortunately you have a lot of pent up anger there. I don't know how you came to these conclusions but I would really like to know;
1)japanese car buyer.. you know .. the japanese works wonders and sh..t cucumbers
I have never owned a Japanese car ever! New cars have been, 73 Maverick, 76 Plymouth, 78 Malibu, 79 Cutlass, 81 Cutlass, 84 Celebrity, 86 Cierra, 89 Corsica, 92 Cavalier, 95 Jeep, 2000 Jeep and a 2004 ?????? (Euro-car). For the record, my wife has not had a Japanese car, an MG, a few Volvos and a current ?????(Euro-car)
2) he knows he does a lousy job so he thinks every american does...
Never had a complaint about my work. I was down sized 3 times in the last 4 years when I had a job, making an average salary. No one would hire me at age 46 so I started my own company 11 years ago. In the last 3 years we have had sales of over $1,000,000's and we sell our product to about 400 stores across the country. I am proud to say we hire good people and pay them well because they are valuable.
I have no idea what you are referring to in your comments. The Post you are replying to said that Camry buyers probably wouldn't move up to Avalons, and that Toyota had great marketing strategies. I have had a lot of GM cars as well as Fords and a few Chryslers and I liked them a lot at the time. Would have bought another Jeep but I was curious to try a ??????? (and I tried a Japanese make)and when I did there was no going back...it is a totally different driving experience.
Now if you work for GM and I offended you then IMO the union workers are making a big mistake by demanding more money and concessions and will eliminate their own jobs. If $1500 of each GM car goes to pay for health benefits, that is $1,500 of content that can go into a Toyota.
I have no axe to grind with GM or any car company, I have enjoyed all my cars. I have a lot of respect for the Japanese companies because they have really brought a lot of refinement to the industry...they have made all the car companies try to be better!
So, let me know how you came to those conclusions.
* Note-Driver200(at work) is Driver100 (at home)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think when people get upset is when they use a name for something that doesn't live up to the previous vehicle. I remember people whining about that when the GTO came out, although I personally don't understand why.
Another possibility for recycling model names: none, Special, Deluxe, Super Deluxe. (Check out dictionary on deluxe)
How does Lucerne Deluxe sound. A French flair? Or (Pontiac) LeMans Special rather than G6 GTP.
Think that some new model names from GM (Aura?) might be coming from some type of "New Age" committee.
-Loren
Rocky
so are you saying the Ford Explorer does not compete with Jeep grand Cherokee because it's much bigger? Just checking.
The Japanese competed on quality which changed the game, but too much of anything is bad, and at this point due to our "free market" reliance the Japanese companies have a better business environment than our own boys. This is wrong, and although much of it is GM's fault for buckling under union pressure and Fords fault for horrible management, something needs to be done to help these businesses.
There needs to be something. The current "anything goes mentality" will really wind up having everything go... including our jobs and national security.
The Japanese understand this all too well, as soon as GM liquidated its stake in Suzuki, they stopped selling Chevy’s in Japan. As soon as they had the chance they did. I could go on and on about how they engage in currency manipulation which results in artificial tariffs for our exports that the WTO is too *$^%$&* to recognize, but in truth, there is more.
If we at home give tax breaks for people buying a Nissan truck for business or a Toyota prius for the environment, then we are giving people an incentive to buy foreign.
These breaks should be for our companies alone. Excluding Chrysler which is now German. These are other nuances which really "Grind my Gears" (anyone here watch Family Guy?) and these are just one of them.
Most people don’t care about any of that, all they care about is how good is the car, and that’s fine, which is why we need a govt to protect us from ourselves. The Japanese do this, they know if they allowed imports than Japanese would buy foreign products, but they do everything they can to stop it. Americans have been more deserving by having the option to and not choosing a foreign product. This is one of the reasons we are so special in the world, we have principles.
But these principles have started to fade with the MTV generation (I am in my early 20's) and this is an issue bigger than cars. The government failed to protect our clothing, plastic, toy and other industries, for the love of G-D they must do something to protect autos. Now we have close to a billion dollar trade deficit with China and are more and more dependant on them to buy our debt and essentially stem the blood flow of losses our govt. has every year. If we still had these industries, we would be a more independent nation, and our world view would not be influenced as much by the rise of the east.
One way or another we all benefit from these industries, even if we do not work at the plants ourselves.
This has all been said before sorry and thanks for letting me rant again
Have to agree here, Rocky. I drove a Vue a couple of years ago, and while comfortable, I thought it was quirky. I've been told the Equinox is better, haven't driven one, but that Torrent has to go.... Hate the name too. When is Buick and Cadillac and Saab going to get their versions of the Saturn Vue? I even have names for them. The Buick Recovery, the Cadillac SUX, and the Saab 6.-6.